GUNS N' ROSES NAMES DJ ASHBA AS BAND'S NEWEST AXEMAN

[EstrangedBrazil]

oh, and sorry, to be on topic:

Ashba seems to be able to handle GNR songs as far as skill, i just hate the Emo look lol

i think he'll do alright, as much as i liked Finck i dont think he's irreplaceable... as long as Paul Huge never comes anywhere GNR again, i think i'll be happy

[axl2]

The band as GNR is gone. GNR wasn't some kind of organization it was a band. To me it was holding on by a thread when Izzy left. It died when all the members left. The material on the albums will show it's not the same band, obviously. The music is good in both regimes but the old GNR were a totally different animal, and deserves the respect to be considered the real GNR.

the old GNR is simply that, the old GNR.   To call it the real GNR is ignoring reality and the present.   Don't be that guy.

Saying GNR is just Axl is ridiculous.

You're right, theres 7 other guys in the band.

He's arguably the biggest part, but they'll never write material comparable to what the original and real GNR did. Nobody can.

Thats a pretty narrow minded way to look at things.  Nobody can?   Nothing is impossible, and IMO many of the songs on CD are some of the best GnR songs ever written.  I'm not the only one with this opinion, so you can take your "facts" and shove it.

you don't by chance sport a mullet... do you?

GNR was a blues based rock n roll band that covered a lot of ground. I already stated the material in both versions are great. But as far as I'm concerned it's next to impossible to create the anthems that was SCOM and PC and WTTJ. Just not going to happen. And NR and Don't Cry are other songs that I just don't see anyone matching, ever. The bar was set insanely high. Axl and "GNR" can create amazing music. But it's never going to be on the same level or heard 20 years down the road. At least not the songs on CD. Better is the highest quality song and I put that a bit under past GNR material.

And no I do not sport a mullet. I already told you I liked the new songs too. But I'm not stupid either. And Old GNR would have likely been the next Rollingstones had they not have blown their chance, and I don't really blame Axl for that because I think he has some good ideas.

But GNR Was Axl, Izzy, Slash, Steven, Duff bringing all their elements into one and someone creating this amazing blues based HARD rock sound. They covered many different aspects including softer songs, southern rock vibes, straight forward blues, 12 bar blues you name it they did it.

It's cool to like Old and New GNR I like them both, but to diss on people that like the Old GNR better,by calling them mullet heads is disgraceful.

Like old Guns all you want and i want to praise your good use of "I" and "ME" in most of your text... as far as YOU are concerned,  you can't re-create SCOM , PC and WTTJ and while it is impossible to RE-CREATE, i like some songs on CD better than all these 3 songs... its the beauty of individuality

So the only I or ME missing in your post is when you say Guns is Axl, Izzy, Slash, Steven, Duff. That might be your opinion and you are entitled to it. but dont state is as fact. I, for one, think Axl is a genius and his work is always what i relate to the most, meaning, you could have Ghandi playing bass and Bush beating them drums on November Rain, it would still be a masterpiece. Is Slash talented? Yah, sure, played mean guitar in NR and Estranged, 2 songs that i will always love, but as much as u might or not like guys like Bumble or Bucket, you can't say they don't have talent. They might not write the kind of music you like, but thats another story... and Slash, as far as im concerned only wrote CRAP aside from a few songs on the 1st snakepit album. and most of those are only mediocre

Oh, and in my opinion Steven is a lucky guy who was at the right place and at the right time. He has nothing special, and i think he'd be homeless or dead if he wasnt lucky enough to be friends with slash when gnr started
Izzy = very good song writer, Duff = ok guy, i always pictured him as an yes man tho (but thats my imagination, i'll giv u that lol)

Duff brought a bit of punk into the band. I never said one bad thing about Ron Thal or Buckethead or anyone. In fact I "know" they are great guitarists, better technically then Slash, But yes that's only half the battle.

I like basically every song off CD as well. But none of them are ever going to be as remembered for being as revolutionary as the songs that we are talking about here. There's a fine line. The drumming on NR makes the song early, the way that the drums are almost too simple. Less is more, and that idea was actually Ax's idea on the drums.

