What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?

[jarmo]

Axl always tried to push GN'R "forward", you'd agree?

He released the album.

These fans who want to "push the band forward" were already asking about the next one weeks after its release.

though in some points that might be ok to say but it gets twisted way too fast with any talking being a little critically to things GN'R do or -more accurate- GN'R dont do. and when going back 2-3 years back exspecially with the setlist the "Axl defenders" are on thin ice, and thats surely not the "ic(e)"ing on the cake!

The point was, when you get your so called bonus, the live shows (something I was happy/excited about and enjoyed every one), some felt the need to find something to complain about.

To me that's like being hungry and then getting a great meal, and just trying desperately to find something to complain about.

I just can't relate to that thinking.

Same goes for everything else in the GN'R world. Some have to find something they don't like in everything.





/jarmo

[jacdaniel]

This argument is again coming down to what kind of fan people are.

If, like Jarmo, you are happy that the album is released and you have the music you've been waiting for and anything else is like "icing on the cake", well then that is fine.  its a positive attitude to have.

If you want GNR to be the biggest, best selling artists in the world again, well thats also fine.  Although perhaps in times like these, you'll feel a little more negative about things.

Either way, i think everyone has the best of intentions for Axl, even if portrayed in completely different ways.  

[D]

Sometimes I think Axl worries more about the negative people than the positive ones that support the band.

The hell with the people u can't please. Ignore them.

[peter7411226]

Sometimes I think Axl worries more about the negative people than the positive ones that support the band.

The hell with the people u can't please. Ignore them.

If he worries about negative people then he's in the wrong industry.

[D]

Axl always tried to push GN'R "forward", you'd agree?

He released the album.

These fans who want to "push the band forward" were already asking about the next one weeks after its release.








/jarmo

To be fair, a lot of that was due to stuff Sebastian had said and other things that had came out about another album almost being ready to go... It was a while back, so i don't remember exactly, but I know I asked that question on the chats but it wasn't intended in a bad, i am not pleased way.

[jarmo]

This argument is again coming down to what kind of fan people are.

If, like Jarmo, you are happy that the album is released and you have the music you've been waiting for and anything else is like "icing on the cake", well then that is fine.  its a positive attitude to have.

If you want GNR to be the biggest, best selling artists in the world again, well thats also fine.  Although perhaps in times like these, you'll feel a little more negative about things.

For me, being the first kind doesn't exclude the second.

I want them to be the biggest band in the world. Of course.



But the difference is, I don't think you'll achieve that by whining about what GN'R isn't doing.

There's two kinds of people. Those that try to help/support, and those who don't.

It's very apparent every time there's a positive thread here. Certain posters stay out of them or post just to ridicule the initiative.






/jarmo

[jacdaniel]

For me, being the first kind doesn't exclude the second.

I want them to be the biggest band in the world. Of course.



But the difference is, I don't think you'll achieve that by whining about what GN'R isn't doing.

There's two kinds of people. Those that try to help/support, and those who don't.

It's very apparent every time there's a positive thread here. Certain posters stay out of them or post just to ridicule the initiative.

Im gonna try and stay on the fence here lol, i admire your attitude but at the same time, I understand how some people feel better to get stuff off their chests.  I apologise to all as i couldnt join the "positive" thread about the twitter requests.  I only log onto this site while in work so I can type quick comments but cant listen to radio an stuff 

but i do think that most people have the best of intentions for Axl on this site but just portray them very differently.

[younggunner]

Oh, because in 2006 everybody loved Axl?

Touring will not change peoples perception of Axl. So Im not sure what your trying to get at when you mention 2006.

I'm giving you examples of what others do just to promote their albums while not necessarily enjoying it.

I did not say you want Axl to be on reality TV. Get it? Stop twisting my words already!

no, you havnt given me any examples actually. I keep asking you to name rock acts who put in the actual work but have stated they rather not do it. You have failed to come up with anything...so keep twisting away

Funny how Axl gave you an answer to that months ago.

Axl has said a lot of things....not much has come to fruition

The ball has been dropped. If you say otherwise then your not calling it like it is

So poor you expected something that wasn't intended by the band.

As usual, blame the band for things you made up in your own head.....

