2009 NFL Season/Off Season discussion

[Axl4Prez2004]

It's official.  Al Davis is a fucking idiot.  I feel so sorry for Raiders' fans.

Axl4Prez Grades the First 10 Picks:

Lions:       qb Stafford       B  (is he this year's Matt Ryan?  I'm not sold)
Rams:       ol  J. Smith        A  (Bulger and S Jax breathe a sigh of relief)
Chiefs:      de T. Jackson    C+ (good fit, but 3rd overall?  I'm not sold)
Seahawks lb  A. Curry       A- (lost Peterson, insert best lb in the draft)
Jets           qb M. Sanchez  C  (too much for a guy without a big arm)
Bengals     ol  A. Smith       A- (I love this guy...what a rack! Seriously, he'd be an A without the character thing)
Raiders     wr  D. Haywood-Bey   F-  (Al Davis is a complete fucking idiot. Trade down if you want the 3rd/4th best wr)
Jags           ol  E. Monroe    A  (great value, great pick)
Packers      dt  BJ Raji        A-  (great pick, unfortunately as a Vikings fan, I'm pissed...he's very good)
49ers         wr  M. Crabtree  A  (ridiculously good value.  Lucky bastards!!!)
 

[Bodhi]

It's official.  Al Davis is a fucking idiot.  I feel so sorry for Raiders' fans.


 

thank you...we know...I have never switched teams but I am actually considering it now..and Ive been a Raider fan for almost 20 years..

[Axl4Prez2004]

It's official.  Al Davis is a fucking idiot.  I feel so sorry for Raiders' fans.


 

thank you...we know...I have never switched teams but I am actually considering it now..and Ive been a Raider fan for almost 20 years..

Unbelievable.  Ya know what?  Don't give up.  I've been a Vikings fan through thin and thinner.    Don't give up.
Check out this gem from former Raiders' coach Jon Gruden a writer noted:

"NFL Network newcomer Jon Gruden has also been very good: Funny and informed. Offering some insight into the strange selection by the Raiders, Gruden said, "I remember when James Jett went by me on the field and he (his former boss, Al Davis) asked me if I could feel that."

^that cracked me up.  I can picture Gruden recounting that. 

WOW!  The Vikes just got Percy Harvin.  Man, I had my second thoughts about this guy, but apparently he is electric.  I prefer the taller wide receivers, but with Berrian up there, I can see him as an effective 2nd wr and possibly in the return game as well.  Axl4Prez approves!!!  GO VIKES!!!

[gilee7]

Well, I'm disappointed. I was really starting to believe that the Eagles were going to make a trade for either Boldin or Edwards today. I'd much rather have either of them over an unproven rookie. But, who knows, Maclin may turn out to be a very good WR.

I would've rather the Eagles picked Beanie Wells or Donald Brown, but they might still wheel and deal and land one of those guys if they keep slipping. TE Pettigrew would've been a nice pick, too.

[Bodhi]

It's official.  Al Davis is a fucking idiot.  I feel so sorry for Raiders' fans.


 

thank you...we know...I have never switched teams but I am actually considering it now..and Ive been a Raider fan for almost 20 years..

Unbelievable.  Ya know what?  Don't give up.  I've been a Vikings fan through thin and thinner.    Don't give up.
Check out this gem from former Raiders' coach Jon Gruden a writer noted:

"NFL Network newcomer Jon Gruden has also been very good: Funny and informed. Offering some insight into the strange selection by the Raiders, Gruden said, "I remember when James Jett went by me on the field and he (his former boss, Al Davis) asked me if I could feel that."

^that cracked me up.  I can picture Gruden recounting that. 

hahayeah ill never give up on them..trust me if was going to it would have been when they hired Norv Turner...

[Axl4Prez2004]

Well, I'm disappointed. I was really starting to believe that the Eagles were going to make a trade for either Boldin or Edwards today. I'd much rather have either of them over an unproven rookie. But, who knows, Maclin may turn out to be a very good WR.

I would've rather the Eagles picked Beanie Wells or Donald Brown, but they might still wheel and deal and land one of those guys if they keep slipping. TE Pettigrew would've been a nice pick, too.

As you know gilee, I'm a huge McNabb fan.  I really think Maclin was a steal at #19.  He has great hands, he's fast, put up huge #'s at Missouri, and gives the Eagles a kick returning threat to boot.  Long gone is the ridiculous notion a stiff like Jeremy Bloom can return kicks.  Jackson returning punts and Maclin kicks gives the Eagles a huge special teams boost.
Maclin and McCoy are great picks for the Birds.  You know tomorrow they'll be all over at least three picks in the secondary.
The Eagles off-season has been amazing.

[gilee7]

Well, I'm disappointed. I was really starting to believe that the Eagles were going to make a trade for either Boldin or Edwards today. I'd much rather have either of them over an unproven rookie. But, who knows, Maclin may turn out to be a very good WR.

