GUNS N' ROSES NAMES DJ ASHBA AS BAND'S NEWEST AXEMAN

[gilld1]

I don't understand that since the two of you are upset that the band had to replace members leaving, why are you still here?

Haven't you had enough?

Are you just here to point out how much better things were in 2002?

We just got the album and some of you are already talking about how they have to put out a new one!

The ironic thing is that even if you're so unhappy, we both know you'll be at the next GN'R show....

Axl Rose
Slash
Duff McKagan
Izzy Stradlin
Steven Adler
Matt Sorum
Dizzy Reed
Gilby Clarke
Paul Tobias
Josh Freese
Chris Pittman
Robin Finck
Buckethead
Brain
Tommy Stinson
Richard Fortus
Bumblefoot
Frank Ferrer
DJ Ashba

That's 19 names... for fuck's sake you people are already getting into arguments about whether the New-New Guns N' Roses is really the New Guns N' Roses without Robin Finck and Buckethead!

Yes, people will come out to see Axl Rose in concert... but you can't tell me this many lineup changes doesn't have any effect on you whatsoever?  Or do you somehow only consider it ONE replacement since the album was a fresh start.  If they changed 8 members overnight and then released a new CD, would that also be OK as a fresh start?

When you're destroying Kiss & the Chili Peppers (and approaching Spinal Tap) in terms of replacements and BEING destroyed by those bands in terms of number of albums and tours... I don't know... it just takes a lot of the love and "giving a fuck" out of it for some fans.

Anyways, welcome DJ.  Fans, soak in his performance as much as you can... don't take your eyes off him during his solos... it may be his last tour with GN'R!

The list could also include Dave Navarro, Zakk Wylde, and the original Pearl Jam drummer Dave A. along with Gunns, Gardner, and Baich.  This isn't a band this is a pro baseball team 25 man roster.

So what could cause this kind of turnover?  What is the one constant involved?  It's all Slash's fault, right?

[MeanBone]

I don't understand that since the two of you are upset that the band had to replace members leaving, why are you still here?

Haven't you had enough?

Are you just here to point out how much better things were in 2002?

We just got the album and some of you are already talking about how they have to put out a new one!

The ironic thing is that even if you're so unhappy, we both know you'll be at the next GN'R show....




/jarmo

you're right, i will be at gn'r's next show, but that proves nothing... just follow me on this one, most fans in here would go see a Gn'r Concert or any former member's show in support or outta curiosity at the very  least. The reason one goes to a show could go from simple interest to damn right fanatism for other people.

The difference here is that some years ago i did believe in the band as a team and i did land on the fanatics side of the audience, now i don't, because regardless of who's in there now, he can leave tomorrow and we're not supposed to care because Gn'r is supposed to be something beyond members.

And you know what? i still get that, i couldn't really ask gn'r to stop because Robin left, or any other member, but i do ask myself why everyone seems to quit this band, it's a pattern, and of course you and me may come to different conclusions as to why this may happen and i do think you may be more close to the source than i am, but still you're just listening to one side.

Sure at the end of the day you'll say i'm not a real fan or compare me to the slash supporters ( when i'll i'm doing is questioning whether or not it's ethical for them to sell a band idea regardless of who's in it and the fact that everyone keeps on  leaving the band) and truth of the matter is i hate slash fanatics because by definition they wouldn't be arguing with logic but with passion and i even see Slash like Axl sees him, i don't think he's that great now-a-days, he was great back in gn'r though. The cancer part, well i was never friends with him so i can't really say.

Now here where we see things differently and from what i see, why most people seem to give you a hard time with your rationalization of why gn'r is so great.

First of all i never saw you once question Axl on anything, which doesn't mean you didn't, it means i just don't see it on your daily posts and that leads to something profoundly disturbing that is to have a blind faith on someone. And sure you may have your reasons, but most people here don't even believe every word Slash says, so why shouldn't axl have an agenda? doesn't he ever lie? is he a saint? no, he's human and flawed like all of us and you know that everyone lies to save their ass, but then again this has nothing to do with what led to the breakup of the band, for me it's more about why people left in the new incarnation of the band and not just robin.

