is this english??

[ppbebe]

To be honest, I don't care where

Do you wanna go with GNR?

say yeah!

YEAH!

thanks god at least two are on board.

one little vote for a man, one giant leap toward democracy! 

[jarmo]

I don't have to settle for what radio, etc gives to me that's why I buy and listen to what I like. But again, you're discounting my valid point as an "easy excuse to do nothing". Nevermind the fact that tons of fans from these boards tried hard and it didn't help. Just call it an easy excuse to do nothing?

Well it is easy. "It doesn't work so why bother".

That's as easy as whining about stuff without offering anything constructive.

That's my point.

I listen to the album everyday.

It's still amazing isn't it? 

You will never get through to Jarmo and the people that share the same viewpoints of the whole fan/band/promotion/CD era dynamic.

When the day comes that everybody is happy, maybe then you will. 

But so far, it's been the same old:

"We want an album" -> Album comes out -> "We want the follow-up!" and/or "we want a tour!"
"We want a tour" -> Band tours -> "We want the album"


Some people are never happy.

So I'm convinced that even if GN'R did interviews with everybody in the whole world, toured 360 days of the year and put out videos for every single song on the album, the above mentioned people would still not be happy.

So after those 360 shows, interviews and 14 new music videos, the question would be "When's the next album coming out?".....

One of the problem is that Axl can't decide of everything alone, it's a lot of responsability.

There you go living in your own little bubble again, disregarding facts.

It's true, Axl's the one who's been there since day one and is always the one held responsible for everything involving the band (even when he's not the one making the decision).

But to the point, you're wrong. Here's an example:

The songs were chosen by everyone involved. I didn?t want to do This I love in anyway shape or form and Robin and Caram insisted gaining Tommy?s and the others support.

/jarmo

[younggunner]

It's still amazing isn't it? 

Yes...beyond amazing

Wish certain things could have been different along the way, which would have made eveything even more enjoyable...but at the very least...and the most important...the music is amazing....which is why I will forever be an Axl nutswinger(despite how badly things have been handled)

[D]

I do agree CD is a great album

There are 2 things that I don't like about it *TIL Solo* and Catcher guitar solos*

I really like the solos etc on all the songs not named above.my mind has changed a lot over the many listens.

 realized I had to accept this as a "NEW" band and had to stop trying to listen to them in comparison to the old band.

the only thing missing for me on CD is the head banging kick ass riffs

but songwise, lyrically, melodically etc it is amazing.

I admitted early this year that the leaks really ruined a lot of the experience for me and I am sticking to the fact I won't let that happen again.

I can't imagine how much I'd still love this CD had I not DL the leaks.

[russtcb]

I don't have to settle for what radio, etc gives to me that's why I buy and listen to what I like. But again, you're discounting my valid point as an "easy excuse to do nothing". Nevermind the fact that tons of fans from these boards tried hard and it didn't help. Just call it an easy excuse to do nothing?

Well it is easy. "It doesn't work so why bother".

That's as easy as whining about stuff without offering anything constructive.

That's my point.

I listen to the album everyday.

It's still amazing isn't it? 

You will never get through to Jarmo and the people that share the same viewpoints of the whole fan/band/promotion/CD era dynamic.

When the day comes that everybody is happy, maybe then you will. 

But so far, it's been the same old:

"We want an album" -> Album comes out -> "We want the follow-up!" and/or "we want a tour!"
"We want a tour" -> Band tours -> "We want the album"


Some people are never happy.

So I'm convinced that even if GN'R did interviews with everybody in the whole world, toured 360 days of the year and put out videos for every single song on the album, the above mentioned people would still not be happy.

So after those 360 shows, interviews and 14 new music videos, the question would be "When's the next album coming out?".....

One of the problem is that Axl can't decide of everything alone, it's a lot of responsability.

There you go living in your own little bubble again, disregarding facts.

It's true, Axl's the one who's been there since day one and is always the one held responsible for everything involving the band (even when he's not the one making the decision).

But to the point, you're wrong. Here's an example:

The songs were chosen by everyone involved. I didn?t want to do This I love in anyway shape or form and Robin and Caram insisted gaining Tommy?s and the others support.

/jarmo

No no. It's not "it doesn't work", it's "it didn't work". And again I should point out that tons of people from these boards tried hard to help.

Now here were are and some folks are wondering if a tour is going to happen at all. When those people wonder aloud when that might be they're yelled at and told they should just call radio stations and make requests.

Doesn't make sense to me.

[draguns]

I think there are a few reasons why GNR is in the type of situation that it is in today. First, I think the ball was dropped by Axl, management, record company, and Best Buy in terms of marketing. AC/DC had a huge amount of publicity in New York before the album came out.

