What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?

[peter7411226]

what do you mean not addressing who is in the band??  Its in plain english on the band's myspace profile.. is it not?!?

Im quite sure he meant "introducing" them to the general public.  (Who probably don't visit the GNR myspace page all that often).

it sounded like he himself was unsure of who was in the band.   the people who dont' read these boards aren't hardcore fans enough to care who is currently playing drums in GnR.

everyone on this site knows who is in the band. theres no question.

In the Del James interview Axl was vague at best when asked who was in the band. His answer was that it would be some sort of lineup from the people from the last tour. Really? Im in a band, if another of my band members made a comment like that I would take it as an insult. Name names. Take band pics, advertise your band. Get them out there and give them the respect they deserve. Axl's put together a hell of a band now get them out there and show the world that This is GNR. Only the die hards know who's in the band more or less. If you ask a casual GNR band who's in the band you just might here someone say Slash. Trust me people associate Guns n roses with the old band. If Axl is serious about this lineup then hes gotta get a massive campaign to change that.

[Naltav]

People aren't quite getting this.  The point is that  Not ALL fan's are preapred to look up a bands myspace page to see who is in the band!  They only learn who is in the band cos the band is popular and successful.

Its up to the band to entice them, they won't go looking.

Im sure everyone on this board knows whose in the band but maybe there are fan's that aren't bothered checking every bit of news, twitter and myspace pages

So the problem here is that the band isn't popular and successful??!!

I own every Muse album and DVD released, gonna see them live later this year, but I honestly couldn't name the band-members if my life depended on it! You might argue that then I'm NOT a fan. Then so be it! I don't care. And I'll bet you, the same goes for thousands of attendees at their shows. What's important is that those three guys  (I think it's three...) make some incredible music!!

If a re-release of ChiDem and tour would shoot GN'R to the top of the charts again around the world, then people would see the new faces in the band. But still, you would have a lot of "fans" around the world who wouldn't recognize Bumble on the street! And again, it doesn't really matter! Why? Because the music is great!!  

It just isn't 1992 anymore. Where MTV is the "only" news-outlet reporting on a dailly basis how the latest GN'R tour is conquering Europe! Sure, those days where great! Axl is one of the last great frontmen of that era! And we all know he and the new band has made a killer album together. Is it at times frustrating that our favourite band isn't "out there" doing their thing? Yes, but we have to be grown up about it! You will get, what you get, when you get it!  

[ppbebe]

I own every Muse album and DVD released, gonna see them live later this year, but I honestly couldn't name the band-members if my life depended on it!

me neither. I'm pretty big on kasabien and arctic monkeys and I got to see the album covers to name the members. 

I do understand there are reasons why they are topping the charts  in the uk and not in the us yet. exposure is one of them.
I believe U2 or david bowie were in such status before  u2 changed with joshua tree, bowie with... china town (?) and became huge in the us. I'm sure each time some old fans dropped out for good and more new fans joined in. When people were watching MTV and no internet, right?

[BlowUpYourVideo]

Really? Some of you are big fans of bands who you don't know the members of? Maybe it's just me, but that seems a bit odd. All the bands I enjoy the music of, I tend to be interested who is actually playing it. Not saying you have to know band members' names, it just seemed a bit strange to read that.

Fair enough, there are some bands who I own albums by that I probably couldn't name all the members, but I'm not as big a fan of those bands as I am with, say, GNR or AC/DC. I enjoy them but I'm not a big enough fan to find out much about them. Perhaps this is a problem that GNR have? People may think some of the songs sound good but aren't willing to look much further?? I don't know, just a thought I came to through my ramblings.

[ppbebe]

I ain't much of an idolater. I realise that there're still idol worships for the old gnr guys and that's because of the publicity they got.

People made idols of the old lineup. And that hasn't been properly replaced in their minds yet despite the ample idol materials in the chinese lineup. This band has the look and humour and characters. Just that the world hasn't known them well yet.

