What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?

[D]

I'll be the first to admit that I am selfish

I hate hearing how fucking great U2 or Green Day or all these other bands who can't hold Axl's microphone are. I hate it knowing that GNR should be getting this love and adoration and they aren't.

so yeah, I am selfish in that way.

[GypsySoul]

All I care about is the music. I'm listening to CD at this very moment. I haven't taken it out of my stereo since the morning of Nov. 23. I'm very, very happy with it. I'll still be listening to this album 50 years into the future, along with hopefully many more GNR albums that haven't been made yet. But I don't need to read a Rolling Stone interview with Axl or see a late-night appearance to enhance my enjoyment of GNR's music. Axl gave us an amazing, amazing piece of music. Hopefully he'll give us many more in the future. That's all I want. That's all I expect. Nothing else really matters.

I'm still on a major high from not only owning and listening to Chinese Democracy but also from Axl wishing us a Happy Thanksgiving!!!  

The chats and interviews were interesting to read but, IMO, that "Happy T-Day" wish was sooooooo fuckin awesome because nobody can spin that into anything else besides exactly what it was.  

[peter7411226]

I was a little kid when GNR was on top of the world, so I don't really know what kinds of promotional stuff Axl did back then. But having gone back and read all these old interviews and articles and stuff, it sounds like Axl was always a pretty private person. I've read many interviews with the original line-up, and it always seems like it was just Slash and Duff and Izzy downstairs partying, talking to the reporter/journalist, while Axl is upstairs in his room. And when he did talk, it was usually with someone he was comfortable with, like Kurt Loder, for example. And Axl occasionally had his rants and stuff, but generally he seemed like more of a withdrawn kind of guy even back then. So I don't understand why some people in this thread are making it out like Axl was going around just begging people to interview him back in the day. He's always been like this. Nothing's really changed.

Plus, when he did come on here and talk to us and gave a few interviews earlier in the year, I remember seeing you guys say stuff like "Oh, I liked it better when Axl was private," so make up your damn minds. You complain when you don't hear from him. Then you complain when you do.

And unless you just recently got into GNR, you should be used to the lack of communication and updates. Personally, I don't want Axl to suddenly make a Twitter account and start writing in his own daily blog. I think the majority of celebrities--- be it actors or musicians or whatever--- talk too damn much anyway. It often makes me lose respect for them. I don't want to see Axl pop up in a commercial on TV holding a copy of CD in his hand while smiling and giving a thumbs-up. I didn't want to see Axl suddenly show up and mentor the American Idol cast.

All I care about is the music. I'm listening to CD at this very moment. I haven't taken it out of my stereo since the morning of Nov. 23. I'm very, very happy with it. I'll still be listening to this album 50 years into the future, along with hopefully many more GNR albums that haven't been made yet. But I don't need to read a Rolling Stone interview with Axl or see a late-night appearance to enhance my enjoyment of GNR's music. Axl gave us an amazing, amazing piece of music. Hopefully he'll give us many more in the future. That's all I want. That's all I expect. Nothing else really matters.

Again though, its really cool that you have that positive opinion.   But some people would like Axl and GNR to be the biggest band in the world and they're not wrong for wanting that.  Nobody is asking him to create a twitter account but putting the name out there wouldnt hurt.  We all want Axl to continue making music but that will be more difficult if he isn't into promoting it.  he won't be giving 13 odd million again by a record company with these sales and lack of promotion.  Remember, recording albums is a business, and everyone involved wants to make profit.  So sometimes you just gotta swallow your pride and do things even if you arent comfortable with it, like media and shit that will help to sell it.

I agree with everything said except the swallowing your pride. When you sign on the dotted line you know what your getting yourself into and whats expected of you. Its like an athlete: you give him a contract and you expect him to produce. Labels spend alot of money ( moreso on this band) and while they help with the promotion it is up to the band to do everything possible to make it a success.

[younggunner]

Wrong. He did interviews too.

He was at the MTV VMAs presenting the Killers...

All these things you want from him.

