What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?

[RancidPunx]

for one, not enough people have heard the album

I disagree buddy.It got like 10 million listens on Myspace the first week (something like that) and still a total of less than 600,000 (in the US) cared enough to purchase it.

You can blame Axl, say the general public has no taste,etc. but what it comes down to is lack of hits ,plain and simple. We might love The Blues,There Was A Time,etc but that doesn't mean the public feels the same. Plain and simple ,regardless of Best Buy not being as big as Wal Mart (that point is moot since GNR chose Best Buy to cover album recording costs) this album would have been a lot more popular if there was a SCOM,WTTJ,NR or YCBM type song on it.
The tens of millions of people who bought Guns albums haven't dropped off the earth,they either moved on,lost interest or didn't like what they heard enough to buy the album.

[RancidPunx]

And I understand Axl does things on his own terms and thats why I love the band..I was SIMPLY EXPLAINING WHY Green Day got so much more attention for their last record, because a few of you seem to not understand how that happened.

Green Day whored themselves out to sell a few copies big deal

They did?
Maybe they are proud of their album,as most artists would be. They play shows for their fans and do interviews to promote their work. Yeah,what whores
Other than Internet marketing, they aren't dong things Guns hasn't done 20 years ago.

I am gonna assume you were being sarcastic with that post,


Here is another factor. Outside of these boards does anyone even know who is in GNR. At one time GNR were lucky enough to have 5 marketable,well known personalities.
Hell, even Finck and Bucket fit into this category. Now, the way it is, the media pretty much wants Axl. CNN isn't banging down the door to talk to anyone else in the band.

[D]

I said from the beginning the lack of a huge crossover single cost the album as far as record sales.

this is definitely not a "Singles" album. That is in no way being negative either. This album would've been huge back when people listened to the entire thing, but we are in a single driven culture now, the 99 cent single and GNR's music isn't easy


I do agree people outside of the forums not knowing who is in the band and if there is one legitimate gripe, it is they should've done more to introduce the new members to the world at large.


the 10 million Myspace numbers are skewered because it isn't like 10 million people listened. 10 million people would mean 1 listen each and if u listened to the entire album, that is 14 listens which would drop that total down to about 700,000 people.

I know I listened at least 100 times myself. So in reality, I would say most people who heard it on Myspace did buy it. cause probably only about 50k people listened on Myspace.

I'm trying to really see stuff from a different point of view just to give the otherside of this argument a fair shot.

And yeah, I can't find any excuse for Axl not doing the normal press junket and all of that and for not releasing the "Better" Video. That is on Axl in my opinion but I don't see anyone really attacking the record label either.

Sure they gave him 13 million and 10 years or whatever, but without the record label pushing the shit out of u, u won't be successful. If the label wasn't pushing GNR to radio and using those BB profits to promote it, that is on the label and not Axl.

so it is kind of the chicken and egg thing. Did the label not promote it etc cause Axl didn't do this and that? Or did Axl not do this and that cause the label wouldn't promote it.

[freddiebrph]

And I understand Axl does things on his own terms and thats why I love the band..I was SIMPLY EXPLAINING WHY Green Day got so much more attention for their last record, because a few of you seem to not understand how that happened.

Green Day whored themselves out to sell a few copies big deal

They did?
Maybe they are proud of their album,as most artists would be. They play shows for their fans and do interviews to promote their work. Yeah,what whores
Other than Internet marketing, they aren't dong things Guns hasn't done 20 years ago.

I am gonna assume you were being sarcastic with that post,


Here is another factor. Outside of these boards does anyone even know who is in GNR. At one time GNR were lucky enough to have 5 marketable,well known personalities.
Hell, even Finck and Bucket fit into this category. Now, the way it is, the media pretty much wants Axl. CNN isn't banging down the door to talk to anyone else in the band.

Good point.  This is when it gets hard to have a serious conversation on this board.  Heaven forbid some other HUGE band's album did better.  Must be because they "whored themselves"  or "sold out".  Did anyone ever just think it was because the album was good?  GNR is my favorite band, always have been, always will be.  But I own other albums that are very good as well.  Green day have gotten better with every album. Doesnt matter if 3 people on some gnr message board think different.  The album rocks, fans are buying it, its being promoted, and songs are actually on the radio,  WOW! a band acting like a band.  That is what normal bands do, thats how they make money.  GnR used to do this also, and what was the result?  The biggest band in the world!!!!!

[younggunner]

I am gonna assume you were being sarcastic with that post,

  I was 

[ppbebe]

Outside of this board I know only a few that know who were in GNR other than Axl Rose. they also know who are in GNR.

The masses are like that.
I myself didn't know those names until i started to visit fan boards.

[Continental Drift]

The label and the artist clearly weren't on the same page when it was released- which in turn resulted in a lack-luster to non-existent marketing campaign. Throw in a skeptical general public that's been taught that GN'R is NOT GN'R w/o Slash and Duff, no tour or videos, etc. and it's AMAZING that it has done as well as it has done in the US and particulary internationally.

