Joe Torre Releases Book Ripping Steinbrenner, A-Rod

[faldor]

It sure hasn't been a very good start to 2009 for ole gAy-Rod.  I love it!  Suddenly if he approaches Bonds homerun record, it won't matter quite as much.  He was supposedly clean this whole time, but not so fast.  Wonder what kind of backlash this will have.  History has proven he should suck it up and admit to it.  Those who have, have been forgiven to an extent (Pettitte, Giambi).  Those who haven't have been exiled in the court of public opinion (McGwire, Bonds, Clemens).  So my advice to Alex is admit it, you cheated.  Now let's move on, but I will never forget it.

I just hope they don't catch any Red Sox anytime soon.

[D]

Guess A shit load of people once again owe Jose Canseco an apology.

[faldor]

Guess A shit load of people once again owe Jose Canseco an apology.

Very true.  He got so much shit for putting out that book and nobody believed him.  I don't think he's been wrong about anything yet though.

[western_chaos]

Nobody owes Canseco an apology.

What he has done to baseball is just woeful. He should have just let the truth come out on it's own, he doesn't need to be involved in this sort of thing.

On the other side of things, I feel awful obviously as a yankee fan, that this guy did do steriods, I thought he was in fact clean...Guess not.

[faldor]

If Canseco didn't speak up guys would probably still be juicing and ruining their bodies, health, and the integrity of the game.  Baseball wasn't doing anything about the situation on its own before Canseco's book came out, so who's to say they ever would've done anything without it?

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Yeah, right.

Everyone knew players were using steroids.  It was common knowledge for two decades.  Did MLB ever do anything about it?

Jose Canseco should go in the Hall of Fame for his part in helping clean up the game.

[pilferk]

It sure hasn't been a very good start to 2009 for ole gAy-Rod.  I love it!  Suddenly if he approaches Bonds homerun record, it won't matter quite as much.  He was supposedly clean this whole time, but not so fast.  Wonder what kind of backlash this will have.  History has proven he should suck it up and admit to it.  Those who have, have been forgiven to an extent (Pettitte, Giambi).  Those who haven't have been exiled in the court of public opinion (McGwire, Bonds, Clemens).  So my advice to Alex is admit it, you cheated.  Now let's move on, but I will never forget it.

I just hope they don't catch any Red Sox anytime soon.

So here's my purely hypothetical question:

What if he's not guilty?  What if, honest to god, truth be told, the guy never knowingly juiced.....either he got a false positive or somebody (Raph, maybe) handed him a "protein shake" after the game, a week before the testing was done?

What should the guy do?

At this point, "we" (meaning the media and the public) are so gunshy...we pretty much instantly convict the guy.  Listening to the sports news this weekend, and on the radio this morning, you would think that A-rod is public enemy number one.....we're talking Osama Bin Laden levels of outrage here.

All without anything more than an SI article that, quite frankly, is short on details.

So how does a guy proceeed, if he's innocent?

Fight?  Well, given what happened with Roger...I don't think the public will buy it.  They'll look at what happened with Clemens and just assume this is more of the same.  And if the guys been clean since then....a "current" test isn't going to prove his innocence.  And nobody is going to take his word for it.....

Sit back and remain silent?  Everyone is going to just assume he's guilty.  We have Big Mac to thank for that...since he's taken that tact and doesn't want to talk about the past.

So what can the guy do?

Again, this is a hypothetical.  I'm not saying, or assuming, the guy is innocent IN REALITY.  But it's a pretty big "what if" that we're left with......"what if", no matter how you feel about the guy personally, or angry you are at him for playing for the Yanks, or any of the other subjective stuff that makes this all the worse for A-Rod (the most hated player on the most hated team), "what if" he really didn't knowingly do it?  Any ideas?

'Cause I'm at a loss.  Baseball's been so beat up that I thinkthe mistrust is (and with good reason) so incredibly prevalent amongst the fans and media, there IS no way for the "innocent man" to fight back.  Which...lets face it, IS a problem.  At least SOME of those 104 players who had positive tests WERE false positives...we just don't know who, or how many.  Statistically, we KNOW it's true, though.  So if ALL those names come out...at least SOME of them likely really ARE innocent.  And yet every single one of those 104 players will likely face something similar (if less "firestorm-y") to what Arod is going to face now....whether they're guilty or not.

So I ask again:  What can a guy do?

[Eazy E]

So I ask again:  What can a guy do?

