A new fans take on Chinese Democracy.

[MattyJam]

You may remember I was the guy who started the "I'm new to GN'R" thread a month or so back...

After getting AFD and the UYI albums a few months ago, I finally went out and bought the new record last week.

At first, I was disappointed. Initially, I didn't think it sounded like a 'real' band in the way the old albums did. And whilst the album has grown on me considerably since I first got it, I stand by that one criticism. It sounds as if all the band members recorded their parts seperately - most of the tracks sound very pieced together. Listen to a song like Locomotive - that is the sound of a band jamming, a group of musicians being engrossed in the moment and seeing where it takes them. I don't get this impression from any tracks on the new album.

That's my one and only gripe though. The opening three tracks are probably their strongest set of consecutive album tracks since the opening trio on AFD. The title track is so cool and grungey, Shackler's Revenge is a definate album highlight (is it true Buckethead wrote this and if so, why isn't he credited on the liner notes?) and Better has a lot of single potential.

Other highlights for me are Madagascar (what a powerful epic that one is) and There Was A Time. The only track which doesn't really move me is Sorry. Axl's somewhat contrived vocal delivery irritates me on this one for some reason.

I'm still not entirely convinced the new GN'R are a real unit in the way the old group were. Axl's name comes first on every single track on the songwriting credits. And none of the others get a lead vocal either.

But as an album, it's a more than worthy addition to their excellent back catalogue - which is undoubtedly an achievement in itself.

[gilee7]

Trust me, Chinese Democracy will continue to grow on you. Although I slightly agree with you about how the band doesn't always sound like a cohesive unit. But what can you expect when you've been working on a song for many, many years, with various musicians coming and going? I think the song it's most evident on is "Catcher in the Rye," especially at the end with Axl singing over Bumblefoot's solo. Instead of complementing one another, they both seem to be fighting for dominance. That's the one song I wish was more stripped back.

I don't know yet where I rank Chinese Democracy among the AFD and UYI albums. It's still too early to tell. Even though I think AFD is their most flawless album, UYI 1 has always been my personal favorite.

[Sillything]

Locomotive, a band jamming? Then why is Slash playing both lead and rythm? Skilled that one, and Izzy isn't even on it.  I think that's one of the most pieced together Guns song if any.

Bucket is credited, "Caroll"

[SLCPUNK]

Listen a few more times, get a few in there with headphones, and then get back to us....

[MattyJam]

Even though I think AFD is their most flawless album, UYI 1 has always been my personal favorite.

That's always how I felt.

I think the reason I was initially disappointed is because CD is so different from the other albums and it took some getting used to. And also (dare I say it), I do miss Slash's solos and Izzy and Duff's songwriting contributions.

Anyway, that was then and this is now. Axl's voice is still superb - perhaps even better than back in the day. The songwriting is still of an excellent standard and most importantly the passion is still there.

One of my personal favourite parts of the new record is Buckethead's crazy guitar work at the end of Shackler's Revenge. It's buried quite a bit in the mix, but it's truly superb.

[D]

truth is, u are actually listening to Two separate bands, so of course it is gonna sound very different.

CD is an album that takes some listens to fully get cause it has a lot of stuff going on. I remember hating Scraped when I first heard it, and now I think it is one of the top 3 songs on the CD.


Only songs on CD I never cared much for are Better and IRS.

the rest I have liked a lot at one time or the other.

Catcher was my fave leak but Bumble's solos kill it for me now.

[MattyJam]

Locomotive, a band jamming? Then why is Slash playing both lead and rythm? Skilled that one, and Izzy isn't even on it.  I think that's one of the most pieced together Guns song if any.

Well it may not have been recorded live or anything, but the band sounds like a unit... they sound tight and they're complementing eachother well.... that's more what I meant...

[ppbebe]

maybe it due to the fact you can hear every part on cd clearly. save the 'murmur' on riad of course.