All that said- I think what's important is that many critics who know their music (e.g. David Fricke) really dug the album- and I am confident that in time Chinese Democracy will acquire a sort of a "Mad Genius Axl Rose's Masterpiece" type of reputation and place in rock history. The album is THAT strong MUSICALLY (most importantly) and deserves no less.

[oldgunsfan]

for one, not enough people have heard the album

I disagree buddy.It got like 10 million listens on Myspace the first week (something like that) and still a total of less than 600,000 (in the US) cared enough to purchase it.

You can blame Axl, say the general public has no taste,etc. but what it comes down to is lack of hits ,plain and simple. We might love The Blues,There Was A Time,etc but that doesn't mean the public feels the same. Plain and simple ,regardless of Best Buy not being as big as Wal Mart (that point is moot since GNR chose Best Buy to cover album recording costs) this album would have been a lot more popular if there was a SCOM,WTTJ,NR or YCBM type song on it.
The tens of millions of people who bought Guns albums haven't dropped off the earth,they either moved on,lost interest or didn't like what they heard enough to buy the album.

i think it may be the latter or perhaps, the general public didnt want to support axl

[jarmo]

the general public didnt want to support axl

With a username like yours, I'd put you on that list. 

The tens of millions of people who bought Guns albums haven't dropped off the earth,they either moved on,lost interest or didn't like what they heard enough to buy the album.

A lot of them buy what they're told to buy. That's what marketing is. Making you buy stuff you didn't think you needed/wanted.


Radio plays the songs over and over again and then they go to Walmart and there's that album by that band they hear every day in their car.

Chances are they buy it based on that one song they've kept hearing over and over again. Then they realize there's nothing else on the album that they like.


You can say that selling it exclusively at Best Buy is the same as selling it at Walmart. It's just that you choose to ignore the fact that one has more stores and sells other items besides electronics. So they get a lot of customers who aren't buying a new TV or a Blu-ray movie.


At the end do f the day, the numbers aren't as bad as some of you would like everybody to believe.

The world's biggest band (U2) sold less than 500,000 in their first week. Despite all their promotional work and despite selling it in digital format for $4. Way less than their previous album.

Bruce Springsteen, another example.

And those albums weren't exclusives to one retailer.



I doubt AC/DC would've sold all those copies without the Walmart thing. They made it an event. Everybody who entered their stores knew about it.

Was the world anticipating a new AC/DC album that much?





/jarmo

[axlroses]

I think the Bruce Springsteen was an exclusive to Wal Mart, but it did well below expectations.

[axlroses]

Here is a link to Springsteen saying it was a mistake to go with the Wal Mart deal.  I do think people have to realize that the climate in the industry has changed and the level of sales which equal a success has also changed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/30/bruce-springstreen-wal-ma_n_162652.html

[jarmo]

I think the Bruce Springsteen was an exclusive to Wal Mart, but it did well below expectations.

That was his Greatest Hits album.

Working On A Dream was not.




/jarmo

[axlroses]

Sorry my bad.

[D]

Yeah, working on a dream was everywhere. I actually bought it, hated it

[BlowUpYourVideo]

I doubt AC/DC would've sold all those copies without the Walmart thing. They made it an event. Everybody who entered their stores knew about it.

Was the world anticipating a new AC/DC album that much?

The gap between Black Ice and their last album is the longest gap between two AC/DC albums (8 years), and they're one of the most popular bands in the history of rock, so there probably was a lot of anticipation for it. Also, it wasn't exclusive to one store internationally.

I don't actually know how much it sold.....

[ppbebe]

It got like 10 million listens on Myspace the first week (something like that) and still a total of less than 600,000 (in the US) cared enough to purchase it.

3 million worldwide.
i think most of those who streamed it either purchased the album or downloaded it.  
unless it was limited to one listen an ip. fror example, 3 million multiplied by 3 or 4 might make the 10 mil listens.
not everyone uses internet tho

the general public didnt want to support axl

With a username like yours, I'd put you on that list. 

come on I don't think oldgnrfan is in the public.

so did axl run for the diet?  

[D]

I explained the 10 million listeners on the last page


if that meant 10 million people, doing simple math shows u that would mean each person only listened to 1 song.

if each person only listened to the album 1 time through that is 10 million divided by 14 which is roughly 700k people.

I alone listened at least 100 times as I am sure most people did.


So in reality, probably 50k or so made up all those listens and I am sure most of those 50k bought it.

[ppbebe]

I didn't listen to it at all. 

The theory that the listeners heard it but  didn't like it is not plausible.

[ShotgunBlues1978]

The MySpace thing is misleading at least as far as US sales because that includes worldwide hits

And worldwide, by modern standards the album sold well

#14 in worldwide sales for 2008 for a year where it was only out for 5 of 52 weeks is definitely respectable and shows that a lot of people across the globe bought the album

It's not like MySpace is limited to the US

[D]

to take another angle on this

what number was expected?

I think the AC/DC/Metallica numbers got our expectations up way too high.