So that's where i think diferently, i love gn'r, or Axl's Band, but i can't help to think for myself and question everything. i don't see it as a bad thing because the fact that you question something at the very least shows you care enough to think about it and get frustrated and how things turn out in the end and if we look in history nothing good ever came from using blind faith to support your line of thought.

I like Gn'r for what they were up until the last tour, i might even very well like the next incarnation of the band, but the fact that it's ever changing makes me see them as something other than a real band, and that's just how i feel, not necessarily how it might be, but most people perceive it that way as well so that's gotta count for something.

And this also has nothing to do with Ashba, fact of the matter is i could actually like his input to the band and start to think of him as a real member and then all of a sudden he's out and someone new takes his place, well that just makes me very sceptical on even becoming a fan of the guys that are in the band now, because all this teaches is they are not special because they can and will be easily replaced.

I think that by having an ever revolving line up they make it hard on themselves to have people follow them as a whole, because at the end of the day the only one you can expect to walk onstage will be Axl; because i doubt he'll ever be replaced. unless gn'r are goin into a strange band concept like kiss where it could go on without any original member because kiss is such a household name as paul stanley said recently... well that just scares me on so many levels.

[LunsJail]

I've known Robin was gone since at least last April or so when he rejoined NIN. So that's not a new issue. But every time you add a name to that list it starts to feel less like a band and more like Axl's Rotating Cast of Characters. As I pointed out before, of the 3 current guitarists not one has a GNR writing credit to his name. That's kind of interesting for a guitar based rock band.

[Ali]

I don't understand that since the two of you are upset that the band had to replace members leaving, why are you still here?

Haven't you had enough?

Are you just here to point out how much better things were in 2002?

We just got the album and some of you are already talking about how they have to put out a new one!

The ironic thing is that even if you're so unhappy, we both know you'll be at the next GN'R show....

Axl Rose
Slash
Duff McKagan
Izzy Stradlin
Steven Adler
Matt Sorum
Dizzy Reed
Gilby Clarke
Paul Tobias
Josh Freese
Chris Pittman
Robin Finck
Buckethead
Brain
Tommy Stinson
Richard Fortus
Bumblefoot
Frank Ferrer
DJ Ashba

That's 19 names... for fuck's sake you people are already getting into arguments about whether the New-New Guns N' Roses is really the New Guns N' Roses without Robin Finck and Buckethead!

Yes, people will come out to see Axl Rose in concert... but you can't tell me this many lineup changes doesn't have any effect on you whatsoever?  Or do you somehow only consider it ONE replacement since the album was a fresh start.  If they changed 8 members overnight and then released a new CD, would that also be OK as a fresh start?

When you're destroying Kiss & the Chili Peppers (and approaching Spinal Tap) in terms of replacements and BEING destroyed by those bands in terms of number of albums and tours... I don't know... it just takes a lot of the love and "giving a fuck" out of it for some fans.

Anyways, welcome DJ.  Fans, soak in his performance as much as you can... don't take your eyes off him during his solos... it may be his last tour with GN'R!

The list could also include Dave Navarro, Zakk Wylde, and the original Pearl Jam drummer Dave A. along with Gunns, Gardner, and Baich.  This isn't a band this is a pro baseball team 25 man roster.

So what could cause this kind of turnover?  What is the one constant involved?  It's all Slash's fault, right?

Wow, that is incredibly naive and narrow-minded (to put it politely).

So, it's Axl's fault that Steven Adler is a junkie that couldn't get through a recording session without nodding off?

Please 

Ali

[gilld1]

Of course there are some exceptions on that list.  No, Axl didn't cause Adler to be a junkie.

I think it is just as naive and narrow minded to take everything that Axl says as the absolute truth.  As if he doesn't have an agenda too.  All I'm saying is that there has been all of this turmoil but only one constant.  Could it be that where there is smoke there is fire?