Heres how you properly promote an album:
.Rolling Stone cover and interview
2.The Tonight Show with Conan OBrien
3."Secret" fan club shows for fans where they played the album in its entirety.
4.Album signing at best buy in NYC the day the album came out for 500 fans.
5. The Late Show with David Letterman
6. 5 straight nights on Carson Daly's show
7.Several magazine covers and interviews including AP and other widely read magazines.
8. A FREE concert in Central Park in NYC for the "Good Morning America" concert series attended by thousands and seen by millions.
9.Music videos, including live performance promo videos on Myspace and other networking sites.
10. Booked a world tour,with actual dates, that will actually happen.
11.A whole new line of merchandise at Hot Topic and other similar stores.
12. A coinciding release of their "Bullet in a Bible" Dvd on Blu-ray
13 Contributed a new single to the new "Transformers" movie.
14. Performances and interviews on SEVERAL radio stations across America.
15. Played a show in a PC Richards electronic store in Manhattan

making an appearance and doing some obscure interviews 2 yrs before your album comes out does nothing to help sell the album

Somebody already pointed out a clip where Metallica is doing radio IDs and not exactly looking all that interested.

Nice try.

I guess you think all these rock bands really enjoy doing TV commercials and stuff?

Did you hear them say so? I mean, many of them hate doing videos, but commercials are fun?

It's like many Formula 1 drivers. They have to do a lot of promotional stuff for their sponsors. They love driving the cars and racing, the other stuff they could do without. I'm sure some of them love it.

So I'm sure some musicians (rock bands) love going on talk shows and doing commercials, but I'm also sure there's a bunch who hate it. And since they don't wanna upset those that pay the bills, they keep their mouth shut and keep doing it.

In life there are things you never like to do but you have to do it anyway. Bands usually work and fight for their latest effort. Whether they enjoy it or not they stick it out.

Axl obviously doesnt have to do it if he hates it that much, but when promoters dont want to promote him and labels dont want to fund him, I really hope we dont hear him or you blaming them when the proper funds for any future recording and or promotion isnt there

Does it make you feel better?

not at all

You list three possible reasons and yet you only blame Axl. How surprising!

I said its a combination of the three. But it ultimately falls on Axl.

Comparing GN'R to a grotesque woman.... Boy, you must be desperate.

Not desperate at all. The grotesque women represents your expectations. You choose to settle.

As a Mets fan, you should be used to not expecting any World Series coming your way....

Yep all the teams I root for blow, and the only artist I have ever had any interest in cant get out of his own way. So yes, my life is a nightmare!!!!

What do you come across as when all you do is whine and blame Axl for shit you know nothing about?

Happy?

All I know is that Axl decided not to mend old wounds, carry on with the gnr name, do a few tours, and only put out one album in over a decade.

But lets not blame Axl. He doesnt own and run the Gnr name

[gilld1]

Quote from: gilld1 on Today at 11:48:08 AM
So Jarmo, if a person gets on here and has high expectations for things such a a tour, a little press, some TV appearances they are ungrateful and delusional types fans?



Not necessarily.

But I've seen people expect GN'R to do all kinds of things. It's like, if you know anything about their past, you wouldn't expect these things.




Quote from: gilld1 on Today at 11:48:08 AM
If any of us on here had a girl/boy friend that treated us like Axl does his fans, would any of us stay with that person for very long?


Is that the kind of relationship you have with your favorite bands/artists?


I'll play along, and say what I've said numerous times: If GN'R makes you so damn unhappy, why not find something that makes you happier?





Nice to see some of the older fans remember how things were back in the day.

Seems like some of the younger fans don't realize that GN'R has always been doing things on their terms.





/jarmo
 
 
? Last Edit: Today at 11:54:48 AM by jarmo ?  Report to moderator    Logged  
 
It isn't about unhappiness with the band for me.  It's about frustration.  It's rock n roll not rocket science but with Axl it seems to turn into rocket science.  It doesn't take a genius to do it.  

As an older fan on here, I do remember how they did it back in the day.  I remember all the videos, the interviews in RIP or Hit Parader, tours, appearances on the Headbangers Ball, etc.  They used to do all the things that people are complaining about them not doing now.  It's part of the game.  You are right in that they did it their way back in the 80s and early 90s.  That way was showing up for the interview or whatever loaded but they still did the interview.

[GypsySoul]

...it is up to the band to do everything possible to make it a success.

What makes you think that the band doesn't think that it IS a success?? 

[jarmo]

How do we all know that GNR isn't still planning on doing some things to promote the CD? Maybe they aren't like everyone else who does it right away. Maybe they are taking a different approach.

We don't.

But people want to know!  

