A new fans take on Chinese Democracy.

[Principessa]

It sounds as if all the band members recorded their parts seperately - most of the tracks sound very pieced together.

Other highlights for me are Madagascar (what a powerful epic that one is) and There Was A Time.

I'm still not entirely convinced the new GN'R are a real unit in the way the old group were.

Listen to There Was A Time and focus on the part where the band members come together to sing:

"there was a time, didn't want to know at all...." (and Axl sings above them, the second time).

There is a real sense of unity there.

Also, listening to the CD is one thing - an awesome experience in its own right.

Seeing the band live is another! This is where you get that live experience of the musicians feeding off eachother!

If you get the opportunity to catch them live sometime - GO! 

[MattyJam]

It sounds as if all the band members recorded their parts seperately - most of the tracks sound very pieced together.

Other highlights for me are Madagascar (what a powerful epic that one is) and There Was A Time.

I'm still not entirely convinced the new GN'R are a real unit in the way the old group were.

Listen to There Was A Time and focus on the part where the band members come together to sing:

"there was a time, didn't want to know at all...." (and Axl sings above them, the second time).

There is a real sense of unity there.

Also, listening to the CD is one thing - an awesome experience in its own right.

Seeing the band live is another! This is where you get that live experience of the musicians feeding off eachother!

If you get the opportunity to catch them live sometime - GO! 

The second they touch ground on UK soil, I'm there!

[sworrm]

Locomotive, a band jamming? Then why is Slash playing both lead and rythm? Skilled that one, and Izzy isn't even on it.  I think that's one of the most pieced together Guns song if any.

Well it may not have been recorded live or anything, but the band sounds like a unit... they sound tight and they're complementing eachother well.... that's more what I meant...

I agree that may be the case with AFD, even though it's probably not as "live" as people belive. I'm not a musician myself so I can't really say what is what, but I'm sure that on record it's more than just two guitars on there. Sure there is a more live feel there. For me that is mostly because of the rythm unit, of Steven, Duff and Izzy more than anything. For me, Illusions are "destroyed" by Matt Sorum, he hasn't the groove Steven and Frank has noor the skills of Brain
And it got worse with Gilby on Incident if he is to be heard on there at all

I agree about Sorum ive been playing drums for 25 years and i always felt he was to machine/robot like , yes he had good skills but he didnt groove. Adler was basic with limited skills but his feel was perfect for Appetite, and Brain is simply the best drummer GnR have had

[axljungle]

It sounds as if all the band members recorded their parts seperately - most of the tracks sound very pieced together.

In UYI albums the band members recorded their parts separately too. I thing that the sound of Chinese Democracy it's similar to the UYIs albums.

[waxlrick]

i think mattyjam's answer was pretty mature for a new fan.

I agree!!

Although I have to say, Sorry is my Favorite because of Axl's vocal delivery.

[faldor]

It sounds as if all the band members recorded their parts seperately - most of the tracks sound very pieced together.

Other highlights for me are Madagascar (what a powerful epic that one is) and There Was A Time.

I'm still not entirely convinced the new GN'R are a real unit in the way the old group were.

Listen to There Was A Time and focus on the part where the band members come together to sing:

"there was a time, didn't want to know at all...." (and Axl sings above them, the second time).

There is a real sense of unity there.

Also, listening to the CD is one thing - an awesome experience in its own right.

Seeing the band live is another! This is where you get that live experience of the musicians feeding off eachother!

If you get the opportunity to catch them live sometime - GO! 

The second they touch ground on UK soil, I'm there!

MattyJam, not sure if you've covered this, but how/why did you just recently become a fan of GNR?  Am I to assume you were too young to appreciate AFD, Lies, and UYI's when they came out?  What made you give them a try NOW?  Great timing by the way, just in time for CD to be released.  You could've joined this party 9 years ago and waited patiently along with all of us.  Of course you did miss out on a couple kick ass tours.  Definitely see them in person the next time they hit your area.  I can't recommend it enough.

[Adam_Guill]

I'm still not entirely convinced the new GN'R are a real unit in the way the old group were. Axl's name comes first on every single track on the songwriting credits.

Personally, i blame the alphabet. Damn you alphabet, and your soup

[younggunner]

Why is it a big deal if some fans like some demos over the finals? Its just like the old material, some fans prefer the stripped down Illusion demos to the finals and vice versa. Im sure 99% of the people who prefer the demos bought the album regardless.

The only demo that I prefer is Catcher. I dont mind the solo but the mix during the epic/classic lyrical outro is way too high/cludded. The demo overall has a more peaceful pace and vibe to it.

I dont think its a bad thing if people prefer certain outakes over the finals. What matters is that they bought the album.

[jarmo]

Because the leaks were not the songs that the artist wanted you to hear?

So something unfinished becomes the measurement for quality all of a sudden.




/jarmo

[younggunner]

Because the leaks were not the songs that the artist wanted you to hear?

So something unfinished becomes the measurement for quality all of a sudden.

