What is it people fail to understand about Chinese Democracy?

[peter7411226]

What it really comes down to (and I think I said this before on a different thread) is for Axl to go out and perform with the right musicians who are going to support him and believe in the new CD.) That's all. He has nothing else to prove accept to bring the music live on stage. If nobody knew of Axl than I'd say yes he needs to to numerious interviews; videos and plaster himself all over the planet. Green day has to do that because (and I'm sorry to say this so Green day fans please except my apologies) they suck!!! You can't compare Green Day to G&R. Green Day is a band who are puppets for their record company and management.
Granted as far as a little more promoting for this cd might help. But Axl is not that kind of artists. He is a live performer and if he can some how get the right band together that wants to do this cd because they love it and they respect Axl from where he is coming from than it can happen.
Hiring professional musicians to come in because they are their to do a job and get paid is not going to cut it. I'm sure Axl knows this. Plus the musicians have to be a part of Axls team.
I already know that if he can obtain this, everything else is trivial. Because when the concert is over and the following day the newspapers read: "The new G&R  floors the audience and critiques....all the current news that we are discussing will be long forgotten.  

A word to the wise. As soon as you sign a contract with a record label you become a puppet for the record company. Let me ask you a question: If a record company invests X amount of money into your project shouldnt you be responsible for helping make sure that its a success?

Yeah if you are a nobody and it's a debut cd. But in the case of G&R at this point of their career (or should I say Axl) all he has to do is tour. Nothing else. Plus he made a killer cd.
If (as I stated before) or let's say if I was just signed. Yes I would have to go through the whole nine yards. But Axl......all he has to do is get up onstage and open his mouth and sing!!!!!! 

But touring is part of the promotion. Artists tour to promote something for the most part.

[ppbebe]

Again, wait and see.

people will get eventually. maybe not everyone but people with ears will

[D]

The thing about the tour is, we have no idea how hard putting something like that together is. I am sure is it way more difficult than we could even comprehend.

[jarmo]

ok so Axl hates going on TV and doing radio interviews.

Does he hate music videos too? How about magazine interviews? What does he like?

Let's do the twist shall we?

Chubby Checker and younggunner...


I didn't say he hates them!

I said he does things on his own terms! You said everybody does.

I'm saying everybody else is doing all kinds of shit they wouldn't want to if they had a choice!

Nowhere did I say Axl hates this or that.

I have come to the realization that Axl is not sure what he wants and has had no plan for the past 10+ yrs other than to make 1 album.

Yet Axl himself sees the album as a double one. That's two albums.

Weird.

The guy clearly doesnt know what he wants to do or how to move foward with CD and the new band.

And I disagree.






/jarmo

[younggunner]

I'm saying everybody else is doing all kinds of shit they wouldn't want to if they had a choice!

who? who has said they 'whored" themselves out despite hating the whole process?

[jarmo]

I'm saying everybody else is doing all kinds of shit they wouldn't want to if they had a choice!

who? who has said they 'whored" themselves out despite hating the whole process?

READ what I said.

I didn't say "the whole process", I said "all kinds of shit"!


For example, I don't know how often I've seen/heard clips of totally bored sounding/looking musicians making radio IDs.

Have you ever heard a musician (rock band in your case so you don't get confused) say something about how the two hours on stage makes it all worth all the rest they have to do? That's what they actually enjoy doing.

Or how they don't like journalists asking the same question over and over again?


I guess you never heard any of that!


No, I'm not saying they all hate everything.

I'm saying they put up with a lot of things that they wouldn't if they had a choice.

It's not a question about whoring yourself out. That's just you taking something and twisting it.


The point has been all along: Axl does things his way. Others seem to do a lot of things they don't like, while Axl doesn't. That's my current impression of the situation.

You don't agree because Axl did interviews in the 80s and 90s.

I'm talking about today. When doing interviews is nothing. Because now musicians (rockers, hell yeah! \m/ ) do things like reality TV, daytime talk shows etc.

