What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?

[jarmo]

So the vast majority of the world are "thick heads" then? How about any of your family members or 'friends' who don't agree with you?

Just because you're thick headed about an album, doesn't mean you're thick headed about everything else.

Not all my "friends" pretend to be GN'R fans online.....

Prick.

What's with your constant need to try to insult me?

Is it to appear cool online?

I think those glasses are smothering the crap from your sight

Come on. You can do better.


Glass jokes are so third grade. Is that the level you're at?

Also one thing that humours me is that any time you label us haters or not real fans you fail to show any proof of such claims and just hid behind sarcasm & 'wit' which you actually think is funny.

Isn't it funny?

The funniest part is that you feel personally insulted and have to try to insult my intelligence and the fact that I wear glasses.

How old are you?

Love also that when people stated you saw VR & loved it (with proof you see), you said people changed and that you didn't like it. So what changed during that time? Did Lord Axl remark anything about or did you just become a There Was A Time?

Yeah, I saw them. It was entertaining at the time.


What happened? I saw GN'R in 2006 and remembered there can only be one. Accept no imitations.

Along with many other real GN'R fans, we were trying to like the imitation. But got bored fast.




What's your excuse for being stupid enough to constantly break our rules then? All in the name of your "online image"?

Yes, yes, you're the coolest. You're calling a geek names on the Internet.

You = cool.


Happy now? Go tell your friends!







/jarmo

[BlowUpYourVideo]

To me, "thick headed" just seems a bit OTT. Fair enough, you may not agree with them, but dismissing them as stupid doesn't really help the cause.


EDIT: In response to BM's post.

[jarmo]

To me, "thick headed" just seems a bit OTT. Fair enough, you may not agree with them, but dismissing them as stupid doesn't really help the cause.

Seriously, the guys who used the thick headed reference first are the ones who are throwing personal insults around....

Something which is mentioned in our rules and people get warned for.

If you still do it, you don't come across as very clever.....



I question one person regarding why he only thinks Chinese Democracy is just "ok" and an army of people starts posting about me, including how I went to some VR shows years ago.

That's funny.

Wonder if they have anything else to add to the topic on the album or are more into talking about me and my "online image"?

Maybe they could give me some tips on how to seem cooler online and get fake friends online so I can feel more popular? Because apparently that's my only motivation.

 




/jarmo

[slash666]

Jarmo, I not even going to dignify that with a response that you can pleasure yourself to. Your opinion is never going to change (well unless Axl gives the OK) so its pointless trying to get something through to you, even when at most times your clutching at straws

When VR first came out I was happy to see the old guys out there. I was happy for Duff and Slash. But they (VR) got progressively gayer and lamer (mainly thanks to Weiland). I can see why Jarmo might have stopped digging them. And who the fuck agrees with every member of their family about things. I have family members who watch Fox News exclusively. And yes, the majority of the world is thick headed. I too would agree with that.

Wow, ignorant AND homophobic to top it off, wanna add more to that maybe anti-semitism or sexist?

[jarmo]

Your opinion is never going to change (well unless Axl gives the OK) so its pointless trying to get something through to you, even when at most times your clutching at straws

Yes, that's the usual answer to everything.

When you got nothing to say and I answered your questions, it's "no use talking to you".

Hahaha.


At least you still appear cool online.... 



No, you can't convince me Chinese Democracy is "just ok".

Because that's not my opinion.

Wow, ignorant AND homophobic to top it off, wanna add more to that maybe anti-semitism or sexist?

 

Talk about clutching at straws!




/jarmo

[LunsJail]

Saying you don't like the new music is ridiculous. I am seeing a trend with those that seem to not be onboard Chinese Democracy. If its a life and death situation between 2 people for instance, and I can only save one of them. I know nothing else about these 2 other then the fact that one of them loves Chinese Democracy, let me tell you bro. The one who doesn't love it will be a dead man.

That scenario seems very likely. Good thing you've decided what to do ahead of time.

[slash666]

No, you can't convince me Chinese Democracy is "just ok".

