Buckethead vs. Robin (Chinese Democracy related)

[ShotgunBlues1978]

Posted this on another site, wanted more opinions

I've often wondered about this. In my opinion, if Axl had hired Buckethead in 1997 as opposed to 2000, and had not hired Robin at all, I believe that CD would've been out by 2000 at the latest

Regardless of what is said, I don't think Axl ever fully believed that Robin had the chops to be THE MAN in GNR. He was not good enough to match Slash.  Bucket really was that good.  Robin quit and came back, but when he came back, Bucket had joined. Yet I get the impression that, out of some sense of friendship/loyalty Axl tried to shoehorn Robin back in there. In turn, Bucket probably got tired of playing with a "co-lead" guitarist who wasn't fit to hold his guitar strap

I still think that if Axl had written his Prostitute/TWAT/IRS/Blues back in 1997 or 1998 (when he actually wrote them) and Bucket had brought his stuff to the table, they would've had a much more acceptable GNR album in 1999 that would've been released.  In my opinion, Robin just didn't have what it takes to be THE GUY in GNR. Bucket did, but he was limited by what had already been done

Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of the stuff Robin did on CD. But I think it would've been better if Robin had been brought in as a supporting member rather than as a lead man. He was never cut out for it and quite frankly not good enough. He has a unique style and is creative but to be the lead guitarist in GNR that's not good enough

[elmir]

Honestly...I truly don't understand why the fan base always feels compelled to over analyze what would have been better for this and that, and who is more suitable...

they're both great guitar players, with a solid reputation in the industry as to their ability, and i would say that we should trust Axl when it comes to choosing the musicians he wishes to work with...he seems to know better than us as to who is more suited to which song...as the album clearly shows...

after all, if it wasn't for Axl....90% of us wouldn't have even known who Robin or Buckethead are to begin with...

[wadey]

its all iffs and buts, farts and spluts 

[LIGuns]

Does Robin have any writing credits prior to CD? Was he just a touring guitarist in NIN, or did he play on any studio albums? Regardless he was great on tour and great on CD!!

[tippasaurus]

True, but argueably the "best" song on CD is "Better," and if Robin came after Bucket, would that song have even been written?  "Shackler's Revenge" was also quite likely written after 99 (Bucket wasn't using a whammy pedal until after 2000, from what I recall), so would that song have made it on the album if they released it around the time End of Days came out?

It's also possible we would have ended up with a bunch of IRS, Rhiad, Chinese Democracy, Oh My God, and Silk Worm-sounding songs (w/ Buck playing lead of course) if it came out in 99.  I may be in the minority, but with the exception of Oh My God; those are some of the weakest songs of the "new GNR" era. 

I think we can all analyze what would have been the best, but I think, with the exception of Bucket leaving, everything turned out the best that one could have hoped under the circumstances.  I'm just happy CD was released, as I honestly thought it was never coming out.

[Voodoochild]

Posted this on another site, wanted more opinions

I've often wondered about this. In my opinion, if Axl had hired Buckethead in 1997 as opposed to 2000, and had not hired Robin at all, I believe that CD would've been out by 2000 at the latest

Regardless of what is said, I don't think Axl ever fully believed that Robin had the chops to be THE MAN in GNR. He was not good enough to match Slash.  Bucket really was that good.  Robin quit and came back, but when he came back, Bucket had joined. Yet I get the impression that, out of some sense of friendship/loyalty Axl tried to shoehorn Robin back in there. In turn, Bucket probably got tired of playing with a "co-lead" guitarist who wasn't fit to hold his guitar strap

I still think that if Axl had written his Prostitute/TWAT/IRS/Blues back in 1997 or 1998 (when he actually wrote them) and Bucket had brought his stuff to the table, they would've had a much more acceptable GNR album in 1999 that would've been released.  In my opinion, Robin just didn't have what it takes to be THE GUY in GNR. Bucket did, but he was limited by what had already been done

Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of the stuff Robin did on CD. But I think it would've been better if Robin had been brought in as a supporting member rather than as a lead man. He was never cut out for it and quite frankly not good enough. He has a unique style and is creative but to be the lead guitarist in GNR that's not good enough

Its all based on your personal taste. I beg to differ, as I prefer any Robin solo over Bucket's ones.

