2009 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[faldor]

Interesting statistic:
BEFORE the Phillies decided to make A-rod their personal "toss across" target:

0-8 with 6k's.

AFTER the Phillies decided to start plunking him like he was a dunk tank target:

2-6, with a HR and a double.....with a .555 OB%.  And those two hits?  Both clutch, game changing affairs.

Not sure if this is what you're implying, but I don't think they were throwing at A-Rod intentionally.  You just don't do that in the World Series.  What purpose does that serve?  You save that stuff for the regular season.  And as you pointed out, why would you throw at someone who's 0-8 with 6 K's?  Doesn't make any sense.  Simply pitching inside, which you need to do to be successful against guys like A-Rod.  Maybe the balls ran a little too far inside.  And it's not like any of the pitches were in dangerous territory either.  No headhunting going on. 

[Loaded NightraiN]

Not sure if this is what you're implying, but I don't think they were throwing at A-Rod intentionally.  You just don't do that in the World Series.  What purpose does that serve?  You save that stuff for the regular season.  And as you pointed out, why would you throw at someone who's 0-8 with 6 K's?  Doesn't make any sense.  Simply pitching inside, which you need to do to be successful against guys like A-Rod.  Maybe the balls ran a little too far inside.  And it's not like any of the pitches were in dangerous territory either.  No headhunting going on. 

As hard as I find it to believe as well, 3 times in 2 games is way to suspicous... They figure rather than intentionally walk him, hit him.... Then hope the yankees starter retailates and gets tossed...

I could be clueless though lol

[pilferk]

Not sure if this is what you're implying, but I don't think they were throwing at A-Rod intentionally.  You just don't do that in the World Series.  What purpose does that serve?  You save that stuff for the regular season.  And as you pointed out, why would you throw at someone who's 0-8 with 6 K's?  Doesn't make any sense.  Simply pitching inside, which you need to do to be successful against guys like A-Rod.  Maybe the balls ran a little too far inside.  And it's not like any of the pitches were in dangerous territory either.  No headhunting going on. 

I wasn't  really implying anything.  The facts are the facts:  Before they started hitting him, constantly.....0-8, 6k's.  Once they started plunking him with regularity (whatever the reasoning or intent), a .333 BA, with a HR and a double...both in big spots...and a .555 OB%.

They seemed to have woke him up and pissed him off a little bit.  And they seemed to have taken a guy who was a non-factor in the first two games and turned him into one the last 2.  100% them?  No, you have to give it up for A-rods ability, too.  But...and A-rod said it himself...those plunkings on Saturday sort of "woke him up".  Since then, even his outs have been loud, hard hit balls.  I don't think he's struck out since then.


On your comments about the plunkings:
I have no problem with them going inside on A-rod.  But if these guys, over the coarse of 9 at bats, miss enough to hit him 3 times...I don't care what their intent is, they're walking a fine and dangerous line.  And if you go the "there couldn't be any intent" route (and I'm not sure I agree 100%), then you have to believe the Phillies pitchers just flat out have zero control of their inside pitches (which, oddly, doesn't seem to manifest against anyone else).  

As for reasoning...there's plenty of it without a whole lot of analysis:

1) You think A-rod is a bit wimpy and will be intimidated.  Don't laugh....it's been floated, and tried, before.  The difference is that this season A-rod has not been the A-rod of old.  Look at him stare down Lidge in the top of the 9th last night.  I've NEVER seen A-rod do that before.  Maybe he has, but I've never seen it.....and I've seen A-rod do a LOT of hitting.

2)  You want to send a message to the Yanks about your willingness to pitch inside, and loudly.

3) Last night...you do the obvious and plunk him early to get the dual warnings so you can take away the inside FROM CC.  Again, don't laugh.  Sterling brought it up last night during the Yanks radio broadcast, and I've heard at least 4 other analysts/commentators postulate the same theory.  The double benefit from doing it?  You set up the double play ball.

There's strategic reasoning to hit him....of that you can have no doubt.  I don't think it was personal....I'll agree with that.  But that pitch last night....hitting him square in the back...other than the Fox announcers (who are horrible), I've not seen many actually think that was an "accident".  Tex getting hit by Lidge in the 9th?  Sure.  But I have a hard time buying that big league, professional, QUALITY pitchers make that same mistake 1/3 of the time to the same batter.  Yes, sometimes coincidence is coincidence....and maybe here it is...but it certainly looks (and the Yanks are going to look at it this way, too...I promise you) like they're gunning for him.

[Falcon]

3 times in 2 games is a bit suspect although personally I don't think there was intent.  

That's just bad baseball and the Phils just seem too professional for that..

Looked to me they were just following the "bust him inside" book and got too far in, poor control at worst.

