What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?

[Voodoochild]

I agree for the most part but most albums usually have a single that draws you in to give the album a listen. OK Computer had Paranoid Android. After hearing that song I was curious to listen to the rest of the album. I dont think CD had that great single that draws you in. I like the album and its a shame.

I don't agree. In my previous job, I showed the album to a lot of people and they were pretty much amazed about Better. Than, after a couple of listenings, they each went to other songs (most to Prostitute and If The World, some to Riad).

Better is catchy enough even if it doesn't have much in common to the old band instrumentals.

But dont call people who dont appreciate it narrow minded people.

I didn't. I was talking about music in general.

People who get their music by singles are indeed narrow minded because they want easy and catchy songs with repetitive chorus and whatever fits in pop music. I love pop music, but I think people who stay in this safe area (which is pretty much a lot of what plays on radio) are indeed narrow minded.

People either like or dislike music. Just like genres some people like classical some people like Rock. Its just what there into. I can see why some old gnr fans wouldnt like the album. Its not because they are not suffistocated or narrowminded. Its because the new album is a complete different genre as the old ones. Its not the bluesy rock that made most GNR fans fall in love with them in the first place. In essence its a prog rock album.

It is? Seems to me that it's your opinion.

Not prog rock at all, as Dream Theater and Rush both are way too far from what Chinese is. Not bluesy? I wouldn't say this from what I can hear in Catcher, This I Love, SOD... People who just listen to it with open mind don't care if it sounds different as long as it sounds good.

I do think that the prejudice - "oh, Slash/Duff isn't on it and that sucks" - makes people dislike it - most of the times they don't even care to listen close enough.

[jarmo]

I do think that the prejudice - "oh, Slash/Duff isn't on it and that sucks" - makes people dislike it - most of the times they don't even care to listen close enough.

Yeah, "it's not the old band so it can't be any good".

Judging something for what it's not.




/jarmo

[peter7411226]

I agree for the most part but most albums usually have a single that draws you in to give the album a listen. OK Computer had Paranoid Android. After hearing that song I was curious to listen to the rest of the album. I dont think CD had that great single that draws you in. I like the album and its a shame.

I don't agree. In my previous job, I showed the album to a lot of people and they were pretty much amazed about Better. Than, after a couple of listenings, they each went to other songs (most to Prostitute and If The World, some to Riad).

Better is catchy enough even if it doesn't have much in common to the old band instrumentals.

But dont call people who dont appreciate it narrow minded people.

I didn't. I was talking about music in general.

People who get their music by singles are indeed narrow minded because they want easy and catchy songs with repetitive chorus and whatever fits in pop music. I love pop music, but I think people who stay in this safe area (which is pretty much a lot of what plays on radio) are indeed narrow minded.

People either like or dislike music. Just like genres some people like classical some people like Rock. Its just what there into. I can see why some old gnr fans wouldnt like the album. Its not because they are not suffistocated or narrowminded. Its because the new album is a complete different genre as the old ones. Its not the bluesy rock that made most GNR fans fall in love with them in the first place. In essence its a prog rock album.

It is? Seems to me that it's your opinion.

Not prog rock at all, as Dream Theater and Rush both are way too far from what Chinese is. Not bluesy? I wouldn't say this from what I can hear in Catcher, This I Love, SOD... People who just listen to it with open mind don't care if it sounds different as long as it sounds good.

I do think that the prejudice - "oh, Slash/Duff isn't on it and that sucks" - makes people dislike it - most of the times they don't even care to listen close enough.

Regarding singles...they are put out there for the non fans to notice. What makes you buy an album by a new band? Word of mouth or do you just buy albums randomly? Singles usually get me interested in listening to full albums. Like I said before when I first heard paranoid android it got me interested in hearing the rest of radioheads work. Also ...do you really think that Catcher, TIL and SOD are bluesy?

[Limulus]

or more like "it's not the old band so i dont care!"

coming back after all these years with the same band name but a total different line-up is not something everyone has to like.
it's people's decision to listen or not, to like it or not.

[peter7411226]

I do think that the prejudice - "oh, Slash/Duff isn't on it and that sucks" - makes people dislike it - most of the times they don't even care to listen close enough.

Yeah, "it's not the old band so it can't be any good".

Judging something for what it's not.




