There are certain people who should not attend the next tour shows!

[faldor]

Seriously, we're talking about late starting times again?  How many GNR shows do you think you'll attend if/when they tour?  ONE, if you're lucky, maybe two.  Is it gonna kill you to stay out late ONE night?  Really, live a little.  Just plan accordingly.  It's well publicized.  You know you're in for a late night, so deal with it.  If I have tickets for Monday Night Football but have to work the next day I don't complain to the NFL, I suck it up.

[D]

Im only talking about late starting times and how it negatively effects the band's success.


I could care less what time the show starts but it is really hurting their tour grosses.

[faldor]

Im only talking about late starting times and how it negatively effects the band's success.


I could care less what time the show starts but it is really hurting their tour grosses.

I honestly only skimmed over the past couple posts and just saw the mention of late starts.  Maybe this has been covered but how do late starting times negatively effect their success?  Did it effect them negatively in their heyday?

[jarmo]

Again, my main point isnt just about me. Like I said, if you hate me that much over God knows what thats fine. My feelings arent hurt nor do I feel left out of your little fantasy world.

It's funny how you don't care and it's not the point, yet you had to mention it. It's almost like it did matter.....

My "fantasy world" is the same world you begged to be part of.

your such a badass ....cool duudeeeeeee  

Just saying.

Games?? Just because I have different ideas of what a fan is or thoughts on GNR than you doesnt mean Im playing games.

Yes your games.

Remember how badly you wanted to talk about GN'R with me outside this board?

You're the kind of person who acts one way in posts and the opposite in PMs.

All excuses in PMs and this tough guy who doesn't care in posts....

stop acting like youve never responded to my pms. Your lil power trip started AFTER I sent you a congratulations pm. not before. Before that you would always respond to my pms.

Oh, I thought it started years ago.

But I thought you didn't care and it wasn't about you. Now it's about you again.

Make up your mind!


You come across as somebody who's feelings got hurt because I didn't reply to a PM while I was away from home having a good time.

Sorry!

If I had know this had such a tremendous effect on you, I would've made sure I responded to you first before everybody else who sent me messages at the time (not including certain people who you might know).

Noone expects you to mention it daily. Like I have said many times...you deserve everything that comes your way

Thanks.

And there YOU go again.  What I said was that when Axl is paid substantial amounts of money by the audience, it shouldn't be a huge compromise to deliver for these people.  When you're being paid to work for people, as Axl is, you work for those people!  It becomes more than being just about YOU.

So you are feeling owed....

Axl doesn't deliver?

Please clarify.

So what, you think he does it by accident?

Maybe he does it because he has to get ready for the show?

Besides, it's not like he doesn't have time to warm up for the show.  He's there hours in advance.

Because you know what exactly it takes to be Axl Rose and get on that stage. Right.

As I've said, just because it works for the Jons of the world, doesn't mean it works for everybody else.

If you could just understand that little fact....

Seriously, we're talking about late starting times again?  How many GNR shows do you think you'll attend if/when they tour?  ONE, if you're lucky, maybe two.  Is it gonna kill you to stay out late ONE night?  Really, live a little.  Just plan accordingly.  It's well publicized.  You know you're in for a late night, so deal with it.  If I have tickets for Monday Night Football but have to work the next day I don't complain to the NFL, I suck it up.

Hey, somebody else agrees with me!

Don't you dare tell these people to live a little. 





/jarmo

[Bridge]

Maybe this has been covered but how do late starting times negatively effect their success?  Did it effect them negatively in their heyday?

Not in terms of ticket sales, but this isn't their heydey.  This is a new band trying to establish themselves as Guns N Roses -- actually establish themselves period.  This isn't 1991 when the band had more than one original member and were riding a huge wave of success.

And actually, it did affect them negatively in other ways.  Axl's lateness was costing the band hundreds of thousands of dollars in curfew violation fees.  In an interesting side note, at the end of Izzy's tenure in the band, he stormed over to Axl's house one night and told him that if he insisted on going onstage late, the fees should be charged to him and not the band (source: Spin magazine, July 1999).

