holy shit! this is THE BEST gnr line-up EVER!

[-Rob-]

say there'd be 2 gigs tomorrow, one by GNR of 87, and the other GNR of today, I'd go see the latter. No waver.

Well, fortunately for you, you wouldn't be in the group of fans who would have to worry about camping out overnight for tickets. 

[jarmo]

this has nothing to do with old vs new

this has to do with HISTORY

No, it has to do with personal opinion!


If I tell you: Hey D, you were at your best five years ago! You'll never be anything near as good as you were back then......

What would you say to that?

I bet you might say that you're better in certain ways? That you're a better person (hopefully)? That you wouldn't want to be the person you were back then today?





It just seems like some of you like to use threads such as this, where somebody presents their opinion on how they think something current is great, as a way to point out that nothing has been great since the 90s.


I don't necessarily agree with everything the thread starter says all the time, but I think the attitude is right. You have to look forward and be optimisitc.

Just because I prefer to live in the now and look forward instead of back, I allegedly hate the GN'R that existed in the 80s/90s and can't stand to hear any of the old albums....  

There's nothing wrong with being optimistic in my opinion. The only ones who think that it's wrong to be optimistic, enthusiastic and/or passionate about the band are the ones who are afraid of being called "fan boys" on the Internet. Oddly enough, they also think I'm insulted if they call me a fan boy or asskisser, while in reality they all get their collective egos bruised if somebody dares to question what kind of fans they really are...




I also find it ironic how some of those who were pointing out how horrible things were in 2006-7 are now pointing out how great it was....

So many were focusing on what you thought was wrong (how the songs were played, what songs were played, who was playing what etc etc), and now you're missing those days! Ironic!

Maybe next time you want to think about how you support the band by bashing them as often as possible and then realize that it was a great band once somebody decides to leave.




/jarmo

[Voodoochild]

Robin was a big part of that lineup. None of us have heard them play a single note without him and with Ashba. So its a little premature to say that this is the best lienup until we hear them play.

I agree, hence why I don't agree with falungong.

Didnt you say a few posts ago that falungong69 was entitled to his opinion? By that logic isnt D entitled to his?

No, that's not the point. D's opinion is that AFD is best lineup ever. Fine. What I disagree is how he says no one can ever prefer any other and say its the best one. He's the one disrespecting opinions and this is why I'm replying him.

this has nothing to do with old vs new

this has to do with HISTORY

and when u examine history it is a FACT that the Appetite or even the UYI lineup is the best

Best selling. Best whatever.

For HIM, it's not the best. Yes, it's his favorite. And that's the exactly same thing as saying it's the best one.

And please, you don't need to tell me GNR history. I love this band for probably more years than your lifetime.

but when u are throwing out words like greatest and best, u gotta have factual statistics to back that stuff up.

So, for you, big selling albums and tours means best?

Again, the same example: Britney Spears >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chinese Democracy for you.

Ok, but he's stating how the AFD line-up is the best EVER and nobody can say otherwise.

You're more than entitled to say otherwise.

Unfortunately, D's "opinion" is one that is very, very commonly shared by the masses. We're talking about a band that defined a generation and wrote some of rock n rolls most memorable anthems EVER.

The new lineup(s), at best, have a small internet cult following, and an album that disappeared from the charts after only 4 months.

So, can you say this is better? Sure. You can say it. But don't be surprised when the majority call bullshit on the matter.

Popularity doesn't mean shit to me.

I couldn't care less to what the average people with a HUGE prejudice against the new guys could think. The same majority who trashed the album without even listen to it.

If I'd go with the flow I wouldn't even listen to rock these days. Hell, if I'd follow the sheeps I'd be posting in MyGNR now.

say there'd be 2 gigs tomorrow, one by GNR of 87, and the other GNR of today, I'd go see the latter. No waver.

Well, fortunately for you, you wouldn't be in the group of fans who would have to worry about camping out overnight for tickets. 

Yeah, all of those people would be really big fans!

I'd rather go to a concert with fellow gnr fans than with a wave of people following the trend of revival. And who would bitch anyways saying how Axl is old and doesn't use bike shorts anymore.

It just seems like some of you like to use threads such as this, where somebody presents their opinion on how they think something current is great, as a way to point out that nothing has been great since the 90s.

It does seems like the same people always.

[D]

I am saying this band hasn't done anything to BEAT the AFD lineup

they haven't even toured yet

how can something be better, when they haven't done anything.


If 5 years ago I could run a marathon in 3 hours and today I no longer even run, I couldn't say I am in the best shape of my life


When something is the "BEST" that means they are the greatest.

How can a band who have released no albums and played zero shows be better than a lineup with 4 groundbreaking all time great albums and some of the greatest songs ever written?


