2009 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[pilferk]

You going to the parade tomorrow Pilf?

Nope...just can't get away from work, etc. If they'd done it on Saturday, I'd be there with bells on.   I WISH I could...but I'll be watching YES tomorrow (I DO work from home on Thursday's and Friday's...which is nice).

[LunsJail]

^^^Falcon - your Texeira comment was priceless  

[GeorgeSteele]

As for ARod putting to bed the "post season choker" tag, maybe so (for now at least).  We tend to remember the most recent events instead of a "body of work" so I'll see if he can build on this post season in the future before I make any sweeping judgements. 

Sorry, I find that somewhat amusing.

His "choker" tag was assigned based on his performance from game 4, 2004 - 2007 post season.  Comprised a total of about 15 games (3 in '04, 4 in '05, 4 in '06, 4 in '07 if memory serves me correctly)....prior to that, his numbers were pretty darn good in the post season (with Seattle, and the 2004 ALDS, and the first 3 games of the '04 ALCS).

His numbers this year, alone, cover 15 games....or exactly the same number of games the "choker" moniker was derived from.

His CAREER post-season numbers are now pretty darn good...so if you're going off "body of work" OR "most recent events", he's pretty much obliterated the "choker" tag.

Like any player attaining a sufficient volume of post-season at-bats, A-Rod's post-season numbers are right on par with his regular season numbers (OPS is about the same, around .970 or so, which is outstanding).

By the same token, Pettite is not particularly clutch in the post-season; his playoff and and regular season ERAs are almost identical (around 3.90).  He's simply a very good pitcher who is remarkably consistent. 

[tim_m]

You going to the parade tomorrow Pilf?

Nope...just can't get away from work, etc. If they'd done it on Saturday, I'd be there with bells on.   I WISH I could...but I'll be watching YES tomorrow (I DO work from home on Thursday's and Friday's...which is nice).

That's too bad at least you'll be able to watch it on tv. I'll be doing the same since i live in Texas now. Thankfully FIOS has YES HD.

[tim_m]

As for ARod putting to bed the "post season choker" tag, maybe so (for now at least).  We tend to remember the most recent events instead of a "body of work" so I'll see if he can build on this post season in the future before I make any sweeping judgements. 

Sorry, I find that somewhat amusing.

His "choker" tag was assigned based on his performance from game 4, 2004 - 2007 post season.  Comprised a total of about 15 games (3 in '04, 4 in '05, 4 in '06, 4 in '07 if memory serves me correctly)....prior to that, his numbers were pretty darn good in the post season (with Seattle, and the 2004 ALDS, and the first 3 games of the '04 ALCS).

His numbers this year, alone, cover 15 games....or exactly the same number of games the "choker" moniker was derived from.

His CAREER post-season numbers are now pretty darn good...so if you're going off "body of work" OR "most recent events", he's pretty much obliterated the "choker" tag.

Like any player attaining a sufficient volume of post-season at-bats, A-Rod's post-season numbers are right on par with his regular season numbers (OPS is about the same, around .970 or so, which is outstanding).

By the same token, Pettite is not particularly clutch in the post-season; his playoff and and regular season ERAs are almost identical (around 3.90).  He's simply a very good pitcher who is remarkably consistent. 

I think many people would debate you on that about Pettitte after what he did this postseason.

[Falcon]

As for ARod putting to bed the "post season choker" tag, maybe so (for now at least).  We tend to remember the most recent events instead of a "body of work" so I'll see if he can build on this post season in the future before I make any sweeping judgements. 

Sorry, I find that somewhat amusing.

His "choker" tag was assigned based on his performance from game 4, 2004 - 2007 post season.  Comprised a total of about 15 games (3 in '04, 4 in '05, 4 in '06, 4 in '07 if memory serves me correctly)....prior to that, his numbers were pretty darn good in the post season (with Seattle, and the 2004 ALDS, and the first 3 games of the '04 ALCS).

His numbers this year, alone, cover 15 games....or exactly the same number of games the "choker" moniker was derived from.

His CAREER post-season numbers are now pretty darn good...so if you're going off "body of work" OR "most recent events", he's pretty much obliterated the "choker" tag.

It's just outside looking in for me, the guy had a fine post season this year and a few less than stellar with the Yanks prior to this one.  Is his legacy cemented either way by success or failure over a like # of games or number of post seasons deemed good or bad, who knows?  I believe
Arod himself said something to the degree that this post season this year wouldn't erase "all those ofers".