But what is the big deal? Are people not buying CD because of that? That is what fans of any band do. They always have preferences over what a band does over a period of time. Didnt the Beatles once release an album of demos? Im sure other bands do as well.  Its not that big of a deal.

So if people prefer a version of The Blues, CD, or Madagascar from 2001-2006 they arent allowed to do so because it wasnt a finished version? Then why did they play it live?

[Principessa]

But what is the big deal?

The big deal is that music was stolen from the band and then released over the Internet (without permission).

The big deal is that this criminal act is now being investigated by the FBI.

If the band wants to play their own material live at concerts it is their choice. If it wasn't for the leaks we all could have heard the music at concerts alot sooner.

I can assure you that most people aren't buying the album just so they can compare the leaks and the final product, if that is what you are insinuating.

GN'R also has an older fan base who DO NOT take part in the internet/downloading culture.



Why have the signature that you have, if you can't understand what the big deal is.
"our hearts, lives and passions have been put into this project..."

[jarmo]

But what is the big deal? Are people not buying CD because of that? That is what fans of any band do. They always have preferences over what a band does over a period of time.

Well, the "big deal" is that you "wait" for something for years. Then you get your hands on an unfinished version and you listen to it for a long period of time. You get attached to it (same thing can happen to albums/songs that were released ages ago). It becomes the version of the song that you love.

Along comes the album with its finished versions as they were intended to be.

Can you judge it for what it is? No, because you're already attached to the unfinished versions and everything is compared to those. Those were your first taste of the songs.


Now, if you had heard the album first and then the leaks. Then you might have a point. In your case, I know that didn't happen.



I don't know if you understood that the leaks weren't meant to be out there? So basically you're judging something that the artist didn't want the public to judge in the first place.

I happen to think it's the artist's right to decide when the audience can see/hear his/her work. It's not up to some attention seeker no matter how hard he/she tries to act like a Robin Hood.



Then of course you have those who like to whine about everything so obviously the album can't be as good as the leaks to them.

So if people prefer a version of The Blues, CD, or Madagascar from 2001-2006 they arent allowed to do so because it wasnt a finished version? Then why did they play it live?

So now it's about live versions? Is that the excuse now?

Does anybody actually say they prefer the live versions to the studio versions on the album?

That's apples and oranges....





/jarmo

[younggunner]

The big deal is that music was stolen from the band and then released over the Internet (without permission).

The big deal is that this criminal act is now being investigated by the FBI.

Im not saying that isnt a big deal

I can assure you that most people aren't buying the album just so they can compare the leaks and the final product, if that is what you are insinuating.

Im not saying people are buying the album to compare demos and leaks. Im saying that its not a big deal if a FAN prefers a particular version of a song over another. 99% of the time that same fan will have went out and bought the album( in most cases, bought multiple copies). If they prefer an older version of a song or the final shouldnt matter. Thats what fans do. Now if that same "fan" who heard the leaks and based their decision not to buy the album because they didnt like the songs then that is different.

GN'R also has an older fan base who DO NOT take part in the internet/downloading culture.

Well your in the minority because I think that the majority of people, young or old, who have been coming to these sites during the dark years, dloaded the leaks. Given the situation I dont think they should be looked down upon because of that.(as long as they followed through and purchased the album)

Why have the signature that you have, if you can't understand what the big deal is.
"our hearts, lives and passions have been put into this project..."

why not? plus I think Axl was talking about the whole band history when making that quote

So now it's about live versions? Is that the excuse now?

Does anybody actually say they prefer the live versions to the studio versions on the album?

That's apples and oranges....

I wont quote all of your post because the poster before you basically has the same theme. So my answers to that can be applied to yours...

Yea some people prefer some of the live versions to the actual final cut. I think with money on the line I would showcase the Rio version of Madagascar to the final. Doesnt mean I dont like the final. I like the final cut of Madagascar as well as the rest of the album.

I dont know how much more I can show my appreciation for CD then by saying its at worst the 2nd best GNR album ever. It might not have the radio hits that the Illusions had but in terms of an album as a whole, I think CD is better than the Illusions. Too much filler on the Illusions whereas CD really doesnt have any.

WIth that being said, that doesnt mean I cant prefer a particular demo or take on a song that the band did compared to the final or vice versa. Just like I prefer the 2002 lineup to any gnr lineup..old or new...does that mean I think the Illusions or AFD blow or the old band blows?

Does Axl really have a problem with the fans who dloaded the leaks? I doubt it. If he did why would he agree to play a show that he said happened because of  "downloading motherfuckers".http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQZTDywlJW8
listen from 30 seconds on
 Some people here like to twist what Axl says so that they can elevate their fan status or something. The sooner that stops the better.

[Principessa]

Given the situation I dont think they should be looked down upon because of that.

Yeh, in Axl's words you are "downloading muthafuckers"  He took the opportunity to tell you all exactly what he thought about it.


Look, dude if you prefer to listen to some non-mastered music that is not the finished product, then that is your choice.

But you are really denying yourself the final product listening experience that Axl really wanted his fans to hear.

Nothing comes close to hearing the music as it is meant to be heard on a good system.