Its not poor me. Im not blaming the band for anything. Its not the bands fault. its Axls fault.

If Axl wants to move on from the past and move foward with the GNR name then he has to do just that. He has had years to conjure up and EXECUTE a comeback plan. He has failed miserably at that part of the process. Hence his public perception has remained the same or has worsened. hence the title of this thread.

Everytime we here from him, its generally about how things havnt fell into place or there has been some change in plans. Why cant for just one dam time things go smooth? Is it the system? Bad luck? or maybe a good part of it is Axl? Its all 3 my friend.

I don't expect a lot from my favorite artists. I'm happy if they put out music that I enjoy listening to. If they do more than that, it's a bonus. It's like icing on the cake.

I don't need interviews, live shows, Twitter updates, Youtube clips, talk show appearances etc. to enjoy the music.

Thats you. If you want to have no expectations that your choice. So I guess you prefer grotesque women so you wont be dissappointed with rejection from a semi descent or hot chick? That a great way to live!
Or try telling people in NY or Boston to just root for their teams and be happy with a mediocre season. couple nice wins but nothing big. And say if they make the playoffs or win the chip that its icing on the cake. Youll get weird looks and laughed all the way back to belgium

Of course everyone is happy with the music. But again, 100% of the people here have always thought that once CD was released Axl would be back again. World domination or not, he would be out there doing his thing showing, telling, etc why GNR 2000whatever should be accepted as GNR.
Instead he continues with the stop and go negative approach.

Just like its your right to have no expectations for your fav band, the majority of people who live in reality have high expectations of their fav bands, teams, etc. Just like someone mentioned that both sides arent wrong. Its your choice. But dont come across as if people who have expectations are just whiners and not grateful for the crumbs they get.

People have become numb to this situation. The situation has forced them to take the take whatever crumb they give us approach.

And if Axl doesnt want to put in the time and effort into the other side of the BUSINESS(remember this is a business) then thats cool too. But come out and say it.

Until he does something, in my mind, he comes across as someone who is lost and doesnt exactely know what he wants out of this whole situation or how to move foward.

[peter7411226]

Oh, because in 2006 everybody loved Axl?

Touring will not change peoples perception of Axl. So Im not sure what your trying to get at when you mention 2006.

I'm giving you examples of what others do just to promote their albums while not necessarily enjoying it.

I did not say you want Axl to be on reality TV. Get it? Stop twisting my words already!

no, you havnt given me any examples actually. I keep asking you to name rock acts who put in the actual work but have stated they rather not do it. You have failed to come up with anything...so keep twisting away

Funny how Axl gave you an answer to that months ago.

Axl has said a lot of things....not much has come to fruition

The ball has been dropped. If you say otherwise then your not calling it like it is

So poor you expected something that wasn't intended by the band.

As usual, blame the band for things you made up in your own head.....

Its not poor me. Im not blaming the band for anything. Its not the bands fault. its Axls fault.

If Axl wants to move on from the past and move foward with the GNR name then he has to do just that. He has had years to conjure up and EXECUTE a comeback plan. He has failed miserably at that part of the process. Hence his public perception has remained the same or has worsened. hence the title of this thread.

Everytime we here from him, its generally about how things havnt fell into place or there has been some change in plans. Why cant for just one dam time things go smooth? Is it the system? Bad luck? or maybe a good part of it is Axl? Its all 3 my friend.

I don't expect a lot from my favorite artists. I'm happy if they put out music that I enjoy listening to. If they do more than that, it's a bonus. It's like icing on the cake.

I don't need interviews, live shows, Twitter updates, Youtube clips, talk show appearances etc. to enjoy the music.

Thats you. If you want to have no expectations that your choice. So I guess you prefer grotesque women so you wont be dissappointed with rejection from a semi descent or hot chick? That a great way to live!
Or try telling people in NY or Boston to just root for their teams and be happy with a mediocre season. couple nice wins but nothing big. And say if they make the playoffs or win the chip that its icing on the cake. Youll get weird looks and laughed all the way back to belgium

Of course everyone is happy with the music. But again, 100% of the people here have always thought that once CD was released Axl would be back again. World domination or not, he would be out there doing his thing showing, telling, etc why GNR 2000whatever should be accepted as GNR.
Instead he continues with the stop and go negative approach.

