What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?

[The Catcher]

And they have every right to be here because they are fans of GNR. This is a GNR board, not a Chinese Democracy board.

Actually this is jarmo's website, he created it, he pays for it, he is its owner, and just like anyone who runs their own website he has the right to decide what kind of people he prefers on the site and not. And it makes perfect sense to me to prefer the kind of people who embrace the band's latest work over those who don't. "They have a right to be here". That's hilarious. YOU don't even have a right to be here. It's jarmo's website, it's not a goddamn human right.

[jarmo]

But you often take it a step further and make it an old vs new thing.

In this case I made a joke about the glam metal the poster I replied to listens to.

It wasn't even related to GN'R that much...... 

There are tons of people out there who hate the Illusions and I bet they still call themselves GNR fans....or prefer the Illusions over AFD,etc....

If you hate 30 songs of the band's whole catalog, then maybe you're a fan of a special album and not the band itself?

Over a span of a bands existence they will release an album/s that a portion of the fanbase will not be happy with. That doesnt mean they hate the band, just means theyll have to listen to what they like and or wait for the next release.

Of course.

Because as we all know, some of them will never be happy!

Something will always suck.

Do I think some people get offended when they get called out on shit? Definitely.

In their personal life, absolutely...but on internet message boards...highly doubt it

If you have to go online and talk shit about a person, who said something that offended you, it has already offended you on a personal level.

Unless you are two different people online and in real life.

For most people those two are the same person.

For example. Axl says he doesn't play for the people who aren't at the shows. Person "A" has been posting about the setlists sucking on fan sites. Then logs in to post about Axl being wrong and how he/she (person "A") has every right to post his/her opinion.

When that happens, that person has already felt offended enough to react by posting (or however he/she chooses to react).


The same goes for those who get all offended by my posts "questioning them being fans".

Unless it's just a matter of getting your "online personality's" ego bruised.... But since I don't think like that, I can't relate to it.

I don't think like "this is me online" and "this is me in real life".




inlikeflynn420, another great post.






/jarmo

[norway]

I was disapointed, it's all the soft music or dramatic music.

Axl got a great voice, which you hear live, which dosen't quite shine through on CD.

My hopes was for more focus on Axl's incredible voices, more screams and a bit more heavy stuff-
-this also blends with those guitarists softening it up.

I come from being hooked onto GNR with AFD and the 90's era, then totally blown away by OMG...and Buckethead

So the album isn't really in that way, tho it is everything what Axl said it would be.

Shackler, IRS and Rhiad blows me all away-
-CD is great, like ISE but at the end he used to change his voice live, which doesn't appear on CD.

The soft parts was ok, they changed Madagascar to softer too, bohoho!
Then other songs like Better could use 'cutting of fat', imo due to the nature and feel of the song itself.

 I guess the slow songs just doesn't fit into the "pop music" genre which SCOM and NR infact do.

Yet, what Axl has done is inspiring others and putting up the amp in rock music.

There is more "outside-genre" elements blended into the music, diferent structures and dynamics.

This album will inspire a lot of other bands.

[freddiebrph]

I love every album from my favorite artists although more so than others.

For me, if someone doesn't think Prince's New CD is better than Purple Rain, are they no longer a Prince fan? Cause a lot of times that is the feeling one gets and I can understand that point of view.

Like if u prefer the old lineup somehow u are a new band hater which also isn't so.

I love CD but I still rank it below Appetite and the Illusion albums

that being said, AFD is a 10/10  UYI are 9.5/10 and CD is right around 9/10 which if u look at it, is still amazing.

I don't think it is slighting GNR by saying they don't like it as much as the other albums.

saying u hate it though....... I don't really understand that

Great post! that is the way 99% of us feel on this board. BUT, there are a few who think they know it all. If you dont feel like they do, and prefer CD over afd, than you are stuck in the past. or "not on board". On board? We have one album since 1992, no tours, no video, no singles on the radio, and most fans heard half of this NEW album over 7 years ago in "demo" form. Although most sound exactly the same as they did on my first copy. I dont know why we cant just enjoy the music and forget about all this BS. I am old enough to have seen them in the glory days and no matter how many times Jarmo or anyone else tells me that this is better than that, its never going to be for me. Just like some who prefer this new gnr over the original. Its just a matter of preference. Who cares. In the end, we are all gnr fans and i am sure we all like at least 1 song on each album, so why keep blasting each other? Prpbably becasue most fans of this band are frustrated. Some admit it, some dont. But how can you says gnr are your favorite band, than see all these other tours this summer happening, whirle we all sit in the dark about why nothing is going on. Seen cheap trick, poison and def last night, place was packed, everyone having a great time. There were fans that were 50 years old down to little kids. Would have rather seen Axl up there!

