is this english??

[jarmo]

ui ui....another fan bashing and right back into speculation?! i can do that, too 
mod frequently bashing fans to fit his unhappiness needs!

What the fuck are you talking about?

You make smart ass remarks about the band and think nobody will notice? You got your attention just like you wished.


Mod bashing fans?

That's funny.


This from a guy who's bashing the band.



/jarmo

[GNR_Green]

At times it seems as if Axl doesn't even care and that drives a lot of fans nuts and we get the attitude like, why should we care if they don't?

You choose to care.   No one else makes that choice.    Whether or not Axl cares, thats his own choice.    Doesn't bother me in the least.

I think the problem is that Axl has more or less promised things like videos, tours and bonus discs over the years and most of it generally fails to materialise.  Like D has said, the album launch has been a missed opportunity.  I actually don't care about who's the biggest band in the world, and I think it's largely irrelevant.  The record label would surely not stand in Axl's way if he really wanted GN'R to be a 'global brand' or whatever shite marketing people like to call it.  Maybe Axl just isn't that interested, and if so I wish he'd just let us know rather than dangling the proverbial carrot.  People have every right to moan about that.  If people on fan sites expect something from GN'R it's because of things Axl has said himself.  Remember that the general population have probably only just realised that Slash isn't in the band, and they also probably have no expectations.

[The Glow Inc.]

From Axl's mouth :

As for selling more records it?d be nice to be in a position to possibly do so at some point but that?s never been my base reasoning. I would think it fits into not feeling I shouldn?t be forced to throw away possible opportunities in a hostile attempted takeover. I believe I should fight for Guns in a patriotic sense or sense of loyalty or honor. Not just my vision or direction for Guns as those things can evolve and you can make forward moving positive compromises by what others bring to the table but I mean more as in what principles I feel were important to Guns in regard to an overall commitment to the music.

It helped us get here but most of that was with Universal and the positives of that wore off years ago until recently and after the initial run it?ll be about the music and us. Then it?s about touring and there?s not a question the name?s helped at most everywhere but not so much the states. With that it comes down to the strength or quality of the performance. Having the name kicks your ass every night as it?s not some side project or something u can fuck off in. You don?t deliver u get your ass handed to u. So it makes us work much harder than I feel we would outside of it and it hasn?t been too ugly yet.

Basically, he's aware that Guns are no longer what they used to be and that Geffen don't try to make it the biggest band in the world anymore. His commitment to the b(r)and now lies in delivering quality music and quality performances. I would say GnR DOES deliver when it comes to that. Now I also have the feeling that GnR could have been huge again if ChiDem had been released in 2002 because at that time everybody seemed to care about the band even though there was a lot of hate too ( Axl is also aware of that, read his whole post again ) but I really wonder if ChiDem would have been a better record than it is now. I really don't think so.
I guess that it comes to a balance of fame/mainstream recognition and quality music and performances. Axl chose to care about the latter and I'm not really sure that he could have had both despite additional promotion/interviews. He seems really aware of the public attention towards his band ( for instance when he talks about how the GnR name brought lots of people to the show in Europe but failed to do so in the U.S during the 2006 and 2007 tours ).

To put it in a nutshell : Axl just wants to deliver quality music and performances for the people who really care for him and his band and to ensure the quality of the GnR brand. Everything else  ( CD selling a gazillion copies, GnR going to the top of their game again, what fans of the classic lineup think of the new band etc ) is either secondary or not worth giving a fuck about anymore.

[russtcb]

Ok so don't comment on the tour that hasn't happened yet. What about the promotion that could've been done by GNR (not Uni or Best Buy) so far?

Promoting the album without touring and without the backing from the record company?





/jarmo
[/quote]

How have GNR themselves promoted this record since it came out, that's my question.

[jarmo]

Now I also have the feeling that GnR could have been huge again if ChiDem had been released in 2002 because at that time everybody seemed to care about the band even though there was a lot of hate too ( Axl is also aware of that, read his whole post again ) but I really wonder if ChiDem would have been a better record than it is now. I really don't think so.

On one hand, record sales were probably bigger in 2002 than they were in 2008.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if interest in GN'R was bigger in 2002 compared to 2008.

Axl just wants to deliver quality music and performances for the people who really care for him and his band and to ensure the quality of the GnR brand.