/jarmo

See but im not even sure its a slash/duff issue. The album doesnt sound like the old band. Im not saying if its a good or bad thing. Im just saying that based on that I can see why some people wouldnt like it. And its not even about narrow minded or close mindedness. Either you like a certain type of music or you dont. The new music doesnt sound like the old band.

[jarmo]

Many artists don't sound the same they did 20 years earlier.


But considering some fans started hating certain metal bands based on the haircuts of the bands, nothing surprises me. 




/jarmo

[Limulus]

but many artists frequently did release new studio albums within 20 years.....

[Voodoochild]

Regarding singles...they are put out there for the non fans to notice. What makes you buy an album by a new band? Word of mouth or do you just buy albums randomly?

Nowadays, I rather listen to it online before buy an album. I wouldn't buy an album for only one song.

Still, I think Better would fit in this model.

Also ...do you really think that Catcher, TIL and SOD are bluesy?

I'm talking more about the solos, but in general, yes.

coming back after all these years with the same band name but a total different line-up is not something everyone has to like.
it's people's decision to listen or not, to like it or not.

Ok, but I still would rather judge the music by what it is than by the name. I think its totally laughable how some people who never were fans before still get so upset about Slash's absense (let's face it, general public don't care about the others). Its like its ofensive or something.

Either you like a certain type of music or you dont. The new music doesnt sound like the old band.

Estranged and November Rain didn't sound like Anything Goes and Nightrain. Why people would be so attached about what the band should sound?

Taking Radiohead, you wouldn't think they could had such a good reaction about any albums after Ok Computer or even after The Bends. Still, as much as there were people complaining, the band took a totally different approach to the sound. Why should be that different with Guns N' Roses if they never really stayed the same at all?

but many artists frequently did release new studio albums within 20 years.....

So you're saying they should follow a pattern and keep the same sound as before just to please others? Wouldn't that be like whoring themselves?

[jarmo]

but many artists frequently did release new studio albums within 20 years.....

What does that have to do with anything?

U2 went for The Joshua Tree to Achtung Baby in about four years. You think their fans expected it because they kept releasing albums?

Zooropa to Pop was about the same, four years. None of the last three mentioned albums sound like Boy era U2.

If U2 can change their sound in four years, why would anybody expect GN'R to sound the same they did in 1987 more than twenty years later? 




/jarmo

[LunsJail]

or more like "it's not the old band so i dont care!"

coming back after all these years with the same band name but a total different line-up is not something everyone has to like.
it's people's decision to listen or not, to like it or not.

Exactly! And the minute you slap the name Guns N Roses on something you're just asking for those comparisons. People shouldn't act like that's not fair.

[peter7411226]

Regarding singles...they are put out there for the non fans to notice. What makes you buy an album by a new band? Word of mouth or do you just buy albums randomly?

Nowadays, I rather listen to it online before buy an album. I wouldn't buy an album for only one song.

Still, I think Better would fit in this model.

Also ...do you really think that Catcher, TIL and SOD are bluesy?

I'm talking more about the solos, but in general, yes.

coming back after all these years with the same band name but a total different line-up is not something everyone has to like.
it's people's decision to listen or not, to like it or not.

Ok, but I still would rather judge the music by what it is than by the name. I think its totally laughable how some people who never were fans before still get so upset about Slash's absense (let's face it, general public don't care about the others). Its like its ofensive or something.

Either you like a certain type of music or you dont. The new music doesnt sound like the old band.

Estranged and November Rain didn't sound like Anything Goes and Nightrain. Why people would be so attached about what the band should sound?

Taking Radiohead, you wouldn't think they could had such a good reaction about any albums after Ok Computer or even after The Bends. Still, as much as there were people complaining, the band took a totally different approach to the sound. Why should be that different with Guns N' Roses if they never really stayed the same at all?

but many artists frequently did release new studio albums within 20 years.....

So you're saying they should follow a pattern and keep the same sound as before just to please others? Wouldn't that be like whoring themselves?

Regarding Estranged and November Rain not sounding like AFD songs: They still sound like they are being played by the same band. They sound like a band thats trying new things...expanding there sound... growing...but you can still tell its them. Same goes for Radiohead....Im sure they alieneated many fans with Kid A etc...but ultimately it still sounds like the same band. This for the exception of Axl is a different band altogether. So its not like there sound evolved. Maybe Axl's did but the whole band is different so its not a band evolution.

