2009 NFL Season/Off Season discussion

[Axl4Prez2004]

D, nobody here is saying Orton is better than Cutler.  I explained that because of the quality of targets in Denver combined with the fact Denver couldn't stop Napoleon Dynamite from scoring td after td (Denver's Defense sucks ass),
and Chicago's receivers reeeeally suck ass, I said Orton will put up bigger numbers than Cutler.  Add to that, Orton doesn't cry like a pussy when he's in a competition to be the #1 guy.  He was classy in his qb competition with Grossman...who btw, wasn't Grossman an SEC college qb too, like Cutler?  (I think, not certain)

One more reason the Bears overpaid...Cutler's behavior off the field should have de-valued him somewhat.  What happens when this pussy gets hurt and the coach wants to put in a healthy backup.  Does Cutler pout?  The Jeff George comparison may be a bit much...I'd have to hear from his teammates to see what dirty laundry gets aired...and remember, he was in Denver.  Chicago's a lot bigger and the media glare is a lot brighter.  It will be interesting to see this guy in a major metropolitan area and how he handles the pressure.

Yes D, we should leave a sticky note on this page of the thread so we can return at the end of the season. 

...and yes, COma summed up perfectly just some of the reasons Plaxico's a dumb-ass.  How 'bout the many, many, m a n y missed practices that he was fined for but the public wasn't shown until after the fact?  How about the multiple domestic abuse complaints??  Hitting a woman???  This guy is a grade A asshole, in my eyes way worse than TO.  I hope his ass is in jail for 3 fucking years.  Once he serves his time, I will gladly view him with a clean slate.  For now though, he's garbage in my eyes.

[Drew]

P.S.  yes Drew, it's nice to see Plaxico's lazy dumb ass possibly heading to jail.  I was wondering what took NY so long to drop him.  I was kinda thinking NY's owner knew some people in the judicial system and I was going to be pissed if he got a slap on the wrist.  Eli is going to suck tremendous dick this season.  NY will have to win some very low-scoring games, or have their run game completely dominate the opposition...which begs the uestion, can Brandon Jacobs stay healthy for an entire season running as hard as he runs?  I think not.

To be honest, I was completely shocked that the Giants released him. I figured he'd be welcomed back with open arms as it seems these kind of people usually do. Although, I still believe that he will get nothing more than a slap on the wrist from the judicial system. I do hope I'm completely wrong and he goes to prison as he should instead of getting a free pass because he's a celebrity.

[gilee7]

Well, personally, I think the gun laws are way too strict in NY. I don't think Plax should have to do any serious time for what happened. But, as an Eagles fan, I'm very happy the Giants released him, because the Giants and Eli Manning are nowhere near the same team without him.

I'm with D on the Cutler issue, although I don't think the Bears are anywhere close to a "Superbowl contender" just because they added him. Not anywhere close. But the Bears haven't had a really good QB in a very long time, and now they've got one. The Bears haven't had much luck with their drafts in the past few years anyway (Cedric Benson, Rex Grossman), so losing picks isn't really a big deal for them. Good QBs are hard to find in this league, and you have to have one to be successful. The Bears have a solid defense still, Matt Forte was very good last year as a rookie . . . They have pieces. If they can get Cutler some weapons on offense, they could be a real contender in a couple years.

I don't think they really overpaid for Cutler. Plenty of other teams would've given up as much if not more for the guy. You forget, he's only 25. He's not even in his prime yet. He's only going to get better. The ceiling for his potential is very, very high.

My prediction for the upcoming season is that the Broncos suck ass and have one of the worst records in the NFL. I think players like Brandon Marshall will complain a lot about the trade because his stats will go way down. Lots of fans will be calling for the coach's head.

Meanwhile, I think the Bears will contend for the division title. They barely missed the playoffs last year. And the Vikings are fooling themselves if they think Rosenfels is the answer to their QB woes. I still think the Packers way underachieved last year and will be much better this year. Any of those three teams could win the division.

[C0ma]

That was actually New Orleans and not Washington on the Ricky Williams deal


Still though ,when u haven't had a QB in 20 years, Getting Cutler is huge regardless of the price.

This is nowhere near the Hershel or Ricky thing though


one: those guys are RB's and not QB's

QB's are way more valuable than RB's

Chicago gave up 3 picks and they got a 5 from Denver back, so they really aren't losing but 1 draft pick cause like I said, wouldn't u draft Jay Cutler 18th?

Cutler is still very young and is growing. Who knows how great he will be in the years to come.