Fucking hell man get a grip, where have I ever tried to convince you to dislike the album or in that case said the album was just ok? I love the album. That was Mrlee's opinion and thats just what it was an opinion, regarding music there are no facts its all about personal preference. Theres no way at knowing which album is the greatest because there nothing fact based its all opinion, that why you notice the smarter fans here don't say the greatest ever they say their favourite. You might think its the best album ever and fair enough thats your opinion but for Gods sakes try and be more open and atleast repect others choices other than being a dick when people don't agree with you. Mrlee gave valid reason why he felt it lacked something whereas you never when slating his choice of music like an immature child.

Wow, ignorant AND homophobic to top it off, wanna add more to that maybe anti-semitism or sexist?

 

Talk about clutching at straws!

Defending homophobia is clutching at straws? What a fucked up perspective you have little man.

Unless of course your homophobic aswell? Surely theres bound to be some fans of GN'R who are gay, so are they suddenly not fans? What a good job you do of keeping things fair here isn't it. 

[loretian]

Defending homophobia is clutching at straws? What a fucked up perspective you have little man.

Defending homophobia?  Is that what he was doing? 

Yeah, actually, changing the topic of conversation to accuse someone of something that has nothing to do with anything relevant is a common "clutching at straws" technique.

Garbage in, garbage out.  Is it possible for you to talk to a person without being totally condescending?

[jarmo]

That was Mrlee's opinion and thats just what it was an opinion, regarding music there are no facts its all about personal preference. Theres no way at knowing which album is the greatest because there nothing fact based its all opinion, that why you notice the smarter fans here don't say the greatest ever they say their favourite. You might think its the best album ever and fair enough thats your opinion but for Gods sakes try and be more open and atleast repect others choices other than being a dick when people don't agree with you. Mrlee gave valid reason why he felt it lacked something whereas you never when slating his choice of music like an immature child.

And you act like a typical Internet tough guy defending your online buddy.

If you'd lighten up a bit and relax, you would've noticed that I've given you answers to everything.

The discussion was about musical tastes, but for you that wasn't good enough. You had to make it personal.

What the fuck does concerts I've visited in the past have to do with this topic? Maybe you two Mensa members can answer that one? What does the fact that I wear glasses have to do with anything? Another question I'd like answered.


The insults are coming from you and your buddy.

The terms thick head, prick and various others have been used about me.

But are you "upset" about it? No....

Wow, ignorant AND homophobic to top it off, wanna add more to that maybe anti-semitism or sexist?

 

Talk about clutching at straws!

Defending homophobia is clutching at straws? What a fucked up perspective you have little man.

Now it's "little man"?

Is that some kind of derogatory remark against short people?




I wasn't defending anything. I think you were clutching at straws because it seems you're angry at something/somebody and on some kind of mission to attack GN'R fans.

If you were so upset about homophobia, maybe you should've asked why this mrlee character posted about me "jacking off to pics of Axl".

Surely, it's supposed to be an insult with a gay reference.

No, that was fine because it was aimed at me.

Also, references to me jacking off to pics about Axl.

Oh right, you're only upset when it's somebody else who makes that "kind" of posts.






As I've said, insults are against our rules.

Good thing for you, I couldn't give a fuck what you think of me or how many times you try to insult me.



It seems like you're not the brightest bulb in the box because you keep posting insults even after being told it's not allowed here (and getting away with it).




To me it seems like you just needed an excuse to post insults aimed at me. You cpouldn't care less about the topic.

You just want to post shit about "Axl ass kissing" and "you went to those shows!!!!!!!!!".

Makes me feel special.



Just an FYI: This is the kind of people who most often gets banned from here. They keep going off topic, posting insults aimed at me and others here time after time. Won't stop when asked nicely and then eventually get themselves kicked out.

"I was banned because I disagreed with him!" is the excuse they use when describing what happened. In most cases, the truth is "you got banned because you're a moron!". Simple as that.




/jarmo

[slash666]

Internet tough guy? Ha as if.

Ihave never spoken to mrlee but felt the need to respond as I felt he was being treated unfairly. I'm not defending his post regarding jacking off Axl, that is homophobic aswell.

