What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?

[Naltav]

I don't think there is an easy explanation as to why Chinese Democracy hasn't sold well after the initial release last November. I have my own theories, but they've been discussed over and over by a number of members of this board. For me, who'll be 39 in November, it's pretty cut and dried: Chinese Democracy is a good record, but it's not what I'd call Guns N' Roses. Axl should have renamed the band, and let the name Guns N' Roses have its' place in music history. My Guns N' Roses will always be Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, and Steven/Matt.

Thats awesome you are stuck in the past.   Great job at bringing up stupid dead horse topics.   

Axl Rose owns the name, you do not.  Therefore he and he alone decides what is or isn't Guns N' Roses.   

All that matters is the music.   I can understand prefering certian lineups but what you are saying is just ignorant.

Sorry, but the more I think of 'Chinese Democracy', it really is an Axl Rose solo effort.

you have no business or authority to make such an asinine statement.   you really should keep these kinds of comments to yourself because they make you look foolish.

No, that's where you're wrong, buddy. The public HAS decided who Guns N' Roses are. If Axl wants to attempt to sell a few more records by keeping the Guns N' Roses name, I can't control that. Truth is, the CD would probably be selling better if it weren't being marketed as a Guns N' Roses album.

Here's a thought- if in the very slimmest of chances that the old band does reunite- why don't you just stay home and not go to any of the reunion shows? I wouldn't want you to feel like you were "stuck in the past". The tens of millions of us in the United States ALONE will gladly go in your place.

Yes, the public HAS decided!!  Among the millions of people who have seen the band perform since 2000, the majority knew that Slash, Duff and Izzy wasn't going to be there.... Well, to correct myself, Izzy were there for some shows.

You and other fans of the old lineup, can keep repeating your nostalgic wishes till you're blue in the face. It will never change the simple fact that MOST people who go to the shows, is psyched to see GN'R as long as that legendary voice is present!

When fans nowadays are whining about the "old" linup, I actually catch myself wondering if you mean the bucket/Finck lineup.....   

THAT is how much water has passed under the bridge..... Past members have moved on with their careers and lives a long long time ago. It's way past overdue that some fans wake up and smell the coffee!

[The Catcher]

Just because the album supposedly didn't meet sales expectations, and by the way who's expectations, or draw in a new crowd of listeners around the globe, or even grab the attention of all the previous fans of the day, I am thrilled just to have this album for my own enjoyment, I waited long and I love what Axl has done for those of us who were really interested.  All of us longtime supporters, well, we got what we wished for, Axl delivered to us an album that meant something to him, and to alot of his current fans old or new, I don't think it really matters to Axl how the rest of the planet interacts with it, for it is possible he is content with just that, and I am content enjoying his work as well.  If there is more to follow at a later time, I will be more than excited to share in that enjoyment, but I am not going to join in here and try to project why things didn't meet the planets expectations, or try to compare them to others, they don't play like the others musically or in life itself, that is why they are Guns n Roses, that is what has drawn me in from the very beginning.  Axl doesn't require the same attention he once endured, I don't feel that is what his expectations were or are at this point, I believe he created an album that for once he enjoyed making his way, on his own time, I thank him, in my personal world, it is what I believe to be some of his most excellent work.  I'm fullfilled....

I hope this post is not aimed at me, as I could not be happier with the album and have never demanded a goddamn thing, not even the album. I simply raised the question about the public's reception to it, it has nothing to do with my personal happiness or feelings towards GN'R.

"KingAxl", keep digging yourself deeper into that hole. With your comments about how Axl wants to make a few more bucks on keeping the GN'R name, you just revealed yourself to know absolutely nothing about the artist you claim to be a fan of or what he is about.

[jacdaniel]

I can only speak for my country here but here goes.  Im Irish by the by.

The CD is available in ALL stores.  We don't have Walmart or best buy but it was out in ALL stores over here.  I didnt see any posters, ads on TV or ANY promotion at all.  The main radio stations don't generally play GNR, we get Britney spears instead lol.  Basically, unless your a hard core guns fan, you probably wouldnt have even noticed it was for sale.

2 of my friends also really like Guns.  One thought the album was ok, the other didnt buy it yet!   

My Dad is also a big GNR fan but he is stuck in his ways at 48 years old and has the opinion "Its not really Guns n Roses".

