GUNS N' ROSES NAMES DJ ASHBA AS BAND'S NEWEST AXEMAN

[jarmo]

The album was just released at the end of 2008. Next up, the tour.  

That is not how the rock world sees it  

Let me guess, you're part of that "rock world"?

It's a fact, they released the album last year and haven't yet started touring behind it.

People love/loved Slash and Izzy why? Because they wrote material.

Who wrote material for CD? Bucket...Robin

not Fortus/ Bumble

You made a poll about why people loved those guys?

Are you saying GN'R fans also loved Bob Dylan and Paul McCartney because they wrote two of the songs GN'R performed live?

People loved them because they were in GN'R. Period.

They were on stage, they were in magazines, in videos, in photos etc.

Not everybody goes through song writing credits and then decides whether or not the guy is worthy of their love/worship.


Fact is, you loved Buckethead before you had even seen the song writing credits for the album! What was that love based on? For years and years you professed your love for a guy without knowing exactly how much material he had written.

Robin wrote one song. So are you saying the love is relative to the song writing credits?


Does this apply for other bands as well? In Depeche Mode, most of the songs are written by Martin Gore, the keyboard/guitar player. But people still seem to love the lead singer.... Oh, maybe they're not part of the "rock world" so the same rules don't apply.

And poor Ringo! Not much love for him either.





/jarmo

[younggunner]

Dude, I can't say it enough

Robin wrote 1 song out of what 14?

So how is he a main Writer?

So you dont give him credit for his solos on CD? Im sure they are a product of his own work and creativity.

If we go by that argument that Slash doesnt get credit for Estranged, etc.

one thing I really agree with Jarmo on


IF those guys choose to not be in the band? what the heck can Axl do? Just quit? retire?

Agreed. And that is why I dont blame Axl completely for that. My argument is that he missed the boat years ago. Is it a coincidence that Slash, Bucket, and Robin all left? Or is Axl completely innoscent? So yes and no...

don't understand how people can accept a band as GNR without the original members and then all of a sudden not except them cause a couple of the new guys decide they don't want to be in the band anymore.

makes no sense, cause the first hurdle for me, is much tougher to get over than a couple of new guys leaving.

You can only go to the well so many times. If you want to carry on the gnr name without its original members, its a ballsy move. But you only get one shot. The reason I disagree with you is because I think its harder for people to accept the 2nd,3rs etc changes of the new lineup than the initial change.

It becomes a mess if things are constantly changing. Which it obibviously has.

[jarmo]

If you want to carry on the gnr name without its original members, its a ballsy move. But you only get one shot. The reason I disagree with you is because I think its harder for people to accept the 2nd,3rs etc changes of the new lineup than the initial change.

It's only difficult for people who are fans of a member who left.

Many people in the "rock world" couldn't tell you anything about Buckethead.

So for them it doesn't really matter if he's in GN'R or not when they go see them live.




/jarmo

[D]

I like the new guys, but honestly, If I go see GNR, I am there to see Axl. That is no disrespect to the new guys but I am there to see one man.

Just like when I went to see Velvet Revolver, I wasn't there to see Dave.

[younggunner]

Let me guess, you're part of that "rock world"?

It's a fact, they released the album last year and haven't yet started touring behind it.

Nope. Just common sense.

So your telling me the music industry/rock fans, etc think GNR/Axl as it is today...or over the past decade is credible?

The fact is that it took Axl 9+ yrs to release the album. This isnt a band with a fresh start just releasing and album. There already is a negative history tagged with the band.

People loved them because they were in GN'R. Period.

They built something! People loved Gilby?? Your not making sense. I am obviously right because the public does not think this is GNR.

If it was just about the name and not the players in the band then you would be right. But the real world doesnt work like that.

How come people do not have the same love for GNR today as they did in the past? You keep telling me that people loved them because they were in GNR..."period"....so where is that love now? Afterall thal, bucket, robin, brain, etc,etc are all in/were GNR. Wheres the loveeeeeeeee?

Fact is, you loved Buckethead before you had even seen the song writing credits for the album! What was that love based on? For years and years you professed your love for a guy without knowing exactly how much material he had written.

Robin wrote one song. So are you saying the love is relative to the song writing credits?