[Buddha_Master]

Or could it be that leaving GN'R is the easy way. You know, the road less traveled. To be in GN'R now, is too share Axl's vision. Just doing rock and trying to kick ass or recapture something long gone probably is very comforting for musicians. But, doing something daring and bold in the name of the art Axl obviously treasures so dearly, that takes balls. Chinese Democracy when I hear it, I can hear the passion.

I would argue that the musicians who have come and gone lack balls and dedication to the art. Or they just no longer share the vision. Personally I would take 1 Chinese Democracy album over thousands of other rock albums. Thousands. You just have to ask yourself what type of music fan you are. Do you love Chinese Democracy? I mean fucking love and adore it? If the answer is yes, then you too, share Axl's vision, and it is clear that whoever doesn't, good fucking riddance.

I will take the one constant being Axl, as long as the dude doesn't start losing it. To me, he is the only one who gets it. Yea, where there is smoke there's fire. Chinese Democracy is fucking HOT! I will be there as a fan every step of the way, as the music Axl is achieving means that much to me. Fuck the ones who lack the balls or the foresight. Axl 'aint doing things the easy way but really, would we have it any other way? Again, it comes down to how much you love Chinese Democracy. If you don't well, good riddance.

[Ali]

Of course there are some exceptions on that list.  No, Axl didn't cause Adler to be a junkie.

I think it is just as naive and narrow minded to take everything that Axl says as the absolute truth.  As if he doesn't have an agenda too.  All I'm saying is that there has been all of this turmoil but only one constant.  Could it be that where there is smoke there is fire?

The only people on that list that have publicly stated their issues with Axl factored into their decision to leave the group are Slash, Duff, Izzy and Matt.  That's really it, even if you factor in Rob Gardener, Tracii Guns and Ole.  You can speculate as to why the others left until the cows come home, but the ones I mentioned are the only ones that left because of issues getting along with Axl.  That's hardly a large enough percentage of people on that list to suggest that Axl is the root of ALL the turmoil.

He's the last man standing, as he said.  He's been there from beginning to now, so of course he would have witnessed all of the turmoil and participated in his fair share of turmoil.

Ali

[jarmo]

Who havnt I given a fair chance? Who have i knocked? Im not the biggest Bumble fan but that doesnt mean I dont think hes good or capable.

When you say stuff like they can't be loved because they haven't got writing credits on the album, you're not being fair in my opinion.

So your saying that if the band gets big time exposure they will be as popular as the old band?

The whole discussion was not about that!

It was about your idea that in the "rock world" only those that write songs get fans.

So, all I'm saying is that once the band gets some exposure, Ron, Richard and DJ will get more fans.


I don't share your belief that everybody sits with their album booklet reading song writing credits before they decide who they'll love.

Bingo. I agree with you. Bucket needs GNR just as much as GNR needs him in terms of populairty. Obviously for whatever reason it didnt work out.

I think he needs GN'R more. GN'R has managed to keep going since 2004 you know.

 

So that's where i think diferently, i love gn'r, or Axl's Band, but i can't help to think for myself and question everything.

And I don't question everything because I know there's always reason(s).

If I don't know the reason why Robin chose to tour with NIN instead of staying in GN'R, it won't make me lose any sleep.



You need to understand that a band isn't always some set in stone dynamic thing.

Sure, you might be upset that somebody left and it's not the same line up anymore. I get that.

But so many bands stay together only for reasons that have nothing to do with the music. Just to keep their paying audiences happy. Is that better?






/jarmo

[GypsySoul]

Of course there are some exceptions on that list.  No, Axl didn't cause Adler to be a junkie.

I think it is just as naive and narrow minded to take everything that Axl says as the absolute truth.  As if he doesn't have an agenda too.  All I'm saying is that there has been all of this turmoil but only one constant.  Could it be that where there is smoke there is fire?