Time will tell, it always does.

[tim_m]

I hope it does and he can continue to succeed in the postseason and win more with the yankees. Btw did anyone else catch the post game interview where Rivera said he was pitching hurt? I think it was with Berman and Gammons. He said his side has been hurting, saying he had bruised ribs. They couldn't even score on a hurting Rivera remarkable. The man seems to get better with age. He also mentioned thinking about retirement but said he wants to go another 5 yrs. I'm not sure if he was joking there or not.

[sandman]

that's hilarious Falcon! i would have thrown up. cross Texiera off my list of likeable yankees. he's a fraud. here's his quote....

?In a perfect world, the Orioles would?ve won the World Series every year I was alive and I?d be an Oriole right now,? Teixeira said. ?I have so much love for this city, this organization. But in the business world, in the baseball world, sometimes you have to make difficult decisions. When it came down to it, the Yankees were a better fit for me." 

anyone notice Rollins throw the ball into the stands to a yankees fan last night? nice change from the d-bag move Swisher and cabrera pull where they pump fake a throw.

i wonder if Matsui was pissed they gave him a Ford?

[Falcon]

Catching some of the national stuff today - Patrick, Rome, Around The Horn etc..

Hearing WAY too much about the Bombers "buying" this championship, gimme a break.

So many better storylines than this to latch onto, we all know them.

I suppose they "bought" the last nine years of non championship seasons??

The best team won, end of story..

[tim_m]

Catching some of the national stuff today - Patrick, Rome, Around The Horn etc..

Hearing WAY too much about the Bombers "buying" this championship, gimme a break.

So many better storylines than this to latch onto, we all know them.

I suppose they "bought" the last nine years of non championship seasons??

The best team won, end of story..

I'm so sick of that argument. Its like its our fault that we live in the biggest market and have owners that have the money to put into the team and actually do it. If other owners did that instead of pocketing the money maybe they'd have better teams. Money doesn't equal winning.

[tim_m]

Girardi stops to help after Series win
ESPN.com news services

2009 MLB Playoffs

Want an in-depth look at the World Series? Check out all the stats, analysis and opinion here:
? World Series page

Hours after guiding the New York Yankees to a World Series championship, manager Joe Girardi stopped along a suburban parkway on his way home to help a woman whose car had crashed into a wall, The (Westchester) Journal News reported.

Early Thursday morning, Westchester County police officer Kathleen Cristiano congratulated Girardi on the World Series win as he passed through a drunken-driving enforcement checkpoint, according to the newspaper. Yankees left-hander Andy Pettitte, who had started in the Series clincher, had passed through the same checkpoint earlier, she said.

About 15 minutes later, Cristiano was among the first responders to a one-car accident on the Cross County Parkway in Eastchester. She was surprised to again see Girardi, this time trying to flag down assistance, according to the report.

    ?

    The guy wins the World Series, what does he do? He stops to help. It was totally surreal.
    ? -- Westchester officer Kathleen Cristiano

"The guy wins the World Series, what does he do? He stops to help," said Cristiano, according to The Journal News. "It was totally surreal."

Girardi told WFAN-AM that he was "really concerned" because of damage to the car. He says he had his wife call 911 and then approached the mangled vehicle.

The driver of the car in the accident, 27-year-old Marie Henry of Stratford, Conn., was able to get out of the car by the time police arrived, and she was shaken but unhurt, according to the report.

Girardi, dressed in a T-shirt and jeans, then told them he "had to get going," according to the newspaper.

"The driver didn't know it was him until after I told her," Cristiano told The Journal News.

In stopping to help, Girardi took a risk by running across the eastbound lanes of the parkway near a notorious blind curve, county Sgt. Thomas McGurn said, according to the report.

"He could have gotten killed," McGurn said, according to the report. "Traffic goes by at 80 mph."

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

[GeorgeSteele]

Like any player attaining a sufficient volume of post-season at-bats, A-Rod's post-season numbers are right on par with his regular season numbers (OPS is about the same, around .970 or so, which is outstanding).

By the same token, Pettite is not particularly clutch in the post-season; his playoff and and regular season ERAs are almost identical (around 3.90).  He's simply a very good pitcher who is remarkably consistent. 

I think many people would debate you on that about Pettitte after what he did this postseason.

Not saying he doesn't pitch well in the postseason, he clearly does.  But if "clutch" means he performs better than normal in the playoffs, the numbers don't reflect that.  For his career, he's pitched as well in the playoffs as he has in the regular season.  And A-Rod has hit as well in the postseason as he has in the regular season.  But the media has has doled out their labels and I guess that's that.