[fear the juggalo 2]

people fear change. its easy to stay the same. it's like getting a better job offer, theres alot of people that pass because they are scared of change. if guns would have made another rock'n'roll album, thats exactly what it would have been, just another album. the beauty of bands like radiohead, u2, guns, they are willing to take chances with no compromise. ( thats why i compared cd to pauls boutique by the beastie boys). music taste is in the eye of the beholder. just because someone doesnt like something doesnt mean it isnt any good. chinese democracy will get its dues over time. as time goes by, so does the fear. til then, just sit back & enjoy what others let pass by.

[ppbebe]

"Boy era was better than current u2! they sold out with with or without you! "

would love to see any u2 fan still saying this after 2 decades...

the early days Beatles and the latter beatles sound like two different bands. if you call that an evolution then you should call this an evolution as well.
Or a revolution if you prefer.

[peter7411226]

"Boy era was better than current u2! they sold out with with or without you! "

would love to see any u2 fan still saying this after 2 decades...

the early days Beatles and the latter beatles sound like two different bands. if you call that an evolution then you should call this an evolution as well.
Or a revolution if you prefer.

Not the same.....the Beatles as a group of four evolved. GNR (for the exception of Axl) are a different band altogether. So they never evolved. You can say they evolved from AFD to Use your Illusions because for the exception of 1 member it was pretty much the same band.

[ppbebe]

take it as a line up evolution.

so you are saying when people don't like it or listen to it, it's because of the line-up changes?

the prejudice like voodoo said.

.

coming back after all these years with the same band name but a total different line-up is not something everyone has to like.
it's people's decision to listen or not, to like it or not.

Ok, but I still would rather judge the music by what it is than by the name. I think its totally laughable how some people who never were fans before still get so upset about Slash's absense (let's face it, general public don't care about the others). Its like its ofensive or something.

In better axl screams that he 'only wanted you to see things for yourself!'.

I read that Afd didn't perform well for about a year but it debuted at #182 on the billboards.
There were people who had bought it before  it went to #1 50 weeks later, with videos on mtv,  hits of scom and pc,  and promos.

Did they even know who were in the band when they found it at their record shops? I doubt it. But they must have dug the album enough to take it home. without no major hype or prejudice, they saw what on the album for themselves.

Things are different now. GNR is well known and cd was one of the worldwide best sellers of 2008. People know too much (bs) about the band. Appreciation wise, are we like those first afd fans with cd? I hope so. I hope other people too hear the album with their own ears and hearts not through critics ears and bs.

[Limulus]

but many artists frequently did release new studio albums within 20 years.....

What does that have to do with anything?

U2 went for The Joshua Tree to Achtung Baby in about four years. You think their fans expected it because they kept releasing albums?

Zooropa to Pop was about the same, four years. None of the last three mentioned albums sound like Boy era U2.

If U2 can change their sound in four years, why would anybody expect GN'R to sound the same they did in 1987 more than twenty years later? 




/jarmo

the main point just is the fact that it took more than 18 years (1991-2008) to release ONE new full lenght studio album under the GN'R banner!
this most likely has never been the case with any other HUGE band like GN'R was in 1992! so even if some other bands like U2 change styles from album to album more than the majority of other big bands did its hard to keep track about the "evolution" of Axl's view of GN'R simply cause there hasnt been any frequent updates, any new releases (exception = OMG) but a faked live album in 1999, dvd re-releases from illusion years and a greatest hits album (2004), wanted or not, thats what came out officially many years later.....and all old band releated!
add there are other issues not being that attractive for the "normal" music fan like loosing Slash (who would want the Stones to loose Keith??) and the whole AFD line-up, a questionable VMA02 worldwide tv performance and a cancelled 02 tour going right back into hiding for 3 more years + still taking time to get the album out not before 11/2008. an album which i like some songs/song parts a lot but mostly others i cant see their potential of being just very good songs overall - doesnt matter seeing and "getting" all the work, complexity, layers and stuff.
and now there is silence again!

my main guess about the general public view of Axl's band and often still my own view on these things could be shortened down to 2 words: "what happened??"

[COMAMOTIVE]

This is why it's pointless trying to figure out what others don't get ...or why they don't like things
None of it will change the way "Sorry" sounds coming thru my speakers

[Voodoochild]

Regarding Estranged and November Rain not sounding like AFD songs: They still sound like they are being played by the same band. They sound like a band thats trying new things...expanding there sound... growing...but you can still tell its them.