Fact is I checked out Buckets solo stuff when he was in GNR. Its easy to spot talent like that. And my intuition was right 

As for Robin..again...he has one writing credit but that doesnt mean he didnt write his solos etc...

It's only difficult for people who are fans of a member who left.

Many people in the "rock world" couldn't tell you anything about Buckethead.

So for them it doesn't really matter if he's in GN'R or not when they go see them live.

Which is why the rock world doesnt take this band seriously. There is no consistency. How can they know about Bucket if hes not there. Same with Robin.

They chose to leave. But I have to believe that Axls inability to get things started years ago has played a big role in how things eventually turned out.

[axljungle]

I thing that now GNR is more stable, than in 2002, I want to see this band.
I saw Guns in 2006 in Madrid, very very good concert, and for me, Richard and Ron are as important as Robin, I prefer Richard playing than Robin, I thing that he fits better in Guns.
I like Robin too much, but out of Guns N Roses, I prefer Dj Ashba style than Robin.

P.D. Sorry for my english, I speak only a little

[MeanBone]

Jarmo you should read people's comments at rolling stone and every other online magazine or forum that isn't fan based.

People see Gn'r as Axl's Solo project and give it as much credit as Adler's appetite.

For some fans it's hard to back up Axl because we thought originally he had band and concept to live up to the old band, when in fact people keep on quitting the band and some random guy keeps getting into the fold. it's hard to stand up for a band when each member could be gone by tomorrow and by the looks of it, we are not supposed to care because the show must go on.

Many of us believed in a formation with Buckethead and Robin that wrote and shaped the album, they are both gone.

If you think of writing credits, sure maybe 1 song is not enough, but robin's parts are all over cd and his playing influenced the music we hear in all of the record. Besides he was in the band for ten years justifying on some level that this is not just Axl's project, but a band with members that are in the band for a lot more time that slash and izzy were...

however the sad fact is people keep on quitting and someday it could be Tommy, Chris or dizzy who cares, we all should believe Gn'r is about the music and not the people, but truth of the matter is this band was built on the charisma of the musicians.


but the way things are going the only patern i can think is whoever is in gn'r and can get a good paying job in music other than gn'r, he'll quit, i.e. Robin, Buckethead, even Duff doesn't want the job.

if the replacements reunite i don't see tommy sticking around either.

it's hard to think of a band where every member but the lead singer can be replaced and still think of it as a band, regardless of how they want to portrait it.

When Gn'r has more lineup changes than whitesnake it starts to freak me out.

[younggunner]

Jarmo you should read people's comments at rolling stone and every other online magazine or forum that isn't fan based.

People see Gn'r as Axl's Solo project and give it as much credit as Adler's appetite.

For some fans it's hard to back up Axl because we thought originally he had band and concept to live up to the old band, when in fact people keep on quitting the band and some random guy keeps getting into the fold. it's hard to stand up for a band when each member could be gone by tomorrow and by the looks of it, we are not supposed to care because the show must go on.

Many of us believed in a formation with Buckethead and Robin that wrote and shaped the album, they are both gone.

If you think of writing credits, sure maybe 1 song is not enough, but robin's parts are all over cd and his playing influenced the music we hear in all of the record. Besides he was in the band for ten years justifying on some level that this is not just Axl's project, but a band with members that are in the band for a lot more time that slash and izzy were...

however the sad fact is people keep on quitting and someday it could be Tommy, Chris or dizzy who cares, we all should believe Gn'r is about the music and not the people, but truth of the matter is this band was built on the charisma of the musicians.


but the way things are going the only patern i can think is whoever is in gn'r and can get a good paying job in music other than gn'r, he'll quit, i.e. Robin, Buckethead, even Duff doesn't want the job.

if the replacements reunite i don't see tommy sticking around either.

it's hard to think of a band where every member but the lead singer can be replaced and still think of it as a band, regardless of how they want to portrait it.

When Gn'r has more lineup changes than whitesnake it starts to freak me out.

AMEN

[jarmo]

The fact is that it took Axl 9+ yrs to release the album. This isnt a band with a fresh start just releasing and album.

Yeah, and putting Buckethead and Robin in the band isn't gonna change the fact that the album came out in 2008.

It's a very fresh start. New album, new tour. Let's rock!

You can't get a fresher start than that!