I agree.


Some of you might not like the way he does things, but the end results are worth it in my opinion.

For example, you might not like the fact that the band's shows don't end before 11PM...But you sure as hell get your money's worth.

How have GNR themselves promoted this record since it came out, that's my question.

Interviews from Axl, Tommy etc.?



/jarmo

[GypsySoul]

My local radio stations are great. They play plenty of Guns N' Roses. They just don't play any Chinese Democracy because the label and the band don't promote it in any way, shape or form. One guy calling them constantly isn't going to change that if he's the only guy who wants to hear it.

no tour, no video, no interviews etc = no public interest

bingo.

Bullshit. 

It would have a dominos (not the pizza) affect.  If each one of us called our local radio stations and requested Chinese Democracy and Better then thousands and thousands of peoples all over the world who aren't familiar with the new material will be exposed to it thereby creating public interest!!!  We know how great the new material is so a little exposure like this to the listening public would IMO go a lot further to bring in new fans and promote the album than say a tour (which would be great too) that mostly only current fans attend ... or a video (which would be great too) that even current fans would be hard pressed to find on t.v. or youtube or wherever they play music videos now-a-days.

The interviews are already happening.  I know.  I typed out nine pages of Brain's recent interview. 

[russtcb]

Now I also have the feeling that GnR could have been huge again if ChiDem had been released in 2002 because at that time everybody seemed to care about the band even though there was a lot of hate too ( Axl is also aware of that, read his whole post again ) but I really wonder if ChiDem would have been a better record than it is now. I really don't think so.

On one hand, record sales were probably bigger in 2002 than they were in 2008.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if interest in GN'R was bigger in 2002 compared to 2008.

Axl just wants to deliver quality music and performances for the people who really care for him and his band and to ensure the quality of the GnR brand.

I agree.


Some of you might not like the way he does things, but the end results are worth it in my opinion.

For example, you might not like the fact that the band's shows don't end before 11PM...But you sure as hell get your money's worth.

How have GNR themselves promoted this record since it came out, that's my question.

Interviews from Axl, Tommy etc.?



/jarmo

Right. I'm aware of what "promotion" has been done by the band. I'm asking what your opinion is of it.

My local radio stations are great. They play plenty of Guns N' Roses. They just don't play any Chinese Democracy because the label and the band don't promote it in any way, shape or form. One guy calling them constantly isn't going to change that if he's the only guy who wants to hear it.

no tour, no video, no interviews etc = no public interest

bingo.

Bullshit. 

It would have a dominos (not the pizza) affect.  If each one of us called our local radio stations and requested Chinese Democracy and Better then thousands and thousands of peoples all over the world who aren't familiar with the new material will be exposed to it thereby creating public interest!!!  We know how great the new material is so a little exposure like this to the listening public would IMO go a lot further to bring in new fans and promote the album than say a tour (which would be great too) that mostly only current fans attend ... or a video (which would be great too) that even current fans would be hard pressed to find on t.v. or youtube or wherever they play music videos now-a-days.

The interviews are already happening.  I know.  I typed out nine pages of Brain's recent interview. 

I'm sorry if you truly believe that A) the fans should be the ones promoting this product and B) that one person calling a radio station would make any difference.

If that were true then why do all these ridiculous threads urging fans to bombard websites and radio stations with calls and votes for GNR not accomplish anything? When the album dropped people from these boards were all over tons of radio station website polls voting in favor of the new material and so on. None of that seems to have done anything so please explain to me how 1 person calling a radio station to request it would help?

[jarmo]

Right. I'm aware of what "promotion" has been done by the band. I'm asking what your opinion is of it.

As I've said, there's not a whole lot a band can do when the record company isn't doing anything.

They can tour and do interviews. They've done one of those and hopefully will tour.

I guess they could put out videos for the fans to watch. Will it do any difference in the long run if there's nothing backing up the videos from the record company?

Do you make videos when there's no support for the singles? Do you keep doing interviews when there's nothing going on at the record company?



The biggest promotional thing would be a tour as far as I can tell. It should generate more interest than a video..... Or interviews.



Your disbelief in the power of requests is also somewhat amusing. Did you know Welcome To The Jungle started receiving airplay on MTV after people started requesting it?