What this tells me is that, if they want this album to sell, they need to do something to make people notice who they are.
A video and a single would really help in this respect.  But the members really need exposure.  Wheter or not Axl wants to be a big rockstar again, thats his choice, not mine. 

My answer to this thread is:

Guns need to get out there and do something to get noticed if they want to be big sellers.  If they don't, its unlikely that the record company will be pumping in the money for future albums.

[Albert S Miller]

Just because the album supposedly didn't meet sales expectations, and by the way who's expectations, or draw in a new crowd of listeners around the globe, or even grab the attention of all the previous fans of the day, I am thrilled just to have this album for my own enjoyment, I waited long and I love what Axl has done for those of us who were really interested.  All of us longtime supporters, well, we got what we wished for, Axl delivered to us an album that meant something to him, and to alot of his current fans old or new, I don't think it really matters to Axl how the rest of the planet interacts with it, for it is possible he is content with just that, and I am content enjoying his work as well.  If there is more to follow at a later time, I will be more than excited to share in that enjoyment, but I am not going to join in here and try to project why things didn't meet the planets expectations, or try to compare them to others, they don't play like the others musically or in life itself, that is why they are Guns n Roses, that is what has drawn me in from the very beginning.  Axl doesn't require the same attention he once endured, I don't feel that is what his expectations were or are at this point, I believe he created an album that for once he enjoyed making his way, on his own time, I thank him, in my personal world, it is what I believe to be some of his most excellent work.  I'm fullfilled....

I hope this post is not aimed at me, as I could not be happier with the album and have never demanded a goddamn thing, not even the album. I simply raised the question about the public's reception to it, it has nothing to do with my personal happiness or feelings towards GN'R.

"KingAxl", keep digging yourself deeper into that hole. With your comments about how Axl wants to make a few more bucks on keeping the GN'R name, you just revealed yourself to know absolutely nothing about the artist you claim to be a fan of or what he is about.

This post was not aimed at anyone at all, notice "I", these are strictly my own thoughts and feelings, but also to say I'm not going to speculate on the reasons why.  I believe in Axl's mind, he made the music, he is proud of his work, you can like it or not and at the end of the day, "It don't really matter".

[freddiebrph]

I don't think there is an easy explanation as to why Chinese Democracy hasn't sold well after the initial release last November. I have my own theories, but they've been discussed over and over by a number of members of this board. For me, who'll be 39 in November, it's pretty cut and dried: Chinese Democracy is a good record, but it's not what I'd call Guns N' Roses. Axl should have renamed the band, and let the name Guns N' Roses have its' place in music history. My Guns N' Roses will always be Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, and Steven/Matt.

Thats awesome you are stuck in the past.   Great job at bringing up stupid dead horse topics.   

Axl Rose owns the name, you do not.  Therefore he and he alone decides what is or isn't Guns N' Roses.   

All that matters is the music.   I can understand prefering certian lineups but what you are saying is just ignorant.

Sorry, but the more I think of 'Chinese Democracy', it really is an Axl Rose solo effort.

you have no business or authority to make such an asinine statement.   you really should keep these kinds of comments to yourself because they make you look foolish.

No, that's where you're wrong, buddy. The public HAS decided who Guns N' Roses are. If Axl wants to attempt to sell a few more records by keeping the Guns N' Roses name, I can't control that.

Here's a thought- if in the very slimmest of chances that the old band does reunite- why don't you just stay home and not go to any of the reunion shows? I wouldn't want you to feel like you were "stuck in the past". The tens of millions of us in the United States ALONE will gladly go in your place.

Again, Axl Rose is the ONLY person who decides who is in Guns N' Roses.  Not anyone else, and certainly not a nobody like yourself.   You are nothing, stop talking like you have some sort of say in this.   I bet the millions of fans who saw the band in 2006-07 and the couple million who bought Chinese Democracy would beg to differ with what you call "the public".

If you reunionist tools stop posting here until that day (never) comes, I will return the favor and stay home. 

Ya know, it's a fucking shame for those that are "in" Guns N' Roses these days, to have to resort to touring with their side projects or other bands this summer because they can't depend on the "decision-maker" to do a tour in support of a record which at least one of the "members" didn't play on. Dude, go ahead and call me a nobody...I don't care. I helped make Axl Rose a rich man in the 1980's when you were playing with your fucking Transformers toys and watching Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. You didn't even have any hair on YOUR DICK when I saw GN'R for the first time, so don't fucking tell me I gotta get out of the past and accept this GN'R for what it is. Chinese Democracy is a good record that happens to feature Axl Rose on vocals. I can decide for myself whether it's a true Guns N' Roses album, and until a fucking tour takes place in support of it, I reserve the right to call it an Axl Rose solo project. Period.