[faldor]

As much as it pains me, as a Red Sox fan.  Congrats to the Yankees and their fans.  I tried all year (as I do every year) to downplay how good the Yankees were.  I tried my best to point out their faults.  Their pitching wasn't good enough.  Their relief outside of Mariano wasn't good.  Their lineup would wilt in the post-season when they faced better pitching.  I tried to convince myself these things were true.  But truth be told, the Yankees were by far the best team in baseball this year.  The best team doesn't always win the World Series.  Oftentimes it's the team that gets hot at the right time.  But this year, the best team truly did win.  And they were the best team by a good margin, even though both the World Series and ALCS went 6 games.  Those series just seemed closer than they actually were.  The Yanks were never really in danger.  I actually thought the Angels gave the Yanks a little better fight.  If it weren't for some fielding blunders they could've put a bit of a scare into the Bombers.  Both the Angels and Phillies bullpens were lacking and the Phillies just didn't have the pitching to hold down the Yankee offense.  God bless Pedro, and he pitched real well in game 2.  But when you're relying on him and his 85 mph fastball at this stage in his career with your season on the line, you are in trouble.  And who the hell knows what they would've done in game 7.  You can't win the World Series with one reliable pitcher.

As for A-Rod, you can't really knock him for his lack of production in October anymore.  He got it done this year.  And he now has a ring.  So even if he goes 0 for the rest of his post-season career, you can't take that ring away from him.  The Yankees are gonna be on the warpath next season to defend their title.  I look forward to seeing the Red Sox (or ANY team) knock them off.  

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Spring training is only a few months away.

Let's go Royals!

[faldor]

One more thing.  Is it crazy to say that I think Rivera may in fact be the best PITCHER of all time.  It's insane what he's been able to do for the last 11 years or whatever as a closer.  Closers usually have a shelf life of 5-7 years and then they see a dropoff, sometimes so dramatic that they're forced to retire.  He's been at the top of his game every season and shows no signs of slowing down.  He's been the one constant in the Yankee bullpen through their run and gives them so much stability at the end of games.  He can get 2 inning saves with more ease than most closers can get one out.  And he's done it all with ONE pitch.  How good is that one pitch that nobody's been able to figure it out after all these years?  It's just utterly ridiculous how good he is.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

He's got two.

Fastball
Cutter

[GypsySoul]

I know for a fact this guy's tee says "MATSUI 55" on the back (much to the drummer's chagrin) 

[tim_m]

One more thing.  Is it crazy to say that I think Rivera may in fact be the best PITCHER of all time.  It's insane what he's been able to do for the last 11 years or whatever as a closer.  Closers usually have a shelf life of 5-7 years and then they see a dropoff, sometimes so dramatic that they're forced to retire.  He's been at the top of his game every season and shows no signs of slowing down.  He's been the one constant in the Yankee bullpen through their run and gives them so much stability at the end of games.  He can get 2 inning saves with more ease than most closers can get one out.  And he's done it all with ONE pitch.  How good is that one pitch that nobody's been able to figure it out after all these years?  It's just utterly ridiculous how good he is.

No its not crazy at all. The way he has been able to do it with pretty much just the cutter for all these years is incredible. He's been doing it now for 14 yrs now. Since 97. The scary thing is he seems to be getting BETTER with age. I mean he turns 40 this month. He won this one in pain. He said his ribs were hurting him last night and the phils still never had a chance against him. Is he the greatest pitcher all time? I don't know but he surely is the greatest reliver/closer ever. Nobody and i mean nobody will ever touch his postseason stats EVER. He is by far a sure first ballot entry in to the HOF. If he does not get every single 1st place vote the ones who do not give him the vote should have the voting right revoked for stupidity. There is no way this guy should not get 100% of the vote. I'm not sure if anyone has ever gotten every single vote but this guy deserves it. I dread so much the day he hangs it up.

[Mal Brossard]

1. I don't have a link to show the video where he was backing away before the ball hit, as it was part of the pregame montage on Fox before the game started.  Watching it, it was pretty clear he was trying to pull the bat back before he was hit though.  This is as a disinterested observer, for the record.  As an Indians fan, I want to see both teams choke and die.