I'm aware that it's not 1987 anymore, but the point is, if there's demand, somebody will fill that demand.



A band like KISS is taking requests from people to determine where they'll tour.

I guess their fans don't think "I'm not gonna do the work of the booking agent. Let them sort out their own tours and I'll just buy the tickets".



How do you determine an artist's popularity today? You used to be able to tell by looking at album/single sales and radio play. Today albums don't sell and it seems like GN'R fans aren't interested in "promoting the album".

How do you know that the band has any fans in area X when there's no proof of them being there?


It's gonna be interesting to see where the band tours.





/jarmo

[-Rob-]

There's obviously something wrong. If there wasn't, we wouldn't still be speculating as to whether or not a tour will actually take place in 2009. Given the length of time it took for this album to be released, you would think things would have been somewhat more organized. I'm still not convinced Axl was 100% ready for it to come out when it did. I know that he said that he was happy with the final product, but I believe Skewrl's 9 song leak last summer pushed Axl and his mgmt to change gears. I could be wrong, but I think those leaks occuring have alot to do with why that album is on the shelf right now. With 3/4 of the album already on the internet, what other choice did they have?

As far as I'm concerned, the ball was dropped on everyone's part. Universal, BB, and the band all could have done something to help promote this album , but for whatever reason, all seemed content with just letting it fade into obscurity. Personally, I think BB and Universal's lack of interest would have made me try that much harder if I was Axl. I know he isn't big on media interviews, but getting out there a little more was an option that he had. My real concern is that he will have an extremely difficult time ever getting an advance from the label to complete another album. And that?s assuming he actually has an interest in releasing more albums.

[ppbebe]

I for one value voluntary agents like fans word of mouth more than commercial ones.

democracy that is of the people, by the people, for the people and shall not perish from the earth.

[russtcb]

Right. I'm aware of what "promotion" has been done by the band. I'm asking what your opinion is of it.

As I've said, there's not a whole lot a band can do when the record company isn't doing anything.

They can tour and do interviews. They've done one of those and hopefully will tour.

I guess they could put out videos for the fans to watch. Will it do any difference in the long run if there's nothing backing up the videos from the record company?

Do you make videos when there's no support for the singles? Do you keep doing interviews when there's nothing going on at the record company?



The biggest promotional thing would be a tour as far as I can tell. It should generate more interest than a video..... Or interviews.



Your disbelief in the power of requests is also somewhat amusing. Did you know Welcome To The Jungle started receiving airplay on MTV after people started requesting it?

I'm aware that it's not 1987 anymore, but the point is, if there's demand, somebody will fill that demand.



A band like KISS is taking requests from people to determine where they'll tour.

I guess their fans don't think "I'm not gonna do the work of the booking agent. Let them sort out their own tours and I'll just buy the tickets".



How do you determine an artist's popularity today? You used to be able to tell by looking at album/single sales and radio play. Today albums don't sell and it seems like GN'R fans aren't interested in "promoting the album".

How do you know that the band has any fans in area X when there's no proof of them being there?


It's gonna be interesting to see where the band tours.





/jarmo

Did you see my point about all these threads at various boards with links to polls and such? I don't think my disbelief in the power of requests is amusing based on how that worked out. Radio station after radio station had their online polls "rigged" (for lack of a better term) by GNR online fans. What did that accomplish?

I guess in the end we just disagree on what/if the fans should be resonsible for making this music successful.

[GypsySoul]

I guess in the end we just disagree on what/if the fans should be resonsible for making this music successful.

Maybe "responsible" isn't the right word but it is ALL about the fans.  If the fans don't like or want to hear the music, than it's NOT successful.

[ppbebe]

To be honest, I don't care where

Do you wanna go with GNR?

say yeah!

[-Rob-]

I guess in the end we just disagree on what/if the fans should be resonsible for making this music successful.

Maybe "responsible" isn't the right word but it is ALL about the fans.  If the fans don't like or want to hear the music, than it's NOT successful.

If the band doesn't get out there to promote their work, it makes it difficult for the fans to know that there is something out there that could be liked.

[GypsySoul]

If the band doesn't get out there to promote their work, it makes it difficult for the fans to know that there is something out there that could be liked.