I kind of agree with both of you on this.  I am in your age bracket, so we were lucky enough to see the real thing, appreciate it, and realize that this is not that. As far as "the milliuons" of people who seen Axl in 2006 and 2007, I was there again, both times.  Now taking out the big festivals where there are multiple bands, I would say way over half of the place I seen them was with people my age and wearing the old shirts, etc.  Most were there to see Axl again, here all the great music of the past, and maybe get a glimpse of some new material.  Lets not pretend that there were all these new fans there because of CD.  Remember, no one on this boards ever downloaded any of the music, so how could you even know it: :-)   I beleive most of the people at those shows felt the way I did. I loved it!!!!!! The band did sound really good, and it brought back some great memories. So if they polled everyone walking out, I believe the majority of people would answer like this. Did you love the show? hell yes!  Did you miss seeing slash, duff, and izzy. Hell yes.  There is nothing wrong with loving the band you grew up with.  Axl can have the name, and do what ever he wants with it.  Will not ever change how his music from the other band moved me at that time. I know there are fans that are too heavy on one side or another, but I honestly believe that most like and appreciate both.  If you only like the songs on CD, than I can understand being on that side, but even if you like one song from the past, which how can you be a gnr fan and not, than you also like what the old band did as well.

[jacdaniel]

unfortunately, i was never fortunate enough to see the old band.  They played in Ireland when i was just 6 years old.
But i saw Guns in 2006, Velvet Revolver, snakepit and loaded.

Nothing seems to compare though to the old shows in sweaty places like the Ritz.  Them shows looked timeless and was funny seeing some members look so drunk on stage. 

I don't see a problem liking both bands.  But we're getting a little off topic here. 

People don't understand about CD cos its not in the news and wasnt promoted.

[King Axl]

This is the last time I'm going to comment for a while, then I'm just going to lay low....

Jim Bob, I guess you have to resort to being a tough guy to make your point. You can be a fan of the new Guns, but I prefer the old Guns. If you were a 16, 17, or 18 year old kid in 1987 or 1988, you'd know that version of Guns was on its' way to becoming perhaps the most popular band of all-time. I'm talking bigger than Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, even THE BEATLES (yes, you read right). The buzz was unreal, and I'm proud to have been the first person I knew of to have a copy of 'Appetite'. I saw them in August of 1988 opening for Aerosmith, in Mansfield, Massachusetts- Aerosmith's home turf. Yet there were more people wearing Guns N' Roses t-shirts that night, because they saw what I saw- a band on the rise, with nothing to stand in their way. Guns N' Roses were taking over America.

I like the Chinese Democracy album, I sincerely do. I absolutely would like to see a tour happen in support of the album. Until, or UNLESS, this happens, I think Axl is shitting all over the legacy of the Guns N' Roses name. The name Guns N' Roses is now becoming synonymous with an album that took a ridiculous amount of time to manifest itself; the Chinese Democracy album itself, which has yielded one official radio single and no videos in the seven months since its' release; a constantly rotating carousel of musicians who leave the band as fast as they came in; a series of botched tours that have played to less than 100% capacity about 90% of the time, when the shows haven't been cancelled altogether; and a website that is embarrassingly bad- when is that official merchandise shop coming? Perhaps this is why I hang on to my memories of the 1987-1993 Guns N' Roses so closely.

I will be curious to see if all of you pro "new GN'R" supporters will be feeling the same way six months from now, when in all likelihood, there will be about as much activity and news regarding GN'R as there has been in the previous six months. Eventually, you have to move on , and that's where I feel I'm at. No disrespect to anyone who prefers GN'R today to the GN'R of twenty years ago, but at some point, you have to collectively make your voice be heard and say "Axl...WHAT THE FUCK?!"

[jacdaniel]

Well, no one can ever take them memories away from you!

[jarmo]

Talk about selective memory.

Maybe it's an age thing?


GN'R back in the early 90s were "known" for many of the see things you hate today. Riots, "late" starts, canceled shows etc.

I guess the difference is, that you thought that was rock n' roll! Then suddenly that doesn't fit with your lifestyle. You need a babysitter etc. So now it's a bad thing.



It all depends on what you choose to believe.