If you have songs for sale, you don't need to be understood but you got to be known. Do anyone from the us know Paolo Nutini?

Publicity and hype. That's all you need.

But is it really worth in the long run? When you want people to enjoy your music, rather than yourselves.
An idol is a fallacy. The Media would paint you out to be whatever fit their book/magazines/papers/shows. Going by them, people would love you for what you're not and hate you for what you're not. They wouldn't give a fuck about what you really are, to be precise. They'd use you and then dump you for 'the next big thing'. The biggest act of the day means soon to be has been. hip today, uncool tomorrow.

It's still possible the band will do the promotion anew eventually in their own way. Axl said he had plans which were neglected. I doubt those were like the ones in the good old days.

[peter7411226]

I ain't much of an idolater. I realise that there're still idol worships for the old gnr guys and that's because of the publicity they got.

People made idols of the old lineup. And that hasn't been properly replaced in their minds yet despite the ample idol materials in the chinese lineup. This band has the look and humour and characters. Just that the world hasn't known them well yet.

If you have songs for sale, you don't need to be understood but you got to be known. Do anyone from the us know Paolo Nutini?

Publicity and hype. That's all you need.

But is it really worth in the long run? When you want people to enjoy your music, rather than yourselves.
An idol is a fallacy. The Media would paint you out to be whatever fit their book/magazines/papers/shows. Going by them, people would love you for what you're not and hate you for what you're not. They wouldn't give a fuck about what you really are, to be precise. They'd use you and then dump you for 'the next big thing'. The biggest act of the day means soon to be has been. hip today, uncool tomorrow.

It's still possible the band will do the promotion anew eventually in their own way. Axl said he had plans which were neglected. I doubt those were like the ones in the good old days.

Yeah but you forget that this is a business. The lack of promotion by the band makes it less and less likely that any label would want to put money into a product that really isnt interested in putting in the work to support an album. Also, people made the old lineup idols because GNR at one point were everywhere. Posters, magazines, videos, constant touring. That plus kick ass music made them the biggest band in the world. In regards to the biggest act of the day means soon to be has been remark.....I think there are certain bands that are above that. I think that applies to bands like creed, nickleback...but the legendary bands like GNR, Metallica, AC/DC always find a way to stay relevant.

[D]

I think a lot of GNR fans forget that GNR are a huge "Mainstream" band.

They aren't Muse or Velvet Underground or bands who are still kind of underground etc.

When u are a BRAND like GNR,Metallica,AC/DC,Bon Jovi, U2 etc  success is measured by the general public  by albums sold, tour gross etc.

[ppbebe]

but the legendary bands like GNR, Metallica, AC/DC always find a way to stay relevant.

there was a time when GNR was "uncool" so "too cool to be GNR" people left...

and yes GNR's found the way to stay relevant. the music. And at some point they may start the promotions that aren't irrelevant to the net age.

[D]

One could also look at it as, Axl has already had the mainstream rock star legend success. Now he may just be getting the art out cause he no longer has to worry about his place in music history. He has done it all already and I don't think that stuff motivates him too much.


Think about it. Axl has the best of both worlds.

he will always be one of the greatest frontmen of all time. He is rich, has a fabulous lifestyle, can make music and tour when he wants BUT doesn't have to deal with shit others have to deal with. No TMZ, no tabloids, I'd say he is able to go out shopping now, restaurants etc

so thats probably how he likes it now.

[peter7411226]

but the legendary bands like GNR, Metallica, AC/DC always find a way to stay relevant.

there was a time when GNR was "uncool" so "too cool to be GNR" people left...

and yes GNR's found the way to stay relevant. the music. And at some point they may start the promotions that aren't irrelevant to the net age.

When was GNR uncool? During the grunge period? I lived through that and GNR were still popular. Mind you they were largely inactive during the grunge period but they were a very popular and cool band. I agree about the music always keeping them relevant. That was my point. The legendary bands have a way of always remaining relevant. Also why is the promotion irrelevant to the net age? In my last statement I said that whether we like it or not this is a business. The label spent 15 million on this album. This album was supposed to be alot bigger than it actually was. Now do you think any other label will want to invest money into a band that while very talented isnt really willing to promote it. I dont think so.