Had Minnesota made the same deal, they'd be Super bowl bound next season Had they gave up a 1 and a 3 for Cutler, Minnesota fans would be going crazy.  Enjoy sage Rosenfels

Washington got the draft picks from New Orleans... they had two consecutive shitty drafts with all those picks.
just showing one team that did nothing, and another that set themselves up for three Super Bowls. If Denver can turn these picks into gold than Cutler (a sub 500 QB) was worth the trade as far as denver will be concerned. If not than there will be a quick shake up of the Denver Front Office.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Gilee, the gun laws are what they are for good or for bad.  Surely you don't think unlicensed and concealed firearms are cool in Manhattan, right?  In my eyes his repeated domestic abuse charges and combined absences and tardies from practice are even bigger concerns to me.  To follow up on Drew's comments, assholes like Plaxico can be tolerated up to a point.  It's all about one thing...$$$$money$$$$ 

I really think he's going to do some jail time.  The Giants as an organization just want him out on the field being able to focus on football.  If he's missing time during the season, their investment suffers. 

Now, Gilee also said, "The ceiling for his potential is very, very high."  and I say, yeah, it would have been mile-high if he kept his mouth shut and got on board with McDaniels. 

One positive for Cutler is he gets to play the Lions twice a year now. 

Now, Denver knew it was going nowhere with Cutler at the helm.  Yeah the Chiefs and Raiders give them a good shot at 3 to 4 easy wins/year, but with their defense sucking ass, they know they're in trouble and need a big infusion of talent...that's where the picks come in handy.
The Chargers are going to dominate the West next season with Merriman back from injury.  Denver knows this.  Denver's planning for the future.  2 of the top 18 players drafted will be Broncos this year.  If they suck as Gilee says they will, they'll have a top-10 draft pick AND the Bears draft pick next season, again giving them 2 very nice draft picks.  Plan on the Broncos to be below-average this season...but very solid 3 years from now.  Patience is a virtue.   

Now, about my Vikes...I do agree Green Bay will be very, very tough to beat, but believe it or not, Rosenfels is an upgrade over Tarvaris Jackson.  If my Vikings get some help in the secondary, we'll be extremely tough to beat.  ...but I'm telling you now, I really think Chicago is going to regret this move.  btw, what's the over/under on how many games Orlando Pace actually plays in?  The man is a HOFer, but he's been out more games than in the last 2 years if I'm not mistaken.   Apparently, the Bears are looking at wide receiver with their 2nd round pick.  It will be a fun draft!

[Sober_times]

Jay Cutler is a great QB and leader.

Jay Cutler is a great QB and leader?? Ok so now were saying any Quarterback who goes to the pro-bowl one year and has never played in the play-offs is suddenly a GREAT quarterback and leader. No Jay Cutler could be a great QB and leader, but you got to do a lot more than he has to have the words Great and leader describe you.


Ok D. I like Orton. I liked him at Purdue. And I thought he would develop into a good but not great NFL quarterback given the patience to do so. I think in Denver Orton has a better chance to succeed, than he did in chicago, having more weapons around him. He will also be going into a spread offense which is all he did for 4 years at Purdue. He has gotten a lot of praise from team mates such as Urlacher and others for trying to be that leader of a team and just being a great teammate. However, at this point in his career, I would not be shocked if Orton is not starting come september. But given the spread offense that is now going to be employed in Denver, it makes sense for him to get the starting nod unless they draft a quarterback and want to start him immediatly.

At this point Cutler is better than Orton. My problem with Cutler is, I believe he's hit the ceiling. I don't think he will be great in Chicago. And if given the time I do think in the long run Orton would have worked out. Yes, I believe with that strong defense, strong running game, and Kyle Orton, the bears could have gone to where they want to go. Now Cutler may come out this season with a chip on his shoulder and excel in Chicago. The bears may go 10-6 and make the play-offs. But I thought they can do that this coming year with Kyle Orton at quarterback.

The Bears payed 2 first round picks for cutler. This year they paid one but you can't forget they gave up a future first round pick as well. And its way to much for a guy who hasn't even played in a play-off game. He's a one time pro-bowl quarterback. Hes a prospect that a lot of people think is ready to shine. He's not a guarantee. He is not worth 2 first round picks and a 3rd rounder. And maybe next year they have a better season than the Broncos do. But I am telling you, long term, people will look back on this and say, "what were the bears thinking?" And all these people who said it was such a great idea will be screaming bloody murder. And telling anyone who will listen what a horrible mistake the bears made.

[faldor]

The Bears gave up WAY TOO MUCH, end of story!

[Axl4Prez2004]

Hopefully we can get some chatter here going for the draft.
I read the Giants will be getting Braylon Edwards for a 2nd and 5th rounder?  That's a steal.  The Eagles might want to consider beating that deal.

Here's a hilarious link.  The Bears signed a new receiver for Cutler!
Read here:  http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/roster_depleted_bears_sign  Great stuff. 

Eben Briton or Vontae Davis are the players I'm hoping fall to the Vikes. O-line and secondary.  Get a solid wr later. 
Any other wishlists out there for all ya'll's favorite teams?