The second was when members were not allowed to speak about the album before it came out. I think this was a huge mistake by Axl since the mainstream public might have been able to connect with the new members before the album came out. I think that's a big issue right now with GNR. Aside from Axl, you really can't connect  with the current members. You don't get that sense of it being a band partly for that and a revolving set of musicians. There just doesn't seem to be unity involved like it was before.

This bring me to my third point in that this doesn't feel like a GNR type of album. Don't get me wrong, it's a good album. However, I regard it as a more of an Axl Rose solo project than a GNR type album. It's missing that hook and killer riffs that made GNR what it is. I'm hoping that the new guitarist, DJ Ashba, brings that element back to GNR.

Anyway that my 2 cents.

[SMFS]

"It's a great GN'R record," says Zutaut, "but is there a hit single? Cos without the hit, you can't sell 20 million"

[faldor]

I think that's a popular misconception that the members were forbade by Axl to speak about the album.  Didn't Bumblefoot or somone comment in an interview that they were free to say whatever they wanted?

[jarmo]

No no. It's not "it doesn't work", it's "it didn't work". And again I should point out that tons of people from these boards tried hard to help.

It didn't work then, so you should just give up and not try again?

Because you're the one who keep implying that requesting songs equals fans doing the promotion work of the record company....

Now here were are and some folks are wondering if a tour is going to happen at all. When those people wonder aloud when that might be they're yelled at and told they should just call radio stations and make requests.

Doesn't make sense to me.

Doesn't make sense to anybody when you make that kind of assumptions and generalizations. 

It's not about everybody who wonders if there's a tour, it's about a group of people who are never happy.

Now, that's obviously been twisted into meaning everybody. I don't know why.

Either people don't understand English and/or they just don't like being called out.





/jarmo

[russtcb]

No no. It's not "it doesn't work", it's "it didn't work". And again I should point out that tons of people from these boards tried hard to help.

It didn't work then, so you should just give up and not try again?

Because you're the one who keep implying that requesting songs equals fans doing the promotion work of the record company....

Now here were are and some folks are wondering if a tour is going to happen at all. When those people wonder aloud when that might be they're yelled at and told they should just call radio stations and make requests.

Doesn't make sense to me.

Doesn't make sense to anybody when you make that kind of assumptions and generalizations. 

It's not about everybody who wonders if there's a tour, it's about a group of people who are never happy.

Now, that's obviously been twisted into meaning everybody. I don't know why.

Either people don't understand English and/or they just don't like being called out.





/jarmo

Why do you constantly resort to thinly veiled insults? Your recent post about "people with short attention spans" and this "people don't understand English or don't like being called out" stuff.

I like how I'm accused of making assumptions and generalizations as well when I'm one of the more positive people around the GNR boards.

Also, I'm not implying that fans requesting songs equals them doing the work of the record company. My original post was about how ridiculous I thought the idea was that everyone should just accept whatever GNR does and never ask questions and on top of that, they should just request songs and that'll make things all better.

[jarmo]

Why do you constantly resort to thinly veiled insults? Your recent post about "people with short attention spans" and this "people don't understand English or don't like being called out" stuff.

Haha! It's not an insult. Just trying to understand why some of you read what I post and then get all kinds of weird meanings out of it. Things that are pretty much pulled out of thin air!

It's kind of insulting to be told that "I'm bashing all the fans" etc. when in fact I'm not doing anything like that!



If you truly believe something like that, you either don't understand English and/or your attention span isn't long enough to remember what I've said within a post!

Also, I'm not implying that fans requesting songs equals them doing the work of the record company. My original post was about how ridiculous I thought the idea was that everyone should just accept whatever GNR does and never ask questions and on top of that, they should just request songs and that'll make things all better.

It's ironic that a positive person as yourself would get such a negative impression from these posts.

I didn't get that impression at all.

I just got the impression that fans can make a difference if they want to, but many chose not to even try.


As I've said previously, the generalization that song requests will solve all problems in the world isn't even funny.

But if certain elements of the so called fanbase were a bit more constructive, things would definitely be better.



/jarmo

[russtcb]

Why do you constantly resort to thinly veiled insults? Your recent post about "people with short attention spans" and this "people don't understand English or don't like being called out" stuff.

Haha! It's not an insult. Just trying to understand why some of you read what I post and then get all kinds of weird meanings out of it. Things that are pretty much pulled out of thin air!

It's kind of insulting to be told that "I'm bashing all the fans" etc. when in fact I'm not doing anything like that!



If you truly believe something like that, you either don't understand English and/or your attention span isn't long enough to remember what I've said within a post!