Slash needs writers around him to succeed. The reason GNR was so great is because they had a perfect blend of everything. Slash brought in a real creamy, smooth bluesy ballsy tone that revolutionized a lot of guitar going forward. Izzy was more punk meets classic rock, he filled in the holes with his rhythm playing where he'd play a lot of off beat stuff, similar to what Adler did. On Paradise City, the intro drum part is so simple yet amazing, it doesn't add TOO much. Just enough to make you feel the new direction of the song. Axl was interesting, you could compare him to Robert Plante, Mic Jagger, Jim Morrison but he had a lot of Freddie Mercury in him as well as far as having a more classical knowledge musically. Duff as I said earlier brought some punk influences to the band, evident on It's So Easy and maybe Right Next Door To Hell. When you blended it all together you got a classic rock band that was very simple, but yet covered many grounds on each album.

That's what GNR is. That's why we are all here, that's what they created and will possibly going to the HOF for. You can replace member after member. But there really is only one piece left, but it's a huge one in Axl.

[SirTed]

Tough to argue with Axl2 on that one. And anyone who doesn't think that Duff knew his shit and brought a lot to the table is crazy. Read Tommy's new interview from Bass Player, he gives serious props to him, and I think that's awesome.

[EstrangedBrazil]

Never said Duff doesnt know shit, SirTed, read again.

And axl2, i totally agree with you on skills are not everything... not even half of everything really

the only thing i do disagree with you is when you state that GNR is axl, duff, slash, izzy n steven. i understand your opinion and i merely disagree to it. GNR is an entity that axl held together like none of the older members could. And when i mean held together, i mean that CD to me is as great as the other albuns and i like some songs in it better than some songs on the older albuns. including wttj, scom and pc

Now, is CD different? of course! can you compare how this new music will impact the industry? no, but theres a lot of factors involved other than the 5 original members. even with slash i dont think they could ever release an album with the impact of AFD

[axl2]

Never said Duff doesnt know shit, SirTed, read again.

And axl2, i totally agree with you on skills are not everything... not even half of everything really

the only thing i do disagree with you is when you state that GNR is axl, duff, slash, izzy n steven. i understand your opinion and i merely disagree to it. GNR is an entity that axl held together like none of the older members could. And when i mean held together, i mean that CD to me is as great as the other albuns and i like some songs in it better than some songs on the older albuns. including wttj, scom and pc

Now, is CD different? of course! can you compare how this new music will impact the industry? no, but theres a lot of factors involved other than the 5 original members. even with slash i dont think they could ever release an album with the impact of AFD

SCOM is like the Satisfaction by the Stones of GNR. EVERYONE loves it, expect for a lot of GNR fans. Just because it's played soooo much and it's not like we haven't heard it 100000000 times.

I think with the original GNR the new album would sound much like Illusions, a little different maybe, in feel mostly. That's the art of a band though seeing them explore into different styles. If they did the exact same songs as there are on CD, they would sound different. Unfortunately I don't think the other guys (mostly slash) wanted to explore. Stones did it, Zeppelin did it, Pink Floyd ect. It seems like only Axl wanted to do this and that's why we are where we are. 

I don't have anything really against the New GNR and that they still play. I like the songs, But for me it's not quite as good as the old bands songs. But you have to realize just how high the bar was raised by the original GNR. No rock band has been able to equal it or duplicate what they did even with the Illusions albums since.

[EstrangedBrazil]

gotcha, you're entitled to feel that way, its a matter of taste...

i probably dont feel the same you do cuz i fucking hate the stones n zep, and im not too crazy about PF LOL

i also think UYI 2 is GNR's best album, whereas AFD is the most common choice. This might sound cliche, but well, its true in my case: I like every single GNR song there is, including everytyhing in CD.. might like CD better than AFD, but still not sure lol

[SirTed]

Now...now.

I didn't mean to stir any pots here. All I know is, I read a post that said " I just saw Duff as a yes-man". I view this as a disparaging remark. All I said was, anybody who says he didn't know his shit is crazy. What I mean to say is, I see his contributions to the music as a lot more than being a yes-man. Not to mention the fact that I think beyond his work with GNR, he has proven to be a talented musican, and I'd like that to  be reconized. That's all.