So Voodoo, u are comparing Old GNR to Britney Spears?

[Voodoochild]

You are when you said what matters is how many copies they sold.

[jarmo]

I am saying this band hasn't done anything to BEAT the AFD lineup

You should ask yourself: How can something that exists be better than something of the past?

The answer is in the question itself.


You just have to accept that some people see things differently.

Allegedly, I have trouble doing so and here I am telling you to accept different points of view. That's humor.





/jarmo

[draguns]

Here is a point that I would like to make. Over the weekend, I went to the bank to pay my bills. I was wearing the old GNR bullet logo T-shirt. The bank teller is in her mid 20s. She asked me what do I think of the new Guns N' Roses album. I said it was a  great Axl Rose solo effort, but it isn't GNR. She said you are right. She said AFD was one of the greatest albums she has ever listened to. She wished she could see those guys that made that album. Point being that was the best lineup, which will be remembered. People will not remember this lineup as a result of the constant changes going on. The current lineup is good, but you really don't sense that chemistry between them. This is what made GNR from good to great! It was a sense of brotherhood that you got from the band.

[estebanf]

I am saying this band hasn't done anything to BEAT the AFD lineup
they haven't even toured yet
how can something be better, when they haven't done anything.

Well, I have never seen Mika Hakkinen and Michael Schumacher in the same F1 team, but if they were together, they would be better and they surely would obtain better results than current Force India F1 Team, and I dont need to see anything to be sure about that. In this particular case (for the record, I have said that my favourite lineup in terms of greatness was the one who played in Hong Kong in 2002), I dont need to see Ashba playing in Guns to be absolutely sure that this current lineup is better than AFD's, because I have seen 7/8 of the musicians of the current GNR lineup and I have seen DJ Ashba in other circumstances, and I know he's a very skilled player, probably even more technical than Robin (I have to see how good is him scenicallly speaking), and I dont need any more information.

Oh, and without counting ChiDem, GNR has already done something to beat AFD: ''Use Your Illusion i & II'', by Geffen Records.

[D]

I think certain things sometime get lost in translation.

Maybe to some people "favorite" and "best" mean the same thing, I don't know.

It comes back to sports:

I can say this year's LA Lakers are my Favorite Lakers team of all time.

But If I said, this year's Lakers team is the best Laker team ever I'd be bombarded with thousands of posts as to why I am wrong.


Same with this:

people somehow got into this all or nothing GNR mentality where to love the new band, u have to hate everything old. U have to hate Slash, u have to hate everything and I just find that to be ridiculous.


Ask yourself this question:

GNR of Appetite and UYI are Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame, one of the 5 to 10 greatest rock bands ever


Now Take away all the old bands music and accomplishments.

Start fresh with today's band and their accomplishments.


I don't know why this is so hard for people to admit.

saying the AFD/UYI lineup has been the best doesn't mean the new sucks, it is just acknowledging all the amazing, groundbreaking things this band has accomplished.

No Voodoo popularity isn't the only thing but when the music is amazing and popular, that is a double edged sword that can't be denied.

[D]

I am saying this band hasn't done anything to BEAT the AFD lineup
they haven't even toured yet
how can something be better, when they haven't done anything.

Well, I have never seen Mika Hakkinen and Michael Schumacher in the same F1 team, but if they were together, they would be better and they surely would obtain better results than current Force India F1 Team, and I dont need to see anything to be sure about that. In this particular case (for the record, I have said that my favourite lineup in terms of greatness was the one who played in Hong Kong in 2002), I dont need to see Ashba playing in Guns to be absolutely sure that this current lineup is better than AFD's, because I have seen 7/8 of the musicians of the current GNR lineup and I have seen DJ Ashba in other circumstances, and I know he's a very skilled player, probably even more technical than Robin (I have to see how good is him scenicallly speaking), and I dont need any more information.

Oh, and without counting ChiDem, GNR has already done something to beat AFD: ''Use Your Illusion i & II'', by Geffen Records.

U do realize that 85 percent of that setlist was written by the AFD/UYI lineup right?

[Wooody]

Common, We ALL know the appetite era line up was the best.

no.

say there'd be 2 gigs tomorrow, one by GNR of 87, and the other GNR of today, I'd go see the latter. No waver.

I hear RS  had lots of hit songs in the 70s. so did US in the 80s. not now altho the lineups  are the same.
Does that mean those bands were better then?

well, I wouldnt want to go see the GNR lineup of 87 in 2009. There no question about it I would rather see the present incarnation. No waver.
But if I had the possibility to go back in time and see Guns n roses in 1987.
I would rather see them and not 2009 GNR, in 2009

[jarmo]

I think certain things sometime get lost in translation.