[D]

The NFL Draft is like my Christmas

I watch Every single second of the draft every year. both days

[Rage in the Cage]

The NFL Draft is like my Christmas

I watch Every single second of the draft every year. both days

I love the draft, but unfortunately because of the new time slot I'll be working during the first day. I've been waiting nearly three months just to come home and check the espn ticker.

[faldor]

My roommate in college got me into the draft.  Before I'd watch maybe the first round or tune in whenever the Patriots were on the clock, but he made a ritual out of it.  He had his own war room going on.  Ever since then I've taken a different outlook on draft day and I watch as much of it as I can.  I used to enjoy the NBA draft WAY more, but now they're pretty close.  Especially since the NBA draft has gone international and young over the years.

[D]

I use to record every draft and then go back at the end of the season and watch it and see how well each team did or see how stupid some of the experts were or how right on the money mel kiper always is.

its great.

it is a huge cheat day diet wise also. we are talkin pizza, cheeze its whatever and its a lovely day

My half Marathon every year falls on the first day of the draft. so I get finished running and get home in time to shower up, get food and not feel guilty while binging and taking it easy

[Axl4Prez2004]

The BEST fucking news of the day!  Collinsworth will be replacing Madden!!!!   

As all ya'll know, I have been singing Collinsworth's praises for a long time.

I respect Madden and wish him all the best in retirement, but Michaels/Collinsworth is a fucking dream team!!!

[tim_m]

Madden retires after 30 years in booth
ESPN.com news services

NEW YORK -- John Madden is retiring from football announcing, where his enthusiastic, down-to-earth style made him one of sports' most popular broadcasters for three decades.

The Hall of Fame coach spent the last three seasons on NBC's "Sunday Night Football." His final telecast was the Super Bowl in February.

"You know at some point you have to do this -- I got to that point," Madden said on his Bay Area radio show Thursday. "The thing that made it hard is not because I'm second guessing, 'Is it the right decision?' But I enjoyed it so damn much.

"I enjoyed the game and the players and the coaches and the film and the travel and everything."

Cris Collinsworth will replace Madden, moving over from the network's studio show, NBC Sports chief Dick Ebersol said. Collinsworth filled in when Madden took a game off last October.

Ebersol called Madden "absolutely the best sports broadcaster who ever lived."

Madden said his health is fine, but at the age of 73, he wanted to spend more time with his family. His 50th wedding anniversary is this fall, and his five grandchildren are old enough to notice when he's gone.

"If you hated part of it or if something was wrong, it'd be easy," Madden said.

Madden's blue-collar style and love for in-the-trenches football endeared him to fans. His "Madden NFL Football" is the top-selling sports video game of all time.

"We're excited to see his legacy live on in the 21st year of Madden NFL football, and well beyond. It's been a privilege for EA Sports to have had the strong relationship we've had with John for more than two decades and one that will continue into the future," EA Sports president Peter Moore said in a statement.

Madden is reluctant to fly and often traveled to games in a specially equipped bus.

Longtime broadcast partner Al Michaels said Madden will have a unique place in pro football history.

"No one has made the sport more interesting, more relevant and more enjoyable to watch and listen to than John," Michaels said in a statement. "There's never been anyone like him and he's been the gold standard for analysts for almost three decades."

Madden began his pro football career as a linebacker coach at Oakland in 1967 and was named head coach two years later, at 33 the youngest coach in what was then the American Football League.

Madden led the Raiders to their first Super Bowl victory and retired in 1979. He joined CBS later that year.

He worked at CBS until 1994 when the network lost rights to broadcast NFL games, leading him to switch to Fox. He left Fox in 2002 to become the lead analyst for ABC's "Monday Night Football" and joined NBC in 2006 when that network inaugurated a prime-time Sunday game.

Madden said that for the last several years, he waited until two months after the season to determine whether to continue, not wanting to rush into a decision. He surprised Ebersol when he told him last week he was retiring.

Ebersol flew to California on Wednesday morning and spent 11 hours with Madden, trying to persuade him to change his mind. Ebersol even offered to allow Madden to call games only in September and November and to take October and December off.

"I knew right away there was no way of talking him out of it," Ebersol said. "I knew in his voice he really thought about this."

Madden was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2006.

"There is one thing football fans have agreed on for decades: they all love John Madden," NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said in a statement. "John was a Hall of Fame coach before becoming one of the most-celebrated personalities in sports. He had an incredible talent for explaining the game in an unpretentious way that made it more understandable and fun.

"John's respect and passion for the game always stood out. He was the ultimate football fan who also happened to be an extraordinarily talented coach and broadcaster."

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

[Drew]

As far as NFL television analyst, Al Michaels, Frank Gifford, and Dan Dierdorf were the best all time on Monday Night Football in my opinion.