Also, it's all Dead Horse.

True, but argueably the "best" song on CD is "Better," and if Robin came after Bucket, would that song have even been written?  "Shackler's Revenge" was also quite likely written after 99 (Bucket wasn't using a whammy pedal until after 2000, from what I recall), so would that song have made it on the album if they released it around the time End of Days came out?

As Shackler's has no Paul Tobias, I'd say it came out by 2002 or later.

It's also possible we would have ended up with a bunch of IRS, Rhiad, Chinese Democracy, Oh My God, and Silk Worm-sounding songs (w/ Buck playing lead of course) if it came out in 99.  I may be in the minority, but with the exception of Oh My God; those are some of the weakest songs of the "new GNR" era. 

Riad is the best fucking rock song that came out in many many years to me. I love IRS and Chinese too, so you may be indeed in minority.

[jarmo]

I think they compliment each other very well on the album and that's all that matters to me.


I also believe that in a band situation, they might've pushed each other. Kinda like a healthy competition.



/jarmo

[ppbebe]

^ditto. that's musical chemistry as we call it.

Regardless of what is said, I don't think Axl ever fully believed that Robin had the chops to be THE MAN in GNR. He was not good enough to match Slash.   

i think this is where you went all wrong.  
according to matt, robin's performance in Cirque du Soleil had axl want robin to be his lead.
I don't think he was looking for slash.

[Jim Bob]

I think they compliment each other very well on the album and that's all that matters to me.


I also believe that in a band situation, they might've pushed each other. Kinda like a healthy competition.



/jarmo

I agree, both players put down some sick guitar parts on the album and I honestly can't imagine Chinese Democracy without either one's contributions.

[estebanf]

Posted this on another site, wanted more opinions

I've often wondered about this. In my opinion, if Axl had hired Buckethead in 1997 as opposed to 2000, and had not hired Robin at all, I believe that CD would've been out by 2000 at the latest

Regardless of what is said, I don't think Axl ever fully believed that Robin had the chops to be THE MAN in GNR. He was not good enough to match Slash.  Bucket really was that good.  Robin quit and came back, but when he came back, Bucket had joined. Yet I get the impression that, out of some sense of friendship/loyalty Axl tried to shoehorn Robin back in there. In turn, Bucket probably got tired of playing with a "co-lead" guitarist who wasn't fit to hold his guitar strap

I still think that if Axl had written his Prostitute/TWAT/IRS/Blues back in 1997 or 1998 (when he actually wrote them) and Bucket had brought his stuff to the table, they would've had a much more acceptable GNR album in 1999 that would've been released.  In my opinion, Robin just didn't have what it takes to be THE GUY in GNR. Bucket did, but he was limited by what had already been done

Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of the stuff Robin did on CD. But I think it would've been better if Robin had been brought in as a supporting member rather than as a lead man. He was never cut out for it and quite frankly not good enough. He has a unique style and is creative but to be the lead guitarist in GNR that's not good enough

Robin is the most fantastic guitar player GNR has ever had, Buckethead (a guitarist I deeply admire and love) included. The ''robin is not good enough to match Slash'' is just your perception, but it's nonsense to me. Robin is by far a more versatile and musically open minded guitar player than Slash, and I also think Robin is also technically a more skilled guitarist. They are both incredible performers, two scenical monsters, though

The Robin vs Buckethead comparison is more interesting. Buckethead is techically better than Robin and Slash together, has an incredible creative potential and his mind is even opener than Robin's. Buckethead is the perfect antithesis to Slash: Buckethead wants to reinvent himself album after album, loves to explore new music styles and he's constantlytrying to improve his skills, which are already unbelievable. But scenically, Slash is a monster and Buckethead is a zero. Even though I love him I think his departure made GNR stronger in live performances, scenically talking.