[faldor]

Maybe this has been covered but how do late starting times negatively effect their success?  Did it effect them negatively in their heyday?

Not in terms of ticket sales, but this isn't their heydey.  This is a new band trying to establish themselves as Guns N Roses -- actually establish themselves period.  This isn't 1991 when the band had more than one original member and were riding a huge wave of success.

And actually, it did affect them negatively in other ways.  Axl's lateness was costing the band hundreds of thousands of dollars in curfew violation fees.  In an interesting side note, at the end of Izzy's tenure in the band, he stormed over to Axl's house one night and told him that if he insisted on going onstage late, the fees should be charged to him and not the band (source: Spin magazine, July 1999).

Well, on the bright side, I don't think the "new" band goes on quite as late as the "old" band used to.  The 2 shows I've gone to have ended at a reasonable hour at least.

[Bridge]

So you are feeling owed....  Axl doesn't deliver?  Please clarify.

Yeah, if I purchase a ticket for the SHOW, yeah, I am owed a show, and out of courtesy for his ticket-buying fans, Axl should deliver one in a reasonable amount of time!

Maybe he does it because he has to get ready for the show?

If he's aware that it takes him an inordinate amount of time to prepare for the show, why not start the preparation regime a little earlier?

Because you know what exactly it takes to be Axl Rose and get on that stage. Right.

No, but apparently you do.

As I've said, just because it works for the Jons of the world, doesn't mean it works for everybody else.

Yeah, well let me throw this out there, maybe it "works" for Axl to be late because he's never truly been held accountable for it.  He's been allowed to do as he pleases for so long, perhaps he's convinced he simply CAN'T go on on time...

[jarmo]

Yeah, if I purchase a ticket for the SHOW, yeah, I am owed a show, and out of courtesy for his ticket-buying fans, Axl should deliver one in a reasonable amount of time!

So it's not about what he delivers, it's about when.

Got it.

If he's aware that it takes him an inordinate amount of time to prepare for the show, why not start the preparation regime a little earlier?

Maybe it's not something that works after a clock?

Like some mornings you're ready to start doing stuff straight when you wake up and other mornings you don't get anything done until midday!

Yeah, well let me throw this out there, maybe it "works" for Axl to be late because he's never truly been held accountable for it.  

Didn't you just prove how he had to pay?

Axl: I've been an after midnight type since I was sneakin' out of my house in Jr. High. With old Guns we preferred 12am or so. When we moved to theaters etc obviously that changes but it's never changed inside me. Doesn't matter what I do so generally that's when I'm more myself. This isn't to mess with anyone that has an early schedule to keep it's just personal preference.

And in regard to the size venues I'm on record as preferring what ever venues allow for our schedule but management and promoters can do a lot in their own interests behind the scenes that can rarely be avoided and their greed or whatever leads to a lot of double talk and ugly behind nonsense that generally eventually ruins things for everyone. Translated once a tour is scheduled however it's like parting the seas to change.

As far as being late, I've been that way my whole life. It drove Izzy crazy but he would check himself and freely admit I was generally actually doing something that had to get done rather than watching basketball etc.

It's the way he is. Why not just accept it?





/jarmo

[Bridge]

So it's not about what he delivers, it's about when.

Got it.

I don't think I ever suggested otherwise.  All of my posts here have pretty much been in regards to the time.

Maybe it's not something that works after a clock?

Like some mornings you're ready to start doing stuff straight when you wake up and other mornings you don't get anything done until midday!

Yeah, but when you have to be at work by eight, you're at work by eight!  That's the problem here, Axl is treating this like it's a day at the park where he doesn't have anyone depending on him.

Didn't you just prove how he had to pay?

Yeah, but he had plenty of funds to cover the fees.  Maybe if the venues stringently enforced the curfews to the point where they flat out wouldn't allow the band to play at all if they took the stage late.  Or if they did the same thing that Vancouver did in 2002 -- pulled the plug on the show when it was obvious Axl wouldn't be there to take the stage at a reasonable hour.  If there were more rigid penalties like that, Axl might think twice about his "internal clock".

