2009 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[Malcolm]

Yankees look unstoppable...great baseball going on...

[Falcon]

On C.C., I think if they're up 3-0, the still pitch him on 3 days rest.  Why, you ask?  Because I think they've learned, from '04, what NOT to do when up 3-0.  Can't take your foot off the gas or off the other teams jugular.

No doubt about it, keep the hammer down and bury 'em - take no chances.

Great game last night, let's hope for more of the same in Philly today.

[cotis]

What a freaking game.

Announcers sucked, I agree.

A-rod, once again, super clutch.

On C.C., I think if they're up 3-0, the still pitch him on 3 days rest.  Why, you ask?  Because I think they've learned, from '04, what NOT to do when up 3-0.  Can't take your foot off the gas or off the other teams jugular.

Not to mention he'll have some time to recover while the NLCS is still going on.

[tim_m]

All good points on CC. I was just thinking maybe start Gaudin if we're up 3-0 and go to then pen first sign of trouble. I'm thinking this only if we're up 3-0 though. If Pettitte loses game 3. CC is a no brainer for game 4.

[Falcon]

The atmosphere in Philly looks electric, a quick lead for Lee - look out.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

[sandman]

big win for the phils. and although it must have been boring for the rest of the country, i'll take the no-stress W after the games 1 and 2 nailbiters!

Howard set another MLB record with 7 consecutive playoff games with an RBI in the same year. Lou Gehrig holds the record with 8 consecutive playoff games with an RBI (over the course of 5 years - 1928 - 1932).

Lee looked great again. just how bad is the phils bullpen? Lee batted in the 9th (and singled) and was set to come in to finish the game. then victorino hits the 3-run shot and Manuel tells Lee he's done for the night. so basically they were comfortable going to the pen with an 11-run lead, but NOT an 8-run lead. 
 

[Falcon]

Lee looked great again. just how bad is the phils bullpen? Lee batted in the 9th (and singled) and was set to come in to finish the game. then victorino hits the 3-run shot and Manuel tells Lee he's done for the night. so basically they were comfortable going to the pen with an 11-run lead, but NOT an 8-run lead. 
 

Lee was outstanding, that guy impresses me more every outing - he's an absolute pleasure to watch pitch.

The same thought crossed my mind about the pen, cool 11 up and NOT 8! 

I expect the Dodgers to come back strong tonight, they just don't seem like the kind of team
to lay down and die - even after the old fashioned whoopin' like last night.

As for the Yanks/Angels, I look for the Bombers to continue on their collision course with #27
and take care of biz in Anaheim is short order.

[pilferk]

As for the Yanks/Angels, I look for the Bombers to continue on their collision course with #27
and take care of biz in Anaheim is short order.

From your mouth to the baseball gods ears.

I suspect that, if the Angels are going to win a game, it will be today's.  Although we've got decent numbers against Weaver, I just can't see the Yanks putting up 3 straight against a team like the Angels.  I'll be (quite happily) surprised if the Yanks manage to take today's game.

[GypsySoul]

I know it's easy to second-guess but, IMO, that game was lost when Girardi took Damon out. 



P.S.  when did Jack Nicholson become such a pussy?
Are Angels fans really that stupid that they wouldn't notice the red, white and blue Yankees logo on the red cap?
 
 

[cotis]

As for the Yanks/Angels, I look for the Bombers to continue on their collision course with #27
and take care of biz in Anaheim is short order.

From your mouth to the baseball gods ears.

I suspect that, if the Angels are going to win a game, it will be today's.  Although we've got decent numbers against Weaver, I just can't see the Yanks putting up 3 straight against a team like the Angels.  I'll be (quite happily) surprised if the Yanks manage to take today's game.

Are YOU a baseball god?

I was talking to someone about this exact subject this morning. If the Yankees swept the Angels this round -- it would be unreal and no stopping them. I just realistically couldn't see them doing it because of the Angels being such a good team.

I just got home from work and haven't heard anything -- CC still on the hill tomorrow?

[tim_m]

As for the Yanks/Angels, I look for the Bombers to continue on their collision course with #27
and take care of biz in Anaheim is short order.

From your mouth to the baseball gods ears.

I suspect that, if the Angels are going to win a game, it will be today's.  Although we've got decent numbers against Weaver, I just can't see the Yanks putting up 3 straight against a team like the Angels.  I'll be (quite happily) surprised if the Yanks manage to take today's game.

Are YOU a baseball god?

