holy shit! this is THE BEST gnr line-up EVER!

[estebanf]

For me it would be like someone saying Queen with Paul Rodgers is better than Queen

Difference is Freddie Mercury was, under all possible points of view, greater than Paul Rodgers is. Scenically, as a songwritter and as a performer. (I have seen Queen + PR live and its a great spectacle to see anyway, and Paul rocks a lot)

But this is not GNR's case. Buckethead, Richard, Robin, DJ Ashba and Bumblefoot are the 5 of them more skilled and talented guitarists than Slash is (BH, Richard and Ron by faaaaaar away, complete different leagues), Brain is a drum-maestro which cant be compared under any circunstance with Adler or Sorum, Tommy is a more talented bassist than Duff and I dont know if I would dare to compare Chris with... Andreadis 

It seems like music itself is not defining your opinion. You are very tied up to an image, to nostalgic reasons, not the music itself. This lineup proved in its first and only attempt at the moment (CD) that sounds better than any other previous lineup. Damn man, grab your Tokyo 92 dvd, put Nightrain, then put Rock Am Ring and then you will think Tokyo 92 is slow motion garbage.

But if I am able to accept and respect your opinion, and take it as plausible, why are you denying people like me the possibility of choosing the newer lineups? If you think the AFD lineup is the best, FINE. But its perfectably acceptable that some of us choose CD, because there are plenty of concrete reasons to choose it, like the ones I mentioned above.

Its not a big deal though, I just don't get why people can think someone playing a song someone else WROTE makes them better than the person who wrote it.

Ok. GNR needs to erase ''Patience'', ''Brownstone'' and ''ISE'', and all other songs were written by Axl. Not a big deal. GNR has 14 new and better tracks to replace them.

[estebanf]

LOL@counting instrumental jams as songs to try and support an argument.

wanna try the maths erasing the jams?

[D]

This is one of those posts that makes me super glad I am now able to control myself.



I am out of this topic

I said my peace and I shall leave it at that.

[estebanf]

failed at finding a show with 85% of old tunes? 

[D]

not that post, your ridiculous one before


that is still 65 percent which is pretty close. I was thinking more of the 2002 shows.

[Wooody]

But this is not GNR's case. Buckethead, Richard, Robin, DJ Ashba and Bumblefoot are the 5 of them more skilled and talented guitarists than Slash is (BH, Richard and Ron by faaaaaar away, complete different leagues),

that is still debatable.

Even if all those players are technically more gifted than Slash, in his prime, one could argue that Slash was far more inspired and played with more passion than all of them.
Not to say I dont adore what the new guys did on chidem. I truely love Buckethead's solo on Twat to death.

But Slash in his prime is untouchable for me, and its got nothing to do with looks. I wouldn't want a reunion. Cause I think Slash is no longer the same guitarist he was 20 years ago.

[RancidPunx]

But this is not GNR's case. Buckethead, Richard, Robin, DJ Ashba and Bumblefoot are the 5 of them more skilled and talented guitarists than Slash is (BH, Richard and Ron by faaaaaar away, complete different leagues),

that is still debatable.

Even if all those players are technically more gifted than Slash, in his prime, one could argue that Slash was far more inspired and played with more passion than all of them.
Not to say I dont adore what the new guys did on chidem. I truely love Buckethead's solo on Twat to death.

But Slash in his prime is untouchable for me, and its got nothing to do with looks. I wouldn't want a reunion. Cause I think Slash is no longer the same guitarist he was 20 years ago.

Estebanf, your point is irrelevant because GNR were never technical virtuosos to begin with. Who cares if Finck and BBF are "better" than Slash, what have they written that is as timeless as SCOM? I'll Wait.
If I wanted guys who could jack off with their instruments,I'd listen to Dream Theater.

[D]

But this is not GNR's case. Buckethead, Richard, Robin, DJ Ashba and Bumblefoot are the 5 of them more skilled and talented guitarists than Slash is (BH, Richard and Ron by faaaaaar away, complete different leagues),

that is still debatable.

Even if all those players are technically more gifted than Slash, in his prime, one could argue that Slash was far more inspired and played with more passion than all of them.
Not to say I dont adore what the new guys did on chidem. I truely love Buckethead's solo on Twat to death.

But Slash in his prime is untouchable for me, and its got nothing to do with looks. I wouldn't want a reunion. Cause I think Slash is no longer the same guitarist he was 20 years ago.

Estebanf, your point is irrelevant because GNR were never technical virtuosos to begin with. Who cares if Finck and BBF are "better" than Slash, what have they written that is as timeless as SCOM? I'll Wait.
If I wanted guys who could jack off with their instruments,I'd listen to Dream Theater.

PREACH IT BROTHER!

people don't realize what writing a song is about and how incredibly difficult it is to come up with not just a song but something that is timeless and classic. Playing an already classic song isn't shit.