The only people on that list that have publicly stated their issues with Axl factored into their decision to leave the group are Slash, Duff, Izzy and Matt.  That's really it, even if you factor in Rob Gardener, Tracii Guns and Ole.  You can speculate as to why the others left until the cows come home, but the ones I mentioned are the only ones that left because of issues getting along with Axl.  That's hardly a large enough percentage of people on that list to suggest that Axl is the root of ALL the turmoil.

He's the last man standing, as he said.  He's been there from beginning to now, so of course he would have witnessed all of the turmoil and participated in his fair share of turmoil.

Ali

There's only ONE person on this list that will not now, not ever, never be working with Axl again.  And that's only because that is Axl's choice, NOT his.

Axl Rose - current member of GNR
Slash - dead to Axl
Duff McKagan - stated he would have no problem working with Axl again
Izzy Stradlin - obviously has no problem working with Axl
Steven Adler - would give his left nut to work with Axl again
Matt Sorum - stated he would have no problem working with Axl again
Dizzy Reed - current member of GNR
Gilby Clarke - stated he would have no problem working with Axl again
Paul Tobias - obviously has no problem working with Axl
Josh Freese - obviously has no problem working with Axl
Chris Pittman - current member of GNR
Robin Finck - only Robin knows
Buckethead - currently drinking his half of Axl's FREE Dr. Pepper
Brain - current member of GNR
Tommy Stinson - current member of GNR
Richard Fortus - current member of GNR
Bumblefoot - current member of GNR
Frank Ferrer - current member of GNR
DJ Ashba - current member of GNR

[gilld1]

Of course there are some exceptions on that list.  No, Axl didn't cause Adler to be a junkie.

I think it is just as naive and narrow minded to take everything that Axl says as the absolute truth.  As if he doesn't have an agenda too.  All I'm saying is that there has been all of this turmoil but only one constant.  Could it be that where there is smoke there is fire?

The only people on that list that have publicly stated their issues with Axl factored into their decision to leave the group are Slash, Duff, Izzy and Matt.  That's really it, even if you factor in Rob Gardener, Tracii Guns and Ole.  You can speculate as to why the others left until the cows come home, but the ones I mentioned are the only ones that left because of issues getting along with Axl.  That's hardly a large enough percentage of people on that list to suggest that Axl is the root of ALL the turmoil.

He's the last man standing, as he said.  He's been there from beginning to now, so of course he would have witnessed all of the turmoil and participated in his fair share of turmoil.

Ali

You're right to a degree.  Sure, just a few have said things publicly.  But from my life experiences I have worked with people through the years that are down right hard to work for.  Does that mean I dislike them or talk shit about them?  No, I'd just rather not work with them.  I can see how Axl would be fun to hang with in a social setting but I think working for him would be about as fun as getting a root canal!

[GypsySoul]

You're right to a degree.  Sure, just a few have said things publicly.  But from my life experiences I have worked with people through the years that are down right hard to work for.  Does that mean I dislike them or talk shit about them?  No, I'd just rather not work with them.  I can see how Axl would be fun to hang with in a social setting but I think working for him would be about as fun as getting a root canal!

There's only ONE person on this list that will not now, not ever, never be working with Axl again.  And that's only because that is Axl's choice, NOT his.

Axl Rose - current member of GNR
Slash - dead to Axl
Duff McKagan - stated he would have no problem working with Axl again
Izzy Stradlin - obviously has no problem working with Axl
Steven Adler - would give his left nut to work with Axl again
Matt Sorum - stated he would have no problem working with Axl again
Dizzy Reed - current member of GNR
Gilby Clarke - stated he would have no problem working with Axl again
Paul Tobias - obviously has no problem working with Axl
Josh Freese - obviously has no problem working with Axl
Chris Pittman - current member of GNR
Robin Finck - only Robin knows
Buckethead - currently drinking his half of Axl's FREE Dr. Pepper
Brain - current member of GNR
Tommy Stinson - current member of GNR
Richard Fortus - current member of GNR
Bumblefoot - current member of GNR
Frank Ferrer - current member of GNR
DJ Ashba - current member of GNR

[Axlative]

There's quite a lot of narrow minded people here it seems. Why would you even consider comparing GNR to what the concept of a rock band means to most people? Just because they started out like any other band?