[Rockin' Rose]

One could also look at it as, Axl has already had the mainstream rock star legend success. Now he may just be getting the art out cause he no longer has to worry about his place in music history. He has done it all already and I don't think that stuff motivates him too much.


Think about it. Axl has the best of both worlds.

he will always be one of the greatest frontmen of all time. He is rich, has a fabulous lifestyle, can make music and tour when he wants BUT doesn't have to deal with shit others have to deal with. No TMZ, no tabloids, I'd say he is able to go out shopping now, restaurants etc

so thats probably how he likes it now.

Can't really disagree with this one.. but I still would say that even with the UYI albums Axl still brought out the "true" artist, like in Estranged when you are/were expecting a guitar solo, Axl gives you a long beatiful piano solo in the middle in the song, not something many would dare to make.

And I really don't care what people fail to understand about CD, it's their loss

[peter7411226]

One could also look at it as, Axl has already had the mainstream rock star legend success. Now he may just be getting the art out cause he no longer has to worry about his place in music history. He has done it all already and I don't think that stuff motivates him too much.


Think about it. Axl has the best of both worlds.

he will always be one of the greatest frontmen of all time. He is rich, has a fabulous lifestyle, can make music and tour when he wants BUT doesn't have to deal with shit others have to deal with. No TMZ, no tabloids, I'd say he is able to go out shopping now, restaurants etc

so thats probably how he likes it now.

Can't really disagree with this one.. but I still would say that even with the UYI albums Axl still brought out the "true" artist, like in Estranged when you are/were expecting a guitar solo, Axl gives you a long beatiful piano solo in the middle in the song, not something many would dare to make.

And I really don't care what people fail to understand about CD, it's their loss

Actually Dizzy plays piano in estranged and Slash and Izzy wrote the music.

[ppbebe]

but the legendary bands like GNR, Metallica, AC/DC always find a way to stay relevant.

there was a time when GNR was "uncool" so "too cool to be GNR" people left...

and yes GNR's found the way to stay relevant. the music. And at some point they may start the promotions that aren't irrelevant to the net age.

When was GNR uncool? During the grunge period? I lived through that and GNR were still popular. Mind you they were largely inactive during the grunge period but they were a very popular and cool band.

Guess that depends on who you associate with. Even Led Zeppelin or Beatles had a time when they were considered to be uncool.

Also why is the promotion irrelevant to the net age? In my last statement I said that whether we like it or not this is a business. The label spent 15 million on this album. This album was supposed to be alot bigger than it actually was. Now do you think any other label will want to invest money into a band that while very talented isnt really willing to promote it. I dont think so.

I said they'd do the promotion in their own way that is up to this age not like in the MTV age.

[peter7411226]

but the legendary bands like GNR, Metallica, AC/DC always find a way to stay relevant.

there was a time when GNR was "uncool" so "too cool to be GNR" people left...

and yes GNR's found the way to stay relevant. the music. And at some point they may start the promotions that aren't irrelevant to the net age.

When was GNR uncool? During the grunge period? I lived through that and GNR were still popular. Mind you they were largely inactive during the grunge period but they were a very popular and cool band.

Guess that depends on who you associate with. Even Led Zeppelin or Beatles had a time when they were considered to be uncool.

Also why is the promotion irrelevant to the net age? In my last statement I said that whether we like it or not this is a business. The label spent 15 million on this album. This album was supposed to be alot bigger than it actually was. Now do you think any other label will want to invest money into a band that while very talented isnt really willing to promote it. I dont think so.

I said they'd do the promotion in their own way that is up to this age not like in the MTV age.

Respectfully, I dont ever think The Beatles or Zeppelin were ever considered uncool.

[ppbebe]

ask people who went through the 60s hard rock and disco and the 70s punk and new wave era real time. I didn't. 