[younggunner]

Here's another way to look at this. I'm sure we all have a movie that we absolutely fucking LOVE. So you loan someone the DVD and they watch it, give it back and say "ah, it was okay", or maybe they even say "that sucked!". Of course you are going to think "what the fuck are you talking about? did you even watch the whole movie? what are you thinking?!? that movie fucking rocks!" And then of course there are some movies that aren't that great, but they make a shitload of money even though they aren't much more than some cool cgi effects and no story. and that's okay, too. those movies can be a lot of fun, for what they are. And then sometimes there are movies that are great fucking movies, real art,  AND they make a shitload of money. It's kinda nice if a movie you love becomes a hit. but it's also cool if you love a movie and it becomes a cult classic, with a maniacal, passionate following. Sometimes that's even cooler. I don't go for the idea of liking something only because it is obscure, and then god forbid it becomes popular, you can't like it anymore or you're not "cool". And i sure as fuck don't go for "liking" something just because it is popular. If you like something, fucking like it. don't worry about it someone else does or not. GnR has gone through it all, and they've been a great fucking band through each stage -- had a building following at the beginning but not instant success, became incredibly huge (while still producing quality tunes), and now after this long wait, lineup shakeups, a huge budget -- Axl has given us what has become -- judging by the feelings of a lot of people here -- the musical equivalent of a great fucking cult classic with some real fans of this music. Would it be cool if "Chinese Democracy" sold 20 million? Sure. Would it make the music any better? no.
Is it cool to be a part of the group of fans who love this album, regardless of whether or not their taste in music is vindicated by the sales of the album?

great post....

If you hate 30 songs of the band's whole catalog, then maybe you're a fan of a special album and not the band itself?

Idk, thats a tough call. But if they show up to the shows and stuff then I still would classify them as fans.

there are fans and then are hardcore fans

Of course.

Because as we all know, some of them will never be happy!

Something will always suck.

But why do you continue with that tone? You make it like some fans are ungrateful if they dont like everything a band releases. Music hits people in different ways. Evene a hardcore fan might not get or feel a particular release by their fav band. Why insinuate that they will NEVER be happy and or ungrateful...I just dont get that

For example. Axl says he doesn't play for the people who aren't at the shows. Person "A" has been posting about the setlists sucking on fan sites. Then logs in to post about Axl being wrong and how he/she (person "A") has every right to post his/her opinion.

When that happens, that person has already felt offended enough to react by posting (or however he/she chooses to react).

I could careless about the people who bitch about the set that dont go to a show.....its the people who go to the shows that have at least some grounds to speak on

The same goes for those who get all offended by my posts "questioning them being fans".

I doubt people get offended with your assessments, its more who are you to even question type thing. for me at least

I don't think like "this is me online" and "this is me in real life".

everyone, including yourself,  modify their identities/selves/me's, as they socialize in different settings

[Bodhi]

everyone, including yourself,  modify their identities/selves/me's, as they socialize in different settings

thats true..Im an even bigger asshole in real life...(you can't get banned there)

[younggunner]

thats true..Im an even bigger asshole in real life...(you can't get banned there)

lol...classic line

[fear the juggalo 2]

i'm gonna through in my 2 cents here. im gonna compare this release to another of years back. it took the beastie boys awhile to release paul's boutique. when it came out it sold poorly, i got slammed in almost every review. most people didnt like it. why though? simply because it was different. the sond was overwhelming at first. there was so much going on. it was hard to register. but the more & more you listene, the more intriguing it became. it was like hearing a different album every listen. & people finally started giving it the respect it deserved. now years later it is considered a masterpiece. i feel the same exact way about chinese democracy. albums of this magnitude are few & far between. i hear people say axl lost his edge, the attitude is not there anymore..etc..etc. as you get older, u get wiser. guns music is a open book of thoughts. i truly is the soundtrack to our lives. i commend axl for staying true to the music & never compromising his belief on what ?cd? should be. this album may not be for everyone , but it sure is for me!