2. Pettitte a HOF'er?  Yes and no.  He will get in eventually because of Yankee bias.  Phil Rizzuto got in because of it, Joe DiMaggio once got the title of "Greatest Living Ballplayer" because of it, Joe Gordon won the 1942 MVP  because of it... I could go on.  Looking at baseball-reference's similarity scores, Pettitte's career numbers are most similar to those of Dwight Gooden (90.3% similarity), Bob Welch, Kevin Brown, Jimmy Key, Dave McNally, Dazzy Vance, Frank Viola, Orel Hershizer, Jack Stivetts, and Kevin Appier (86.7% similarity).  Only one HOF'er in that group: Vance.  Pettitte's playoff moments will boost him up, but his playoff numbers overall (40-40 record, 3.90 ERA, 5.9 K/9) aren't exactly impressive.  If I had a vote, he wouldn't get it.  Neither would Curt Schilling.

3. Count me as one asking if the Yankees would like a receipt for their championship, but I don't blame them for doing it.  While having and spending money doesn't guarantee championships, it certainly makes it a whole hell of a lot easier.  Look around baseball for the past 10-20 years.  How many teams that weren't in the top half of payrolls in a season have won a World Series?  2003 Florida Marlins.  The last team before that was the 1991 Minnesota Twins, a year where the gap between the highest payroll and lowest payroll was only $22 million, and the highest was only three times the size of the lowest.  The current gap is $165 million and the largest is approximately five and a half times the smallest.  The disparity between the highest and tenth-highest is two to one whereas in 1991 it was $33M vs. $26M.  Like I said, I don't blame the Yankees for spending it at all.  I blame the system for allowing it to happen and setting small market teams up for failure.  For as long as baseball remains without a real, legitimate salary cap and revenue sharing system instead of this weak-ass luxury tax, we'll continue seeing the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers, Mets, and other larger markets at the top while the Indians, Rangers, Pirates, Orioles, and others will have to hope they get lucky in their drafting and development.  Every other major team sport has some form of cap that helps to even the playing field regardless of market size.  Why not baseball?

4. A-Rod as a playoff choker.  A-Rod has played in 11 playoff series where he has had at least 12 plate appearances.  In those 11 series, he has hit over .300 in 6 of them, just over half.  Before this season, he had done it in 4 of 8, exactly half.  He has had a sub-.800 OPS in two playoff series ever.  It's not just about getting the bat on the ball.  Baseball is a game of moving around bases, and he's done that, hitting well or not.  The playoff choker label is undeserved.  This year may be "vindication" for him, but shouldn't be.  99.9% of that tag is because of a New York media filled with unrealistic and sometimes downright ridiculous expectations.

5. Matsui is one of the few Yankees I actually like for the most part.  If a Yankee had to get the MVP, I'm glad it was him.

6. Anyone notice they always interviewed Girardi in the dugout during the game, but never Charlie Manuel?  I know Manuel no longer has Jim Thome around to translate for him, but still, why not talk to him at least once?

7. Rivera as greatest pitcher ever?  No way.  Closers don't exactly have a short shelf life.  Lee Smith did it for 14 years.  Trevor Hoffman for 15.  John Franco for 14.  Even the non-elite get a good 7-10 years (Bob Wickman, Rod Beck, Tom Henke, Ugueth Urbina). I could go on.  Plus closers 15+ years ago were used much differently than they are now.  In Bobby Thigpen's old record season of 57 saves, he averaged more than an inning per appearance, including nine appearances of 2 innings or more, two of which were three-inning appearances.  Closers these days don't do that; it's considered a heavy workload when a guy like Rivera or Jon Papelsmear goes two innings.  Plus, a lot of closers are one-trick ponies.  Most rely on one to two pitches and just overpower hitters.  If they had to face a lineup two to three times like a starter, they would get shelled in the middle innings.  To me, great pitchers have a wide arsenal that they can choose from and use it effectively.  They keep batters guessing rather than straight-up overpower them.  He'll be a first ballot HOF'er, but I wouldn't say he'll get 100% of the vote.  The HOF has been ridiculously tough on voting in closers in the past, though I'd be surprised at less than 90%.

[tim_m]

1. I don't have a link to show the video where he was backing away before the ball hit, as it was part of the pregame montage on Fox before the game started.  Watching it, it was pretty clear he was trying to pull the bat back before he was hit though.  This is as a disinterested observer, for the record.  As an Indians fan, I want to see both teams choke and die.