I was talking to someone about this exact subject this morning. If the Yankees swept the Angels this round -- it would be unreal and no stopping them. I just realistically couldn't see them doing it because of the Angels being such a good team.

I just got home from work and haven't heard anything -- CC still on the hill tomorrow?

Yes, Girardi said CC will go tomorrow regardless of today's outcome.

[MR.BROWNSTONE]

The Phillies had a great come from behind win tonight. I wanted the Dodgers and Yankees in the WS this year.

[pilferk]

I know it's easy to second-guess but, IMO, that game was lost when Girardi took Damon out. 



P.S.  when did Jack Nicholson become such a pussy?
Are Angels fans really that stupid that they wouldn't notice the red, white and blue Yankees logo on the red cap?
 
 

You GOTTA take Damon out.  It KILLS you offensively (double, actually...by losing Damon's bat AND your DH spot, which handcuffs you pitching-wise), but in the situation they were in, you need an arm in the outfield to TRY to make a play if anything goes out there. Yes, Mo gives up very few left field fly balls.  Yes, in all liklihood (and in hindsight) it would probably not be necessary.  It very well may have lost them the game..you're right..but you gotta do it anyway.  Because if he DOESN'T do it, and they DO get a fly ball to shallow left...they lose anyway.

REALLY what killed the Yanks yesterday was their bottom 3rd: Cano, Swish, and Melky.  There were 3 or 4 times, at least, where they came to the plate with runners in scoring position, many times with zero or one out, and they couldn't get the job done.  Those wasted opportunities REALLY hurt.  You just can't leave those opportunities on base against a team like the Angels.

Pettite should have been pulled RIGHT before he gave up the 2nd HR, too.  That's not hindsight, either.  I turned to my wife RIGHT before the at bat and said "Andy's done..they need to pull him".  He was getting hit too hard and losing his location.  Joe shoulda known.

And, ultimately, I think Joe made a mistake by pulling Robertson.  He defends the move, up and down, by saying the numbers were on his side.  And they probably were.  But Robertson has been pitching MUCH better of late than Aceves has.  Monday (Tuesday, in this case) morning quarterbacking, for sure, but I think I woulda taken my chances with Robertson.

I DO think that Girardi had a lot to do with their loss, yesterday.  Not everything..so I won't put it all on his shoulders.  But yesterday, where everything was so equal, those little things cost them.

Still, there were some good things for the Yanks:  They played tough, had some really good at bats vs Weaver, and were in it the whole time.  By and large (with the obvious exceptions) the pitching was solid.  Defense was solid.  Nothing that makes you worry too much.  But today's game is HUGE.  Now I'm really glad CC is on the hill....so long as we get "100% CC" and not "short rest/tired CC".  I like our chances vs Kazmir.  Here's hoping.

[pilferk]

The Phillies had a great come from behind win tonight. I wanted the Dodgers and Yankees in the WS this year.

Right now, it's looking like the Phillies vs somebody.

[Falcon]

Damon absolutely HAS to come out, Girardi made the best decision at the time to try and extend the game.

Sure it's a tough loss, no doubt about it. 

But..

The Yankees still went down fighting, there's no "give up" with this bunch.

I look for CC and Co. to throw a haymaker early and make a statement, take no prisoners.

As for the Senior Circuit, that was must see TV. 

The "World Fucking Champions" seem hellbent to defend and have all the firepower to do so.

On a side note..

Does anyone else find the "off day" between Game 4 and Game 5 (in both leagues) while still in the same city just goofy?

Ridiculous...

[pilferk]

On a side note..

Does anyone else find the "off day" between Game 4 and Game 5 (in both leagues) while still in the same city just goofy?

Ridiculous...

Right there with ya.  Thank the taskmaster that is TV coverage who want the game 6 and 7 (if necessary) as prime time weekend faire.   It's nuts.

[GypsySoul]

You GOTTA take Damon out.  It KILLS you offensively (double, actually...by losing Damon's bat AND your DH spot, which handcuffs you pitching-wise), but in the situation they were in, you need an arm in the outfield to TRY to make a play if anything goes out there. Yes, Mo gives up very few left field fly balls.  Yes, in all liklihood (and in hindsight) it would probably not be necessary.  It very well may have lost them the game..you're right..but you gotta do it anyway.  Because if he DOESN'T do it, and they DO get a fly ball to shallow left...they lose anyway.

Damon absolutely HAS to come out, Girardi made the best decision at the time to try and extend the game.