You choose to believe that everything was better "back in the old days".

Like anybody else who wants to be part of that nostalgia crowd.

This is the last time I'm going to comment for a while, then I'm just going to lay low....

Good idea.

Just watch those old VHS tapes and dream.





/jarmo

[jacdaniel]

GN'R back in the early 90s were "known" for many of the see things you hate today. Riots, "late" starts, canceled shows etc.

It all depends on what you choose to believe.

You choose to believe that everything was better "back in the old days".

Like anybody else who wants to be part of that nostalgia crowd.

Yeah but they still released 4 cool albums in the space of as many years.  I think that particular poster was just praising how the old band shot to fame and knocked classic bands like Aerosmith and Metallica off their perch to get the title of the biggest band in the world.  I don't see any issue with a fan holding onto such great memories.  He also praised CD and said he would love a GNR tour but that gets ignored quickly.

And the line up changes these days would give anyone whiplash.  I know GNR has always had line up changes but the spine always remained intact.

Bootom line, let the guy have his great memories and be a fan of Chinese Democracy Guns too.

[Naltav]

I kind of agree with both of you on this.  I am in your age bracket, so we were lucky enough to see the real thing, appreciate it, and realize that this is not that. As far as "the milliuons" of people who seen Axl in 2006 and 2007, I was there again, both times.  Now taking out the big festivals where there are multiple bands, I would say way over half of the place I seen them was with people my age and wearing the old shirts, etc.  Most were there to see Axl again, here all the great music of the past, and maybe get a glimpse of some new material.  Lets not pretend that there were all these new fans there because of CD.  Remember, no one on this boards ever downloaded any of the music, so how could you even know it: :-)   I beleive most of the people at those shows felt the way I did. I loved it!!!!!! The band did sound really good, and it brought back some great memories. So if they polled everyone walking out, I believe the majority of people would answer like this. Did you love the show? hell yes!  Did you miss seeing slash, duff, and izzy. Hell yes.  There is nothing wrong with loving the band you grew up with.  Axl can have the name, and do what ever he wants with it.  Will not ever change how his music from the other band moved me at that time. I know there are fans that are too heavy on one side or another, but I honestly believe that most like and appreciate both.  If you only like the songs on CD, than I can understand being on that side, but even if you like one song from the past, which how can you be a gnr fan and not, than you also like what the old band did as well.

Nice to read a post from an "old-gnr-fan" that is not all bitter, hatefull and whiny! Some forum members should take notes!   

Most were there to see Axl again, here all the great music of the past, and maybe get a glimpse of some new material.

Correct-a-mundo! 

I know there are fans that are too heavy on one side or another, but I honestly believe that most like and appreciate both.  If you only like the songs on CD, than I can understand being on that side, but even if you like one song from the past, which how can you be a gnr fan and not, than you also like what the old band did as well.

Well said, man!

If Axl really gets the band on the road, releases yet more albums with the new line up and once again "rule" the rock world. I'll bet we will still have fans and forum members on the boards that lean heaviely to one side or the other. My hope is that, whatever side you lean towards, the different fans remain mature about the situation.
It seems to me that too much time is spent by various forum-members, on either side, trying to convince the other side that their view is the "correct" one!

My view is, there is no "correct" way to feel about the GNR-situation. Music is a very powerfull form of art. If you're a fan of Slash as a cool rock-guitarist that made awesome riffs that forever will be carved in rock history. Or if you're a fan of Axl as one of the greatest frontmen in in rock history that wrote beautifull lyrics and great music and performed them with a feel that is second to none. Either way, that admiration and those feelings for the art cuts so deep that having an "opposing" fan trying to convince you otherwise is not gonna sit well with either one!

Ad to that, all the personal insults that fly around the boards, you got a recipe for disaster! We say stuff to each other here, that we would NEVER say, if you met that person at a bar and the topic came up. The anonymous state of being a "nickname" on the internet, just shouldn't justify bad and rude  behaviour!

And it's easy to get sucked into the arguments, I know I have from time to time. And pesonally, I am just sick of these arguments! And I suspect other forum-members feel the same way I do.

I know it's a clich?, but I guess we all just have to agree to disagree....   






 

[peter7411226]

GN'R back in the early 90s were "known" for many of the see things you hate today. Riots, "late" starts, canceled shows etc.

It all depends on what you choose to believe.

You choose to believe that everything was better "back in the old days".