Robin is the perfect guitarist for Guns N' Roses. I hope DJ Ashba the best, though. Robin and Buckethead did the best and most memorable guitar solos, in my opinion, of all GNR career: Robin's solos at TWAT, TIL and SOD / Buckethead solos at TWAT (the best of them all, a masterpiece in its own), Sorry, Protitute and Madagascar.

And just because I cant express it better,

I think they compliment each other very well on the album and that's all that matters to me.

[danielgnr]

Hi there, it's been a long time since the last time I posted here.

Don't mean to be disrespectful but I think Robin has nothing to offer compared with Buckethead.  Never understood his inclusion on Gn'r,  his style is not for a band like Guns, he belongs to NIN.  Before Chinese was on the stores, I thought he was an important composer, co-writer, but unfortunately he only co-wrote Better.
On the other hand we've got Buckethead who wrote important tunes in Chinese, he is a monster, a brilliant guitar player and I really like his work on Chinese.

[-Rob-]

what I wanted to say is that Slash is an incredible performer, his onstage attitude is amazing, he's incredibly magnetic at the point you cant stop looking at him in the shows. He moves around, runs, jumps, he has a lot of ''strenght'' live,

maybe you mean he was? 
 

Or maybe he means that he is and you simply disagree.

Anyhow, regarding the OP's statement, in alot of ways, I completely agree. It's not that I didn't think Robin could play the guitar, I just never saw anything special about his playing, or anything that made him stand out as being unique. I know of a local bands in my area who have guitarists that can play every bit as good, if not better, than Robin.

While I enjoyed some of Bucket's solos, his freak factor, and the people he drew to those 2002 shows, is what turned me off most about his tenure in the band. When I go to see a GN'R show, I can do without the nun-chuck circus act, and being surrounded by a bunch of bucket wearing individuals. I do enjoy his melodic stuff though, and have recommened his 'Colma' and 'Electric Tears' albums to quite a few who have admitted to really enjoying them.

In a nutshell, I can't say that I was overly bothered by either's departure. But if I had to choose one to come back, I would tolerate Bucket's gimmick just to hear some more of those wild riffs that he was able to produce.

[ppbebe]

what I wanted to say is that Slash is an incredible performer, his onstage attitude is amazing, he's incredibly magnetic at the point you cant stop looking at him in the shows. He moves around, runs, jumps, he has a lot of ''strenght'' live,

maybe you mean he was? 
 

Or maybe he means that he is and you simply disagree.

Or maybe slash isn't relevant any more.  definitely not to GNR of today.

[jarmo]

Look at the subject.

Think.





/jarmo

[Voodoochild]

Hi there, it's been a long time since the last time I posted here.

Don't mean to be disrespectful but I think Robin has nothing to offer compared with Buckethead.  Never understood his inclusion on Gn'r,  his style is not for a band like Guns, he belongs to NIN.  Before Chinese was on the stores, I thought he was an important composer, co-writer, but unfortunately he only co-wrote Better.
On the other hand we've got Buckethead who wrote important tunes in Chinese, he is a monster, a brilliant guitar player and I really like his work on Chinese.

Axl already had a important co-writer: Paul Tobias. Robin was brought to contribute with lead guitar, which he did awesome in songs like Street of Dreams, TWAT and This I Love.

All Bucket songs in Chinese has no Paul Tobias, so I think he started to write more when Tobias "left" (even tho I think he's been always around).

So, what people keep bringing about Robin being irrelevant because of only 1 writing credits is pretty non-sense to me.  

About his style.. I don't know, but last time I checked, NIN had no solos like This I Love. If you're talking about his look back in 2001/2, it's better to not even start.