As an older fan on here, I do remember how they did it back in the day.  I remember all the videos, the interviews in RIP or Hit Parader, tours, appearances on the Headbangers Ball, etc.  They used to do all the things that people are complaining about them not doing now.  It's part of the game.  You are right in that they did it their way back in the 80s and early 90s.  That way was showing up for the interview or whatever loaded but they still did the interview.

You might also remember that Axl let the others do a lot of the interviews on the Use Your Illusion tour.

Heres how you properly promote an album:

Maybe you can go follow that band?

In life there are things you never liek to do but you have to do it anyway.

Yes, and then there are those that simply don't.

There are people who do something to break free from their unhappy existence.

Move, get a different job, change their career, get a divorce etc. etc.

Axl obviously doesnt have to do it if he hates it that much, but when promoters dont want to promote him, labels dont want to fund him, I really hope we dont hear him or you blaming them when they try to record and promote a future album.

Did you ever think that maybe that's why he doesn't like doing things?

Maybe he doesn't hate interviews, but hates the fact that everything gets twisted around?

Maybe he doesn't hate promoting his album, but hates the fact that the record company is clueless?

Not desperate at all. The grotesque women represents your expectations. You choose to settle.

Using that analogy, you're drooling over pictures of supermodels. You want to hang out with them because others do it.

The so called "grotesque women" don't want anything to do with you because you can never be happy with what you have.

All I know is that Axl decided not to mend old wounds, carry on with the gnr name, and only put out one album in over a decade.

But lets not blame Axl. He doesnt own and run the Gnr name

This is the difference between the real fans and others.....

The others are quick to blame Axl for everything. They side with the journalists, the promoters, the record label, basically anybody who says the opposite of what Axl says.

Then they get annoyed or offended when Tommy says "get on board or fuck off!". Priceless.


It basically comes down to one simple thing. What kind of crowd do you want to be surrounded by?

Those who constantly find faults and things to complain about or those who can enjoy the moment?

Many of you seem happy to attend a party where the majority of guests are telling the host that the party sucks. But get upset when the host tells you to fuck off.




/jarmo

[PolarBearWitchHead]

nothing wrong with asking your favorite band for more and more material.  it's a compliment!  i mean that's how we got Lies

[D]

I liked those last two paragraphs Jarmo...... I must say, I never looked at it like that.

[peter7411226]

...it is up to the band to do everything possible to make it a success.

What makes you think that the band doesn't think that it IS a success?? 

This album had the potential of being one of the biggest albums of all time. It had the built in hype with the wait and the aura and mystique of Axl thrown in. People worked very hard on this album for 10-13 yrs. Do you honestly think that after all that and the less than spectacular sales that the band thinks its a success? Im a fan of all of the incarnations of GNR......it really wouldve been nice for this album to have been given the proper release it deserved.

[younggunner]

There are people who do something to break free from their unhappy existence.

When/if Axl comes out and says he despises those things then Ill change my opinion on that.

Did you ever think that maybe that's why he doesn't like doing things?

Maybe he doesn't hate interviews, but hates the fact that everything gets twisted around?

Maybe he doesn't hate promoting his album, but hates the fact that the record company is clueless?

So for 10+ yrs he couldnt come up with some sort of solution to curtail all that?

This is the difference between the real fans and others.....

The others are quick to blame Axl for everything. They side with the journalists, the promoters, the record label, basically anybody who says the opposite of what Axl says.

Then they get annoyed or offended when Tommy says "get on board or fuck off!". Priceless.


It basically comes down to one simple thing. What kind of crowd do you want to be surrounded by?

Those who constantly find faults and things to complain about or those who can enjoy the moment?

Many of you seem happy to attend a party where the majority of guests are telling the host that the party sucks. But get upset when the host tells you to fuck off.

here we go again...we will have to agree that we just disagree on this whole fan vs non fan thing

[slashsbaconpit]

First, let me say I agree. I think the album is both groundbreaking and traditionally great at the same time. One of the greatest albums I've ever heard, no shit! It's brilliant.