Either way, two big hits ensued - no changing that.

He's also 2-14 - no changing that.

[pilferk]

3 times in 2 games is a bit suspect although personally I don't think there was intent.  

That's just bad baseball and the Phils just seem too professional for that..

Looked to me they were just following the "bust him inside" book and got too far in, poor control at worst.

Then they should stop because they're bad at it and they're going to get somebody hurt. 

You give them credit for professionalism....I give them credit for skill in their craft.  I find it suspicious, at BEST, that 3 times, in 9 at bats, the pitcher "let one get away" given their skill level.  These are GOOD pitchers who do NOT have a rep for being wild.  Just seems a little too convenient....which, true, is cicrcumstantial evidence at best.

But I have no doubt (because I've seen it before) that if it were Howard getting plunked, or Youk on the Red Sox, by Yanks pitchers.....the perception would be quite a bit different.

Either way, two big hits ensued - no changing that.

He's also 2-14 - no changing that.

I agree, the .154 average isn't great...but the splits are interesting when you're looking at such a small sample (4 game).  You watch A-rods at bats from the first 2 games, and the at bats the 2nd two games.  COMPLETELY different guy at the plate, both in his approach and in his look.

[pilferk]

Apparently, some of the Yanks players think it's intentional:

From FoxSports.com http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10309398/A-Rod%27s-dream-postseason-has-Yanks-a-win-away :

"Afterward, Rodriguez said he did not want to comment about getting hit for the third time in two games. But several of his teammates, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the Phillies were going after A-Rod intentionally.

'No question,' one Yankee said. 'It's blatant.'

'Our whole team thinks they were throwing at A-Rod,' another Yankee said.

In fact, according to a third Yankees' player, someone in the dugout even predicted that Phillies right-hander Joe Blanton would hit Rodriguez with one out and Damon on third in the first.

The player who heard the remark ? 'You watch, they're going to hit him' ? didn't believe it, thinking the same thing that manager Joe Girardi would tell reporters in the interview room later.

'It's pretty hard to hit people intentionally when there are runners in scoring position,' Girardi said.

Well, Blanton did hit Rodriguez. With his first pitch.

Rodriguez paused and looked into the Yankees' dugout. He appeared to tell plate umpire Mike Everitt, 'That's the third time. It's obvious,' on the FOX replays."

[Falcon]

I don't think they'll stop pitching him in but I do agree they should do a better job of it.

If I'm the Yanks, (depending on the situation) Utley or Howard gets at least brushed back tonight.

[pilferk]

I don't think they'll stop pitching him in but I do agree they should do a better job of it.

If I'm the Yanks, (depending on the situation) Utley or Howard gets at least brushed back tonight.

I'm not sure.  It's a potential clinching WS game against a pitcher likely to keep baserunners to a minimum (so the Yanks need to do the same)...I think the Yanks may file this one in their backpocket and claim their receipt either in spring training or next season (and you know we'll see a Yanks/Phillies interleague series next year).

If they DO go for a little diamond justice...I'm not sure it will be Utley or Howard.  I agree, they're the most likely candidates..but not the only ones.  AJ may take a buzz (and I don't mean at his head) at Lee, depending on the situation.    That might get the point across a little stronger.

[Loaded NightraiN]

Apparently, some of the Yanks players think it's intentional:

From FoxSports.com http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10309398/A-Rod%27s-dream-postseason-has-Yanks-a-win-away :

"Afterward, Rodriguez said he did not want to comment about getting hit for the third time in two games. But several of his teammates, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the Phillies were going after A-Rod intentionally.

'No question,' one Yankee said. 'It's blatant.'

'Our whole team thinks they were throwing at A-Rod,' another Yankee said.

In fact, according to a third Yankees' player, someone in the dugout even predicted that Phillies right-hander Joe Blanton would hit Rodriguez with one out and Damon on third in the first.

The player who heard the remark — 'You watch, they're going to hit him' — didn't believe it, thinking the same thing that manager Joe Girardi would tell reporters in the interview room later.

'It's pretty hard to hit people intentionally when there are runners in scoring position,' Girardi said.

Well, Blanton did hit Rodriguez. With his first pitch.

Rodriguez paused and looked into the Yankees' dugout. He appeared to tell plate umpire Mike Everitt, 'That's the third time. It's obvious,' on the FOX replays."

Seems like the locker room is accepting a-rod... Dont know if the rumors a while ago (about them not having his back) were true or not, but now its clear they are behind him

If I'm the Yanks, (depending on the situation) Utley or Howard gets at least brushed back tonight.

Nah, dont play their game... No reason to give them fuel... Hold up the championship on their home turf, that would be the sweetest revenge!