Just like its your right to have no expectations for your fav band, the majority of people who live in reality have high expectations of their fav bands, teams, etc. Just like someone mentioned that both sides arent wrong. Its your choice. But dont come across as if people who have expectations are just whiners and not grateful for the crumbs they get.

People have become numb to this situation. The situation has forced them to take the take whatever crumb they give us approach.

And if Axl doesnt want to put in the time and effort into the other side of the BUSINESS(remember this is a business) then thats cool too. But come out and say it.

Until he does something, in my mind, he comes across as someone who is lost and doesnt exactely know what he wants out of this whole situation or how to move foward.

Great post!!

[jacdaniel]

Just like someone mentioned that both sides arent wrong. Its your choice.

That was me 
And no, you're not wrong for having high expectations from GNR, we all have.
Sometimes I feel the same and just wish that I could even see them put in an effort to be the best.
Ultimately, its Axl's choice wheter he wants that or not.  I honestly don't think we'll ever see Axl doing much in the media though.

[gilee7]

I was a little kid when GNR was on top of the world, so I don't really know what kinds of promotional stuff Axl did back then. But having gone back and read all these old interviews and articles and stuff, it sounds like Axl was always a pretty private person. I've read many interviews with the original line-up, and it always seems like it was just Slash and Duff and Izzy downstairs partying, talking to the reporter/journalist, while Axl is upstairs in his room. And when he did talk, it was usually with someone he was comfortable with, like Kurt Loder, for example. And Axl occasionally had his rants and stuff, but generally he seemed like more of a withdrawn kind of guy even back then. So I don't understand why some people in this thread are making it out like Axl was going around just begging people to interview him back in the day. He's always been like this. Nothing's really changed.

Plus, when he did come on here and talk to us and gave a few interviews earlier in the year, I remember seeing you guys say stuff like "Oh, I liked it better when Axl was private," so make up your damn minds. You complain when you don't hear from him. Then you complain when you do.

And unless you just recently got into GNR, you should be used to the lack of communication and updates. Personally, I don't want Axl to suddenly make a Twitter account and start writing in his own daily blog. I think the majority of celebrities--- be it actors or musicians or whatever--- talk too damn much anyway. It often makes me lose respect for them. I don't want to see Axl pop up in a commercial on TV holding a copy of CD in his hand while smiling and giving a thumbs-up. I didn't want to see Axl suddenly show up and mentor the American Idol cast.

All I care about is the music. I'm listening to CD at this very moment. I haven't taken it out of my stereo since the morning of Nov. 23. I'm very, very happy with it. I'll still be listening to this album 50 years into the future, along with hopefully many more GNR albums that haven't been made yet. But I don't need to read a Rolling Stone interview with Axl or see a late-night appearance to enhance my enjoyment of GNR's music. Axl gave us an amazing, amazing piece of music. Hopefully he'll give us many more in the future. That's all I want. That's all I expect. Nothing else really matters.

[Bitch Slap Rappin]

I was a little kid when GNR was on top of the world, so I don't really know what kinds of promotional stuff Axl did back then. But having gone back and read all these old interviews and articles and stuff, it sounds like Axl was always a pretty private person. I've read many interviews with the original line-up, and it always seems like it was just Slash and Duff and Izzy downstairs partying, talking to the reporter/journalist, while Axl is upstairs in his room. And when he did talk, it was usually with someone he was comfortable with, like Kurt Loder, for example. And Axl occasionally had his rants and stuff, but generally he seemed like more of a withdrawn kind of guy even back then. So I don't understand why some people in this thread are making it out like Axl was going around just begging people to interview him back in the day. He's always been like this. Nothing's really changed.

Plus, when he did come on here and talk to us and gave a few interviews earlier in the year, I remember seeing you guys say stuff like "Oh, I liked it better when Axl was private," so make up your damn minds. You complain when you don't hear from him. Then you complain when you do.