They built something! People loved Gilby?? Your not making sense.

Yes, people loved Gilby. He was in GN'R, he got fans because of his time in GN'R.

I'm sure he'd be the first one to admit that.

How did you become a Buckethead fan?

I am obviously right because the majoirty of the public does not think this is GNR.

Obviously.  

You might also think before you post. That same public also doesn't think that Buckethead being in the band would make it "more GN'R".  

If i was just about the name and not the players in the band then you would be right. But the real world doesnt work like that.

Since you're so in touch with the real world, tell us why Britney Spears has some many fans? People only love the song writers right? Not the ones who stand in the spotlight and perform.....

Fact is I checked out Buckets solo stuff when he was in GNR. Its easy to spot talent like that.

But you weren't a fan of the GN'R material before you could read the song writing credits?

As for Robin..again...he has one writing credit but that doesnt mean he didnt write his solos etc...

How did you become a fan of his? Did you see him on stage performing songs he didn't write and you thought he put on a great show? Oh wait, no... That's not possible. He must write material in order to get fans.... Sorry.

Did you check out his solo material before you could read the song writing credit inside the Chinese Democracy booklet?

Jarmo you should read people's comments at rolling stone and every other online magazine or forum that isn't fan based.

Why? Because I should take note of those who hate GN'R?

That kind of sites are filled with hate for every band/artist!



The whole idea that somebody needs to write songs to get fans is just plain stupid in my opinion. The music charts are proof enough.

it's hard to think of a band where every member but the lead singer can be replaced and still think of it as a band, regardless of how they want to portrait it.

Not really. A band can change members.

The definition of the word doesn't specify it meaning the same bunch of people: a group of musicians organized for ensemble playing.



Robin and Buckethead were part of creating Chinese Democracy. So was Paul. And Josh.

But they left. We still have the music to listen to.

The album is the result of a bunch of people working together. Some aren't gonna be on tour supporting the release. Some for obvious reasons (such as Caram being a producer. ).




I don't understand that since the two of you are upset that the band had to replace members leaving, why are you still here?

Haven't you had enough?

Are you just here to point out how much better things were in 2002?

We just got the album and some of you are already talking about how they have to put out a new one!

The ironic thing is that even if you're so unhappy, we both know you'll be at the next GN'R show....




/jarmo

[Ali]

Jarmo you should read people's comments at rolling stone and every other online magazine or forum that isn't fan based.

People see Gn'r as Axl's Solo project and give it as much credit as Adler's appetite.

For some fans it's hard to back up Axl because we thought originally he had band and concept to live up to the old band, when in fact people keep on quitting the band and some random guy keeps getting into the fold. it's hard to stand up for a band when each member could be gone by tomorrow and by the looks of it, we are not supposed to care because the show must go on.

Many of us believed in a formation with Buckethead and Robin that wrote and shaped the album, they are both gone.

If you think of writing credits, sure maybe 1 song is not enough, but robin's parts are all over cd and his playing influenced the music we hear in all of the record. Besides he was in the band for ten years justifying on some level that this is not just Axl's project, but a band with members that are in the band for a lot more time that slash and izzy were...

however the sad fact is people keep on quitting and someday it could be Tommy, Chris or dizzy who cares, we all should believe Gn'r is about the music and not the people, but truth of the matter is this band was built on the charisma of the musicians.


but the way things are going the only patern i can think is whoever is in gn'r and can get a good paying job in music other than gn'r, he'll quit, i.e. Robin, Buckethead, even Duff doesn't want the job.

if the replacements reunite i don't see tommy sticking around either.

it's hard to think of a band where every member but the lead singer can be replaced and still think of it as a band, regardless of how they want to portrait it.

When Gn'r has more lineup changes than whitesnake it starts to freak me out.

Anyone that gives the current version of GN'R, whether you see it as Axl's solo project or not, as much credit as Adler's Appetite is without a doubt a fucking idiot.

Adler's Appetite is not about writing original material.  They are not even comparable.

Ali

[RebelRose89]

it's hard to think of a band where every member but the lead singer can be replaced and still think of it as a band, regardless of how they want to portrait it.

a....isn't billy corgan (lead singer) now the only member of smashing pumpkins....?

[jarmo]

Anyone that gives the current version of GN'R, whether you see it as Axl's solo project or not, as much credit as Adler's Appetite is without a doubt a fucking idiot.