I define GNR as GNR, not GNR the rock band. I believe Axl does too. And he has realized that things work MUCH better when you don't limit yourself with the bullshit expectations of others. GNR can never be the five guys on Sunset Strip or where ever. People mature, gain responsibilities etc. So why try to keep something that worked/works when people were/are 15-30 years old? Why not take a relaxed approach and not worry about anything but the music. Just because pro sports teams have rotating rosters from one season to another doesn't mean the guys on the team can't have the same cohesion and passion they had when they were in the little leagues. When you think about it, it really doesn't exclude anything to have a changing roster. Sure it increases the risk of not having that cohesion, which is why buying best players in any sport still doesn't guarantee championships, but if you make your choices always based on the fear of failure... well that certainly wouldn't be my GNR.

There's a whole documentary on Metallica's process of realizing that shit just can't continue unchanged. They found their solutions. Axl has found his. And most old GNR fans should be mature enough to no longer adore and idolize characters just because they are in a music group. I value Axl's dedication and integrity, but if someone could produce the same voice and same quality of music on album and on gigs I wouldn't care who the lead singer in GNR is. That's impossible of course, but less so with the people playing tangible instruments.

Bottom line people: enjoy the music just as you enjoy your favorite team winning. Packers were still Packers last season even though Favre left. GNR will be GNR as long as there's that certain voice, shitload of talent and great tunes. I don't see anything jeopardizing that in the near future.

[gilld1]

Gypsy, I don't see guys like Freese, Bucket, and Finck busting down the door to get back in the band.  Most of the others listed would not be known if not for Axl and GnR.  Freaking Dizzy would be bussing tables at the Rainbow.  Axl is their meal ticket so they will not ever say anything bad.

[jarmo]

Gypsy, I don't see guys like Freese, Bucket, and Finck busting down the door to get back in the band.  Most of the others listed would not be known if not for Axl and GnR.  Freaking Dizzy would be bussing tables at the Rainbow.  Axl is their meal ticket so they will not ever say anything bad.

That's the excuse you can always use when somebody says something nice.

But the opposite is also true. Everybody who left can always focus on the negatives in order to make it seem like they did the right thing.



/jarmo

[younggunner]

When you say stuff like they can't be loved because they haven't got writing credits on the album, you're not being fair in my opinion.

No, Im saying that they wont be loved simply because they are in GNR

I think he needs GN'R more. GN'R has managed to keep going since 2004 you know.

Not really. Bucket seems content with his career. They both have moved on. Just because GNR keep moving foward doesnt mean their relevant. And Im not suggesting that if Bucket or Robin stayed they would be. I personally think it would have been successful, but certainly not a lock..... GNR have not been relevant since like 94 ish.


You keep saying that people dont have their lil booklets out checking who wrote what. No shit. I never said they do. I said people loved the members of the old band because they built something. You cant compare the love for Axl, Slash, Izzy to a fans love for Gilby or Sorum.

When people see todays lineup they only see Axl. Which is a problem because they have issues with how he has continued on with the GNR name. Axl has yet presented an official lineup to the general public that will get them over that hump. Maybe now ater all of this time he finally will. We shall see how long this tour lasts. But its not just about touring. Its about promo etc. as well.

Im not saying that people will not accept Bumble, DJ, or whoever because they didnt write specific songs. Its a hard sell though when your telling people to accept a lineup that is always changing and its guitarists are replacements of the people who created CD ...and the people who created CD were replacements of a legendary lineup. Its a tough sell.

[Ali]

Of course there are some exceptions on that list.  No, Axl didn't cause Adler to be a junkie.

I think it is just as naive and narrow minded to take everything that Axl says as the absolute truth.  As if he doesn't have an agenda too.  All I'm saying is that there has been all of this turmoil but only one constant.  Could it be that where there is smoke there is fire?