And unless you just recently got into GNR, you should be used to the lack of communication and updates. Personally, I don't want Axl to suddenly make a Twitter account and start writing in his own daily blog. I think the majority of celebrities--- be it actors or musicians or whatever--- talk too damn much anyway. It often makes me lose respect for them. I don't want to see Axl pop up in a commercial on TV holding a copy of CD in his hand while smiling and giving a thumbs-up. I didn't want to see Axl suddenly show up and mentor the American Idol cast.

All I care about is the music. I'm listening to CD at this very moment. I haven't taken it out of my stereo since the morning of Nov. 23. I'm very, very happy with it. I'll still be listening to this album 50 years into the future, along with hopefully many more GNR albums that haven't been made yet. But I don't need to read a Rolling Stone interview with Axl or see a late-night appearance to enhance my enjoyment of GNR's music. Axl gave us an amazing, amazing piece of music. Hopefully he'll give us many more in the future. That's all I want. That's all I expect. Nothing else really matters.

Excellent!!!!!!! 

[jacdaniel]

I was a little kid when GNR was on top of the world, so I don't really know what kinds of promotional stuff Axl did back then. But having gone back and read all these old interviews and articles and stuff, it sounds like Axl was always a pretty private person. I've read many interviews with the original line-up, and it always seems like it was just Slash and Duff and Izzy downstairs partying, talking to the reporter/journalist, while Axl is upstairs in his room. And when he did talk, it was usually with someone he was comfortable with, like Kurt Loder, for example. And Axl occasionally had his rants and stuff, but generally he seemed like more of a withdrawn kind of guy even back then. So I don't understand why some people in this thread are making it out like Axl was going around just begging people to interview him back in the day. He's always been like this. Nothing's really changed.

Plus, when he did come on here and talk to us and gave a few interviews earlier in the year, I remember seeing you guys say stuff like "Oh, I liked it better when Axl was private," so make up your damn minds. You complain when you don't hear from him. Then you complain when you do.

And unless you just recently got into GNR, you should be used to the lack of communication and updates. Personally, I don't want Axl to suddenly make a Twitter account and start writing in his own daily blog. I think the majority of celebrities--- be it actors or musicians or whatever--- talk too damn much anyway. It often makes me lose respect for them. I don't want to see Axl pop up in a commercial on TV holding a copy of CD in his hand while smiling and giving a thumbs-up. I didn't want to see Axl suddenly show up and mentor the American Idol cast.

All I care about is the music. I'm listening to CD at this very moment. I haven't taken it out of my stereo since the morning of Nov. 23. I'm very, very happy with it. I'll still be listening to this album 50 years into the future, along with hopefully many more GNR albums that haven't been made yet. But I don't need to read a Rolling Stone interview with Axl or see a late-night appearance to enhance my enjoyment of GNR's music. Axl gave us an amazing, amazing piece of music. Hopefully he'll give us many more in the future. That's all I want. That's all I expect. Nothing else really matters.

Again though, its really cool that you have that positive opinion.   But some people would like Axl and GNR to be the biggest band in the world and they're not wrong for wanting that.  Nobody is asking him to create a twitter account but putting the name out there wouldnt hurt.  We all want Axl to continue making music but that will be more difficult if he isn't into promoting it.  he won't be giving 13 odd million again by a record company with these sales and lack of promotion.  Remember, recording albums is a business, and everyone involved wants to make profit.  So sometimes you just gotta swallow your pride and do things even if you arent comfortable with it, like media and shit that will help to sell it.

[younggunner]

I was a little kid when GNR was on top of the world, so I don't really know what kinds of promotional stuff Axl did back then. But having gone back and read all these old interviews and articles and stuff, it sounds like Axl was always a pretty private person. I've read many interviews with the original line-up, and it always seems like it was just Slash and Duff and Izzy downstairs partying, talking to the reporter/journalist, while Axl is upstairs in his room. And when he did talk, it was usually with someone he was comfortable with, like Kurt Loder, for example. And Axl occasionally had his rants and stuff, but generally he seemed like more of a withdrawn kind of guy even back then. So I don't understand why some people in this thread are making it out like Axl was going around just begging people to interview him back in the day. He's always been like this. Nothing's really changed.

Plus, when he did come on here and talk to us and gave a few interviews earlier in the year, I remember seeing you guys say stuff like "Oh, I liked it better when Axl was private," so make up your damn minds. You complain when you don't hear from him. Then you complain when you do.