No, no, no. From the first half of both songs, there's no hard-rock/blues riff going on. Estranged's guitar (one of Slash's finest moments IMHO) in the first half has nothing to do on any of AFD songs. The heavy presence of the piano along should get people wondering if it was indeed the GNR they knew.

Of course the new band sounds different. There's other guys and they would never ever try to emulate Slash or Izzy. But still, there's two things who connect most of the old stuff with the new: mindblowing guitar/piano and Axl, of course. That's why when some people heard Street Of Dreams they thought Slash got back to the band (it's true, I heard that more than a couple of times with non-fans).

We know for sure. There's some people who also knows. But there's a lot of others who don't even care if Slash is there anymore or if it's not him. If that happens, it's for a reason.

Same goes for Radiohead....Im sure they alieneated many fans with Kid A etc...but ultimately it still sounds like the same band.

Wow. Not at all. If someone listen to Anyone Can Play Guitar and then Idioteque, the best one would say it would be Tom Yorke going solo.

This for the exception of Axl is a different band altogether. So its not like there sound evolved. Maybe Axl's did but the whole band is different so its not a band evolution.

I think it's more about your conception of what GNR should be, cause to me sound did evolve and it happend because of the new members too.

[peter7411226]

take it as a line up evolution.

so you are saying when people don't like it or listen to it, it's because of the line-up changes?

the prejudice like voodoo said.

.

coming back after all these years with the same band name but a total different line-up is not something everyone has to like.
it's people's decision to listen or not, to like it or not.

Ok, but I still would rather judge the music by what it is than by the name. I think its totally laughable how some people who never were fans before still get so upset about Slash's absense (let's face it, general public don't care about the others). Its like its ofensive or something.

In better axl screams that he 'only wanted you to see things for yourself!'.

I read that Afd didn't perform well for about a year but it debuted at #182 on the billboards.
There were people who had bought it before  it went to #1 50 weeks later, with videos on mtv,  hits of scom and pc,  and promos.

Did they even know who were in the band when they found it at their record shops? I doubt it. But they must have dug the album enough to take it home. without no major hype or prejudice, they saw what on the album for themselves.

Things are different now. GNR is well known and cd was one of the worldwide best sellers of 2008. People know too much (bs) about the band. Appreciation wise, are we like those first afd fans with cd? I hope so. I hope other people too hear the album with their own ears and hearts not through critics ears and bs.

Where did I say that the lineup changes is the reason why people dont listen? I mentioned lineup changes when you tried to compare the evolution of the beatles to gnr. Not a very good comparison. Like I said the beatles were the same 4 people who evolved. GNR hasnt been. Then you tried to say the it was a lineup evololution. Now thats something completely different than a musical evolution.

[peter7411226]

Regarding Estranged and November Rain not sounding like AFD songs: They still sound like they are being played by the same band. They sound like a band thats trying new things...expanding there sound... growing...but you can still tell its them.

No, no, no. From the first half of both songs, there's no hard-rock/blues riff going on. Estranged's guitar (one of Slash's finest moments IMHO) in the first half has nothing to do on any of AFD songs. The heavy presence of the piano along should get people wondering if it was indeed the GNR they knew.

Of course the new band sounds different. There's other guys and they would never ever try to emulate Slash or Izzy. But still, there's two things who connect most of the old stuff with the new: mindblowing guitar/piano and Axl, of course. That's why when some people heard Street Of Dreams they thought Slash got back to the band (it's true, I heard that more than a couple of times with non-fans).

We know for sure. There's some people who also knows. But there's a lot of others who don't even care if Slash is there anymore or if it's not him. If that happens, it's for a reason.

Same goes for Radiohead....Im sure they alieneated many fans with Kid A etc...but ultimately it still sounds like the same band.

Wow. Not at all. If someone listen to Anyone Can Play Guitar and then Idioteque, the best one would say it would be Tom Yorke going solo.

This for the exception of Axl is a different band altogether. So its not like there sound evolved. Maybe Axl's did but the whole band is different so its not a band evolution.

I think it's more about your conception of what GNR should be, cause to me sound did evolve and it happend because of the new members too.

Its not my conception of what GNR should be its that when people say that GNR evolved its not a valid statement. If it were the same band then I would agree with you. Bands evolve. When you have different versions of that band then its different. Radiohead evolved together, the Beatles evolved together. Axl evolved. If the current lineup make another album and it sounds different than cd then we can say that they evolved.