[cjmax02]

hm, new guy. 

kinda cute, too. :3

if he's got the talent...why not? 


easy come, easy go...

[greekmule]

I don't understand that since the two of you are upset that the band had to replace members leaving, why are you still here?

Haven't you had enough?

Are you just here to point out how much better things were in 2002?

We just got the album and some of you are already talking about how they have to put out a new one!

The ironic thing is that even if you're so unhappy, we both know you'll be at the next GN'R show....




/jarmo

you're right, i will be at gn'r's next show, but that proves nothing... just follow me on this one, most fans in here would go see a Gn'r Concert or any former member's show in support or outta curiosity at the very  least. The reason one goes to a show could go from simple interest to damn right fanatism for other people.

The difference here is that some years ago i did believe in the band as a team and i did land on the fanatics side of the audience, now i don't, because regardless of who's in there now, he can leave tomorrow and we're not supposed to care because Gn'r is supposed to be something beyond members.

And you know what? i still get that, i couldn't really ask gn'r to stop because Robin left, or any other member, but i do ask myself why everyone seems to quit this band, it's a pattern, and of course you and me may come to different conclusions as to why this may happen and i do think you may be more close to the source than i am, but still you're just listening to one side.

Sure at the end of the day you'll say i'm not a real fan or compare me to the slash supporters ( when i'll i'm doing is questioning whether or not it's ethical for them to sell a band idea regardless of who's in it and the fact that everyone keeps on  leaving the band) and truth of the matter is i hate slash fanatics because by definition they wouldn't be arguing with logic but with passion and i even see Slash like Axl sees him, i don't think he's that great now-a-days, he was great back in gn'r though. The cancer part, well i was never friends with him so i can't really say.

Now here where we see things differently and from what i see, why most people seem to give you a hard time with your rationalization of why gn'r is so great.

First of all i never saw you once question Axl on anything, which doesn't mean you didn't, it means i just don't see it on your daily posts and that leads to something profoundly disturbing that is to have a blind faith on someone. And sure you may have your reasons, but most people here don't even believe every word Slash says, so why shouldn't axl have an agenda? doesn't he ever lie? is he a saint? no, he's human and flawed like all of us and you know that everyone lies to save their ass, but then again this has nothing to do with what led to the breakup of the band, for me it's more about why people left in the new incarnation of the band and not just robin.

So that's where i think diferently, i love gn'r, or Axl's Band, but i can't help to think for myself and question everything. i don't see it as a bad thing because the fact that you question something at the very least shows you care enough to think about it and get frustrated and how things turn out in the end and if we look in history nothing good ever came from using blind faith to support your line of thought.

I like Gn'r for what they were up until the last tour, i might even very well like the next incarnation of the band, but the fact that it's ever changing makes me see them as something other than a real band, and that's just how i feel, not necessarily how it might be, but most people perceive it that way as well so that's gotta count for something.

And this also has nothing to do with Ashba, fact of the matter is i could actually like his input to the band and start to think of him as a real member and then all of a sudden he's out and someone new takes his place, well that just makes me very sceptical on even becoming a fan of the guys that are in the band now, because all this teaches is they are not special because they can and will be easily replaced.

I think that by having an ever revolving line up they make it hard on themselves to have people follow them as a whole, because at the end of the day the only one you can expect to walk onstage will be Axl; because i doubt he'll ever be replaced. unless gn'r are goin into a strange band concept like kiss where it could go on without any original member because kiss is such a household name as paul stanley said recently... well that just scares me on so many levels.

great post meanbone

on a side note, the comparison of a band to a football team from a fan point of view is ridiculous. Fans of football teams are fans of the "jersey", that doesn't happen with music fans. If Man Utd and Liverpool traded all of their players Man Utd fans would still support Man Utd and Liverpool fans would still support Liverpool. Cause football fans are fans of the jersey not the actual players; one day you "boo" a certain player cause he plays for the opponent team and next day you support him cause he plays for your club.

Music doesn't work like that. If one day Metallica and Guns traded all their musicians guns fans would not support Hetfied, Ulrich and co just because their band name is gnr; same thing with metallica fans.