RE:little man, incase you didn't know I'm 6'6 and people generally refer to me as big man so I say little man, simple huh?

Fact is we don't agree with each other and never will cause we've both stubborn, so I'm not going to respond to you furthermore (regardless of your views) to save us both from butting heads. I'll stick to the peaceful sections of the board were people are respected.

[jarmo]

I'm not defending his post regarding jacking off Axl, that is homophobic aswell.

Fair enough.

RE:little man, incase you didn't know I'm 6'6 and people generally refer to me as big man so I say little man, simple huh?

Oh right. That's got so much to do with what I posted.

Fact is we don't agree with each other and never will cause we've both stubborn, so I'm not going to respond to you furthermore (regardless of your views) to save us both from butting heads. I'll stick to the peaceful sections of the board were people are respected.

Great idea!





/jarmo

[Electric Sintar]

Getting back to the original question.  To me it isn't what people fail to understand, it is why does it "seem" the band has given up on trying to make people understand.  There are some songs on this album that would blow anything away that is being played on the radio today.  TWAT would be a perfect song to release right now, and have it be one of those songs that make people remember a certain summer (for instance).  Kind of like SCOM in the summer of '89.  But, it needs to be released, and accompanied by a video or something.  The vast majority of music fans are casual fans that have to be forced fed a song a hundred times before they realize how good it is.  If anyone thought people were just going to buy this album because it was GnR, they were simply mistaken.  IMO, this is the 2nd best album ever released by Guns N Roses, but the only thing that will make people realize it, is promoting the album with singles, videos, and a tour.  Other then that, it will live in relative obscurity, which is a shame because it is the best album to come around in quite some time...

[younggunner]

I think the definition of lame is people who go to fan sites of bands that they used to like twenty years ago.


And that is my attitude.

Either you're on the boat, or you're not.

Some are happy to jump on board when the winds are blowing in the right direction and act like they were on board all the time.



I still haven't had it explained to me why it's a bad idea to have fans that actually support the band instead of a bunch of people who go "well I loved them 20 years ago and now I prefer everything else to them".



In my opinion, the only people who think the "get on board or fuck off" line is lame are the ones who feel targeted by it!

Nobody else seems to mind.

But then you have a bunch of people who are going "how dare you/they/he/she question me? I'm a real fan!".


When Axl says something about people who think they know what's going on but have no idea, I don't feel upset or personally insulted.

When Tommy says "get on board or fuck off", I don't feel insulted or targeted.

When Axl speaks out about people whining about the setlist, I never thought he was talking to me.


Maybe I'm ignorant?

Maybe I should feel personally insulted?

Again, people can still be "on board" but dislike the latest gnr album. If a person is fine with Axl moving on with the name isnt that person still on board? They just werent happy with the latest album...not because it wasnt Slash or AFD but because for whatever reason it didnt it home. Not every fan of a band loves the bands latest effort or any particular release. Does that not make them fans?

If I was a hardcore ACDC fan or whatever and I say o their latest album is overated or wasnt any good but I still like ACDC...does that mean Im a frontrunner or not a fan of ACDC? Doesnt make sense

The people who are cool with Axl moving on with the name but werent happy or whatever with CD(not because of slash, etc) are on board...they are just on a different deck

It seems to me that your seeking frontrunner fans and you dont even know it. Your asking people...or questioning people who are fine with the band why they didnt like the latest album. Then you discredit them. It jus doesnt make sense to me.

I only agree with the get on board or fuck off mantra when it concerns people who despise Axl for moving on with a new band. Then, yes, your lil argument would apply.

Do you think anyone feels insulted when Axl makes those types of statements?

Anyway, younggunner, what are you talking about? Are you saying that Obama trying to fix the damage that was done the last 10 years, and have America once again be a leader, is bad? And when America was experiencing great prosperity in the 90s was when this dumbing down first took place. Maybe you mean the dumbing down was when those threatened by the insanely high approval rating of Clinton and the American prosperity, decided to rewrite history about Reagan.

No, Im saying Obama is making it worse. But that is for a different thread.