[Sillything]

Locomotive, a band jamming? Then why is Slash playing both lead and rythm? Skilled that one, and Izzy isn't even on it.  I think that's one of the most pieced together Guns song if any.

Well it may not have been recorded live or anything, but the band sounds like a unit... they sound tight and they're complementing eachother well.... that's more what I meant...

I agree that may be the case with AFD, even though it's probably not as "live" as people belive. I'm not a musician myself so I can't really say what is what, but I'm sure that on record it's more than just two guitars on there. Sure there is a more live feel there. For me that is mostly because of the rythm unit, of Steven, Duff and Izzy more than anything. For me, Illusions are "destroyed" by Matt Sorum, he hasn't the groove Steven and Frank has noor the skills of Brain
And it got worse with Gilby on Incident if he is to be heard on there at all

[+Rocker+]

Chinese Democracy didn't desappoint me at all, because my hopes were not too high. That caused that I enjoyed the record. I mean I never hope a record as great as Appetite and Illusions because I know that without the former musicians in the band were impossible, on the other hand I knew that Axl Rose still was there, that's enough to have a very good record, and I got it.

There's something else I don't get it although, as people says that Chinese Democracy it sounds like old Guns. No way, the only thing in common is the Axl's voice, but all the rest (guitar solos, guitar riff, bass player, drums, etc..) it has nothing to do with the sound of the old Guns. I'm not saying it's better or worst, just different, very different.

[Loaded NightraiN]

Chinese Democracy didn't desappoint me at all, because my hopes were not too high. That caused that I enjoyed the record. I mean I never hope a record as great as Appetite and Illusions because I know that without the former musicians in the band were impossible, on the other hand I knew that Axl Rose still was there, that's enough to have a very good record, and I got it.

There's something else I don't get it although, as people says that Chinese Democracy it sounds like old Guns. No way, the only thing in common is the Axl's voice, but all the rest (guitar solos, guitar riff, bass player, drums, etc..) it has nothing to do with the sound of the old Guns. I'm not saying it's better or worst, just different, very different.

There was never an intention to sound like the old band

[mrlee]

i think mattyjam's answer was pretty mature for a new fan.

[+Rocker+]

Chinese Democracy didn't desappoint me at all, because my hopes were not too high. That caused that I enjoyed the record. I mean I never hope a record as great as Appetite and Illusions because I know that without the former musicians in the band were impossible, on the other hand I knew that Axl Rose still was there, that's enough to have a very good record, and I got it.

There's something else I don't get it although, as people says that Chinese Democracy it sounds like old Guns. No way, the only thing in common is the Axl's voice, but all the rest (guitar solos, guitar riff, bass player, drums, etc..) it has nothing to do with the sound of the old Guns. I'm not saying it's better or worst, just different, very different.

There was never an intention to sound like the old band

I know. Just I wanted express that I am not agree with people that think that way.

[PJ]

One of my personal favourite parts of the new record is Buckethead's crazy guitar work at the end of Shackler's Revenge. It's buried quite a bit in the mix, but it's truly superb.

that's bumblefoot not buckethead

[jarmo]

Catcher was my fave leak but Bumble's solos kill it for me now.

That said, you have those who become emotionally attached to how the leaks sound, which, for better or worse, usually isn't so great to contend with. And it seems that those who often do so and complain publicly, oddly and coincidentally, have a history of basically being detractors as well even if they're somehow considered part of a "fan" base.

Without hearing the leaks, you might've actually liked the track.

Or wait, not you. Somebody else might have. 



/jarmo

[D]

Yeah, Jarmo, I agree the leaks did have an affect on some.


RIR 3 version of The Blues is still my fave version and the CD version just doesn't make me feel the same way as that one did.


Im not sure on Catcher.

The song is perfect lyrically, vocally, melodically, but the solo's just don't match the songs. There is one part when Axl sings "Then the voices went away" there is one guitar lick in there that is awesome and elevates the song

the rest just doesn't take the song higher as guitar solos should. TWAT is a perfect example of a guitar solo being perfect for the song, even "Better' that solo really takes the energy of that song to another level.