It's the way he is. Why not just accept it?

That goes back to what I said earlier.  We're supposed to accept it.  Tolerate it.  Condone it.

[jarmo]

I don't think I ever suggested otherwise.  All of my posts here have pretty much been in regards to the time.

Good to know.

In other words, your ultimate GN'R show would start at 8PM and end around 10PM.

The show itself doesn't matter. Who cares if it included a 20 minute drum solo with Axl reciting lyrics while sitting down.

At least it's on time!

I'd rather have a kick ass full energy show that starts "late" myself. 

Yeah, but when you have to be at work by eight, you're at work by eight!  That's the problem here, Axl is treating this like it's a day at the park where he doesn't have anyone depending on him.

But it's not your typical job is it? Sure, some artists might treat it like one.

We keep going in circles because you keep saying it's a job while your #1 priority with a GN'R show is the time it ends.


To me it sounds like you're not after anything real or organic. Anything that doesn't follow your plan. Maybe watching the DVD in your own home is a better alternative?

Maybe if the venues stringently enforced the curfews to the point where they flat out wouldn't allow the band to play at all if they took the stage late. 

I'm sure GN'R tries to avoid those venues....

"And in regard to the size venues I'm on record as preferring what ever venues allow for our schedule "

- Axl

Or if they did the same thing that Vancouver did in 2002 -- pulled the plug on the show when it was obvious Axl wouldn't be there to take the stage at a reasonable hour.  If there were more rigid penalties like that, Axl might think twice about his "internal clock".

Sucks for the fans in Vancouver.

That goes back to what I said earlier.  We're supposed to accept it.  Tolerate it.  Condone it.

And you can't accept that people are different with different opinions?

I thought I was that person. 



As far as being late, I've been that way my whole life.

- Axl






/jarmo

[younggunner]

My "fantasy world" is the same world you begged to be part of.

Yes your games.

Remember how badly you wanted to talk about GN'R with me outside this board?

You're the kind of person who acts one way in posts and the opposite in PMs.

All excuses in PMs and this tough guy who doesn't care in posts....

WOW. You are insane. That might not even be the word. Begged to be a part of? lollllllll and what world did I beg to be a part of?? Please tell us of this world

We would talk on aim about GNR. Big deal? You decided to stop talking when I began to question the way GNR did things.

As for these pms you mention...I argue the same way in those as I do here on the forum. So stop trying to make it seem like Im a phony. Nice try though.


Thanks for that laugh though. I enjoyed it.

Jarmo can I please be a part of your world?

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

I used to get a kick reading posts made by people who want to run other peoples' lives.

It's gotten totally pathetic now.

Freaks.

[carmiedisco12]

Axl made it on time and did fantastic shows when they were a supporting act

He made it on time and did a great job at the Freddie tribute (he wouldnt have disrespected that audience that day)
The whole things seems like a needy thing....
Im a massive fan of GNR's music, but the band and Axl, in particular are a classic case of sabotaging yourself....in oh so many uneccessary ways

As Ive said It screws over his crew, the younger fans who are forced to quit the show early/ or pay for a taxi, the band financially, and the older fans who have to work

Harden up get on there....No other band member would be allowed to delay a show......imagine if Axl was ready to go on and Frank goes....'no dude ...im not ready to deliver just yet'

If Axl said 'i have anxiety issues im really sorry i just cant go on until im ok' id be fine with that.....but the excuses like....i have to bandage my ankles (yeh??? do it earlier......and 'ive always been a  night person etc are pathetic)

Axl said in 91 that those complaining about getting up early wouldnd complain if they were getting laid.....well I cant see Axl refusing getting laid before midnight ' because im a night person'.

[falungong69]

Harden up get on there....No other band member would be allowed to delay a show......imagine if Axl was ready to go on and Frank goes....'no dude ...im not ready to deliver just yet'

no offense to frank intended, but if he was required to bring as much to the show as axl, then maybe things would be different.  comparing what the drummer does to what the frontman does is absurd, and frankly borders on insulting axl's talent.