[Falcon]

Retaliation is probably best served for spring training or next year although I don't think "one getting away" is out of the realm - a compelling storyline nonetheless.

With no vested interest in either team, announcing (for me) has been fine other than a few of McCarver's usual statements of the obvious..

[pilferk]

Retaliation is probably best served for spring training or next year although I don't think "one getting away" is out of the realm - a compelling storyline nonetheless.

With no vested interest in either team, announcing (for me) has been fine other than a few of McCarver's usual statements of the obvious..

The issue is...as analysts, they stink.

The A-rod plunking last night was a good example (but not the only one):  McCarver insisted it could not be intentional.  He couldn't think of a single reason it was intentional..no way, no how.

Sterling the Yanks radio guy,, at the exact same moment came up with 3 possibilities as to why it WAS intentional. Took him about 30 seconds to come up with logical, well-reasoned, and strategic thinking as to why it could be intentional.  Clearly said he didn't know for sure, couldn't get inside the Philly pitcher's head...but that it could sure be interpreted that way.

The MLB network analsyts, about 3 min later, cut in with a WS update, showed the at bat, and proposed 2 OTHER reasons why it was intentional, and thought it was pretty obvious.

During an MLB update during College Football, about 10 minutes later, on ESPN, the ESPN analysts showed the plunking and THEY went over their reasoning why they thought it was intentional.

I've seen at least 5 articles today, and heard 3 different sports radio shows...they all had varying reasoning, but all thought it likely was intentional.

Similar thing happened with the A-rod home run off the camera in game 3.  McCarver blasted the call, said they didn't spend enough time with reviewing to have been able to make the call..and then questioned multiple times if the ball was out, would have been out, and why hitting the camera would be a home run.

During the AL game, McCarver actually insisted that Orlando Cabrerra had played for, and won a world series with, the Yankees.

The man is an idiot.  He's wrong so frequently it makes me grind my teeth. His "color commentary" is either innane an laced with the obvious (which you point out), flat out WRONG, or just plain biased (or a combination of any/all of the above).

Buck is less obtrusive, but continually makes bad mistakes on his play by play calling.  He's OK on anything routine, but the minute it gets complicated...he completely loses his words (witness the Damon play last night where he seemed downright confused).  And he, far too often, plays lackey to McCarver.  Maybe it's a respect for your elders kinda thing...but it grates on me, too.  And, lest you think it's just the fact I think they're anti-Yankee (and I do)....I feel the same way whenever I watch a Saturday Fox game of the week, no matter who's playing.  They're HORRIBLE, IMHO.  Dodgers/Cards or Yankees/Red Sox....I wanna strangle them, both.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

RoboBuck.

Jeter.  Base hit.

Lee, inning over.

Ted Williams.  Hitter extraordinaire.

(Final out of the World Series.)

The Yankees win the World Series.

Silence..........

[freedom78]

The man is an idiot.  He's wrong so frequently it makes me grind my teeth. His "color commentary" is either innane an laced with the obvious (which you point out), flat out WRONG, or just plain biased (or a combination of any/all of the above).

He's the John Madden of MLB, sans the Frank Caliendo impressions and Turducken.     

Buck is less obtrusive, but continually makes bad mistakes on his play by play calling.  He's OK on anything routine, but the minute it gets complicated...he completely loses his words (witness the Damon play last night where he seemed downright confused).  And he, far too often, plays lackey to McCarver.  Maybe it's a respect for your elders kinda thing...but it grates on me, too.  And, lest you think it's just the fact I think they're anti-Yankee (and I do)....I feel the same way whenever I watch a Saturday Fox game of the week, no matter who's playing.  They're HORRIBLE, IMHO.  Dodgers/Cards or Yankees/Red Sox....I wanna strangle them, both.

Nepotism is rarely a good thing.  And it wouldn't bother me nearly as much if the Aholes at Fox didn't put him on both MLB and NFL coverage.  Why not add him to NBA games as well?  It can't possibly hurt his reputation with the sports watching public if he is proven to know nothing about yet another sport.

[GeorgeSteele]

Newspaper apologizes for incorrect ad

Associated Press

PHILADELPHIA -- A Philadelphia newspaper has apologized to readers for mistakenly running an ad congratulating the Philadelphia Phillies on winning back-to-back World Series titles.

The New York Yankees held a commanding 3-1 lead in the championship as of Monday, the day the ad was printed in the Philadelphia Inquirer.

The three-quarter-page Macy's ad is on the back of the front section and features a T-shirt with the Phillies logo, the commissioner's trophy and the phrase "Back To Back World Series Champions."

The Inquirer released a message to readers saying the paper deeply regrets the error.