Everybody wants a piece of you, not just MTV and Rolling Stone (like in the 80s/90s).

Things are on a totally different level today compared to the 80s or early 90s.







/jarmo

[The Catcher]

my only problem has always been the lack of updates.

And my problem is how so-called "fans" always think Axl owes them something. Before the internet, when GN'R were active, did you see Axl running to the magazines saying "hey everyone! there's not a lot going on right now but i'll get back to when i've got something to share!" - I don't think so, and I think we can all agree that would be pretty ridicilous. Why does the internet obligate the artist to talk so much more to the fans? He's a musician, he will let us know about the music when he has something to share! I know you expect Axl to go on twitter and talk about what he had for lunch, but he won't. And I'm glad. And by the way, Axl came on here to talk, didn't he? I guess that wasn't enough.

[younggunner]

For example, I don't know how often I've seen/heard clips of totally bored sounding/looking musicians making radio IDs.

Have you ever heard a musician (rock band in your case so you don't get confused) say something about how the two hours on stage makes it all worth all the rest they have to do? That's what they actually enjoy doing.

They might not like doing it but they are doing something called work. They are working to help promote their latest effort. axl is on such a level that he doesnt even have to do all the things your talking about such as radio tags etc. he can pick and choose what he wants to do. But the ball has been dropped.

As I mentioned many times, as in this thread, Axl appears as if hes lazy and doesnt want to work and support CD. so we actually agree on something.

The point has been all along: Axl does things his way. Others seem to do a lot of things they don't like, while Axl doesn't. That's my current impression of the situation.

You don't agree because Axl did interviews in the 80s and 90s.

I'm talking about today. When doing interviews is nothing. Because now musicians (rockers, hell yeah! \m/ ) do things like reality TV, daytime talk shows etc.

Everybody wants a piece of you, not just MTV and Rolling Stone (like in the 80s/90s).

Things are on a totally different level today compared to the 80s or early 90s.

Im not saying doing promos etc wwould have changed the fate of CD. Im saying that with a similar type of promotional effort that Greenday or any other rock band does(not reality tv) it would go a long way in changing the perception of Axl andGNR.

Most legit rock bands do not do anything out of the ordinary such as reality tv. You keep mentioning that like everyone here wants to see that or expected that.

Everyone and their mom here, except maybe you of course, expected that once CD was released, the typical rock promotion would begin. None expected Axl to go on Idol or have his own reality show. Just the typical videos, mags,mayve a late night appearance, tour etc

[jarmo]

As I mentioned many times, as in this thread, Axl appears as if hes lazy and doesnt want to work and support CD. so we actually agree on something.

No, we don't.

You have all these ideas that have very little to do with reality.

He's even said that they're gonna work that album over the next tours.

Im saying that with a similar type of promotional effort that Greenday or any other rock band does(not reality tv) it would go a long way in changing the perception of Axl andGNR.

Oh, because in 2006 everybody loved Axl?

Most legit rock bands do not do anything out of the ordinary such as reality tv. You keep mentioning that like everyone here wants to see that or expected that.

Where the fuck do you get this "everybody here wants" shit from?

I'm giving you examples of what others do just to promote their albums while not necessarily enjoying it.

I did not say you want Axl to be on reality TV. Get it? Stop twisting my words already!

Everyone and their mom here, except maybe you of course, expected that once CD was released, the typical rock promotion would begin.

Funny how Axl gave you an answer to that months ago.

Our focus was in getting the record deal done while finishing the album, which hit many an unexpected bump or sinkhole in the road right up until the actual release. We never intended a huge public rollout, especially without resolving certain issues

So poor you expected something that wasn't intended by the band.

As usual, blame the band for things you made up in your own head.....



I've told you in the past, but since your memory seems to be quite selective, I'll repeat it just for your enjoyment: I don't expect a lot from my favorite artists. I'm happy if they put out music that I enjoy listening to. If they do more than that, it's a bonus. It's like icing on the cake.