And unless you just recently got into GNR, you should be used to the lack of communication and updates. Personally, I don't want Axl to suddenly make a Twitter account and start writing in his own daily blog. I think the majority of celebrities--- be it actors or musicians or whatever--- talk too damn much anyway. It often makes me lose respect for them. I don't want to see Axl pop up in a commercial on TV holding a copy of CD in his hand while smiling and giving a thumbs-up. I didn't want to see Axl suddenly show up and mentor the American Idol cast.

All I care about is the music. I'm listening to CD at this very moment. I haven't taken it out of my stereo since the morning of Nov. 23. I'm very, very happy with it. I'll still be listening to this album 50 years into the future, along with hopefully many more GNR albums that haven't been made yet. But I don't need to read a Rolling Stone interview with Axl or see a late-night appearance to enhance my enjoyment of GNR's music. Axl gave us an amazing, amazing piece of music. Hopefully he'll give us many more in the future. That's all I want. That's all I expect. Nothing else really matters.

excellent post and there are many points that I agree with and respect.

But you cant dispute the fact that Axl was the the driving force behind all of those elaborate videos. I dont think anyone here is asking Axl to become a media whore.

[D]

Gilee that is a good post but once again, its kind of one extreme or the other.

I don't want Axl to go on reality TV or do TV commercials or what have you. But u can be active and not do all that stuff.


Here is my problem with all of this:

CD was the most anticipated, most talked about CD of all time. We are talking 10 years of work. We heard how this thing wouldn't be released till Axl is 100 percent happy with it etc.

And I was fine with that. Take as long as u want as long as it is how u want it.


I figured when Axl finally decided to release this, things would be in place and GNR would be an active band again. I figured kick ass single, video  Cover of Rolling Stone, Tour at the very least.

I just don't understand how u can put so much heart and soul and time into something only to have it turn into a gigantic clusterfuck. now, is that Axl's fault, the label's fault? I don't know but I hoped that CD would be the comeback of Axl and I am very happy to have the album, but we don't have Axl back.

Now does this mean I don't support GNR and I hate Axl just because I am unhappy with how CD was handled? Of course NOT. Those who are happy etc I applaud, but I can't sit by and keep my mouth shut about a band and a guy who have meant so much to my life when they are seeming to just throw in the towel on something that should've been extraordinary.

[jacdaniel]

Those who are happy etc I applaud, but I can't sit by and keep my mouth shut about a band and a guy who have meant so much to my life when they are seeming to just throw in the towel on something that should've been extraordinary.

Couldn't have said it better!  I do wish i could be happy with the CD but I do want GNR to be a big deal again, and i don't think im wrong for that, although i know some people will.

[gilld1]

So Jarmo, if a person gets on here and has high expectations for things such a a tour, a little press, some TV appearances they are ungrateful and delusional types fans?

On the other hand, if a fan gets on here and says they have no expectations for GnR to do anything ever again then they are haters and want the band to fail.  Correct?

Are the "real" fans the type to sit around and simply enjoy the dysfunctional relationship between Axl and the fans that made him a star?

If any of us on here had a girl/boy friend that treated us like Axl does his fans, would any of us stay with that person for very long?

Both respect and love are 2 way streets except in the world of Axl Rose.

[crazycheryl]

Actually, Axl is doing what he always has done. There is nothing for anyone to understand. It is just like a career - you do your best and you hope that your work is pretty amazing, which CD is, and then hope people like it. All you can ask for is that you are happy with what you put out. It's never going to please everyone. Look at how music has grown over the decades! GNR is still one of the best bands out there in it's genre and so is CD. As long as Axl is happy with what he has accomplished, it's his life, he is free to live it anyway he wants. Because we are fans, appreciate of his work, doesn't mean he has to do everything ever other artist is doing and basically kiss our asses.

Being an elder on this board, I see how much the music industry has changed. When I buy music, I listen to the whole thing. I have nieces and nephews that can't believe I leave a CD in to play the whole way through.