The only people on that list that have publicly stated their issues with Axl factored into their decision to leave the group are Slash, Duff, Izzy and Matt.  That's really it, even if you factor in Rob Gardener, Tracii Guns and Ole.  You can speculate as to why the others left until the cows come home, but the ones I mentioned are the only ones that left because of issues getting along with Axl.  That's hardly a large enough percentage of people on that list to suggest that Axl is the root of ALL the turmoil.

He's the last man standing, as he said.  He's been there from beginning to now, so of course he would have witnessed all of the turmoil and participated in his fair share of turmoil.

Ali

You're right to a degree.  Sure, just a few have said things publicly.  But from my life experiences I have worked with people through the years that are down right hard to work for.  Does that mean I dislike them or talk shit about them?  No, I'd just rather not work with them.  I can see how Axl would be fun to hang with in a social setting but I think working for him would be about as fun as getting a root canal!

Yeah, but you know what?  Unless you know for sure if someone had issues with Axl, it's all just baseless speculation.

The fact is guys like Josh Freese and Billy Howerdel, as examples, even after they left the band and weren't "on the payroll", said nothing bad about Axl.  I remember Josh even saying that people always ask him for horror stories, but that he didn't have any because Axl was always good to him.

Ali

[jarmo]

No, Im saying that they wont be loved simply because they are in GNR

Let me put this to you in a simple way:

GN'R member + talent + exposure -> fans


It worked for you with Buckethead. It'll work for Ron, Richard and DJ as well.

Not really. Bucket seems content with his career.

Maybe that's why he's not interested in being in GN'R, even though you keep telling everybody he must be in the band.....

I said people loved the members of the old band because they built something. You cant compare the love for Axl, Slash, Izzy to a fans love for Gilby or Sorum.

You were talking about who wrote the songs.

So either be more clear in the future or think before you type. 


I still don't buy that "they built something". Buckethead hadn't built a lot when you became a fan of his.

When people see todays lineup they only see Axl.

It's been like that for years and years.... It's not that weird when you think about it. He's Axl fucking Rose.

Its a hard sell though when your telling people to accept a lineup that is always changing and its guitarists are replacements of the people who created CD ...and the people who created CD were replacements of a legendary lineup. Its a tough sell.

Let GN'R worry about that.



Some get attached to a specific line up of the band, some get attached to an idea they have of what GN'R should be (and they'll keep pointing out it's not what it should be until the end of time) and some get attached to the attitude/vision of GN'R.

The first group will obviously get upset when there's a change in the line up.

The second group is never happy because the idea of "the perfect GN'R" exists only in their heads.

The third group is the one that understands that the band isn't s static thing. It's not necessarily about the names of the band members, it's more about making the names work together towards a common goal. Yes, it's unfortunate when things don't go as planned and people leave, but in the end, the main thing that matters is the goal and achieving it.


Obviously all three like the music. That goes without saying.


/jarmo

[Jim Bob]

You keep saying that people dont have their lil booklets out checking who wrote what. No shit. I never said they do. I said people loved the members of the old band because they built something. You cant compare the love for Axl, Slash, Izzy to a fans love for Gilby or Sorum.

people should like whatever they like.. there is no difference except that your first group is more popular.   A fan of someone like Matt Scrotum has their reasons, however crazy they maybe.. just as fans of Axl have their reasons for liking Axl.

Its not all about you.  Everyone is different and looks at things from their own POV.   You or I are no one to say its right or wrong or different or bad.

When people see todays lineup they only see Axl.

I certainly didn't.  Maybe some do, but I don't.   2006 lineup was the tightest live band I've ever witnessed live.

Which is a problem because they have issues with how he has continued on with the GNR name.

then they can fuck off.   He's always had the GnR name, nothing new.  Anyone still complaining about this now should just fall off the face of the earth because its old.

[Wooody]

I don't understand that since the two of you are upset that the band had to replace members leaving, why are you still here?

Haven't you had enough?

Are you just here to point out how much better things were in 2002?

We just got the album and some of you are already talking about how they have to put out a new one!