I don't need interviews, live shows, Twitter updates, Youtube clips, talk show appearances etc. to enjoy the music.




/jarmo

[ShotgunBlues1978]

-GNR's album had next to no mainstream promotion from the band or the label (sans the push of the first single)
-No single really caught on
-GNR's album was only available at about 860 stores in the US, and a specialty store at that.  Compared to 4000+ locations at a store that generates 100,000,000 people in foot traffic a week for AC/DC, and 20,000 or 30,000 or more for Metallica, Greenday, etc

Those are, in my estimation, biggest reasons for its lower sales.  The detractors love to say "it didn't sell because it sucks" but all you have to do is look at the Billboard Top 20 to see that quality has next to nothing to do with record sales

There's no point in playing the blame game but certain things did not happen that would've given GNR better sales.  The sales, given the level of promo and the limited availability, were actually pretty solid

[Naltav]

I'm saying everybody else is doing all kinds of shit they wouldn't want to if they had a choice!

who? who has said they 'whored" themselves out despite hating the whole process?

READ what I said.

I didn't say "the whole process", I said "all kinds of shit"!


For example, I don't know how often I've seen/heard clips of totally bored sounding/looking musicians making radio IDs.

Have you ever heard a musician (rock band in your case so you don't get confused) say something about how the two hours on stage makes it all worth all the rest they have to do? That's what they actually enjoy doing.

Or how they don't like journalists asking the same question over and over again?


I guess you never heard any of that!


No, I'm not saying they all hate everything.

I'm saying they put up with a lot of things that they wouldn't if they had a choice.

It's not a question about whoring yourself out. That's just you taking something and twisting it.


The point has been all along: Axl does things his way. Others seem to do a lot of things they don't like, while Axl doesn't. That's my current impression of the situation.

You don't agree because Axl did interviews in the 80s and 90s.

I'm talking about today. When doing interviews is nothing. Because now musicians (rockers, hell yeah! \m/ ) do things like reality TV, daytime talk shows etc.

Everybody wants a piece of you, not just MTV and Rolling Stone (like in the 80s/90s).

Things are on a totally different level today compared to the 80s or early 90s.







/jarmo

Like this?   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4O0k4AsNwM

Personally, I can't imagine Axl doing anything like this nowadays.... Axl and Slash did some TV-ad for Spin (I think...) in the early days.... But I guess Axl's integrity has changed. In my opinon, for the better!   

[Limulus]

I don't expect a lot from my favorite artists. I'm happy if they put out music that I enjoy listening to. If they do more than that, it's a bonus. It's like icing on the cake.

I don't need interviews, live shows, Twitter updates, Youtube clips, talk show appearances etc. to enjoy the music.

/jarmo

thats just the easiest way out!
i dont think its hard to understand that fans (not only the ones who spent lots of time and money on this band) would LOVE to have some more from their faves. you did enjoy the live shows aswell, right? the icing on the cake rarely appears - even if technology is there to send it more regulary easily.

[seely]

I don't expect a lot from my favorite artists. I'm happy if they put out music that I enjoy listening to. If they do more than that, it's a bonus. It's like icing on the cake.

I don't need interviews, live shows, Twitter updates, Youtube clips, talk show appearances etc. to enjoy the music.

/jarmo

thats just the easiest way out!
i dont think its hard to understand that fans (not only the ones who spent lots of time and money on this band) would LOVE to have some more from their faves. you did enjoy the live shows aswell, right? the icing on the cake rarely appears - even if technology is there to send it more regulary easily.

Live shows, fair enough, but then as Jarmo said, Promos, interviews, twitter e.t.c. is all just a bonus
As long as we have the albums themselves, i'm happy!

[D]

my only problem has always been the lack of updates.