[younggunner]

Yeh, in Axl's words you are "downloading muthafuckers"   He took the opportunity to tell you all exactly what he thought about it.

Does Axl really have a problem with the fans who dloaded the leaks? If he did why would he agree to play a show that he said happened because of  "downloading motherfuckers".http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQZTDywlJW8

nice try though 

Look, dude if you prefer to listen to some non-mastered music that is not the finished product, then that is your choice.

But you are really denying yourself the final product listening experience that Axl really wanted his fans to hear.

Nothing comes close to hearing the music as it is meant to be heard on a good system.

show me where I say I prefer listening to non mastered music over the finsihed product.

[Principessa]

Well, if you are not saying that you prefer listening to the leaks over the final versions,

why are you on here arguing and taking a stance that seems to reflect/validate a preference for some leaks over the final versions??


So you are just arguing in general, for the sake of it, on the behalf of other fans who may prefer the leaks then?

How noble of you.

[younggunner]

Well, if you are not saying that you prefer listening to the leaks over the final versions,

why are you on here arguing and taking a stance that seems to reflect/validate a preference for some leaks over the final versions??


So you are just arguing in general, for the sake of it, on the behalf of other fans who may prefer the leaks then?

How noble of you.

I prefer listening to as much gnr music as I can...no matter the form or stage of development.

As to why Im in this thread its because I dont think Axl was commenting towards people who dloaded the leaks like you and some others are suggesting. I hate when I see people try to reject a fans opinion on GNR just because Axl might have a different take or they twist what Axl says to fit their arguments and fan status.

[jarmo]

Im not saying that isnt a big deal

No. You just want to know what the big deal is.

I wont quote all of your post because the poster before you basically has the same theme. So my answers to that can be applied to yours...

That's so convenient!

I didn't even bring up album sales but yet that is your defense. "I bought the album too!"....

WIth that being said, that doesnt mean I cant prefer a particular demo or take on a song that the band did compared to the final or vice versa.

Nobody's stopping you from preferring anything. Doesn't mean I have to agree with you.

If you read the whole quote of Axl's answer, you'll see that there's more to it than just liking something you weren't supposed to hear in the first place.

Some people here like to twist what Axl says so that they can elevate their fan status or something.

Some people here don't like it when Axl says something that hurts their feelings.

I dont think Axl was commenting towards people who dloaded the leaks like you and some others are suggesting.

Which comment? The one in the Q&A was a leak related question! He even mentions the word fan in his answer.

The last time Guns N' Roses had a new album out, the Internet was barely a reality. What was your response to the nine-song leak this summer?

Having someone jeopardize your efforts so cavalierly is pretty much a nightmare. I don't know that it hurt us though, at least as one might think. Hard to say. That's not to imply leaks don't hurt artists, but that they were earlier roughs and the level of sound quality is much higher with the finals. That said, you have those who become emotionally attached to how the leaks sound, which, for better or worse, usually isn't so great to contend with. And it seems that those who often do so and complain publicly, oddly and coincidentally, have a history of basically being detractors as well even if they're somehow considered part of a "fan" base.

Doesn't he basically say that the whiners are considering themselves to be fans?

Ironically, you and others keep attacking anybody who dares to question what kind of a fan you are.

Those who are supportive of the band are labeled "ass kissers" while those who are constantly whining are the "real fans". Well, at least that's how they see themselves. The ones who spend their time and energy trying to bring the band, and everybody who supports them down, are the "real fans". Where's the logic in that?

Does Axl really have a problem with the fans who dloaded the leaks?

Is that you feeling guilty and trying to justify your choices?






/jarmo

[younggunner]

Some people here don't like it when Axl says something that hurts their feelings.

I suppose but who here had their feelings hurt?

Doesn't he basically say that the whiners are considering themselves to be fans?

Ironically, you and others keep attacking anybody who dares to question what kind of a fan you are.

Those who are supportive of the band are labeled "ass kissers" while those who are constantly whining are the "real fans". Well, at least that's how they see themselves. The ones who spend their time and energy trying to bring the band, and everybody who supports them down, are the "real fans". Where's the logic in that?




Quote from: younggunner on Today at 03:19:22 PM
Does Axl really have a problem with the fans who dloaded the leaks? 

Is that you feeling guilty and trying to justify your choices?

So then why did Axl play the Inland Invasion gig? He clearly states in the link that because of downloading motherfuckers they were asked to play the gig. He took the time and money to play the show. If someone is so dead set against something then how can they take money and support from the people they are dead set against?

I dont feel guilty at all for dloading the leaks. I dont think Axl is mad at the people who did either. It comes down to the assholes in the media and some extreme fans who Axl is referring to.

[D]

I am personally very happy we got the leaks.  I now have a version of Catcher I love that i can stick on my own version of Chinese Democracy. It also gave the fans something to hold onto while we were waiting.

Im sure pretty much everyone who got some leaks still bought a copy or two and really, Catcher and maybe The Blues are the only leaks I can honestly say are better than what we ended up with. The rest were brilliantly worked up.