I like the current version of guns n roses simply due to the fact that Axl sings and writes for them, if he left I couldn't care less. And I don't care whether he calls his band gnr or anything else, cause I am a fan of his voice and his music, I don't care what the name of the band is. Of course I know that this version has nothing to do with the band I grew up with and idolized when I was younger and of course I am not that naive to think that gnr is just Axl's vision. That would be disrespectful to both past and present members. Old and new gnr are totally different bands that happen to share the same frontman and the same name (and for the latter I don't give a damn)

[draguns]

The band as GNR is gone. GNR wasn't some kind of organization it was a band. To me it was holding on by a thread when Izzy left. It died when all the members left. The material on the albums will show it's not the same band, obviously. The music is good in both regimes but the old GNR were a totally different animal, and deserves the respect to be considered the real GNR.

the old GNR is simply that, the old GNR.   To call it the real GNR is ignoring reality and the present.   Don't be that guy.

Saying GNR is just Axl is ridiculous.

You're right, theres 7 other guys in the band.

He's arguably the biggest part, but they'll never write material comparable to what the original and real GNR did. Nobody can.

Thats a pretty narrow minded way to look at things.  Nobody can?   Nothing is impossible, and IMO many of the songs on CD are some of the best GnR songs ever written.  I'm not the only one with this opinion, so you can take your "facts" and shove it.

you don't by chance sport a mullet... do you?

GNR was a blues based rock n roll band that covered a lot of ground. I already stated the material in both versions are great. But as far as I'm concerned it's next to impossible to create the anthems that was SCOM and PC and WTTJ. Just not going to happen. And NR and Don't Cry are other songs that I just don't see anyone matching, ever. The bar was set insanely high. Axl and "GNR" can create amazing music. But it's never going to be on the same level or heard 20 years down the road. At least not the songs on CD. Better is the highest quality song and I put that a bit under past GNR material.

And no I do not sport a mullet. I already told you I liked the new songs too. But I'm not stupid either. And Old GNR would have likely been the next Rollingstones had they not have blown their chance, and I don't really blame Axl for that because I think he has some good ideas.

But GNR Was Axl, Izzy, Slash, Steven, Duff bringing all their elements into one and someone creating this amazing blues based HARD rock sound. They covered many different aspects including softer songs, southern rock vibes, straight forward blues, 12 bar blues you name it they did it.

It's cool to like Old and New GNR I like them both, but to diss on people that like the Old GNR better,by calling them mullet heads is disgraceful.

Like old Guns all you want and i want to praise your good use of "I" and "ME" in most of your text... as far as YOU are concerned,  you can't re-create SCOM , PC and WTTJ and while it is impossible to RE-CREATE, i like some songs on CD better than all these 3 songs... its the beauty of individuality

So the only I or ME missing in your post is when you say Guns is Axl, Izzy, Slash, Steven, Duff. That might be your opinion and you are entitled to it. but dont state is as fact. I, for one, think Axl is a genius and his work is always what i relate to the most, meaning, you could have Ghandi playing bass and Bush beating them drums on November Rain, it would still be a masterpiece. Is Slash talented? Yah, sure, played mean guitar in NR and Estranged, 2 songs that i will always love, but as much as u might or not like guys like Bumble or Bucket, you can't say they don't have talent. They might not write the kind of music you like, but thats another story... and Slash, as far as im concerned only wrote CRAP aside from a few songs on the 1st snakepit album. and most of those are only mediocre

Oh, and in my opinion Steven is a lucky guy who was at the right place and at the right time. He has nothing special, and i think he'd be homeless or dead if he wasnt lucky enough to be friends with slash when gnr started
Izzy = very good song writer, Duff = ok guy, i always pictured him as an yes man tho (but thats my imagination, i'll giv u that lol)

Duff brought a bit of punk into the bad. I never said one bad thing about Ron Thal or Buckethead or anyone. In fact I "know" they are great guitarists, better technically then Slash, But yes that's only half the battle.