People who didnt get CD might be smart as hell or dumb as hell. Doesnt really matter.... and there is no correlation.

[Jim Bob]

I have to say, I admire Jarmo's patience right now.   If someone came to my house insulting me the way some of these clowns are, they'd have already been shitcanned.

[ppbebe]

IMO it's the best album ever released by Guns N Roses.   agreed that the songs should be heard.
I believe you don't necessarily have to understand it to love the music.

Defending homophobia is clutching at straws? What a fucked up perspective you have little man.

Defending homophobia?  Is that what he was doing? 

Yeah, actually, changing the topic of conversation to accuse someone of something that has nothing to do with anything relevant is a common "clutching at straws" technique.

Garbage in, garbage out.  Is it possible for you to talk to a person without being totally condescending?

amen.
What is it, as soon as jarmo speak his mind some people should turn any subject to 'I fail to understand about jarmo' ? an admin can't have his opinions?

Their focus seems to be more on jarmo than the band. I get it. They are idolizing jarmo.

[inlikeflynn420]

What the fuck, I'll throw in my 2 cents. i think a lot of the haters are pretty anti-Axl and just pissed off about it not being the same lineup and not sounding like "appetite" revisited. I'm almost 42 years old. GnR has been my band since the get go. I discovered them in '88, the summer before my 21st birthday. Appetite For Destruction  was the perfect soundtrack for the crazy fucking life i was living at the time. And i played the fuck out of it. I went through many cassettes (a lot from wear and tear, and a few from leaving them on my dashboard and finding them melted from the blazing sun. ah, the days of cassettes...) There is a point here, bear with me as i relive my youth. Anyway, when "patience" came out, a lot of the metalheads i hung out with said "this sucks!" because it wasn't "welcome to the jungle" all over again. Personally, i loved it. It showed their range (much like i always thought "Rocket Queen" REALLY singled GnR out from the rest of the music at that time. As much as i loved the all-out rockers, that song more than any other on that album made me wonder what else this great fucking band was capable of. Moving on to the "illusion" albums. Got them the day they came out (on cassette). I was on a waiting list and everything. Remember, this is all pre-download era, so you had to buy shit or have a buddy who had it to listen to it. The songs on those albums were all over the place. It was way different from "appetite". While many of my friends didn't care for it, mainly the epic stuff like "November Rain", "Estranged", etc., i fucking loved the fact that it didn't sound just like "Appetite". There are some bands that stick to a formula successfully album after album, and that's cool, but i like when a band grows and changes their sound. Now, for every fan who turned away from GnR during the "illusions" era, many more "came on board". I could ramble all day, so i'll jump ahead to "Chinese Democracy". After all the wait, the hype, etc. there was bound to be negativ fallout. A LOT of people think Axl's an asshole, bottom line. During the long wait, i bought all the guys' solo stuff, VR included (i like a lot of Izzy's stuff, and still listen to Duff's CD kinda often). But i expected the new GnR album to be more than just solid, fun rock and roll. I had high expectations. And in my opinion, the new album is fucking awesome. I still listen to it every week, still hear new stuff every time i hear it. I can't hink of a CD that has had that effect on me. People see the CD at work or in my car and ask "is that any good?" so i'll play them the songs i like the most, and by that i get a pretty positive reaction. But i tell those people to do themselves a favor and listen to it IN ITS ENTIRETY. Several times. Getting back to the original topic (i think), i believe that's why a lot of people don't "get it". This album is best listened to AS AN ALBUM. There is a lot going on. In this day and age, music is often more about downloading a catchy song or two. I think "Chinese Democracy" is more like the old school albums that were best listened to from start to finish, either alone or maybe with some friends, some cold beers and possibly some mood-altering substance (trust me on this).
Anyway, i love the new music and i'm glad there are other people out there who are passionate about it as well. I liked the band before they were hugely popular, through the popular times, and i still do. I think it's kinda interesting that GnR has gone back to being a band that not everyone is into (or "gets"), but the people who are into the new music REALLY LOVE IT.
And that's cool by me. ROCK ON! 

[jarmo]

Good points.