Adler's Appetite is not about writing original material.  They are not even comparable.

Ali

Hahaha. Good point.

Maybe they can go tell Adler who should be in his band, when to release albums etc....  



Seems like the Buckethead fans decided to turn this into a Dead Horse topic (again). 



WELCOME TO GN'R DJ!  Good luck Robin.





/jarmo

[younggunner]

How did you become a Buckethead fan?

because he earned my respect with his playing.

That same public also doesn't think that Buckethead being in the band would make it "more GN'R".

Your missing the point. For all we know the 02 lineup could have failed as well. But we dont know because they never tried!. Im not asking people to like Bucket/robin/thal/etc because they are in GNR.

Im asking Axl to go out there and present his vision of GNR to the public for a few yrs. And then its up to the public to decide.

But you weren't a fan of the GN'R material before you could read the song writing credits?

Because I assumed that he and Robin were writing with the band. I am one of those people who do not think Axl is the greatest guitar players ever. Hence the people in his band were more than capable of making some great stuff. Werent we all under that impression? Throw in the fact they could play great live and Bucket has amazing solo albums...it was safe to assume he was going to be an integral part of the albuma nd band  


How come people do not have the same love for GNR today as they did in the past? You keep telling me that people loved them because they were in GNR..."period"....so where is that love now? Afterall thal, bucket, robin, brain, etc,etc are all in/were GNR. How come this band cant sell out stadiums, have top of the chart albums, expensive videos, etc like the old band? Afterall it is Guns N Roses. Wheres the loveeeeeeeee?

Seems like the Buckethead fans decided to turn this into a Dead Horse topic (again). 

This has nothing to do with Buckethead.

[MeanBone]

Jarmo you should read people's comments at rolling stone and every other online magazine or forum that isn't fan based.

Why? Because I should take not of those who hate GN'R?

That kind of sites are filled with hate for every band/artist!



The whole idea that somebody needs to write songs to get fans is just plain stupid in my opinion. The music charts are proof enough.



Robin and Buckethead were part of creating Chinese Democracy. So was Paul. And Josh.

But they left. We still have the music to listen to.

The album is the result of a bunch of people working together. Some aren't gonna be on tour supporting the release. Some for obvious reasons (such as Caram being a producer. ).





/jarmo

well in rock music people tend to write their own music, unlike in Pop music, so for us it does matter.

To read or hear what other people besides hardcore fans think of the band gives you an idea of how the band is perceived outside the htgth world, and that should be taken into consideration because this board alone couldn't fill stadiums for the next tour.

Paul never did like to play live, he is however a great songwriter and if he's happy doing so he should do that, i can't say anyone will miss seeing him live because in all honesty he wasn't that great.

Josh is an unfortunate case because he is one of the best drummers around and the reason no one made a fuss when he left was because they never got to see him live with gn'r, because  if they had it would've been another story.

People quit on gn'r more than other musicians quit on any other successful band and we can't deny things in the gn'r camp are strange.

I know for a fact people that have turned down gn'r offers just because they didn't imagine themselves being in a band to sit around and wait and every other thing that comes with it.

at the end of the day i'm still gonna love Gn'r and i'm glad i got to know Robin and Buckethead because they were very influential to me, but i can't think of them as a real band like i did back in 2002 or even 2006... at this point it's just like... whatever, the music is good and hopefully they won't hire keri kelly next for guitar, but who knows what could happen with the world's most dangerous cover band.

at least they're covering good tunes, i'll give 'em that, chinese democracy is still one of my favorite records

[MeanBone]

it's hard to think of a band where every member but the lead singer can be replaced and still think of it as a band, regardless of how they want to portrait it.

a....isn't billy corgan (lead singer) now the only member of smashing pumpkins....?

yeah, last i heard they were doing great!

is smashing pumpkins in 2009 something guns should be comparing themselves to?