We the fans already know what is out there and we the fans already know IT IS GREAT!!!

Now it's all about spreading the word by doing stuff like making sure the radio stations give the songs the airplay they deserve!!!

[ppbebe]

If the band doesn't get out there to promote their work, it makes it difficult for the fans to know that there is something out there that could be liked.

so?  Will you go with this band or not?

[jarmo]

Did you see my point about all these threads at various boards with links to polls and such? I don't think my disbelief in the power of requests is amusing based on how that worked out. Radio station after radio station had their online polls "rigged" (for lack of a better term) by GNR online fans. What did that accomplish?

I hope somebody took notice.


To me it proved that there are fans who do give a fuck instead of just sitting in front of the screens whining.... So personally I think that's a good sign.  

I guess in the end we just disagree on what/if the fans should be resonsible for making this music successful.

No. Because nobody is saying that. It's just your interpretation.

If requesting songs equals the fans are responsible for the promotion, it's always been like that.

It's just a ridiculous assumption to even assume that's what I mean.


Fans can do a lot of positive things. Unfortunately (but not surprising) many choose not to and just focus on the negativity.

These are the people who are never happy. And by saying that I'm being accused of "bashing the fanbase".

Hilarious in itself since that means I'm bashing myself along with all those who do give a fuck and support the band through everything.





/jarmo

[SMFS]

Right. I'm aware of what "promotion" has been done by the band. I'm asking what your opinion is of it.

As I've said, there's not a whole lot a band can do when the record company isn't doing anything.

They can tour and do interviews. They've done one of those and hopefully will tour.

I guess they could put out videos for the fans to watch. Will it do any difference in the long run if there's nothing backing up the videos from the record company?

Do you make videos when there's no support for the singles? Do you keep doing interviews when there's nothing going on at the record company?



The biggest promotional thing would be a tour as far as I can tell. It should generate more interest than a video..... Or interviews.



Your disbelief in the power of requests is also somewhat amusing. Did you know Welcome To The Jungle started receiving airplay on MTV after people started requesting it?

I'm aware that it's not 1987 anymore, but the point is, if there's demand, somebody will fill that demand.



A band like KISS is taking requests from people to determine where they'll tour.

I guess their fans don't think "I'm not gonna do the work of the booking agent. Let them sort out their own tours and I'll just buy the tickets".



How do you determine an artist's popularity today? You used to be able to tell by looking at album/single sales and radio play. Today albums don't sell and it seems like GN'R fans aren't interested in "promoting the album".

How do you know that the band has any fans in area X when there's no proof of them being there?


It's gonna be interesting to see where the band tours.





/jarmo

You can't be serious.

Last time I checked, Axl called us all idiots for wanting to hear new music from him.

The band has nothing but utter contempt for their fans.

We are some of the greatest and most loyal rock 'n' roll fans on Earth.

We stuck with Axl through years of lies and false promises, no-shows and silence.

We are still here because we love the man and his gift.

HOW DARE YOU INSINUATE THAT THE FANS ARE TO BLAME FOR THIS ALBUM'S LACK OF SUCCESS?

Are you kidding?

I will be the first one signing up to participate in a dialog with the band re: where they would tour, or anything else.

Seriously, /jarmo, you've got to be kidding!

Stop blaming the record co., stop blaming the fans.

[-Rob-]

We the fans already know what is out there and we the fans already know IT IS GREAT!!!

Now it's all about spreading the word by doing stuff like making sure the radio stations give the songs the airplay they deserve!!!

My point exactly. Except I think this "spreading the word" should start with Axl and his bandmembers. Being the business professional that I am requires that I frequently travel to try and sell my company's services. Customer referrals are great, but it certainly isn't our top means of promotion.

I'm not saying that a fan can't call the local radio station to request his favorite band's songs, but it is kind of disheartening when the guy responsible for that art didn't even see reason to make it known (a tv, radio interview, something). A good friend of mine has a friend that is a known Chicago rock station DJ. As he's explained over drinks, it takes more than a few caller requests before something is considered "in demand". And according to him, Chinese D was not. The responsibility starts with the artist(s) and label. If they don't "appear" interested, their fans probably won't either.

[SMFS]

If we didn't know better, Axl's behaviour (or lack of) would make us think that he was ashamed of the record.