2. Pettitte a HOF'er?  Yes and no.  He will get in eventually because of Yankee bias.  Phil Rizzuto got in because of it, Joe DiMaggio once got the title of "Greatest Living Ballplayer" because of it, Joe Gordon won the 1942 MVP  because of it... I could go on.  Looking at baseball-reference's similarity scores, Pettitte's career numbers are most similar to those of Dwight Gooden (90.3% similarity), Bob Welch, Kevin Brown, Jimmy Key, Dave McNally, Dazzy Vance, Frank Viola, Orel Hershizer, Jack Stivetts, and Kevin Appier (86.7% similarity).  Only one HOF'er in that group: Vance.  Pettitte's playoff moments will boost him up, but his playoff numbers overall (40-40 record, 3.90 ERA, 5.9 K/9) aren't exactly impressive.  If I had a vote, he wouldn't get it.  Neither would Curt Schilling.

3. Count me as one asking if the Yankees would like a receipt for their championship, but I don't blame them for doing it.  While having and spending money doesn't guarantee championships, it certainly makes it a whole hell of a lot easier.  Look around baseball for the past 10-20 years.  How many teams that weren't in the top half of payrolls in a season have won a World Series?  2003 Florida Marlins.  The last team before that was the 1991 Minnesota Twins, a year where the gap between the highest payroll and lowest payroll was only $22 million, and the highest was only three times the size of the lowest.  The current gap is $165 million and the largest is approximately five and a half times the smallest.  The disparity between the highest and tenth-highest is two to one whereas in 1991 it was $33M vs. $26M.  Like I said, I don't blame the Yankees for spending it at all.  I blame the system for allowing it to happen and setting small market teams up for failure.  For as long as baseball remains without a real, legitimate salary cap and revenue sharing system instead of this weak-ass luxury tax, we'll continue seeing the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers, Mets, and other larger markets at the top while the Indians, Rangers, Pirates, Orioles, and others will have to hope they get lucky in their drafting and development.  Every other major team sport has some form of cap that helps to even the playing field regardless of market size.  Why not baseball?

4. A-Rod as a playoff choker.  A-Rod has played in 11 playoff series where he has had at least 12 plate appearances.  In those 11 series, he has hit over .300 in 6 of them, just over half.  Before this season, he had done it in 4 of 8, exactly half.  He has had a sub-.800 OPS in two playoff series ever.  It's not just about getting the bat on the ball.  Baseball is a game of moving around bases, and he's done that, hitting well or not.  The playoff choker label is undeserved.  This year may be "vindication" for him, but shouldn't be.  99.9% of that tag is because of a New York media filled with unrealistic and sometimes downright ridiculous expectations.

5. Matsui is one of the few Yankees I actually like for the most part.  If a Yankee had to get the MVP, I'm glad it was him.

6. Anyone notice they always interviewed Girardi in the dugout during the game, but never Charlie Manuel?  I know Manuel no longer has Jim Thome around to translate for him, but still, why not talk to him at least once?

7. Rivera as greatest pitcher ever?  No way.  Closers don't exactly have a short shelf life.  Lee Smith did it for 14 years.  Trevor Hoffman for 15.  John Franco for 14.  Even the non-elite get a good 7-10 years (Bob Wickman, Rod Beck, Tom Henke, Ugueth Urbina). I could go on.  Plus closers 15+ years ago were used much differently than they are now.  In Bobby Thigpen's old record season of 57 saves, he averaged more than an inning per appearance, including nine appearances of 2 innings or more, two of which were three-inning appearances.  Closers these days don't do that; it's considered a heavy workload when a guy like Rivera or Jon Papelsmear goes two innings.  Plus, a lot of closers are one-trick ponies.  Most rely on one to two pitches and just overpower hitters.  If they had to face a lineup two to three times like a starter, they would get shelled in the middle innings.  To me, great pitchers have a wide arsenal that they can choose from and use it effectively.  They keep batters guessing rather than straight-up overpower them.  He'll be a first ballot HOF'er, but I wouldn't say he'll get 100% of the vote.  The HOF has been ridiculously tough on voting in closers in the past, though I'd be surprised at less than 90%.

If Pettitte stays around a few more years he'll get the yankee record for most wins. I think that would increase his chances as well. As would more playoff success.

Its nice to hear someone say that about A-Rod. Its really been unfair to call him a choker. He had a few bad years in the playoffs but overall he has been good and this year was stellar.

I was glad Matsui won it too. First full time DH first Japanese player to win it. It was well deserved. HE beat the Phillies last night. I hope that wasn't his last game as a yankee but i fear that it is.

I wondered that as well about Manuel. Why did they not once talk to him?