And my problem is how so-called "fans" always think Axl owes them something. Before the internet, when GN'R were active, did you see Axl running to the magazines saying "hey everyone! there's not a lot going on right now but i'll get back to when i've got something to share!" - I don't think so, and I think we can all agree that would be pretty ridicilous. Why does the internet obligate the artist to talk so much more to the fans? He's a musician, he will let us know about the music when he has something to share! I know you expect Axl to go on twitter and talk about what he had for lunch, but he won't. And I'm glad. And by the way, Axl came on here to talk, didn't he? I guess that wasn't enough.

oh lord, so now because people want Axl to be active we are "so Called" fans.

See, I have a different approach. Why would a fan NOT want Axl to be active and successful? I don't get it. And yes, back in the day AXL was all over the fucking place. maybe u were too young to remember, but he even had a fucking MTV limo pick him up outside of jail to do an interview.

so don't give me this bullshit on how Axl has always been this media shy guy cause he hasn't.

Sure it was great Axl came on here and talked, but that was to like 100 people. I try to think bigger than myself and I want everybody to know how great this album is, but talking to people who already know isn't gonna accomplish that.

if Axl went on shows and was as striking and engaging as he was on Eddie Trunk, his perceived image would be repaired instantly.

[The Prez]

Axl can do whatever he wants and likes if you ask me; but ofcourse he shouldn't be surprised then if there are a lot of frustrated fans....or people bashing him or Guns in the media.

[jacdaniel]

Axl does things on his own terms

Maybe he does.  But "his term's" don't seem to be doing him much favours in 2009.  Of course, Axl can do whatever the hell he wants but people have to realise that some fan's have higher expectations of their favourite frontman.

Of course people are happy that the album is finally out.  But i think people thought that releasing an album would be followed by the videos, touring etc.  If i hear that a band is "releasing an album", i assume that it will come out in stores and they'll begin working on it.

Of course, maybe Axl has a master plan that we don't know about!  Maybe a second album is finished, he'll release it and go on a world tour for both albums.  I very much doubt this though.

[Naltav]

What it really comes down to (and I think I said this before on a different thread) is for Axl to go out and perform with the right musicians who are going to support him and believe in the new CD.) That's all. He has nothing else to prove accept to bring the music live on stage. If nobody knew of Axl than I'd say yes he needs to to numerious interviews; videos and plaster himself all over the planet. Green day has to do that because (and I'm sorry to say this so Green day fans please except my apologies) they suck!!! You can't compare Green Day to G&R. Green Day is a band who are puppets for their record company and management.
Granted as far as a little more promoting for this cd might help. But Axl is not that kind of artists. He is a live performer and if he can some how get the right band together that wants to do this cd because they love it and they respect Axl from where he is coming from than it can happen.
Hiring professional musicians to come in because they are their to do a job and get paid is not going to cut it. I'm sure Axl knows this. Plus the musicians have to be a part of Axls team.
I already know that if he can obtain this, everything else is trivial. Because when the concert is over and the following day the newspapers read: "The new G&R  floors the audience and critiques....all the current news that we are discussing will be long forgotten.  

A word to the wise. As soon as you sign a contract with a record label you become a puppet for the record company. Let me ask you a question: If a record company invests X amount of money into your project shouldnt you be responsible for helping make sure that its a success?

Yeah if you are a nobody and it's a debut cd. But in the case of G&R at this point of their career (or should I say Axl) all he has to do is tour. Nothing else. Plus he made a killer cd.
If (as I stated before) or let's say if I was just signed. Yes I would have to go through the whole nine yards. But Axl......all he has to do is get up onstage and open his mouth and sing!!!!!! 

But touring is part of the promotion. Artists tour to promote something for the most part.

That is not the case these days..... Sorry!

Like Duff McKagen wrote in one of his recent articles:
"Back when I was in GN'R, bands like us could pretty much operate at a break-even point on the road because acts were selling more records than is even imaginable these days. "   

And he continues.... " A rock tour back then, at the dawn of the digital era, was really just a huge commercial to sell your record."

So you see, things are now turned around. CD's, merch, licensing your music to games (RB, Guitar Hero) ringtones etc etc is now more like promotion for the tour/shows....
 