[cotis]

Newspaper apologizes for incorrect ad

Associated Press

PHILADELPHIA -- A Philadelphia newspaper has apologized to readers for mistakenly running an ad congratulating the Philadelphia Phillies on winning back-to-back World Series titles.

The New York Yankees held a commanding 3-1 lead in the championship as of Monday, the day the ad was printed in the Philadelphia Inquirer.

The three-quarter-page Macy's ad is on the back of the front section and features a T-shirt with the Phillies logo, the commissioner's trophy and the phrase "Back To Back World Series Champions."

The Inquirer released a message to readers saying the paper deeply regrets the error.

Jinxed themselves!

[pilferk]

He's the John Madden of MLB, sans the Frank Caliendo impressions and Turducken.     

Madden's at least good for entertainment value.  I don't find McCarver entertaining outside of an old episode of "this week in baseball".

[tim_m]

The Phillies are in BIG trouble. If the yanks end this tomorrow my pick for mvp is Damon. Anyone else agree?

Lee's going to make it a VERY tough out.  Here's hoping Burnett, on short rest, is up to the task.

My pick for MVP?  Mo.  Johnny's been very good in this series, and that play last night (from the at bat right up through stealing 2nd and 3rd) was the lynchpin for everything that followed.  No doubt about it.

But Mo?  So far he's factored in HUGE in all 3 Yanks wins.  A 6 out save, a 5 pitch, 2 out unofficial save, and an 8 pitch, 3 out save last night.

What about Jeter? He's had a great series too. I think it will be Mo, Damon or Jeter. You might even be able to make a case for Burnett too if he closes this thing out on short rest tonight.

[GeorgeSteele]

McCarver annoyed me with his analysis of Hamels' struggles.  Leading into the game, he spoke of Hamels' abandonment of his breaking pitches and how he can't rely on just fastball/changeup.  So Hamels pitched effectively for 4 innings with just the fastball/changeup mix, starts throwing the curve in the 5th and the shit hits the fan.  Then, incredibly, McCarver makes an about-face and criticizes him for it!  In particular expressing exasperation at Hamels for throwing his "3rd best pitch to the pitcher".  Take note, Hamels -- next time, throw your weaker pitches to A-Rod and Texeira.  

As for A-Rod, I don't think there's a cause/effect connection between his performance vis-a-vis before and after getting plunked 3 times.  It's simply that Lee and Pedro were much more difficult for A-Rod to hit than the Phillies' Games 3/4 pitchers.  I'm expecting that he'll be 0-for-Lee tonight.   The better pitchers know how to pitch inside effectively, while mediocre ones think if you hit a guy, he'll be "scared" at the plate next time.  

 

[tim_m]

Retaliation is probably best served for spring training or next year although I don't think "one getting away" is out of the realm - a compelling storyline nonetheless.

With no vested interest in either team, announcing (for me) has been fine other than a few of McCarver's usual statements of the obvious..

His captain obvious statements make me wanna reach through the tv and slap him.

[Mal Brossard]

McCarver is anti-Yankee?  Seriously, you have got to be kidding.  Frankly I find him to be a lot more balanced this season instead of his constant Yankee knob gobbling that we got from him up until the past season or two.

His Captain Obvious imitations make me want to kick my TV though.  Anyone remember his comments in the 2004 ALCS in Game 1 (or it may have been Game 2)?  After a Red Sox pitcher was called for a balk because he stepped off the mound and then threw home, later in the game a Yankees pitcher stepped off and looked a runner back.

McCarver said, knowingly: "You see, that's the difference between stepping off and throwing home, and stepping off and not throwing home."

A few more...

"Brandon Arroyo will start game two versus Pedro Martinez."

"Batters have a hard time hitting knuckleballs, catchers have a hard time catching knuckleballs and batters have a hard time bunting Rivera."

"Marquis Grissom was born the 14th of 15th children. He bats second in the Braves lineup, a spot known as the table setter. That's ironic because I'm sure he was setting the table quite a bit as a child."

"If you leadoff and you play every day, you're guaranteed to bat with the bases empty at least 162 times."

"Roy Oswalt is a drop and drive pitcher. What is a drop and drive pitcher? He is a guy who drops and drives. Very simple."

"Watch Darren Daulton use his mitt like a glove."

"There is a world of difference between a count of one ball and two strikes is a lot different situation than hitting with two strikes and one ball."

"The reason we call that pitch up and in is because the arms are attached to the shoulder."

"At the risk of sounding gaga over Jeter, he's hip too. He's hip. If I may use that young phrase, he's one of the hippest players in the big leagues."

"With Guererro, it's not as much a strike ZONE as it is a strike AREA."

"Bobby Abreu is so good because he has the lightest grip with his left hand in the league. He grips the bat like a pianist." (This was extra funny because many people mis-heard him and thought he said penis instead of pianist)