It's an album. Not just a single plus filler tracks.

It seems to me that your seeking frontrunner fans and you dont even know it. Your asking people...or questioning people who are fine with the band why they didnt like the latest album. Then you discredit them. It jus doesnt make sense to me.

It makes no sense to you that somebody, who loves the band and all their albums, doesn't really understand how GN'R fans can just find it to be "just ok"? And therefore wants to know more about why.

I only agree with the get on board or fuck off mantra when it concerns people who despise Axl for moving on with a new band. Then, yes, your lil argument would apply.

But as far as I remember, the original quote wasn't in relation to anything like that.

Do you think anyone feels insulted when Axl makes those types of statements?

Do I think some people get offended when they get called out on shit? Definitely.





/jarmo

[younggunner]

It makes no sense to you that somebody, who loves the band and all their albums, doesn't really understand how GN'R fans can just find it to be "just ok"? And therefore wants to know more about why.

That part, as I previously stated, makes plenty of sense. But you often take it a step further and make it an old vs new thing. When in reality, some people just didnt like it for what it was. But that doesnt mean they cant be here and be GNR fans because they arent happy with CD.

There are tons of people out there who hate the Illusions and I bet they still call themselves GNR fans....or prefer the Illusions over AFD,etc....

Over a span of a bands existence they will release an album/s that a portion of the fanbase will not be happy with. That doesnt mean they hate the band, just means theyll have to listen to what they like and or wait for the next release.

I am on the same page with you in regards to the people who arent on board with GNR in the sense that they cant get over Axl moving on with a new band. But some people might be fine or content with Axl moving on with a new group but just arent feeling the album they made...big difference

Do I think some people get offended when they get called out on shit? Definitely.

In their personal life, absolutely...but on internet message boards...highly doubt it

[D]

I love every album from my favorite artists although more so than others.

For me, if someone doesn't think Prince's New CD is better than Purple Rain, are they no longer a Prince fan? Cause a lot of times that is the feeling one gets and I can understand that point of view.

Like if u prefer the old lineup somehow u are a new band hater which also isn't so.

I love CD but I still rank it below Appetite and the Illusion albums

that being said, AFD is a 10/10  UYI are 9.5/10 and CD is right around 9/10 which if u look at it, is still amazing.

I don't think it is slighting GNR by saying they don't like it as much as the other albums.

saying u hate it though....... I don't really understand that

[inlikeflynn420]

Here's another way to look at this. I'm sure we all have a movie that we absolutely fucking LOVE. So you loan someone the DVD and they watch it, give it back and say "ah, it was okay", or maybe they even say "that sucked!". Of course you are going to think "what the fuck are you talking about? did you even watch the whole movie? what are you thinking?!? that movie fucking rocks!" And then of course there are some movies that aren't that great, but they make a shitload of money even though they aren't much more than some cool cgi effects and no story. and that's okay, too. those movies can be a lot of fun, for what they are. And then sometimes there are movies that are great fucking movies, real art,  AND they make a shitload of money. It's kinda nice if a movie you love becomes a hit. but it's also cool if you love a movie and it becomes a cult classic, with a maniacal, passionate following. Sometimes that's even cooler. I don't go for the idea of liking something only because it is obscure, and then god forbid it becomes popular, you can't like it anymore or you're not "cool". And i sure as fuck don't go for "liking" something just because it is popular. If you like something, fucking like it. don't worry about it someone else does or not. GnR has gone through it all, and they've been a great fucking band through each stage -- had a building following at the beginning but not instant success, became incredibly huge (while still producing quality tunes), and now after this long wait, lineup shakeups, a huge budget -- Axl has given us what has become -- judging by the feelings of a lot of people here -- the musical equivalent of a great fucking cult classic with some real fans of this music. Would it be cool if "Chinese Democracy" sold 20 million? Sure. Would it make the music any better? no.
Is it cool to be a part of the group of fans who love this album, regardless of whether or not their taste in music is vindicated by the sales of the album?

Abso-fucking-lutely!

I'm gonna go have me an ice cold PBR and listen to... well, you can probably guess