Maybe to some people "favorite" and "best" mean the same thing, I don't know.

No, it's not.


It's just that some people feel like now = best.

Like, everything up until now was great, but right now is still the best.


It's like, you can sit and think about how something that happened to you 20 years ago was the best thing ever, but if something similar happened to you now, you'd think it was awesome.

Because you're living it right now.

For some, the fact that it's a current event automatically makes it the best thing.

On the other hand, some prefer the past and everything that has happened before right now is the best for them. That kind of people would still be like "oh, it was great but not like 20 years ago".


Another analogy. Some think their college years were the best, others think today is the best days of their lives.



That's the difference.



/jarmo

[Voodoochild]

Here is a point that I would like to make. Over the weekend, I went to the bank to pay my bills. I was wearing the old GNR bullet logo T-shirt. The bank teller is in her mid 20s. She asked me what do I think of the new Guns N' Roses album. I said it was a  great Axl Rose solo effort, but it isn't GNR. She said you are right. She said AFD was one of the greatest albums she has ever listened to. She wished she could see those guys that made that album. Point being that was the best lineup, which will be remembered. People will not remember this lineup as a result of the constant changes going on. The current lineup is good, but you really don't sense that chemistry between them. This is what made GNR from good to great! It was a sense of brotherhood that you got from the band.

Oh, please. If it was all so perfect and "chemistry" was all there, why did they broke up?

You don't have to get a bunch of friends from the school time to have good chemistry and music.

And let me tell you: prejudice is what makes most of people not really enjoy this new album.

I think certain things sometime get lost in translation.

Maybe to some people "favorite" and "best" mean the same thing, I don't know.

It comes back to sports:

I can say this year's LA Lakers are my Favorite Lakers team of all time.

But If I said, this year's Lakers team is the best Laker team ever I'd be bombarded with thousands of posts as to why I am wrong.

Its MUSIC, not sports. Do I need to explain it again?

You can't count how many albums were sold to state how one is better than other. It's all a matter of personal taste. Not a fact, no matter how hard you try. At the end of the day, it's HIS opinion, as much as I disagree with him too.

Same with this:

people somehow got into this all or nothing GNR mentality where to love the new band, u have to hate everything old. U have to hate Slash, u have to hate everything and I just find that to be ridiculous.


Ask yourself this question:

GNR of Appetite and UYI are Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame, one of the 5 to 10 greatest rock bands ever


Now Take away all the old bands music and accomplishments.

Start fresh with today's band and their accomplishments.


I don't know why this is so hard for people to admit.

saying the AFD/UYI lineup has been the best doesn't mean the new sucks, it is just acknowledging all the amazing, groundbreaking things this band has accomplished.

Accomplished things aren't what makes one band great. I saw a lot of amazing bands achieving less things than some utter garbage.

Faith No More was amazing, but sold a lot less than Bon Jovi. Still, does it makes me prefer Bon Jovi? NO!

No Voodoo popularity isn't the only thing but when the music is amazing and popular, that is a double edged sword that can't be denied.

And what made the music popular? MTV.

If it wasn't for the WTTJ video being pushed by Geffen people, maybe AFD could disapeer between all the crap they had in 1987.

If the new band doesn't have all this publicity, I don't know how could they ever achieve the same. Even if it was 1987 and we didn't have digital piracy. There's also the huge grudge people have with Axl with all this "this is not GNR" shit. They rather judge the album from its name than from the music itself.

[Jim Bob]

D, some of us don't care who wrote what.  some of us just enjoy the music and the performances.  get off your high horse.

the current lineup plays the fuck out of all Guns songs, new and old.   I enjoy their performances more.  that is all that matters to me.

[Voodoochild]

I am saying this band hasn't done anything to BEAT the AFD lineup
they haven't even toured yet
how can something be better, when they haven't done anything.

Well, I have never seen Mika Hakkinen and Michael Schumacher in the same F1 team, but if they were together, they would be better and they surely would obtain better results than current Force India F1 Team, and I dont need to see anything to be sure about that. In this particular case (for the record, I have said that my favourite lineup in terms of greatness was the one who played in Hong Kong in 2002), I dont need to see Ashba playing in Guns to be absolutely sure that this current lineup is better than AFD's, because I have seen 7/8 of the musicians of the current GNR lineup and I have seen DJ Ashba in other circumstances, and I know he's a very skilled player, probably even more technical than Robin (I have to see how good is him scenicallly speaking), and I dont need any more information.

Oh, and without counting ChiDem, GNR has already done something to beat AFD: ''Use Your Illusion i & II'', by Geffen Records.