Also, I'm not implying that fans requesting songs equals them doing the work of the record company. My original post was about how ridiculous I thought the idea was that everyone should just accept whatever GNR does and never ask questions and on top of that, they should just request songs and that'll make things all better.

It's ironic that a positive person as yourself would get such a negative impression from these posts.

I didn't get that impression at all.

I just got the impression that fans can make a difference if they want to, but many chose not to even try.


As I've said previously, the generalization that song requests will solve all problems in the world isn't even funny.

But if certain elements of the so called fanbase were a bit more constructive, things would definitely be better.



/jarmo

What would you like in a forum? Would you like everyone to think the same way and agree all the time? Isn't it better with discussion and banter?

Let me break this down from my perspective once more. I waited for the album, I got the album. I love the album. I hoped for a tour for many reasons. Meanwhile, I was (and still am) enjoying the album. Clicked on the links, requested the songs, turned friends and co-workers on to the record.

Even when the rumors of a tour started and band members started giving hints, I didn't get overly excited. I know "plans change", more so (IMO) with GNR then any other band I've been a fan of. So I'm prepared to sit back and accept what happens.

The only reason I jumped into this (again) is because I totally disagree with the idea that people aren't fans unless they totally agree with everything an artist does all the time. And that rather than voice their opinion, they should just shut up and start calling radio stations to request songs.

There's nothing broad, generalized, out of thin air, negative or deconstructive about that. It's exactly what was said and I disagree with it.

[-Rob-]

I don't think GnR is dying...
As long as Axl focuses on getting things done, even though it takes a loooooooooooooooong time, and does not say fuck it because of lack of support from his label, things should be fine.

This is the thing that bothers me most. Lack of support from a label is a pretty serious issue, and one that could very well prevent further album releases. Given the period of time that Axl made his label wait on their investment, and then in turn, did absolutely no promotion to support it, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he never receives any type of financial support from them again. In fact, I'd say that's almost guaranteed.

If this other material that he has is incomplete, that means he'd have to tour and complete it on his own dime. Just like the label insisted back in 2005. So, the longer that he doesn't tour (for whatever reason) the longer the delay until the next release. Personally, I think if Axl and his band do continue to make new music, their releases might be more underground, or at least more along the lines of the way Izzy releases his material. I just don't see the demand  being there anymore to warrant high budget support from any label.

[jarmo]

What would you like in a forum? Would you like everyone to think the same way and agree all the time? Isn't it better with discussion and banter?

Generalizations again.

Let me break this down from my perspective once more. I waited for the album, I got the album. I love the album. I hoped for a tour for many reasons. Meanwhile, I was (and still am) enjoying the album. Clicked on the links, requested the songs, turned friends and co-workers on to the record.

Great.  

The only reason I jumped into this (again) is because I totally disagree with the idea that people aren't fans unless they totally agree with everything an artist does all the time. And that rather than voice their opinion, they should just shut up and start calling radio stations to request songs.

We went from requesting songs is compared to doing the promotion work, to requesting songs equals real fan. Awesome!

What's next?


And then you get upset when I break it down to you.


The whole point has been that if people actually used some of that energy they use for just whining about shit, that they have no control over anyway, into something positive, things would be better.


/jarmo

[russtcb]

What would you like in a forum? Would you like everyone to think the same way and agree all the time? Isn't it better with discussion and banter?

Generalizations again.

Let me break this down from my perspective once more. I waited for the album, I got the album. I love the album. I hoped for a tour for many reasons. Meanwhile, I was (and still am) enjoying the album. Clicked on the links, requested the songs, turned friends and co-workers on to the record.

Great.  

The only reason I jumped into this (again) is because I totally disagree with the idea that people aren't fans unless they totally agree with everything an artist does all the time. And that rather than voice their opinion, they should just shut up and start calling radio stations to request songs.

We went from requesting songs is compared to doing the promotion work, to requesting songs equals real fan. Awesome!

What's next?


And then you get upset when I break it down to you.


The whole point has been that if people actually used some of that energy they use for just whining about shit, that they have no control over anyway, into something positive, things would be better.


/jarmo

No, not generalizations... questions. Those were questions. I asked what you would like in a forum and then gave an example that you probably disagree with in hopes that you'd actually answer the question.

As far as people maybe not being a fan if they don't request songs, that is the vibe I got from the original post that caused my reaction. Maybe I was wrong? Maybe that wasn't the intent. Not sure. Either way, it certainly sparked what I feel is an interesting debate.

Also, I apologize if I gave the impression that you're upsetting me. I feel that I simply have a different point of view than you and I'm just expressing it.