I would've rather the Eagles picked Beanie Wells or Donald Brown, but they might still wheel and deal and land one of those guys if they keep slipping. TE Pettigrew would've been a nice pick, too.

As you know gilee, I'm a huge McNabb fan.  I really think Maclin was a steal at #19.  He has great hands, he's fast, put up huge #'s at Missouri, and gives the Eagles a kick returning threat to boot.  Long gone is the ridiculous notion a stiff like Jeremy Bloom can return kicks.  Jackson returning punts and Maclin kicks gives the Eagles a huge special teams boost.
Maclin and McCoy are great picks for the Birds.  You know tomorrow they'll be all over at least three picks in the secondary.
The Eagles off-season has been amazing.

Yeah, I'm actually pretty happy with day one. I just had unrealistically high expectations going in. Maclin was a great deal at #19. He was the second best WR in the draft, and many thought he'd be a top-10 pick. The Eagles would've taken Moreno had he been there, but, since he wasn't, I'm happy with their pick. Maclin and Desean make for a very exciting duo. Too bad McNabb didn't have them like . . . five years ago.

I don't know much about McCoy, but from what I've been reading and from what they've said on TV, he's a first-round talent that just slipped because of poor workouts. I've seen a lot of comparisons to Westbrook and Reggie Bush, which is exciting. That's the kind of RB the Eagles really know how to utilize. The Eagles use screen passes like they're run plays, so McCoy should fit in well in Philly. And I guess the FB Weaver can serve as the short-yardage guy next season.

Al Davis is officially the worst GM in football. He picks Heyward-Bey when he could've had Crabtree or Maclin. Worst pick of the draft. And then in the second round he picked a guy that Mel Kiper said they could've waited until the 5th round to get.

I also don't understand the Broncos. I swear, McDaniels is going to be without a job in a couple years. He chases his Pro-Bowl QB out of town, which I think was a huge mistake . . . But their defense needs a lot of help, so I could understand it if he uses his extra picks to rebuild it. But then he goes and picks RB Moreno with the 12th pick? Don't they already have like 8 RBs on the roster?

[sandman]

the problem with the eagles is that they are cheap, and they never take a "win now" attitiude. (except in 2004, and that win now attitude at least got them to the SB.)

Maclin will have a minimal effect on the team this year. we already have great return men. and he will probbaly be our #4 WR - a part time player at best. and he could end up being as much of a bust as

we could have traded our second round pick for boldin, but eagles management would rather pay a "project" $3M than pay a "guaranteed stud" $10M a year.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Sandman, one man's "cheap" is another man's "thrifty."
Yes, the Eagles improved their kick return game last season, but there is room for improvement.  They were 11th in the league in kick returns with Will Demps returning kicks.  It's a small part of what he brings to the table.

The Eagles got great value at #19.  If Al Davis wasn't demented, Maclin was the only other pick if a team wasn't comfortable with Crabtree's ego.  I honestly don't understand how you can be upset with the Eagles draft.  Maclin and McCoy addressed huge needs the Birds have.  Maclin...a #4 receiver?  We should tab this thread and come back during the season.  Kevin Curtis just turned into a #3 receiver...it's where he belongs.  If they gave Boldin $10 mill, that is less money they'd have to shore up other positions.  Sandman, your football mind is like those crazy Democrats!  Spend now and mortgage the future! 

Gilee, I'm still in the camp that says the Broncos got the better of the Cutler deal.  Did you read the blurb where a reporter was asking the Bears owner if he knew Cutler's the kind of guy who enjoys the night life?  Who drinks??  Before you think I'm a tea-totalling crazy Quaker, don't forget Cutler is a diabetic.  Diabetics who drink reeeally fuck up their bodies.  What a great investment.  The Bears are done.
The prob I had with McDaniels yesterday was trading up a couple of slots and giving away a valuable pick.
But, just look at what the Broncos drafted.  They really shored up their secondary and got the highest-rated running back (Moreno)...not a bad day's work.

...and yes, mark my words, the Broncos qb's will have better numbers this year than Cutler.   

[sandman]

so you think Maclin is starting? no chance. firstly, he's a raw talent. secondly, even IF he outplays either of our top 2 WRs, reid will not start him this year. reid said "he should be able to work in and get some time in there." most people believe he will be fighting with Avant and Baskett for playing time at WR.

and as for Boldin, there's no mortgaging the future when you are significantly under the cap every year. they are rolling over a significant chunk of LTBE (about $20M) into the 2009 cap, which puts them somewhere in the neighborhood of $35 -  $40M under. and a second round pick is a steal for a sure thing.

it's not that i don't like their draft picks. but they saw a need for a WR. they chose to save money and draft a rookie, when they could have gotten a guarantee at the position. whereas it's about 50-50 Maclin is a total bust.

i loved pettigrew and he would have had an immediate impact this year. who wouldn't prefer 2 starters vs. 2 bench players for a team that lost in the NFC champ game last year??? 