I guess Tommy Thayer is better than Ace Frehley

[mikeaxl]

personally i am a fan/supporter regardless of who is in the band. I agree that individually the present line ups musicians are superior i believe this opinion was cosigned by none other than Izzy Stradlin. but theres no denying what the afd/lies/uyi lineups accomplished. comparing apples to oranges. 5 guys with nothing but a dream,  kids to boot Plain and simple a lot of different variables creating different band dynamics.

[seely]

But this is not GNR's case. Buckethead, Richard, Robin, DJ Ashba and Bumblefoot are the 5 of them more skilled and talented guitarists than Slash is (BH, Richard and Ron by faaaaaar away, complete different leagues),

that is still debatable.

Even if all those players are technically more gifted than Slash, in his prime, one could argue that Slash was far more inspired and played with more passion than all of them.
Not to say I dont adore what the new guys did on chidem. I truely love Buckethead's solo on Twat to death.

But Slash in his prime is untouchable for me, and its got nothing to do with looks. I wouldn't want a reunion. Cause I think Slash is no longer the same guitarist he was 20 years ago.

 Who cares if Finck and BBF are "better" than Slash, what have they written that is as timeless as SCOM? I'll Wait.
If I wanted guys who could jack off with their instruments,I'd listen to Dream Theater.

TIL solo, Buckets TWAT solo, Better riff

Those are pretty timeless to me, for starters
I love Slash and think hes the best GN'R guitarist, but to say the new guys can't write amazing stuff is just wrong, some of GN'Rs best soings are on this record

[Naupis]

But this is not GNR's case. Buckethead, Richard, Robin, DJ Ashba and Bumblefoot are the 5 of them more skilled and talented guitarists than Slash is (BH, Richard and Ron by faaaaaar away, complete different leagues),

I don't understand the logic that superior technique makes one better for a given situation.

Josh Groban can sing Axl under the table, would replacing Axl for him make GNR a better band somehow because of his superior technical prowess as a classically trained opera type singer? Of course not. There is not one person on this board that would dream of making that argument.

Axl & Slash are like 2 peas in a pod in terms of their talent. You could consider Axl the Slash of singers, and Slash the Axl of guitarists.

Neither are what you would consider technical marvels. Yet they have a unique intangible quality to their voice and guitar playing that no amount of raw technical skill can duplicate. It is different, but it works.

It's the square peg in a round hole syndrome. That square peg might be the best and most elite square peg in the world, but if the situation calls for a round hole no amount of technical prowess is going to squeeze it into the round hole the way the round piece (while inferior) naturally fits in that whole. 

[Voodoochild]

Cracks me up people trying too hard to discredit the new songs and members.

If There Was A Time, Better and Street of Dreams (which, BTW, we've been listening to since 2001) aren't timeless, I don't know what else is. Maybe because they don't have a video and it's not the most requested song on TRL.

It's baseless. No one is denying all the previous work. I love the old tunes, I trully do. It's just that Ive been listening to some of the new songs for longer than six months already and I still can't get tired of them. And I know a lot of people who do the same. This is our opinion, it's what we like more.

So, it's only logical to support the new band. I don't care about being as popular and I don't think Axl cares that much either. It's only fair to judge the music, not their charts. So, it's all a matter of opinion, nothing more. There's no facts, it's only choices.

Axl & Slash are like 2 peas in a pod in terms of their talent. You could consider Axl the Slash of singers, and Slash the Axl of guitarists.

No, I can't. Slash didn't improve with the time.

[-Rob-]

Cracks me up people trying too hard to discredit the new songs and members.

If There Was A Time, Better and Street of Dreams (which, BTW, we've been listening to since 2001) aren't timeless, I don't know what else is. Maybe because they don't have a video and it's not the most requested song on TRL.

It's baseless. No one is denying all the previous work. I love the old tunes, I trully do. It's just that Ive been listening to some of the new songs for longer than six months already and I still can't get tired of them. And I know a lot of people who do the same. This is our opinion, it's what we like more.

So, it's only logical to support the new band. I don't care about being as popular and I don't think Axl cares that much either. It's only fair to judge the music, not their charts. So, it's all a matter of opinion, nothing more. There's no facts, it's only choices.

Would you feel more comfortable if everyone here places a disclaimer beneath their posts that states "This is only my opinion"? 

I can't help but to notice the only time you have an issue with one's "opinion" is when it's not the same one that you share. As soon as this happens, the "that's not a fact" rhetoric begins.

The definiton of timeless is 'Having no end; interminable; unending'. I suppose anyone could argue that any song ever written is timeless if they truly enjoy it. But it's hard to argue that a song such as 'Better' is timeless when it's only been commercially available now for 6 months, did nothing on the charts, and has drawn no real mainstream demand. For you, it may be timeless. For the vast majority, that probably isn't the case.

Surely you can see that people are going to look at you funny when you try and clump 'Better' or 'SOD' in with highly recognized and popular songs like 'WTTJ' and 'SCOM'. It has nothing to do with putting down the band or the songs, it's simply about being logical.