Then again, who gives two shits about those 'too cool' people? the media and the industry. And maybe some part of  the general public.

[Jim Bob]

idol worship?

guys, most of us are grown adults.    Sure I idolized them back when I was a teenager, but today they are simply my favorite band.  no more, no less.

[Rockin' Rose]

One could also look at it as, Axl has already had the mainstream rock star legend success. Now he may just be getting the art out cause he no longer has to worry about his place in music history. He has done it all already and I don't think that stuff motivates him too much.


Think about it. Axl has the best of both worlds.

he will always be one of the greatest frontmen of all time. He is rich, has a fabulous lifestyle, can make music and tour when he wants BUT doesn't have to deal with shit others have to deal with. No TMZ, no tabloids, I'd say he is able to go out shopping now, restaurants etc

so thats probably how he likes it now.

Can't really disagree with this one.. but I still would say that even with the UYI albums Axl still brought out the "true" artist, like in Estranged when you are/were expecting a guitar solo, Axl gives you a long beatiful piano solo in the middle in the song, not something many would dare to make.

And I really don't care what people fail to understand about CD, it's their loss

Actually Dizzy plays piano in estranged and Slash and Izzy wrote the music.

Well actually, Axl plays piano on the studio version, and I wouldn't be too sure about Slash and Izzy writing the music, as Estranged is Axl's baby. Slash did come up with the killer guitar melodies and offcourse the whole band contributed but I'm quite sure it's Axl who wrote the all the piano melodies. 

And for not hijacking this thread, even though GN'R became a "mainstream" band after SCOM, I don't think they wanted or even tried to make mainstream records, just music they wanted to.

[ppbebe]

By the way if you did listen to that aol twitter requests station, You'd know every song on cd is a god damn hit single material.

Save for the die hards like us most people around the world still think that the old members are still in the band.

Anyone who thinks that doesn't know who are the old members, I imagine.

not always..there are just casual rock fans out there, the ones in their 30's and 40's who have kids and a busy life who can't keep up with the band like we do.  They just ASSUME that Slash is in the band since it has the name Guns N Roses on it.  These are also the same people who have no idea "Chinese Democracy" came out. The amount of people I meet who have no idea the album even came out is disturbing...

yea but such casual fans wouldn't mind lineup changes much as diehards and critics do. When their lives have changed why a band wouldn't? But if they are told 'it's not good any more' by those who mind, they may well be put off before they even hear a song themselves.

[ppbebe]

idol worship?

guys, most of us are grown adults.    Sure I idolized them back when I was a teenager, but today they are simply my favorite band.  no more, no less.

I wouldn't hate to see the guys in chinese era GNR being idolized tho.

[jarmo]

Respectfully, I dont ever think The Beatles or Zeppelin were ever considered uncool.

Led Zeppelin wasn't the coolest band in the world at the end of their career. When punk was the cool thing to listen to.


The same thing happens to most bands.

When you first make it, you're cool. Then if you can follow up that hit album, you can still be cool. Otherwise the media will find some new band to take their place.

If the band keeps going, a few years later the media will swing around and start hyping the band again. Then it's labeled "classic" or "legends all of a sudden. That can make a band cool.

But in some cases, that makes you uncool! Because it means you're old.....

There seems to be no logic to that. Other than personal preferences.


On top of that, one band can be cool even though they do things that other bands would get ridiculed for. Like playing the same exact choreographed set night after night. In AC/DC's case,, it's cool. Some other bands would not get away with it without being labeled lazy/boring.

The Rolling Stones are old. AC/DC is old and cool. Makes very little sense.




So how does this relate to GN'R?

Well, they can get attacked for not sounding like their old albums. But if they did, they could get attacked for trying to re-create the past.....

The thing people fail to understand is that musicians are humans too. Just because some of them manage to write the same songs over and over again, doesn't mean all of them are that same angry 20 year old they were 20 years ago.



/jarmo