U do realize that 85 percent of that setlist was written by the AFD/UYI lineup right?

So, you do realize that 87% of the 2007 lineup are what falungong is talking about, right?

[draguns]

VoodooChild, look at the old videos of GNR. Listen to Axl stating what Adler said "you never hit one of the family" after hitting a guy with the cast. There was chemistry there between all of them. The problem started when they became too successful and grew apart. No matter what type of relationship you have with someone it takes work to gain it and maintain it.

[Jim Bob]

I am saying this band hasn't done anything to BEAT the AFD lineup
they haven't even toured yet
how can something be better, when they haven't done anything.

Well, I have never seen Mika Hakkinen and Michael Schumacher in the same F1 team, but if they were together, they would be better and they surely would obtain better results than current Force India F1 Team, and I dont need to see anything to be sure about that. In this particular case (for the record, I have said that my favourite lineup in terms of greatness was the one who played in Hong Kong in 2002), I dont need to see Ashba playing in Guns to be absolutely sure that this current lineup is better than AFD's, because I have seen 7/8 of the musicians of the current GNR lineup and I have seen DJ Ashba in other circumstances, and I know he's a very skilled player, probably even more technical than Robin (I have to see how good is him scenicallly speaking), and I dont need any more information.

Oh, and without counting ChiDem, GNR has already done something to beat AFD: ''Use Your Illusion i & II'', by Geffen Records.

U do realize that 85 percent of that setlist was written by the AFD/UYI lineup right?

So, you do realize that 87% of the 2007 lineup are what falungong is talking about, right?

seriously.. people are talking like this is a completely different band now.     

[estebanf]

I am saying this band hasn't done anything to BEAT the AFD lineup
they haven't even toured yet
how can something be better, when they haven't done anything.

Well, I have never seen Mika Hakkinen and Michael Schumacher in the same F1 team, but if they were together, they would be better and they surely would obtain better results than current Force India F1 Team, and I dont need to see anything to be sure about that. In this particular case (for the record, I have said that my favourite lineup in terms of greatness was the one who played in Hong Kong in 2002), I dont need to see Ashba playing in Guns to be absolutely sure that this current lineup is better than AFD's, because I have seen 7/8 of the musicians of the current GNR lineup and I have seen DJ Ashba in other circumstances, and I know he's a very skilled player, probably even more technical than Robin (I have to see how good is him scenicallly speaking), and I dont need any more information.

Oh, and without counting ChiDem, GNR has already done something to beat AFD: ''Use Your Illusion i & II'', by Geffen Records.

U do realize that 85 percent of that setlist was written by the AFD/UYI lineup right?

so fu**ing what? Is that 85% of the setlist the creation of another band? You have to realise that ''November Rain'', ''Out ta Get me'' and ''There Was A Time'' are the three of them GN'R songs, three songs from the same band.

Oh, and by the way, lets do some maths:

05.12.06 - Hammerstein Ballroom, New York, NY
opening acts: Shakerleg, Bullet For My Valentine
attendance: 3,800 +/-
set: Welcome To The Jungle, It's So Easy, Mr. Brownstone, Better, Live And Let Die, Guitar Solo [Robin], Sweet Child O' Mine, Knockin' On Heaven's Door, Madagascar, You Could Be Mine, Piano Solo [Dizzy], The Blues, Out Ta Get Me, Guitar Solo [Bumblefoot], November Rain, My Michelle [w/ Sebastian Bach], Chinese Democracy, There Was A Time, Patience, Guitar Solo [Bumblefoot], I.R.S., Nightrain
encore: Guitar Solo [Robin], Paradise City

8 non-cover songs from AFD
2 non-cover songs from UYI
1 non-cover song from Lies
6 songs from Chinese Democracy
5 instrumental jams
------------------------------
22 songs

22 > 100%
10 > 45% ---------------> that's the % of the ''afd / uyi'' setlist

And remember one little but significative fact: there was no ''Chinese Democracy'' at this show. Let's see if Guns still plays 45% of old tunes and 27% of CD tracks in the next shows, with CD in the streets. Anyway, if GNR still plays 45% of old tunes, why the fuck not? They are their songs. 6 albums, one band.

And remember Axl's words when he said the band will focus primarily in the new songs.

As you might see, 85% is not 45%

[D]

For me it would be like someone saying Queen with Paul Rodgers is better than Queen

Its not a big deal though, I just don't get why people can think someone playing a song someone else WROTE makes them better than the person who wrote it.

That is really weird to me.

Its like people don't even take into account what the AFD/UYI lineup created or accomplished.

Writing a song like SCOM and covering it are nowhere near the same thing but most of u act like it is.

[D]

LOL@counting instrumental jams as songs to try and support an argument.