[Gargh!]

I'm sure we all have a movie that we absolutely fucking LOVE. So you loan someone the DVD and they watch it, give it back and say "ah, it was okay", or maybe they even say "that sucked!". Of course you are going to think "what the fuck are you talking about? did you even watch the whole movie? what are you thinking?!? that movie fucking rocks!"

Or maybe that particular movie just didn't appeal to them.  I really don't get where all the antagonism comes from - for goodness' sake it's just a record by a band!  Some people will like it, some people won't.  Some will like it but less so than others - there doesn't have to be any underlying resentment towards Axl, any particular lack of intellegence, a sheep mentality or anything like that... I mean, come on!  We live in a world of war, gross inequality, bigotry and every manifestation of human evil and we spend our time arguing about albums by a rock band?!  It's daft.  Chill, listen to Chinese Democracy, listen to something else - why does it matter if other people like or don't like it?

[ppbebe]

because sometimes you just can't understand why some other people don't like or even hate what you love.

anyhoo it's getting apparent that those who liked the band from the get go when the band wasn't well-known, don't mind the lineup changes.

[freddiebrph]

because sometimes you just can't understand why some other people don't like or even hate what you love.

anyhoo it's getting apparent that those who liked the band from the get go when the band wasn't well-known, don't mind the lineup changes.

The line up changes really only started to occur after 1992.  That is when the core broke up.  What is accepted, is that this is what Axl wants, and we are just glad to have his voice on some new music. Although, it would be nice to see him live this year. Pre 1992, you know who the guns were going to be.

[jarmo]

If you hate 30 songs of the band's whole catalog, then maybe you're a fan of a special album and not the band itself?

Idk, thats a tough call. But if they show up to the shows and stuff then I still would classify them as fans.

there are fans and then are hardcore fans

Where is the line between being a casual rock fan and a GN'R fan?

Let's say you own Appetite For Destruction and love it. Does that alone make you a GN'R fan?

Of course.

Because as we all know, some of them will never be happy!

Something will always suck.

But why do you continue with that tone? You make it like some fans are ungrateful if they dont like everything a band releases. Music hits people in different ways. Evene a hardcore fan might not get or feel a particular release by their fav band. Why insinuate that they will NEVER be happy and or ungrateful...I just dont get that

Because that's my impression of people.

There's always people who like to whine. Doesn't matter what the topic is.

About the weather, about the service at restaurants, about the Mets, about GN'R etc. etc. etc.

I doubt people get offended with your assessments, its more who are you to even question type thing. for me at least

The comments usually have the characteristics of somebody being offended.

everyone, including yourself,  modify their identities/selves/me's, as they socialize in different settings

Well, I wouldn't use that phrase. Usually people adapt to the situation. You don't become a completely different person (hopefully) when you're at home compared to when you're at work.

I assume people still are the same person even if they're at work, at home, or hanging out with friends and so on.


But the point was that if people get offended by comments said online.

I think they do.




/jarmo

[The Catcher]

  We live in a world of war, gross inequality, bigotry and every manifestation of human evil and we spend our time arguing about albums by a rock band?!  It's daft. 

This happens to be a message board dedicated to Guns N' Roses, that's why we are talking about it! Maybe we should start talking about North Korean nuclear policies instead? Why does it have to be either one or the other? It's possible to discuss music even though there are problems in the world, you know!

[freddiebrph]

If you hate 30 songs of the band's whole catalog, then maybe you're a fan of a special album and not the band itself?

Idk, thats a tough call. But if they show up to the shows and stuff then I still would classify them as fans.

there are fans and then are hardcore fans

Where is the line between being a casual rock fan and a GN'R fan?

Let's say you own Appetite For Destruction and love it. Does that alone make you a GN'R fan?

Of course.

Because as we all know, some of them will never be happy!

Something will always suck.

But why do you continue with that tone? You make it like some fans are ungrateful if they dont like everything a band releases. Music hits people in different ways. Evene a hardcore fan might not get or feel a particular release by their fav band. Why insinuate that they will NEVER be happy and or ungrateful...I just dont get that

Because that's my impression of people.

There's always people who like to whine. Doesn't matter what the topic is.

About the weather, about the service at restaurants, about the Mets, about GN'R etc. etc. etc.