Like anybody else who wants to be part of that nostalgia crowd.

Yeah but they still released 4 cool albums in the space of as many years.  I think that particular poster was just praising how the old band shot to fame and knocked classic bands like Aerosmith and Metallica off their perch to get the title of the biggest band in the world.  I don't see any issue with a fan holding onto such great memories.  He also praised CD and said he would love a GNR tour but that gets ignored quickly.

And the line up changes these days would give anyone whiplash.  I know GNR has always had line up changes but the spine always remained intact.

Bootom line, let the guy have his great memories and be a fan of Chinese Democracy Guns too.

No chance Jac. Anybody who remotely makes good comments about the old band gets bashed. I think Kingaxl made many good points while being respectful to all. You can tell his responses were well thought out opinions which made some valid points. Of course most on this board wont acknowledge the good points. He never bashed the new band in his post and made it a point to say he liked CD and Nugnr. One thing he failed to mention and I know im gonna get crap for this is that by taking over the rights to the GNR name and going out and making an album under that moniker AXL shouldve expected the baggage that came with trying to live up to the past legacy. As we can all see GNR has a very passionate fanbase. I like CD. I think its a great album but the comparison to the previous band will always exist as long as he keeps calling it GNR. If everyone in Aerosmith left except Steven Tyler and he still called it Aerosmith when the band sounded nothing like Aerosmith dont you think he would get crap over it?

[Jim Bob]

This is the last time I'm going to comment for a while, then I'm just going to lay low....\

sounds like a plan  

Jim Bob, I guess you have to resort to being a tough guy to make your point.

I'm just REALLY fucking tired of the tired bullshit you post.   It got old in 2004.  (not from you in particular, the whole bitching and whining about the GnR name stuff)

You can be a fan of the new Guns, but I prefer the old Guns.

you can prefer whatever you want.   but what you are saying is that you decide what is or isn't Guns N' Roses, and to come to a GnR forum talking like that and disrespecting the band is a whole other thing..

If you were a 16, 17, or 18 year old kid in 1987 or 1988, you'd know that version of Guns was on its' way to becoming perhaps the most popular band of all-time. I'm talking bigger than Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, even THE BEATLES (yes, you read right). The buzz was unreal, and I'm proud to have been the first person I knew of to have a copy of 'Appetite'. I saw them in August of 1988 opening for Aerosmith, in Mansfield, Massachusetts- Aerosmith's home turf. Yet there were more people wearing Guns N' Roses t-shirts that night, because they saw what I saw- a band on the rise, with nothing to stand in their way. Guns N' Roses were taking over America.

good for you

I like the Chinese Democracy album, I sincerely do. I absolutely would like to see a tour happen in support of the album. Until, or UNLESS, this happens, I think Axl is shitting all over the legacy of the Guns N' Roses name.

well we all want the band to tour, but I think if you focus more on the music, and not the name, you'll realize these are stupid worries.

The name Guns N' Roses is now becoming synonymous with an album that took a ridiculous amount of time to manifest itself; the Chinese Democracy album itself, which has yielded one official radio single and no videos in the seven months since its' release; a constantly rotating carousel of musicians who leave the band as fast as they came in; a series of botched tours that have played to less than 100% capacity about 90% of the time, when the shows haven't been cancelled altogether; and a website that is embarrassingly bad- when is that official merchandise shop coming? Perhaps this is why I hang on to my memories of the 1987-1993 Guns N' Roses so closely.

I will be curious to see if all of you pro "new GN'R" supporters will be feeling the same way six months from now, when in all likelihood, there will be about as much activity and news regarding GN'R as there has been in the previous six months. Eventually, you have to move on, and that's where I feel I'm at. No disrespect to anyone who prefers GN'R today to the GN'R of twenty years ago, but at some point, you have to collectively make your voice be heard and say "Axl...WHAT THE FUCK?!"

Goodbye then.  

[Jim Bob]

No chance Jac. Anybody who remotely makes good comments about the old band gets bashed

the old band has nothing to do with the topic.. thats why they are getting shit on..

I think Kingaxl made many good points while being respectful to all.

No, not when he's trying to undermine Axl and decide who is Guns N' Roses.   Thats complete disrespect.   If you are a fan of the guy, you respect what it is.

He never bashed the new band in his post and made it a point to say he liked CD and Nugnr.

there is no such thing as 'nugnr'.   this is the part of the problem that you guys fucking come here and shit on the band with shit like this.