[jarmo]

No, not generalizations... questions. Those were questions. I asked what you would like in a forum and then gave an example that you probably disagree with in hopes that you'd actually answer the question.

Was it a serious question?

Sorry, it looked like a joke to me.

As far as people maybe not being a fan if they don't request songs, that is the vibe I got from the original post that caused my reaction. Maybe I was wrong? Maybe that wasn't the intent. Not sure. Either way, it certainly sparked what I feel is an interesting debate.

Yeah, maybe you were wrong.


As I said earlier, it seems like every time somebody says something about a certain group of people within a bigger group, those people feel targeted and get defensive with their "they hate us all" and/or "they say we're not real fans" lines.

To simplify that.

If you have 10 M&M's and you point out that two of them are green, those green ones start yelling "he says were all green!" or "he says we're not real M&M's!" because the person thinks green M&M's aren't as "real" as the rest of the colors in the bag.

If M&M's could talk.




/jarmo

[russtcb]

No, not generalizations... questions. Those were questions. I asked what you would like in a forum and then gave an example that you probably disagree with in hopes that you'd actually answer the question.

Was it a serious question?

Sorry, it looked like a joke to me.

As far as people maybe not being a fan if they don't request songs, that is the vibe I got from the original post that caused my reaction. Maybe I was wrong? Maybe that wasn't the intent. Not sure. Either way, it certainly sparked what I feel is an interesting debate.

Yeah, maybe you were wrong.


As I said earlier, it seems like every time somebody says something about a certain group of people within a bigger group, those people feel targeted and get defensive with their "they hate us all" and/or "they say we're not real fans" lines.

To simplify that.

If you have 10 M&M's and you point out that two of them are green, those green ones start yelling "he says were all green!" or "he says we're not real M&M's!" because the person thinks green M&M's aren't as "real" as the rest of the colors in the bag.

If M&M's could talk.




/jarmo

Again with an attempted insult. Yes it was a serious question and I'm sorry you missed that.

Also, I've never felt that I need anyone else's approval to be viewed as a fan. But that wasn't even what we were talking about. I think you've mistaken me as some sort of spokesperson for people who feel you attack them.

[jarmo]

Again with an attempted insult. Yes it was a serious question and I'm sorry you missed that.

You keep saying you're not offended and you keep getting offended in every other post.

Weird.


No, I don't take a question like "do you want everybody to agree on everything" seriously.

I'm sorry. I didn't think anybody would think that I'm that naive. To think that there's a chance that everybody will agree on every single thing.


I guess it's another one of your "impressions" of what I've said.

Since I've made a point in saying I prefer if people were constructive, I guess in your opinion it means that I think everybody should agree on everything.

Also, I've never felt that I need anyone else's approval to be viewed as a fan. 

Good for you.

You shouldn't.


Because, as I've said many times when I've been attacked for that thing, we all have our opinions on what a fan is. I have mine, you have yours.

Apparently I'm not allowed to have an opinion because I think certain people aren't the kind of people who I would consider "a fan".

 




/jarmo

[russtcb]

Again with an attempted insult. Yes it was a serious question and I'm sorry you missed that.

You keep saying you're not offended and you keep getting offended in every other post.

Weird.


No, I don't take a question like "do you want everybody to agree on everything" seriously.

I'm sorry. I didn't think anybody would think that I'm that naive. To think that there's a chance that everybody will agree on every single thing.


I guess it's another one of your "impressions" of what I've said.

Since I've made a point in saying I prefer if people were constructive, I guess in your opinion it means that I think everybody should agree on everything.

Also, I've never felt that I need anyone else's approval to be viewed as a fan. 

Good for you.

You shouldn't.


Because, as I've said many times when I've been attacked for that thing, we all have our opinions on what a fan is. I have mine, you have yours.

Apparently I'm not allowed to have an opinion because I think certain people aren't the kind of people who I would consider "a fan".

 




/jarmo

Pointing out that you're constantly attempting insults doesn't mean I'm upset or offended, it's simply pointing it out. And the reason why I ask such a question is because you seem to label many people who ask questions as "whiners" and before you get excited with the "generalizations" label again, remember that it's my person observation.

[jarmo]

Pointing out that you're constantly attempting insults doesn't mean I'm upset or offended, it's simply pointing it out.

Because it's a lie.

If I wanted to insult you, I would say it. 

And the reason why I ask such a question is because you seem to label many people who ask questions as "whiners" and before you get excited with the "generalizations" label again, remember that it's my person observation.

Asking questions makes you a curious person.

Asking the same questions over and over, especially if they've been answered, doesn't.


But you have to admit that some people (who see themselves as fans) have a tendency to put a negative spin on everything.



/jarmo