I doubt people get offended with your assessments, its more who are you to even question type thing. for me at least

The comments usually have the characteristics of somebody being offended.

everyone, including yourself,  modify their identities/selves/me's, as they socialize in different settings

Well, I wouldn't use that phrase. Usually people adapt to the situation. You don't become a completely different person (hopefully) when you're at home compared to when you're at work.

I assume people still are the same person even if they're at work, at home, or hanging out with friends and so on.


But the point was that if people get offended by comments said online.

I think they do.




/jarmo

but sometimes you dont have a distinction between whining and being a fan. Yes, some do whine about everything. BUT, if a fan is mad or disappointed because their favorite band choses not to tour, that is not whining, that is a fan wanting to see their favorite band.  Seems like no matter what anyone says, if is not Axl is the best, and this new band and CD is his best work and "i am so happy he choses not to tour, release singles and videos, than you are a whiner?  I dont think so!

[ppbebe]

so what do you fail to understand about cd?

because sometimes you just can't understand why some other people don't like or even hate what you love.

anyhoo it's getting apparent that those who liked the band from the get go when the band wasn't well-known, don't mind the lineup changes.

The line up changes really only started to occur after 1992.  That is when the core broke up.  What is accepted, is that this is what Axl wants, and we are just glad to have his voice on some new music. Although, it would be nice to see him live this year. Pre 1992, you know who the guns were going to be.

yea izzy and steven left before that. those weren't lineup changes for you i guess.

Were you a fan when GNR was playing at clubs? In front of drunks that weren't there for music?
before scom hit the charts like inlikeflynn420?

[freddiebrph]

so what do you fail to understand about cd?

because sometimes you just can't understand why some other people don't like or even hate what you love.

anyhoo it's getting apparent that those who liked the band from the get go when the band wasn't well-known, don't mind the lineup changes.

The line up changes really only started to occur after 1992.  That is when the core broke up.  What is accepted, is that this is what Axl wants, and we are just glad to have his voice on some new music. Although, it would be nice to see him live this year. Pre 1992, you know who the guns were going to be.

yea izzy and steven left before that. those weren't lineup changes for you i guess.

Were you a fan when GNR was playing at clubs? In front of drunks that weren't there for music?
before scom hit the charts like inlikeflynn420?

one person getting fired becasue of a drug problem and Izzy leaving AFTER touring for years is not major line up changes.  ALL bands are not known by the masses until they have a hit. So you were not a fan eiother when no one ever heard of them. Unless you lived on the sunset strip and went to see them.  This can be said about motley crue, quiet riot, or any other band who got their strart like that. They all started out with a small following.  Whats your point? When AFD hit, the line up basically was the same intil they ADDED new members for the illusion tour.  Gets your facts straight! And please dont start on the traci guns BS, they were nothing until slash, duff, and steven

[ppbebe]

Izzy leaving AFTER touring for years is not major line up changes.

Izzy left before in the beginning of the illusion tour and after 1992 line up changes are suddenly major?

Gets your facts straight!

edit: mistake

[freddiebrph]

Izzy leaving AFTER touring for years is not major line up changes.

Izzy left before the illusion tour and after 1992 line up changes are suddenly major?

Gets your facts straight!

its one guy leaving?  that is NOT major line up changes.  I have seen them at least 4 times dating back to 1988.  From the 1st time they toured afd until 1992, the core of the band was the same. Axl adding horns and keyboard players is ADDING, not changing members.   Then I seen them in 2002 and 2006, in 4 short years, the whole band was almost not the same. MAJOR CHANGES. understand the difference?  And if they tour this year, different guns again?  That is not normal

[ppbebe]

but didn't you say

The line up changes really only started to occur after 1992.  That is when the core broke up.  What is accepted, is that this is what Axl wants, and we are just glad to have his voice on some new music. Although, it would be nice to see him live this year. Pre 1992, you know who the guns were going to be.

?

and any ex guy left one by one not all at once.

lets get back to the topic.

what is it you fail to understand about cd?

[freddiebrph]

but didn't you say

The line up changes really only started to occur after 1992.  That is when the core broke up.  What is accepted, is that this is what Axl wants, and we are just glad to have his voice on some new music. Although, it would be nice to see him live this year. Pre 1992, you know who the guns were going to be.

?

and any ex guy left one by one not all at once.

lets get back to the topic.

what is it you fail to understand about cd?

nothing, I happen to like it!