With Catcher, Axl is singing some amazing profound lyrics, but u don't get the full power of it cause Bumble's solo is just too high in the mix and just doesn't go with the song.

One of the most perfect solos on CD is on  "Sorry" that right there is one of those solos that make your hair stand up. Even the CD solos are great and If The World is just amazing.

[helenluna]

Catcher was my fave leak but Bumble's solos kill it for me now.

That said, you have those who become emotionally attached to how the leaks sound, which, for better or worse, usually isn't so great to contend with. And it seems that those who often do so and complain publicly, oddly and coincidentally, have a history of basically being detractors as well even if they're somehow considered part of a "fan" base.

Without hearing the leaks, you might've actually liked the track.

Or wait, not you. Somebody else might have. 


/jarmo

It worked that way for me. I didn't hear the leaks at all. And I like all songs in CD, don't have any complaint.
When you all talk about comparisons to the leaked versions, I just don't have any idea what you are saying.
I was bothered by this and tried listening to the leaks after hearing the actual album (I had them at home but never bothered to check them out).
Well, I couldn't even finish listening the first one, the quality is too bad and I have no patience to be studying whatever is inside a bad quality record.
So I keep thinking ChiDem is awesome, because I'm not comparing it to something that was a sketch. What is out now is what GnR wanted to give us.

More on topic, like everyone has said, Chinese Democracy grows on you. Keep listening to it, open minded, and you'll be surprised to find yourself in love with it one day and then forever 

[faldor]

truth is, u are actually listening to Two separate bands, so of course it is gonna sound very different.

CD is an album that takes some listens to fully get cause it has a lot of stuff going on. I remember hating Scraped when I first heard it, and now I think it is one of the top 3 songs on the CD.


Only songs on CD I never cared much for are Better and IRS.

the rest I have liked a lot at one time or the other.

Catcher was my fave leak but Bumble's solos kill it for me now.

The first couple times I heard CITR on the album I missed the Brian May demo version, but after awhile I just accepted it.  I haven't listened to the demo since and I've heard the intended version countless times and now I LOVE IT!  I think Ron does a fine job on the solo and it compliments Axl quite well.

[faldor]

You may remember I was the guy who started the "I'm new to GN'R" thread a month or so back...

After getting AFD and the UYI albums a few months ago, I finally went out and bought the new record last week.

At first, I was disappointed. Initially, I didn't think it sounded like a 'real' band in the way the old albums did. And whilst the album has grown on me considerably since I first got it, I stand by that one criticism. It sounds as if all the band members recorded their parts seperately - most of the tracks sound very pieced together. Listen to a song like Locomotive - that is the sound of a band jamming, a group of musicians being engrossed in the moment and seeing where it takes them. I don't get this impression from any tracks on the new album.

That's my one and only gripe though. The opening three tracks are probably their strongest set of consecutive album tracks since the opening trio on AFD. The title track is so cool and grungey, Shackler's Revenge is a definate album highlight (is it true Buckethead wrote this and if so, why isn't he credited on the liner notes?) and Better has a lot of single potential.

Other highlights for me are Madagascar (what a powerful epic that one is) and There Was A Time. The only track which doesn't really move me is Sorry. Axl's somewhat contrived vocal delivery irritates me on this one for some reason.

I'm still not entirely convinced the new GN'R are a real unit in the way the old group were. Axl's name comes first on every single track on the songwriting credits. And none of the others get a lead vocal either.

But as an album, it's a more than worthy addition to their excellent back catalogue - which is undoubtedly an achievement in itself.

Thanks for your honesty and giving it a shot.  It's always nice to see new fans coming through the doors.  Keep listening, the album SHOULD grow on you.  There's a lot to digest in there, it's not your average run of the mill rock album. 

[MattyJam]

It already has grown on me loads since I first bought it. I've been playing it everyday. I can see it's going to become one of those few albums that I'll want to give repeated listens to for a long long time.