[jarmo]

thats just the easiest way out!
i dont think its hard to understand that fans (not only the ones who spent lots of time and money on this band) would LOVE to have some more from their faves. you did enjoy the live shows aswell, right? the icing on the cake rarely appears - even if technology is there to send it more regulary easily.

Honestly, I used to think like that. Now I'm convinced that no matter what GN'R does, it doesn't matter, people will never be happy.


I remember how "excited" some of the unhappy Americans were in 2007 when GN'R toured outside the USA.

I also remember a bunch of people complaining about the setlist. They didn't seem too excited about the tour either.





/jarmo

[Limulus]

off course you cant please them all, that can be considered as fact.
Axl always tried to push GN'R "forward", you'd agree?
some fans just try to push the band "forward" aswell but are being left pretty unheard and are put down as egoistic "whiners" here often. though in some points that might be ok to say but it gets twisted way too fast with any talking being a little critically to things GN'R do or -more accurate- GN'R dont do. and when going back 2-3 years back exspecially with the setlist the "Axl defenders" are on thin ice, and thats surely not the "ic(e)"ing on the cake!

[peter7411226]

What it really comes down to (and I think I said this before on a different thread) is for Axl to go out and perform with the right musicians who are going to support him and believe in the new CD.) That's all. He has nothing else to prove accept to bring the music live on stage. If nobody knew of Axl than I'd say yes he needs to to numerious interviews; videos and plaster himself all over the planet. Green day has to do that because (and I'm sorry to say this so Green day fans please except my apologies) they suck!!! You can't compare Green Day to G&R. Green Day is a band who are puppets for their record company and management.
Granted as far as a little more promoting for this cd might help. But Axl is not that kind of artists. He is a live performer and if he can some how get the right band together that wants to do this cd because they love it and they respect Axl from where he is coming from than it can happen.
Hiring professional musicians to come in because they are their to do a job and get paid is not going to cut it. I'm sure Axl knows this. Plus the musicians have to be a part of Axls team.
I already know that if he can obtain this, everything else is trivial. Because when the concert is over and the following day the newspapers read: "The new G&R  floors the audience and critiques....all the current news that we are discussing will be long forgotten.  

A word to the wise. As soon as you sign a contract with a record label you become a puppet for the record company. Let me ask you a question: If a record company invests X amount of money into your project shouldnt you be responsible for helping make sure that its a success?

Yeah if you are a nobody and it's a debut cd. But in the case of G&R at this point of their career (or should I say Axl) all he has to do is tour. Nothing else. Plus he made a killer cd.
If (as I stated before) or let's say if I was just signed. Yes I would have to go through the whole nine yards. But Axl......all he has to do is get up onstage and open his mouth and sing!!!!!! 

But touring is part of the promotion. Artists tour to promote something for the most part.

That is not the case these days..... Sorry!

Like Duff McKagen wrote in one of his recent articles:
"Back when I was in GN'R, bands like us could pretty much operate at a break-even point on the road because acts were selling more records than is even imaginable these days. "   

And he continues.... " A rock tour back then, at the dawn of the digital era, was really just a huge commercial to sell your record."

So you see, things are now turned around. CD's, merch, licensing your music to games (RB, Guitar Hero) ringtones etc etc is now more like promotion for the tour/shows....
 

I respectfully disagree. True it is a bit different than it was in the 80's but you still have to get out there and play the game. Let me use Metallica as an example ( and by no way am i comparing the 2 bands). Metallica is arguably the biggest rock band in the world right now. They never take the attitude that we can release an album and expect it to sell because we are Metallica. They go out and tour and promote. They know that in this industry your here today forgotten tomorrow. Also....Nobody is benefitting from what GNR is doing right now. I know im gonna hear that we have the album to listen to and we should enjoy that. Im talking about all of what is going on makes it less likely that any label, promoters etc. will want to deal or put money behind future projects with them. 15 years and a ton of money was put into this project so it wouldnt be promoted properly?