It's also as if young people are constantly expecting to be entertained. You don't know how much I hear - I'm bored. As a parent I hear this constantly and I always tell my kids, well entertain yourself then because I cant be responsible for your entertainment 24/7. I think it is the same way with Axl, people want him to do something constantly. Listen, when you get older you'll see that you don't have the same energy to keep entertaining as you used to.

Ok so now I sound like I'm about 80 years old. I say be happy with what you have and entertain yourself - quit looking to someone else to do it for you constantly.

[jarmo]

Touring will not change peoples perception of Axl. So Im not sure what your trying to get at when you mention 2006.

Wrong. He did interviews too.

He was at the MTV VMAs presenting the Killers...

All these things you want from him.

no, you havnt given me any examples actually. I keep asking you to name rock acts who put in the actual work but have stated they rather not do it. You have failed to come up with anything...so keep twisting away

Somebody already pointed out a clip where Metallica is doing radio IDs and not exactly looking all that interested.

Nice try.

I guess you think all these rock bands really enjoy doing TV commercials and stuff?

Did you hear them say so? I mean, many of them hate doing videos, but commercials are fun?

It's like many Formula 1 drivers. They have to do a lot of promotional stuff for their sponsors. They love driving the cars and racing, the other stuff they could do without. I'm sure some of them love it.

So I'm sure some musicians (rock bands) love going on talk shows and doing commercials, but I'm also sure there's a bunch who hate it. And since they don't wanna upset those that pay the bills, they keep their mouth shut and keep doing it.

The ball has been dropped. If you say otherwise then your not calling it like it is

Because I refuse to live in your dark corner of the world?

How come a band like Journey can have a "hit" on iTunes decades later because their song was in the last episode of the Sopranos?

Its not the bands fault. its Axls fault.

Does it make you feel better?

If Axl wants to move on from the past and move foward with the GNR name then he has to do just that.

Because you know everything about GN'R and how to get things done?

Why cant for just one dam time things go smooth? Is it the system? Bad luck? or maybe a good part of it is Axl? Its all 3 my friend.

You list three possible reasons and yet you only blame Axl. How surprising!

Thats you. If you want to have no expectations that your choice. So I guess you prefer grotesque women so you wont be dissappointed with rejection from a semi descent or hot chick? That a great way to live!

Comparing GN'R to a grotesque woman.... Boy, you must be desperate.

Or try telling people in NY or Boston to just root for their teams and be happy with a mediocre season. couple nice wins but nothing big. And say if they make the playoffs or win the chip that its icing on the cake. Youll get weird looks and laughed all the way back to belgium

As a Mets fan, you should be used to not expecting any World Series coming your way....


Oooh, another reference to that show in Belgium. Does it bother you that Axl mentioned my name since you keep bringing it up multiple times?

Yes, it was amazing. Thank you for noticing.

I hope you're not upset because I didn't share that moment with you.

But dont come across as if people who have expectations are just whiners and not grateful for the crumbs they get.

What do you come across as when all you do is whine and blame Axl for shit you know nothing about?

Happy?




gilee7, good points. People want the celebrities/"rock stars" to communicate with them only up to the point where they realize these "stars" are real people. Then it's not as much fun anymore because they say things the fans don't like, and are nothing like what the fans expected the "rock stars" to be like. So there goes your illusions that the guy you idolize isn't some kind of super human with no feelings....

Then comes the backlash...

So Jarmo, if a person gets on here and has high expectations for things such a a tour, a little press, some TV appearances they are ungrateful and delusional types fans?

Not necessarily.

But I've seen people expect GN'R to do all kinds of things. It's like, if you know anything about their past, you wouldn't expect these things.

If any of us on here had a girl/boy friend that treated us like Axl does his fans, would any of us stay with that person for very long?

Is that the kind of relationship you have with your favorite bands/artists?


I'll play along, and say what I've said numerous times: If GN'R makes you so damn unhappy, why not find something that makes you happier?





Nice to see some of the older fans remember how things were back in the day.

Seems like some of the younger fans don't realize that GN'R has always been doing things on their terms.





/jarmo

[crazycheryl]

How do we all know that GNR isn't still planning on doing some things to promote the CD? Maybe they aren't like everyone else who does it right away. Maybe they are taking a different approach.