I like basically every song off CD as well. But none of them are ever going to be as remembered for being as revolutionary as the songs that we are talking about here. There's a fine line. The drumming on NR makes the song early, the way that the drums are almost too simple. Less is more, and that idea was actually Ax's idea on the drums.

Slash needs writers around him to succeed. The reason GNR was so great is because they had a perfect blend of everything. Slash brought in a real creamy, smooth bluesy ballsy tone that revolutionized a lot of guitar going forward. Izzy was more punk meets classic rock, he filled in the holes with his rhythm playing where he'd play a lot of off beat stuff, similar to what Adler did. On Paradise City, the intro drum part is so simple yet amazing, it doesn't add TOO much. Just enough to make you feel the new direction of the song. Axl was interesting, you could compare him to Robert Plante, Mic Jagger, Jim Morrison but he had a lot of Freddie Mercury in him as well as far as having a more classical knowledge musically. Duff as I said earlier brought some punk influences to the band, evident on It's So Easy and maybe Right Next Door To Hell. When you blended it all together you got a classic rock band that was very simple, but yet covered many grounds on each album.

That's what GNR is. That's why we are all here, that's what they created and will possibly going to the HOF for. You can replace member after member. But there really is only one piece left, but it's a huge one in Axl.

Axl2, I  think this is a really great post. it's one of the most well-written posts on here.

[jarmo]

on a side note, the comparison of a band to a football team from a fan point of view is ridiculous. Fans of football teams are fans of the "jersey", that doesn't happen with music fans. If Man Utd and Liverpool traded all of their players Man Utd fans would still support Man Utd and Liverpool fans would still support Liverpool. Cause football fans are fans of the jersey not the actual players; one day you "boo" a certain player cause he plays for the opponent team and next day you support him cause he plays for your club.

Well it does work like that for some.

Some are fans of GN'R (the name of the team in the sports world)....

Obviously then it gets a bit different because even though you could compare Axl to a coach (person who leads the band/team), you can always replace a coach and get similar results, but you can't replace Axl because he's unique. A lot of people identify the team by hearing his voice. Not all sports fans identify the team by seeing the coach on the bench.



Everybody who keeps questioning why people leave GN'R, that's life. Things change.

You just have to learn how to deal with it and move on.

To expect people to stick together just to please you is kinda naive.

Some bands do that, and I guess whatever works for them...


Why do people leave bands?

Maybe they thought things would be better for them elsewhere? It doesn't have to mean you're unhappy in the current situation, you just think the grass is greener elsewhere.

Maybe they weren't interested in a long term commitment? Some don't know what they wanna do in a year, a month or even next week.

Maybe they weren't interested in spending time on tour? Not everybody is into that.

Maybe people have different priorities?


There's all kinds of reasons that have nothing to do with the others in the band.

Yet people are often quick to point fingers at those who didn't leave. "It must be tough being in that band" etc.... Or maybe some just don't have what it takes to be in a big band as GN'R?




Note: With that said, I think those of you who are upset that the band's line up has changed can continue your discussion in the Dead Horse section since it has very little to do with DJ Ashba. 





/jarmo

[gunns1]

Im all for him if he can help write some creative new material with the band , as well as add to the gnr live experience.

My only concern is, that with the new material they have already 'potentially' recorded for the next cd,
that Ashba doesn't record over too many of Buckets parts, that is only of course if he can improve them.

[greekmule]

Well it does work like that for some.

Some are fans of GN'R (the name of the team in the sports world)....

Obviously then it gets a bit different because even though you could compare Axl to a coach (person who leads the band/team), you can always replace a coach and get similar results, but you can't replace Axl because he's unique. A lot of people identify the team by hearing his voice. Not all sports fans identify the team by seeing the coach on the bench. Wink

well to me it's not actually like that.

if nsync and gnr exchanged all their members I would support nsync and hate gnr cause I am a fan of the music, not a fan of the name on the jersey. and I know this example is extreme but I am using it as a "proof of concept".

you are using the sports analogy but you take into account that Axl is irreplacable, but in sports noone is irreplacable. the best player/leader of a team can get traded but fans continue to support the team cause of the jersey.

[Jim Bob]

Im all for him if he can help write some creative new material with the band , as well as add to the gnr live experience.