One thing he failed to mention and I know im gonna get crap for this is that by taking over the rights to the GNR name and going out and making an album under that moniker AXL shouldve expected the baggage that came with trying to live up to the past legacy. As we can all see GNR has a very passionate fanbase. I like CD. I think its a great album but the comparison to the previous band will always exist as long as he keeps calling it GNR. If everyone in Aerosmith left except Steven Tyler and he still called it Aerosmith when the band sounded nothing like Aerosmith dont you think he would get crap over it?

all these years later its time to either accept it as it is or fuck off.   it is what it is.

[ppbebe]

If everyone in Aerosmith left except Steven Tyler and he still called it Aerosmith when the band sounded nothing like Aerosmith dont you think he would get crap over it?

Not on a fan board that still supports Aerosmith.

I will be curious to see if all of you pro "new GN'R" supporters will be feeling the same way six months from now, when in all likelihood, there will be about as much activity and news regarding GN'R as there has been in the previous six months. Eventually, you have to move on , and that's where I feel I'm at. No disrespect to anyone who prefers GN'R today to the GN'R of twenty years ago, but at some point, you have to collectively make your voice be heard and say "Axl...WHAT THE FUCK?!"

Don't worry we even survived 2003 to 2005  

[The Catcher]

No chance Jac. Anybody who remotely makes good comments about the old band gets bashed

the old band has nothing to do with the topic.. thats why they are getting shit on..

I think Kingaxl made many good points while being respectful to all.

No, not when he's trying to undermine Axl and decide who is Guns N' Roses.   Thats complete disrespect.   If you are a fan of the guy, you respect what it is.

He never bashed the new band in his post and made it a point to say he liked CD and Nugnr.

there is no such thing as 'nugnr'.   this is the part of the problem that you guys fucking come here and shit on the band with shit like this.

One thing he failed to mention and I know im gonna get crap for this is that by taking over the rights to the GNR name and going out and making an album under that moniker AXL shouldve expected the baggage that came with trying to live up to the past legacy. As we can all see GNR has a very passionate fanbase. I like CD. I think its a great album but the comparison to the previous band will always exist as long as he keeps calling it GNR. If everyone in Aerosmith left except Steven Tyler and he still called it Aerosmith when the band sounded nothing like Aerosmith dont you think he would get crap over it?

all these years later its time to either accept it as it is or fuck off.   it is what it is.

PREACH!!!

[peter7411226]

all these years later its time to either accept it as it is or fuck off.   it is what it is.
[/quote]

Accept what? I just stated an opinion. Learn to make sense man. And if you dont agree with me dont tell me to fuck off. State something valid instead of resorting to nonsense.

[The Catcher]

all these years later its time to either accept it as it is or fuck off.   it is what it is.

Accept what? I just stated an opinion. Learn to make sense man. And if you dont agree with me dont tell me to fuck off. State something valid instead of resorting to nonsense.
[/quote]


Is it that hard to figure out? Accept the band for what it is or fuck off! To quote Tommy Stinson "Either get on board or fuck off!"
It's been ten years since the "new" Guns N' Roses first released material. Any complaints about the lack of original members should be and are completely irrelevant in 2009.

[peter7411226]

all these years later its time to either accept it as it is or fuck off.   it is what it is.

Accept what? I just stated an opinion. Learn to make sense man. And if you dont agree with me dont tell me to fuck off. State something valid instead of resorting to nonsense.

Is it that hard to figure out? Accept the band for what it is or fuck off! To quote Tommy Stinson "Either get on board or fuck off!"
It's been ten years since the "new" Guns N' Roses first released material. Any complaints about the lack of original members should be and are completely irrelevant in 2009.
[/quote]


If you read my quote I never said I didnt accept the band. The only thing I said is that by taking on the GNR moniker he exposed himself to scrutiny from people comparing them to the old band. Thats it. I dont know how that got twisted into a pro old gnr thing?

[ppbebe]

the actual quality of the music is not even close to the most important reason music sells these days

Nickelback's album is still high on the charts in the US while GNR, AC/DC and Metallica are long gone

I can promise you that is not due to the fact that Nickelback's album is better than those bands' albums

maybe we fail to understand about Nicklback, Britny, etc . 

The sales have this much to do with whether people get it or not.

This raises another question.

Do people, especially those who are too 'unbiased' for the old lineup, really understand about the past albums and the band in the first place?