Poor A-Rod if he's the 1/104 that was a false positive and he owned up to it because there was "nothing he could do".  I guess his reputation will get ruined.  The guy who yells "HA!" and slaps the ball out of gloves and chokes during the playoffs and runs around town with strippers while married will have a bad rep.  Poor, poor A-Rod.

Alright, so he's owned up to it (which means he lied in the past, shock!).  I want the other names!

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

So I ask again:  What can a guy do?

Poor A-Rod if he's the 1/104 that was a false positive and he owned up to it because there was "nothing he could do".  I guess his reputation will get ruined.  The guy who yells "HA!" and slaps the ball out of gloves and chokes during the playoffs and runs around town with strippers while married will have a bad rep.  Poor, poor A-Rod.

Alright, so he's owned up to it (which means he lied in the past, shock!).  I want the other names!

That's not a metric of success.

[AxlsMainMan]

Alright, so he's owned up to it (which means he lied in the past, shock!). 

To sweet, innocent Katie Couric of all people!

[pilferk]

The question remains, though:

Hypothetically it's NOT Arod.  It's some other player, not on the Yanks or Red Sox.  And in the hypothetical, he IS innocent and the test IS false.

The question remains:

What does he do?

Nobody really seems to want to think much about that......

[AxlsMainMan]

Innocent people are wrongfully convicted and executed everyday, the world is an imperfect place.

[faldor]

The question remains, though:

Hypothetically it's NOT Arod.  It's some other player, not on the Yanks or Red Sox.  And in the hypothetical, he IS innocent and the test IS false.

The question remains:

What does he do?

Nobody really seems to want to think much about that......

He tells the truth, but nobody's gonna believe him.  But there's no reason to admit to something you didn't do.  He can say "I know nobody's gonna believe me but I swear on the life of my mother, wife, kids, etc."  But still, no one will buy it.  There's doubt about EVERY MLB player right now.  I honestly thought A-Rod was clean until this weekend, so nothing would surprise me at this point.  This may go away with time but for now the whole era is tarnished.

[D]

I can tell u some players who have juiced it up


how bout Andruw Jones? Dude got fat and hit 158 or something last year. U don't go from 40hr to that in one season

Torri Hunter   use to be a speedy CF leadoff type and started belting out HR's left and right



Ill also say Ken Griffey JR

dude just had some crazy injuries that u see guys taking juice get. all those hamstring problems etc...

don't get me started on pitchers

Josh Beckett seems like a roider for some reason

maybe Randy Johnson

Pedro Martinez  he just seemed to lose it also... maybe injuries, maybe something else.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Albie Pujols.

Book it.

[pilferk]

He tells the truth, but nobody's gonna believe him.  But there's no reason to admit to something you didn't do.  He can say "I know nobody's gonna believe me but I swear on the life of my mother, wife, kids, etc."  But still, no one will buy it.  There's doubt about EVERY MLB player right now.  I honestly thought A-Rod was clean until this weekend, so nothing would surprise me at this point.  This may go away with time but for now the whole era is tarnished.

OK, but...isn't that a problem?  I mean...I DEFINITELY see that as being a problem.  Because suddenly we've taken a legit concern, a legit problem, and we're starting to enter "witch hunt" territory....where anyone and everyone accused is automatically assumed to be guilty. 

I understand the sport is gun shy.  I understand the "atmosphere" surrounding the sport right now makes it hard to believe anyone, in regards to steroids, about anything:  From testing tip offs to use.

I'm just wondering if there is any way that an innocent player could "win" if falsely accused.  Sounds like you don't think there is......

[faldor]

Not unless they have proof, no I don't think it's possible.

[pilferk]

Not unless they have proof, no I don't think it's possible.

But WHAT categorical proof can you possilby have that you haven't done something....especially something that occurred 6+ years ago?

There can't be evidence of something NOT happening, right?  You can't test someone 6+ years later and say "Yes they did" or "No they didn't".  You can only say they're clean now.

So, in essence, those players are screwed?  Again, I see that as a problem....

[faldor]

There are ways to prove you didn't do steroids.  If no positive test exists and there's not overwhelming evidence and testimony against someone than they'd have a right to defend themselves.  Again, it's another question as to whether people will believe them, and I'm sure more than a few wouldn't.  I agree, it is a problem, but it's not going away.  Baseball brought this on themselves.

[sandman]

one thing is certain...A-Rod never used "performance enhancers"...

in October.