[D]

Gonna miss Madden

I still love hearing Phil Simms and Jim Nantz on CBS  Troy Aikman is awesome but I hate Joe Buck

[kmorgan]

As far as NFL television analyst, Al Michaels, Frank Gifford, and Dan Dierdorf were the best all time on Monday Night Football in my opinion.

Don't forget Don Meredith on Monday Night Football!!  "Turn out the lights... the party's over!!!"  That's my family!

[Sober_times]

First of all, it is a very sad day as to me John Madden is part of the NFL. I cant begin to describe how much i'll miss him. Yeah he was a total moron sometimes but he had this charm about him that just made you laugh instead of criticize. He was the voice of football for me. It just felt right to hear John Madden call a game. He is the best there is, was, or ever will be. At least for me, who grew up in the era of John Madden. For my dad the voice of sports was Howard Cosell. For me, the voice of my favorite sport, will always be John Madden. And I thank him for that. I will miss this always great, but somewhat moronic, sportscaster.


Now Axl4Prez I could not disagree with you more. I absolutely hate collinsworth and his better than everyone else attitude. He sounds like a condescending dick every time he speaks. A horrible choice.

And who the hell said Dierdorf is good??!! Does anybody watch CBS games these days. The guy is a total idiot.

Now I don't know who I would choose to replace a legend like John Madden but I definetly would not have chosen Collinsworth. What a douche. 

[gilee7]

I haven't been this excited about an Eagles offseason since the year they got TO.

Today they traded the 28th pick in this year's draft, a 4th round pick, and a 6th-rounder next year to the Bills for Pro-Bowler OT Jason Peters. That now shores up the Eagles new offensive line. With Shawn and Stacy Andrews, and now Peters,  that gives the Eagles three Pro-Bowl caliber OL. The Eagles now have one of the best offensive lines in the league, and each player is only in his 20's. Very, very exciting.

I know fans were upset about Dawkins leaving. I was, too. He was the emotional leader of that defense. But he's also getting up in years and his abilities are declining. The Eagles went out and got safety Sean Jones, who's younger, faster, and a very good player. They also have Demps, an exciting young safety they drafted last year. The Eagles are going to be fine at that position, if not better. And the rest of their starting defense from last year--- which finished what? ranked 3rd in the league?--- is back for next season.

The Eagles got FB Leonard Weaver, which is the first true FB the Eagles have had in quite a while. I mean, last year they were freakin' starting a DT at that position! Weaver will really help out the running game with his blocking; he can be used in short-yardage situations, and he can catch out of the backfield. 

I can't wait until the NFL Draft. Boldin is possiblly up for grabs. The Eagles still have the 21st pick in the first round. They could trade that and a third and whatever else to bring him in. That would be huge. Boldin on one side, Jackson on the other, with Curtis in the slot, and Avant and Baskett also out there--- that'd be the best WR corps in the league. I think I'd actually rather the Eagles land RB Knowshon Moreno, though. Westbrook's near 30 (or already is), he's banged up a lot. They need to find his back-up and eventual replacement. Moreno should be that guy.

Perfect scenario: The Eagles land Moreno in the draft, and then trade a 2nd-rounder and whatever else to get Braylon Edwards.

Regardless, I think the Eagles have already put themselves in position to finally win a Superbowl. I'd say they're the favorite in the NFC.

[Axl4Prez2004]

High Times, we can agree on Dierdorf.  He's terrible. 
Collinsworth may come off at times as condescending...but he's right when he's issuing his condemnation.  He analyzes the x's and o's incredibly well.  He is able to give in-depth analysis right away.  I respect that.  Hell, even Madden admits he's the best out there.  Pairing him up with another all-star in Al Michaels (my personal fav.) is a dream team. 

I will say Madden will go down as one of the all-time greats.  He's the grandpa everybody wishes they had.  The turducken blew away Phil Simms' mom's pies, golden gobblers, and friggin "iron" awards on Turkey Day.  Who doesn't want to see the victors eat a bird with 7 legs?   

I also agree big time with D, Nantz and Simms are a good team, and Aikman has improved big-time since his 1st year in the booth...he's one of my favs. now.  Aikman's "rep." allows him to say stuff that Collinsworth gets ragged on for.
Buck is fucking terrible.  Damn that little twirp ticks me off at times. 

Gilee7 is correct...the Eagles have had an amazing off-season...but they still need a wr.  From what the rumor mill was kicking around, the G-men were expected to get Edwards for a 2nd and 5th rounder.  The Eagles have the 53rd overall pick in the 2nd round, and the Giants have the 60th.  I'm sure Cleveland wouldn't mind getting a better pick from Philly.  Honestly though, I like Boldin a lot more than Edwards, but both are #1 type, red-zone threat receivers...of which Philly has none currently.