I just never saw anything special about his playing, or anything that made him stand out as being unique. I know of a local bands in my area who have guitarists that can play every bit as good, if not better, than Robin.

Wow. I thought it was only D who would make such a silly statement about Robin.

Tell me please someone who has such an unique style (I'm talking about the way he plays), tone and lead writing. Post some YouTube vids with all those guys you THINK are as good or better than Robin.

Damn, why the fuck do you think Axl brought him? Because he's friend with Robin? Just to piss Trent off?

While I enjoyed some of Bucket's solos, his freak factor, and the people he drew to those 2002 shows, is what turned me off most about his tenure in the band. When I go to see a GN'R show, I can do without the nun-chuck circus act, and being surrounded by a bunch of bucket wearing individuals. I do enjoy his melodic stuff though, and have recommened his 'Colma' and 'Electric Tears' albums to quite a few who have admitted to really enjoying them.

In a nutshell, I can't say that I was overly bothered by either's departure. But if I had to choose one to come back, I would tolerate Bucket's gimmick just to hear some more of those wild riffs that he was able to produce.

What a great fan we have. One who "tolerates" a member and who just don't care about the new album at all.

[ppbebe]

I just never saw anything special about his playing, or anything that made him stand out as being unique. I know of a local bands in my area who have guitarists that can play every bit as good, if not better, than Robin.

Wow. I thought it was only D who would make such a silly statement about Robin.

he prefers adler to any other GNR drummer. maybe he is actually d 

Robin is Robin as bh is bh. both are second to none. they compliment each other very well in GNR thanks to axl.

[AtariLegend]

Paul Tobias was involved alot longer than both of them and plays on these songs. It's unfortunate that people seem to dismiss that.  

As far as Bucket vs. Finck goes, I love the Finck solo in "This I Love", but that "There Was A Time" solo is probably my favourite.

[ppbebe]

but that "There Was A Time" solo is probably my favourite.

with bh solo. the example of the chemistry of GNR comes into its own.

[danielgnr]

Hi there, it's been a long time since the last time I posted here.

Don't mean to be disrespectful but I think Robin has nothing to offer compared with Buckethead.  Never understood his inclusion on Gn'r,  his style is not for a band like Guns, he belongs to NIN.  Before Chinese was on the stores, I thought he was an important composer, co-writer, but unfortunately he only co-wrote Better.
On the other hand we've got Buckethead who wrote important tunes in Chinese, he is a monster, a brilliant guitar player and I really like his work on Chinese.

Axl already had a important co-writer: Paul Tobias. Robin was brought to contribute with lead guitar, which he did awesome in songs like Street of Dreams, TWAT and This I Love.

All Bucket songs in Chinese has no Paul Tobias, so I think he started to write more when Tobias "left" (even tho I think he's been always around).

So, what people keep bringing about Robin being irrelevant because of only 1 writing credits is pretty non-sense to me. 

About his style.. I don't know, but last time I checked, NIN had no solos like This I Love. If you're talking about his look back in 2001/2, it's better to not even start.

Ok, probably his importance as composer is not important for some people, let's focus on his work as a guitar player, in my opinion he doesn't have the "feeling" to play the old tunes, I must admit his work on Chinese is acceptable, but Gn'r is not a "one album band" they have 5 albums more, and I think it's really important to have a guitarist who can play the old songs as well. I'm not saying Robin can't play those songs, I mean he doesn't have the style.  One small example, Sweet child, he totally ruins the solo, probably some guys won't agree but that's what I think.

I have great expectations on DJ... I wish Bucket was still on the band, it would be an amazing team.

[falungong69]

they're both amazing musicians and their work on chinese democracy is proof of that.  but in my mind, they're both disloyal traitors.  once they got what they wanted from axl's genius, they deserted him and stabbed him in the back.  it's a shame such promising guitarists could act like such selfish children.  oh well, hopefully their time with a true genius (axl) will inspire them to make more great music in the future.  not that i'd buy it.