[carmiedisco12]

As I said he brought the same or arguably a much higher level of intensity/emotion in the early days at a normal time.

As I said If he said ' look ive got a few issues and im sorry i really cant because ABCD and E' fair enough......but the excuses given so far make zero sense and come across as selfish and nonsensical.

[jarmo]

WOW. You are insane. That might not even be the word. Begged to be a part of? lollllllll and what world did I beg to be a part of?? Please tell us of this world

Somebody who doesn't care doesn't get upset if he doesn't get a reply to one PM.

Somebody who doesn't care doesn't ask why we can't talk about GN'R on some messenger multiple times.

I decided to stop talking to you once I realized how boring you are to talk to. Always the same.


Even though you promised me multiple times that you'd stop these stupid arguments, look at what you're doing again.

Your promises aren't worth a lot it seems. I guess that's classy.



You're desperately trying to make fun of me for using your own quote. You're the one who made up my fantasy world to begin with.

If somebody should explain what that world is, it's you!


Since you're so classy, I don't understand why you couldn't take this personal matter, which it clearly is, up in a personal message?




Everybody can see how you just broke another rule. I guess in my "fantasy world" insults coming from you are jokes and should be allowed.

It's funny, because I remember you promising to behave and that if you broke another rule, you'd have no problems with getting kicked out (again).

So, what's the deal? Another one of your worthless promises?





/jarmo

[falungong69]

please just ban him already.  what's the point in this?  it's ruining everything for the real fans.

[gnrrock]

Like the guy who got punched in the face by a some guy's girlfriend at Greensboro, NC show or the junkie who was shooting up heroin in the middle of the crowd while we were waiting for GN'R to come on...  Wait a minute that was kind of entertaining! 

[younggunner]

Everybody can see how you just broke another rule. I guess in my "fantasy world" insults coming from you are jokes and should be allowed.

It's funny, because I remember you promising to behave and that if you broke another rule, you'd have no problems with getting kicked out (again).

So, what's the deal? Another one of your worthless promises?

what rule have I broken. I just pointed out that it would have been a nice touch if you would have done something like what Eric did. If you cant handle that then I dont know what to tell you. You didnt respond to my positive pm I sent you so why should I pm you something negative? You would only say that I just pm you negative stuff. Yet when I try to put  aside the "negativity" for a moment and genuinely congratulate you you decide to ignore it. which is totally fine. Your trying to have it both ways...as usual.

its ok for you to make inuendos and comments but if I do it its not cool. nice touch

please just ban him already.  what's the point in this?  it's ruining everything for the real fans.

coming from someone who makes insane comments and threads


its funny how "the real fans" can make threads like this one and exclude people from being gnr fans yet when these "real fans" are called out on their own flaws its not cool and people want you banned. go figure

[jarmo]

what rule have I broken.

You are insane. That might not even be the word.

Calling somebody insane when you're not a doctor, or qualified to make that kind of diagnosis, is in many circles considered an insult.

I just pointed out that it would have been a nice touch if you would have done something like what Eric did.

Which I recall responding to you without insulting you or anybody else.

But my answer wasn't good enough for a person who claims to understand that we all have different opinions.

You didnt respond to my positive pm I sent you so why should I pm you something negative?

Once again, I gave you a reason.

Yet when I try to put  aside the "negativity" for a moment and genuinely congratulate you you decide to ignore it.

Yes, I didn't reply to your PM.

It happens that I forget to respond to messages/e-mails.

I admit it!


Did you ever think that out of all the PMs you sent me, that a majority was the same old. So when I was on holidays I saw your name and figured it would be the same old again and didn't pay enough attention to it? Maybe I had a bunch of other messages from people who hadn't kept nagging about the same shit month after month that I responded to?


You didn't answer my question regarding your "promises" to stop arguing. I guess you don't need to.




/jarmo