The ironic thing is that even if you're so unhappy, we both know you'll be at the next GN'R show....




/jarmo

you're right, i will be at gn'r's next show, but that proves nothing... just follow me on this one, most fans in here would go see a Gn'r Concert or any former member's show in support or outta curiosity at the very  least. The reason one goes to a show could go from simple interest to damn right fanatism for other people.

The difference here is that some years ago i did believe in the band as a team and i did land on the fanatics side of the audience, now i don't, because regardless of who's in there now, he can leave tomorrow and we're not supposed to care because Gn'r is supposed to be something beyond members.

And you know what? i still get that, i couldn't really ask gn'r to stop because Robin left, or any other member, but i do ask myself why everyone seems to quit this band, it's a pattern, and of course you and me may come to different conclusions as to why this may happen and i do think you may be more close to the source than i am, but still you're just listening to one side.

Sure at the end of the day you'll say i'm not a real fan or compare me to the slash supporters ( when i'll i'm doing is questioning whether or not it's ethical for them to sell a band idea regardless of who's in it and the fact that everyone keeps on  leaving the band) and truth of the matter is i hate slash fanatics because by definition they wouldn't be arguing with logic but with passion and i even see Slash like Axl sees him, i don't think he's that great now-a-days, he was great back in gn'r though. The cancer part, well i was never friends with him so i can't really say.

Now here where we see things differently and from what i see, why most people seem to give you a hard time with your rationalization of why gn'r is so great.

First of all i never saw you once question Axl on anything, which doesn't mean you didn't, it means i just don't see it on your daily posts and that leads to something profoundly disturbing that is to have a blind faith on someone. And sure you may have your reasons, but most people here don't even believe every word Slash says, so why shouldn't axl have an agenda? doesn't he ever lie? is he a saint? no, he's human and flawed like all of us and you know that everyone lies to save their ass, but then again this has nothing to do with what led to the breakup of the band, for me it's more about why people left in the new incarnation of the band and not just robin.

So that's where i think diferently, i love gn'r, or Axl's Band, but i can't help to think for myself and question everything. i don't see it as a bad thing because the fact that you question something at the very least shows you care enough to think about it and get frustrated and how things turn out in the end and if we look in history nothing good ever came from using blind faith to support your line of thought.

I like Gn'r for what they were up until the last tour, i might even very well like the next incarnation of the band, but the fact that it's ever changing makes me see them as something other than a real band, and that's just how i feel, not necessarily how it might be, but most people perceive it that way as well so that's gotta count for something.

And this also has nothing to do with Ashba, fact of the matter is i could actually like his input to the band and start to think of him as a real member and then all of a sudden he's out and someone new takes his place, well that just makes me very sceptical on even becoming a fan of the guys that are in the band now, because all this teaches is they are not special because they can and will be easily replaced.

I think that by having an ever revolving line up they make it hard on themselves to have people follow them as a whole, because at the end of the day the only one you can expect to walk onstage will be Axl; because i doubt he'll ever be replaced. unless gn'r are goin into a strange band concept like kiss where it could go on without any original member because kiss is such a household name as paul stanley said recently... well that just scares me on so many levels.

Excellent post, and I don't think even Jarmo can dispute what you say.
This is what is on the minds of a lot of true gnr fans like ourselves.

[The Catcher]

A band is not a picture from a moment in time. It's a dynamic thing, constantly evolving. If you see it as a certain picture, you are hanging on to a memory and not supporting the actual band. Bands move on. They evolve. Axl is not the first to do what he does, by the way. That is, being the sole remaining original member. Far from it. He just catches so much more SHIT for it than others because he's the guy everyone loves to hate.

By the way, let me ask you people a question, those of you who have problems with line-up changes. I don't like football much, or soccer as Americans would call it, but let me use it as an example. If you support a team like Manchester United, do you support only the 1985 version of it and anyone who comes in after that, as a result of CHANGE, you call them replacements? Think about that for a second. In principle, it's the same thing.