How can you NOT trust Mariano to get that out?? 

IMO, you leave Damon's weaker arm in there BECAUSE it's Mariano on the mound and you got a better chance of Damon getting the big hit later in the game (youze liked Cervelli pinch-hitting for Damon ... seriously??).  And, no offense to Hairston, but I would have rather seen Damon - who has the experience and is known for giving 1000000% in key defensive situations especially in championship series games - try and make that final catch!!!


As for Girardi taking Robertson out, obviously it turned out to be the wrong move but I think he wanted to give Aceves a much needed confidence boost by showing him that the team does have faith in his abilities to get that kind of out. 

[pilferk]

How can you NOT trust Mariano to get that out?? 

Sure you do.....but you plan for every eventuality to give yourself a chance to win the game.  In hindsight, it was a bad move.  But if that ball goes to left and Damon (who had the same thing happen earlier in the series...shallow left and couldn't throw the guy out at the plate...wasn't even close) can't come through...Girardi would be getting BASTED for not making a defensive replacement. He made YOUR decision earlier in the series (leaving Damon in) and Damon gave up the run.  They won, so no harm, no foul.  But they LOSE...and everyone's second guessing. Which is why I don't have a problem with the decision.

IMO, you leave Damon's weaker arm in there BECAUSE it's Mariano on the mound and you got a better chance of Damon getting the big hit later in the game (youze liked Cervelli pinch-hitting for Damon ... seriously??).  And, no offense to Hairston, but I would have rather seen Damon - who has the experience and is known for giving 1000000% in key defensive situations especially in championship series games - try and make that final catch!!!

I agree with the first point..which is why I agree that likely that decision might have cost them the game.  Again, you're RIGHT about that.  But you still have to take the risk because, at that moment, you're not thinking so much about "later" as you are not losing the game RIGHT NOW. You want to give Mo every chance to succeed and get out of it.

As for the 2nd point, where you'd rather have Damon...you did have him, earlier in the series.  And he gave up the run.  So you pretty much knew how it would play out, if the ball went out to him.  Why risk it happening AGAIN? 

As for Girardi taking Robertson out, obviously it turned out to be the wrong move but I think he wanted to give Aceves a much needed confidence boost by showing him that the team does have faith in his abilities to get that kind of out. 

The post season is no time for stroking a guys ego, no matter what your reasoning.  If Torre (or Grady Little for the Sox in '03) taught us anything, it's that.  You win games, and play for (and like) a team.  And, ultimately, if Joe's plan was to try to give Aceves some confidence, he put him in a crappy position to do it. It was hardly a "confidence building" type situation (which typically are lower pressure or have a much higher chance for success).  And now, Aceves feels WORSE. 

Robertson has been CRUISING, more or less, this post season.  You're in extra innings.  You gotta play the next day.  The "musical chairs" in the bullpen, where he's playing mix and match by the numbers....that's a fine line to walk when you don't know when the game is going to end.  Sure, they have Chad G waiting in the wings that can give them length if they exhaust the pen....but I think it's much better stratigically to go with the arm that's had noteable success this post season, and get some outs out of it, than it is to go with a guy who has NOT pitched well, in a big spot, just to match a hitter on case by case.  You "waste" a good arm out of the pen, you shorten your pen even more, and you runner a greater risk of either losing the game there (which they did) or losing it later because your pen is exhausted.  And all that is without a single bit of second guessing/Tuesday AM quarterbacking entering into the fray.  That's looking at the game in the moment the decision was made.

[GypsySoul]

As for the 2nd point, where you'd rather have Damon...you did have him, earlier in the series.  And he gave up the run.  So you pretty much knew how it would play out, if the ball went out to him.  Why risk it happening AGAIN? 

You risk it AGAIN because he's made that play more times in key situations than he hasn't AND YOU GOT MARIANO ON THE MOUND!!!!!

The post season is no time for stroking a guys ego, no matter what your reasoning.  If Torre (or Grady Little for the Sox in '03) taught us anything, it's that.  You win games, and play for (and like) a team.  And, ultimately, if Joe's plan was to try to give Aceves some confidence, he put him in a crappy position to do it. It was hardly a "confidence building" type situation (which typically are lower pressure or have a much higher chance for success).  And now, Aceves feels WORSE. 

Aceves and Robertson have both been "ify" in relief all season long.  Like the song says "when you're hot, you're hot - when you're not, you're not."  It would've been great to have those two combined for those outs.  Girardi gambled and lost.