I think 'TWAT' is a great song. I'd like to think I'll believe the same in 10 years. But if I were to go around and tell people that I think the song is "timeless", and grouping it into some well known classics, I can see where that might trigger a 'WTF' expression from somebody.

[jacdaniel]

This is never gonna get resolved.   

Everyone can a favourite/best version of the band in THEIR opinion.

But, if your judging it on success, the Old band will win hands down. 

[peter7411226]

I think certain things sometime get lost in translation.

Maybe to some people "favorite" and "best" mean the same thing, I don't know.

No, it's not.


It's just that some people feel like now = best.

Like, everything up until now was great, but right now is still the best.


It's like, you can sit and think about how something that happened to you 20 years ago was the best thing ever, but if something similar happened to you now, you'd think it was awesome.

Because you're living it right now.

For some, the fact that it's a current event automatically makes it the best thing.

On the other hand, some prefer the past and everything that has happened before right now is the best for them. That kind of people would still be like "oh, it was great but not like 20 years ago".


Another analogy. Some think their college years were the best, others think today is the best days of their lives.



That's the difference.



/jarmo

But Jarmo,

You have to admit that you can't call the new lineup the best without having heard a peep out of them? Its kind of insulting to the other lineups.

[estebanf]

Even if all those players are technically more gifted than Slash, in his prime, one could argue that Slash was far more inspired and played with more passion than all of them.

I'm not really interested in the past. Yeah, I know everything about Slash is that: the past.

But I also think Bucket and Finck are more creative and have more feeling playing guitar. Its not only about technique. Some of you seem to be unable to understand that being a technique player dont force a guitarist to be ''uninspired''.

I see Finck playing in GNR or in NIN and I see a musician playing with TONS more passion and love for music than Slash. Plus, he's a better player technically.

Estebanf, your point is irrelevant because GNR were never technical virtuosos to begin with.

That's not true. GNR was a band of technical virtuosos in 2002. What? You do not consider the 2002 a true GNR lineup?

Who cares if Finck and BBF are "better" than Slash, what have they written that is as timeless as SCOM?

''SCOM'' wasnt timeless in 6 months. And  TWAT, Madagascar, Prostitute, This i Love and CITR are songs born to be timeless. That's undeniable.

I'll Wait.
If I wanted guys who could jack off with their instruments,I'd listen to Dream Theater.

You can also expect that of the band this forum is dedicated to.

But this is not GNR's case. Buckethead, Richard, Robin, DJ Ashba and Bumblefoot are the 5 of them more skilled and talented guitarists than Slash is (BH, Richard and Ron by faaaaaar away, complete different leagues),

I don't understand the logic that superior technique makes one better for a given situation.

That's the only objective thing to judge.

I think Finck and Buckethead have more passion and feeling when they play than Slash, I also think they are both more creative, open minded and versatile players. But these are all subjective things: I can think this and I'm unable to justify it empirically. You might think Slash ''has more soul'' or ''a better vibe'' or many other untangible and subjective things, and that's fine. These are tastes.

Does technical players make better music than non-technical? Not necesarily. But neither the opposite.

[jarmo]

But Jarmo,

You have to admit that you can't call the new lineup the best without having heard a peep out of them? Its kind of insulting to the other lineups.

It's a personal preference thing.

As I said, I don't find it insulting if somebody thinks what we have now is the best.


It seems like among certain GN'R fans it's ok to look back. To live in the present is frowned upon.





/jarmo

[peter7411226]

But Jarmo,

You have to admit that you can't call the new lineup the best without having heard a peep out of them? Its kind of insulting to the other lineups.

It's a personal preference thing.

As I said, I don't find it insulting if somebody thinks what we have now is the best.


It seems like among certain GN'R fans it's ok to look back. To live in the present is frowned upon.





/jarmo

Jarmo,

Your missing my point......my point is for all we know the new lineup may be the best, we just havent heard them yet. Im not pissing on the present. My whole point is how can anybody say that the lineup with Ashba is the best if we havent heard them yet? I'll wait and judge once I heard them.

[bodine]

But Jarmo,

You have to admit that you can't call the new lineup the best without having heard a peep out of them? Its kind of insulting to the other lineups.

It's a personal preference thing.

As I said, I don't find it insulting if somebody thinks what we have now is the best.


It seems like among certain GN'R fans it's ok to look back. To live in the present is frowned upon.





/jarmo

And to some it's okay to do both.  

But fact is fact, unless you went to rehearsals, you've not heard this version of the band perform.  And even then, I'd be willing to bet Axl wasn't there and you'd still have not heard this entire band perform.

It's not a past vs. present or old vs. new thing.  It is a fact.

[jarmo]

And I'm saying, some people don't necessarily use the same references to what is the best as others do.

Maybe they don't judge something based on the looks of it, the technical ability or whatever. Just that it's here and right now, puts it ahead of the rest.





/jarmo