However, let me also say I agree with the promotion thing. The press isn't going to give shit about your album if you're not willing to talk about it. If you're not touring, appearing on Conan and Letterman, SNL, giving interviews out, they just aren't going to do much with it. As a professional journalist myself, I'm hear to tell you I get shit everyday from people promoting books, CDs and even independent films with offers of interviews and press packets and whatever else. I can't, nor would I, just write a piece talking about how "super duper" CD is based on just the album alone. That's for reviewers, but after the initial reviews, if there's no reason to keep talking about it, you're not going to.
With CD, it was released, and the band and Axl were silent. No tour, no interviews, no guest spots on SNL, no MTV appearances, no videos, very little promotion, sold only at one store that's not found in a lot of places ... From the perspective of those in the press, if you promote the hell out of something, and offer interviews and are proactive, the press is going to help you out and do something on it.
However, if they have to try and get it from you, it's going to be a hard sell because everyone else is being proactive. If they have to try and drag an interview out of someone who is notoriously private and known for being nearly impossible to get an interview from, then they're  not going to do anything with your CD, not matter how brilliant they may personally think it is.

If Axl was out there pimping this thing on interviews and personal appearances and such, then yeah, they'd be a lot more buzz about it. However, he made the decision not to for whatever reason. Maybe he doesn't want to prostitute himself that way, maybe sales numbers don't mean anything to him, maybe he just doesn't give a shit about being the biggest rock star on the planet, who the hell knows? Only Axl. He's much to intelligent to not know that being silent is suicide for album promotion, so he obviously made a choice. This is what he wants to do.

All we can do is be thankful we got what we got. And it's pretty damn great.

[D]

Remember back in Chicago 92 where Axl talks about being a macho rock n roller and how that shit doesn't work for him anymore?

maybe he enjoys his privacy and he has found a mix of the best of both worlds and doesn't want to give that up.

[Bitch Slap Rappin]

What it really comes down to (and I think I said this before on a different thread) is for Axl to go out and perform with the right musicians who are going to support him and believe in the new CD.) That's all. He has nothing else to prove accept to bring the music live on stage. If nobody knew of Axl than I'd say yes he needs to to numerious interviews; videos and plaster himself all over the planet. Green day has to do that because (and I'm sorry to say this so Green day fans please except my apologies) they suck!!! You can't compare Green Day to G&R. Green Day is a band who are puppets for their record company and management.
Granted as far as a little more promoting for this cd might help. But Axl is not that kind of artists. He is a live performer and if he can some how get the right band together that wants to do this cd because they love it and they respect Axl from where he is coming from than it can happen.
Hiring professional musicians to come in because they are their to do a job and get paid is not going to cut it. I'm sure Axl knows this. Plus the musicians have to be a part of Axls team.
I already know that if he can obtain this, everything else is trivial. Because when the concert is over and the following day the newspapers read: "The new G&R  floors the audience and critiques....all the current news that we are discussing will be long forgotten.  

A word to the wise. As soon as you sign a contract with a record label you become a puppet for the record company. Let me ask you a question: If a record company invests X amount of money into your project shouldnt you be responsible for helping make sure that its a success?

Yeah if you are a nobody and it's a debut cd. But in the case of G&R at this point of their career (or should I say Axl) all he has to do is tour. Nothing else. Plus he made a killer cd.
If (as I stated before) or let's say if I was just signed. Yes I would have to go through the whole nine yards. But Axl......all he has to do is get up onstage and open his mouth and sing!!!!!! 

But touring is part of the promotion. Artists tour to promote something for the most part.

I agree with you. But that is all he really needs to do.  

[jarmo]

So for 10+ yrs he couldnt come up with some sort of solution to curtail all that?

I guess in your mind Axl sits and makes promotional strategies.

It's obvious for anybody who reads that the focus was to get the album finished and released.

here we go again...we will have to agree that we just disagree on this whole fan vs non fan thing

Of course.

There are those who stick by the band and support them through everything. And then there are those who keep whining and when somebody says something then it's "we love you!".

Five minutes later, it's back to the whining.

These are the so called "real fans" who are "concerned". The same ones who get annoyed when somebody in the band or around the band speaks out.


Many people's idea of a fan site is different from mine. Fair enough.

I never understood the obsession with negativity. I never understood why you have to go to a fan site and read about how much that band sucks.

I assumed the idea was to get away from that and "hang out" with people who do get it. Who do support the band.


Then you ave the whole "objectivity" thing. Who says fans need to be objective? It seems like this was something made up by people whose biggest fear is to be considered "uncool" on the fucking Internet.

When I read comments on an album or concert by fans of that artist, I don't care about objectivity. If I want that, there's other places to look for it.

I don't go "oh, that person's opinion isn't valid because she's a fan!". Instead I'm happy that this person is excited and enjoyed the album/show/whatever.