P.S. Ali, Adler's appetite do have originals, they recorded an Ep with Jizzy on vocals and they are now recording a full length record to be produced by slash and they are thinking about changing the name of the band to Adler's GNR

[RebelRose89]

it's hard to think of a band where every member but the lead singer can be replaced and still think of it as a band, regardless of how they want to portrait it.

a....isn't billy corgan (lead singer) now the only member of smashing pumpkins....?

yeah, last i heard they were doing great!

is smashing pumpkins in 2009 something guns should be comparing themselves to?

well with Zeitgeist they did have a hit rock single with Tarantula - with a video, played Letterman / Late Shows,  & were involved on the Transformers soundtrack (a major film score) ... yeah you're right thats really not that impressive

[jarmo]

because he earned my respect with his playing.

.... and why couldn't that happen to Gilby? Or Ron, Richard or DJ?

Im asking Axl to go out there and present his vision of GNR to the public for a few yrs. And then its up to the public to decide.

I think the first step is the album....

Because I assumed that he and Robin were writing with the band.

So it was based on assumptions!

What if somebody became a fan of say Richard in 2002, 2006 or even 2007. They liked his playing on stage and thought "what a guy, he sure can play guitar!".

Then they looked at the booklet in November 2008 and there's no writing credit with his name. Should they stop being fans of him?

Would that be the correct thing to do in the "rock world"?

How come people do not have the same love for GNR today as they did in the past? You keep telling me that people loved them because they were in GNR..."period"....so where is that love now? Afterall thal, bucket, robin, brain, etc,etc are all in/were GNR. Wheres the loveeeeeeeee?

Considering how much hate comes for you, why are you even asking?  


I'll tell you my own observation about this. It's not scientific nor am I part of that "rock world" which you seem to know, so I apologize if this seems a bit amateurish.


When a band releases an album, and they tour, it creates exposure. Add to that a video, maybe some interviews.

People see you in magazine, on TV, on stage and they fall in love with the guys who are in the band.

It doesn't have to mean that they wrote the music. If they're in the band at the time. That's all it takes.


So far from my experience as a GN'R fan, this theory has worked since day one.

Some even start loving a member based on looks! I know, it sounds crazy but it's true! These people don't read song writing credits, yet their rooms are filled with posters of these guys. Isn't that weird?

To read or hear what other people besides hardcore fans think of the band gives you an idea of how the band is perceived outside the htgth world, and that should be taken into consideration because this board alone couldn't fill stadiums for the next tour.

If you go by those opinions, everything sucks....

I've known since day one that not everybody likes GN'R.

It's like being back in school..... Nothing has changed.

P.S. Ali, Adler's appetite do have originals, they recorded an Ep with Jizzy on vocals

But it's not the same band anymore!!!!!!!

All the song writers left!

Maybe you should go take that up on an AA forum.....





/jarmo

[MeanBone]

it's hard to think of a band where every member but the lead singer can be replaced and still think of it as a band, regardless of how they want to portrait it.

a....isn't billy corgan (lead singer) now the only member of smashing pumpkins....?

yeah, last i heard they were doing great!

is smashing pumpkins in 2009 something guns should be comparing themselves to?

well with Zeitgeist they did have a hit rock single with Tarantula - with a video, played Letterman / Late Shows,  & were involved on the Transformers soundtrack (a major film score) ... yeah you're right thats really not that impressive

well, as far as hit single goes, if you consider this great
U.S. Billboard Pop 100   50
U.S. Billboard Hot 100   54
Australian ARIA Rock Singles Chart]   7
U.K. Singles Chart[7]   59
Latvian Airplay Top[8]   13
Danish Single Chart[9]   14
Irish Singles Chart[10]   44

yeah, low expectations, so i thought so, even though they did do better on the rock chart. doing late shows every band does it, and some aren't even that good, i should know, because i watch a lot of tv and being on a soundtrack is a lot easier if you have a big name band and a big label, and guns did that too.

but if you put it that way, gn'r could've done better yes, because even this encarnation of the pumpkins were able to do all that average stuff.

[Jim Bob]

the usual whiners should just shut up already and either be respectful of DJ's new place in GnR or find another topic.  No?


Back on topic, isn't it odd how different things are now since Bumblefoot came into the band.  Remember, the shows were already booked and most of us fans had no idea who was taking Buckethead's place.    That was May 12, 2006, what an exciting night that was to be a GnR fan    Ron was introduced to fans on stage that night for the first time.
 
At least Axl and co is communicating with the fans more these days

[jarmo]

At least Axl and co is communicating with the fans more these days

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=56162.0

 


/jarmo