[faldor]

Faldor

There is a huge difference in trading a 33 year old TE for a 2nd round pick, and trading a 25/26 year old QB who had how many 400 yard games last year? for a 2nd rounder.


The 2nd round pick wouldn't be bad for Cassel had they not had an offer from Denver which would have given them the 12th pick in the draft.

now NE are trying to get into the top 10 to get an OL  and its funny cause they would've been there to take one had they not tried to keep Cassel away from Denver and weren't trying to help out Pioli.

The Pats played the easiest schedule in the NFL last year and Cassel was helped a bit by Randy Moss and Wes Welker, among others.  Let's not put him in Canton just yet after ONE year.  When he was thrust into the role in week 1 everyone was saying how he couldn't play and that the Pats needed to trade for a veteran.  Now after ONE good year against a easy schedule, he's a QB of the future.  They needed to clear cap space, they did.  Don't buy the draft day talk/rumors.  Were the Pats really interested in trading into the top 10?  They traded OUT of the 1st round completely, TWICE yesterday.  If they traded for a high first round pick that would've cost a pretty penny.  Belichick is a smart guy and has built some pretty good teams over the years.  If he didn't see the value of trading up in the draft, then why do it?  The Pats have had great success trading down and for future picks (they've already traded 2 3rd's this year for 2 2nd's next year today).

[gilee7]

the problem with the eagles is that they are cheap, and they never take a "win now" attitiude. (except in 2004, and that win now attitude at least got them to the SB.)

Maclin will have a minimal effect on the team this year. we already have great return men. and he will probbaly be our #4 WR - a part time player at best. and he could end up being as much of a bust as

we could have traded our second round pick for boldin, but eagles management would rather pay a "project" $3M than pay a "guaranteed stud" $10M a year.

You don't know what the Cards were really asking for Boldin. The second-round stuff was just speculation. I can't see them trading a top-10 WR in the league for a second round pick. Unless you didn't notice, nobody traded for the guy... so obviously the Cards were asking a lot, or either they weren't very interested in trading him anyway.

Everybody calls the Eagles "cheap," and they are, I guess, but look at the teams that throw all the millions at players. The Raiders do it. The Redskins do it. How have those two teams been lately? Then look at the other end of the spectrum, at teams like the Eagles and the Patriots, that always manage their salary cap extremely well and make the playoffs every season. They stay consistent because they build their teams through the draft, instead of over-spending on FAs who are over-30 and on their last legs. Besides, when a player comes along that actually warrants the money, the Eagles usually go after him.

I don't see how you can say the Eagles aren't taking a "win now" attitude, though. Have you not been paying attention this offseason? They went out and signed probably the best FA tackle in Stacy Andrews. They signed Sean Jones, who put up some great stats in Cleveland and could turn into a hell of a player for the Eagles. They signed the FB Weaver, which was a big need for the Eagles. They traded for perhaps the best LT in the league with Peterson.

 And now the Eagles have just completed one hell of a draft, one that will top the sportswriters' lists as the team with the best draft. They got the second best WR in the draft with Maclin, a guy who should've been picked in the top 10. They got the RB McCoy, who fits in this system perfectly. They traded a couple of 5th-rounders for starting CB Ellis Hobbs, which gives the Eagles amazing depth at that position, as well as insurance in case the Sheldon Brown situation escalates. The TE from Florida that they picked in the 5th round was considered a 2nd-round talent and the the third-best TE in the draft. He only fell because of an injury he had last year. He was yet another great value pick the Eagles had.

I don't think Maclin is a "project." Will he start right away? Probably not. But he will contribute, and contribute big. I mean, last year people were saying that DeSean Jackson wouldn't start and that he was too small to take a hit and he had character issues and stuff . . . Look how well he played last season. If Maclin turns out to be anywhere near as good as people think he'll be, the Eagles are going to have one of the best WR duos in the league for many years to come.

The Eagles have made some significant upgrades to an already very good team. They've gotten younger, faster, and better all at the same time. They're built to win now and for many years to come. If they're not the team to beat now in the NFC, I don't know who is. If that's what "cheap" gets you, I hope they're the tightest motherfuckers in the league.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Gilee, that was dead-on!  Great synopsis of the Eagles draft/off-season.   

[faldor]

I wouldn't get TOO excited about Ellis Hobbs.  He's a serviceable CB, but nothing special.  He's very inconsistent.  Best served as a nickel back, can hold his own as a starter but he's certainly not a #1 corner.  I realize the Eagles don't need him to be with Asante, I'm just saying.  He's much more effective on special teams, returning kicks.  He gives them some depth at the position but he's a fringe starter at best.