It just seems like some people have this automatic reflex to find something negative in everything, just so that we all think they're "objective". That way they can keep appearing cool on the Internet in front of total strangers that they might never meet in real life. Because as we all know, that is the most important thing.





/jarmo

[peter7411226]

What it really comes down to (and I think I said this before on a different thread) is for Axl to go out and perform with the right musicians who are going to support him and believe in the new CD.) That's all. He has nothing else to prove accept to bring the music live on stage. If nobody knew of Axl than I'd say yes he needs to to numerious interviews; videos and plaster himself all over the planet. Green day has to do that because (and I'm sorry to say this so Green day fans please except my apologies) they suck!!! You can't compare Green Day to G&R. Green Day is a band who are puppets for their record company and management.
Granted as far as a little more promoting for this cd might help. But Axl is not that kind of artists. He is a live performer and if he can some how get the right band together that wants to do this cd because they love it and they respect Axl from where he is coming from than it can happen.
Hiring professional musicians to come in because they are their to do a job and get paid is not going to cut it. I'm sure Axl knows this. Plus the musicians have to be a part of Axls team.
I already know that if he can obtain this, everything else is trivial. Because when the concert is over and the following day the newspapers read: "The new G&R  floors the audience and critiques....all the current news that we are discussing will be long forgotten.  

A word to the wise. As soon as you sign a contract with a record label you become a puppet for the record company. Let me ask you a question: If a record company invests X amount of money into your project shouldnt you be responsible for helping make sure that its a success?

Yeah if you are a nobody and it's a debut cd. But in the case of G&R at this point of their career (or should I say Axl) all he has to do is tour. Nothing else. Plus he made a killer cd.
If (as I stated before) or let's say if I was just signed. Yes I would have to go through the whole nine yards. But Axl......all he has to do is get up onstage and open his mouth and sing!!!!!! 

But touring is part of the promotion. Artists tour to promote something for the most part.

I agree with you. But that is all he really needs to do.  

But he's not doing it. The album came out in november. Usually bands will start touring around the release of the album.

[Bitch Slap Rappin]

Well perhaps there is something going on with the business side that is preventing the tour.
Or who ever is in the band now are not cutting it with the new material. 

[peter7411226]

So for 10+ yrs he couldnt come up with some sort of solution to curtail all that?

I guess in your mind Axl sits and makes promotional strategies.

It's obvious for anybody who reads that the focus was to get the album finished and released.

here we go again...we will have to agree that we just disagree on this whole fan vs non fan thing

Of course.

There are those who stick by the band and support them through everything. And then there are those who keep whining and when somebody says something then it's "we love you!".

Five minutes later, it's back to the whining.

These are the so called "real fans" who are "concerned". The same ones who get annoyed when somebody in the band or around the band speaks out.


Many people's idea of a fan site is different from mine. Fair enough.

I never understood the obsession with negativity. I never understood why you have to go to a fan site and read about how much that band sucks.

I assumed the idea was to get away from that and "hang out" with people who do get it. Who do support the band.


Then you ave the whole "objectivity" thing. Who says fans need to be objective? It seems like this was something made up by people whose biggest fear is to be considered "uncool" on the fucking Internet.

When I read comments on an album or concert by fans of that artist, I don't care about objectivity. If I want that, there's other places to look for it.

I don't go "oh, that person's opinion isn't valid because she's a fan!". Instead I'm happy that this person is excited and enjoyed the album/show/whatever.

It just seems like some people have this automatic reflex to find something negative in everything, just so that we all think they're "objective". That way they can keep appearing cool on the Internet in front of total strangers that they might never meet in real life. Because as we all know, that is the most important thing.





/jarmo

But I dont think questioning certain things (strategies , marketing etc. ) makes you negative. I know that any material that I and my band release will be open to interpretation. Some people will like it some wont. But thats the nature of the biz. I dont want yes people around me. I dont want people telling me that the sun shines out of my ass. Its unhealthy. I accept criticism. It keeps people grounded. Its not negativity. Its people who care about your art and would like nothing but the best for it.

[jarmo]

But I dont think questioning certain things (strategies , marketing etc. ) makes you negative.

But when you got the answer and still go on about it, one can't but help to wonder why?



/jarmo

[peter7411226]

But I dont think questioning certain things (strategies , marketing etc. ) makes you negative.

But when you got the answer and still go on about it, one can't but help to wonder why?



/jarmo

Whats the answer? Maybe I missed it?