My only concern is, that with the new material they have already 'potentially' recorded for the next cd,
that Ashba doesn't record over too many of Buckets parts, that is only of course if he can improve them.

I'm sure the band is capable of deciding how to handle their own recording process. 

Me, I'm just hoping I get to see GnR this year.

[EstrangedBrazil]

Now...now.

I didn't mean to stir any pots here. All I know is, I read a post that said " I just saw Duff as a yes-man". I view this as a disparaging remark. All I said was, anybody who says he didn't know his shit is crazy. What I mean to say is, I see his contributions to the music as a lot more than being a yes-man. Not to mention the fact that I think beyond his work with GNR, he has proven to be a talented musican, and I'd like that to  be reconized. That's all.

that explains it, you misread what i said... never said hes JUST a yes man, said i felt he was a yes man... did he have creative input? yah, but I FEEL (and that is made clear when i said thats my imagination) that he wouldnt question axl or slash if he felt he had to

again, i never wrote a song with duff (can you believe that?? LOL) but its just the impression i always had, and im pretty sure that was clear, but if it wasnt, it should be now

and again, im not trying to get into battle or nothing, i just didnt agree with the statement that GNR is axl, duff....

[Jim Bob]

picked up the sixx:am heroin diaries album today.   I've always liked Nikki Sixx and since DJ is on the album and I liked that Life is Beautiful song, I figured might as well check out the whole thing.

Listening now

[RebelRose89]

picked up the sixx:am heroin diaries album today.   I've always liked Nikki Sixx and since DJ is on the album and I liked that Life is Beautiful song, I figured might as well check out the whole thing.

Listening now

good album i hope you enjoy it!
personal fav of 'pray 4 me'

[Jim Bob]

picked up the sixx:am heroin diaries album today.   I've always liked Nikki Sixx and since DJ is on the album and I liked that Life is Beautiful song, I figured might as well check out the whole thing.

Listening now

good album i hope you enjoy it!
personal fav of 'pray 4 me'

Yea it has some good tunes.

I like DJ's solo in Accidents Can Happen.   

I can see him playing Robin's parts.    He's got a lot of the best moments of the show like the SCOM intro and solo, and of course the WTTJ intro, I think the crowd will love him.

Can't wait to hear his take on Better.

[greekmule]

picked up the sixx:am heroin diaries album today.   I've always liked Nikki Sixx and since DJ is on the album and I liked that Life is Beautiful song, I figured might as well check out the whole thing.

Listening now

good album i hope you enjoy it!
personal fav of 'pray 4 me'

Yea it has some good tunes.

I like DJ's solo in Accidents Can Happen.   

I can see him playing Robin's parts.    He's got a lot of the best moments of the show like the SCOM intro and solo, and of course the WTTJ intro, I think the crowd will love him.

Can't wait to hear his take on Better.

just listened it on youtube and i guess it's allright, nothing special though. and his tone is not that great either imo. I hope he will change his guitar tone for gnr

[D]

This is what I have said since day 1

Just because you join GNR, that doesn't automatically make u an Icon and a legend. U have to earn your own way no matter what band u  join or who u play with. Just because you play with Axl Rose, U don't all of a sudden become great. U have to do great things on your own.


Take John Frusciante of the Chili Peppers. When he came into the fold, I am sure die hard chili's were grieving over Hillel and they probably didn't embrace john. It was only after he proved his shit on Mother's Milk and then BSSM that he became THE guitarist for the RHCP. Look what happened when Dave Navarro joined, most and myself included hated it.

John earned his way into the fan's hearts by consistently exceeding expectations and writing amazing music.


So that is what the new members of GNR have to do. CD was good, but it will take a consistent, active effort to truly win everybody over.

That was my whole problem with people in the beginning. U had people everytime a new guitarist would come in say how that guy was greater than Slash and it was just ridiculous. I don't think people realize how ridiculous that is to say before the guys record one note.

so with DJ, I like the stuff he has done, but it still will have to translate INTO GNR and be great before I truly consider him Guns N Roses.  I absolutely have an open mind, open arms and open ears though and I want to support him big time cause i think he is a great guitar player and a cool dude.