[sandman]

You two guys (gilee and axl4prez) are the same people crying all the time about mcnabb not having enough weapons on offense. Both of you have lobbied for the eagles to get Boldin so mcnabb could finally have ?a true #1 receiver.? both of you have used that "fact" as an excuse for mcnabb not winning it all.

I say go get mcnabb one of the best WRs in the league, but all of a sudden you people disagree with me?

call me crazy, but i'd rather have Boldin lining up at WR than Maclin.

[Axl4Prez2004]

You two guys (gilee and axl4prez) are the same people crying all the time about mcnabb not having enough weapons on offense. Both of you have lobbied for the eagles to get Boldin so mcnabb could finally have ?a true #1 receiver.? both of you have used that "fact" as an excuse for mcnabb not winning it all.

I say go get mcnabb one of the best WRs in the league, but all of a sudden you people disagree with me?

call me crazy, but i'd rather have Boldin lining up at WR than Maclin.

Sandman, that's cool, but I wouldn't say I have been "crying" about it...it's just difficult to get the economics to work out.  Teams have choices...where do you want to put the money?  If the Eagles pay Boldin $10 mill+, they won't be able to afford other big-name stars, i.e. Westbrook, McNabb, Samuel.  Do you not sign a #1 cb like Samuel, and run the risk of having a shoddy secondary just to add that #1 wr weapon?  It's not as easy as it sounds...and like I said, you're starting to sound like a Democrat!  Spend now, spend now, spend now!     I think the same thinking was used with Tony Gonzales.  TG costs money...what is he, the 2nd highest paid TE? 

[D]

Eagles are cheap bastards though

they'd rather pay Maclin 4 mil than Boldin 10 mil


Maclin has bust potential though due to catching a shit ton of bubble screens in college. I don't think he or Crabtree are locks to be great.

neither guy are great route runners and in the NFL that is what u need.

I see Maclin being maybe Ted Ginn

Crabtree seems to have big play ability but Texas Tech's offense attributed to a lot of that. He isn't as fast or big as originally thought.

U always have to worry about the system guy.

[faldor]

It's also rare for WR's to have an instant impact in the NFL.  It usually takes about 3 years.  You have exceptions every once in awhile, most notably the aforementioned Boldin.  Desean Jackson was pretty good for a rookie last year, but I can almost guarantee that Macklin won't put up numbers anywhere near Boldin for the next 2 years, if ever.

[Axl4Prez2004]

U always have to worry about the system guy.

Matt Cassel anyone?     j/k, he seems to be pretty good...but yeah, it's a concern.

On the Eagles front, I guess what I'm getting at is, should the Eagles have traded out of the 1st round, not paid the money to a good young receiver like Maclin, and signed Boldin for $10+ mill./year?  I like what they did better than that.  I'm sure Peters and Stacey Andrews cost a pretty penny as well.  Gilee summed up the additions very well.  This team is much stronger now compared to the team that lost to AZ.

[sandman]

You two guys (gilee and axl4prez) are the same people crying all the time about mcnabb not having enough weapons on offense. Both of you have lobbied for the eagles to get Boldin so mcnabb could finally have ?a true #1 receiver.? both of you have used that "fact" as an excuse for mcnabb not winning it all.

I say go get mcnabb one of the best WRs in the league, but all of a sudden you people disagree with me?

call me crazy, but i'd rather have Boldin lining up at WR than Maclin.

Sandman, that's cool, but I wouldn't say I have been "crying" about it...it's just difficult to get the economics to work out.  Teams have choices...where do you want to put the money?  If the Eagles pay Boldin $10 mill+, they won't be able to afford other big-name stars, i.e. Westbrook, McNabb, Samuel.  Do you not sign a #1 cb like Samuel, and run the risk of having a shoddy secondary just to add that #1 wr weapon?  It's not as easy as it sounds...and like I said, you're starting to sound like a Democrat!  Spend now, spend now, spend now!     I think the same thinking was used with Tony Gonzales.  TG costs money...what is he, the 2nd highest paid TE? 

no offense, but you are 100% wrong. look up the eagles cap numbers for the last few years. then check this year. they are $40M UNDER. so the economics work out really well. no mortgaging of the future is necessary.

even after signing all of their draft picks and reworking Peters contract, they will be significantly under the cap. even assuming they sign some young players to long term deals, they will still be far under the cap.

managing the cap well is important. drafting well is important. acquiring first class talent via trades and FA to get you over the hump is important.

i'm absolutely STUNNED that any fan of football would think it's better to have Maclin than Boldin. based on that logic.....we're gonna pay big bucks for Peters....why not hold on to that 1st round pick and draft a LT, or sign a cheap one?