2009 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[Falcon]

Howard's a fine player for sure, no doubt about it. 

That said, he's not even in the conversation with Albert....yet..

Strikes out way too much and is an average at best fielder.  If on the same team, they'd walk Pujols to get to Howard at every opportunity.

[sandman]

Howard's a fine player for sure, no doubt about it. 

That said, he's not even in the conversation with Albert....yet..

Strikes out way too much and is an average at best fielder.  If on the same team, they'd walk Pujols to get to Howard at every opportunity.

you obviously do not watch phillies games. he worked hard on his D this offseason and is actually very good.

not even in the conversation??? that's just a ridiculous statement.

[Falcon]

Howard's a fine player for sure, no doubt about it. 

That said, he's not even in the conversation with Albert....yet..

Strikes out way too much and is an average at best fielder.  If on the same team, they'd walk Pujols to get to Howard at every opportunity.

you obviously do not watch phillies games. he worked hard on his D this offseason and is actually very good.

not even in the conversation??? that's just a ridiculous statement.

I don't see as many Phillies games as I'd like, the most exciting team going for my money.

As stated above, Howard's a helluva player - I just don't think he's in the convo with Pujols.

Their power/RBI numbers are very comparable but Ryan just doesn't hit for near the average Albert does.  Pujols is a lifetime .330 plus guy with Howard around .280.  The strikeout totals for Howard are just crazy, pushes 200 annually.  That number would take Albert about 3 1/2 years to reach.  Pujol's slugging and on base % are considerably higher as well....

As for his fielding, impoved?  Sure.

In the same class as as Gonzalez, Lee, Pujols or Teixeira?  Not a chance.

Hell, I'm not sure if Howard's even the best player on the Phillies - I may go with Chase Utley.

You're a obviously someone who watches the Phillies consistently, who would you keep between the 2 if having both wasn't an option?

[sandman]

Howard's a fine player for sure, no doubt about it. 

That said, he's not even in the conversation with Albert....yet..

Strikes out way too much and is an average at best fielder.  If on the same team, they'd walk Pujols to get to Howard at every opportunity.

you obviously do not watch phillies games. he worked hard on his D this offseason and is actually very good.

not even in the conversation??? that's just a ridiculous statement.

I don't see as many Phillies games as I'd like, the most exciting team going for my money.

As stated above, Howard's a helluva player - I just don't think he's in the convo with Pujols.

Their power/RBI numbers are very comparable but Ryan just doesn't hit for near the average Albert does.  Pujols is a lifetime .330 plus guy with Howard around .280.  The strikeout totals for Howard are just crazy, pushes 200 annually.  That number would take Albert about 3 1/2 years to reach.  Pujol's slugging and on base % are considerably higher as well....

As for his fielding, impoved?  Sure.

In the same class as as Gonzalez, Lee, Pujols or Teixeira?  Not a chance.

Hell, I'm not sure if Howard's even the best player on the Phillies - I may go with Chase Utley.

You're a obviously someone who watches the Phillies consistently, who would you keep between the 2 if having both wasn't an option?

i agree pujols is the best player in baseball. i don't know why people even bother arguing that.

but who are the others? howard is obviously in that mix. 2005 rookie of the year, 2006 MVP, runner up in 2008, world series winner with 3 HRs in 5 WS games played. and again, faster to 200 HRs than anyone in the history of the league. that is simply amazing.

i didn't say his D is as good as the best defensive players in the league, but it certainly is above average.

and yes, great point about utley. that's a debate i've had over many a beers at many a bars during the last 3-4 years. it's basically a toss-up. utley's injury last year has had a major impact on him and his numbers have suffered a bit. but every year he does so many things to win games that do not show up on the stat sheet (e.g. WS Game 5 - utley does a pump fake to first, baits Bartlett into running home, then throws him out. HUGE play.). he's smart, he's clutch, and he's one of the best leaders in baseball.

one knock on utley is that his playoff numbers have not been good. but at the same time, we won a WS with him, and the hits he did get last year were huge, like the HR vs the dodgers in the middle of a pitcher's duel. also, he did just hit .429 with 1 HR and 5 R vs. the rockies.   

[pilferk]

i agree pujols is the best player in baseball. i don't know why people even bother arguing that.

After this season, even I conceed that one!

but who are the others? howard is obviously in that mix. 2005 rookie of the year, 2006 MVP, runner up in 2008, world series winner with 3 HRs in 5 WS games played. and again, faster to 200 HRs than anyone in the history of the league. that is simply amazing.

The others would be, IMHO:

Hanley Ramirez, Prince Fielder, Pablo Sandaval, Chase Utley, and maybe Adrian Gonzalez (who's on a horrible team).

That, Pujols, and Howard would be the short list of NL players.

[Falcon]

but who are the others?

Gotta agree with pilf on Howard, Ramirez, Utley, and Fielder and maybe Gonzalez - the Panda's gonna have to do it for a couple of more years consistently before I put him in the company above.  Same with the Andre Eithier.

Outside looking in at the Phils, Utley's the guy I always think will do something positive to change a game.  As you described above, the WS game 5 play is a perfect example. 

The guy is a winning player and has all the qualities you'd want in a teammate.

[sandman]

yeah, hanley is a STUD.

good to see some true baseball fans giving utley his due. not that he's necessarily under-rated or anything, but i've noticed alot of non-philly fans assume howard is the clear leader and mvp of the team. when clearly that is debateable.

but as we all know "chicks dig the long ball." and i'm guessing howard gets 5-10 times more highlights on ESPN than utley does.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Adrian Gonzalez (who's on a horrible team).

No.

He can't even hit to left field.  If you've ever seen a Padre game, you'll ROFLMAO when you see all the infielders positioned to the right of second base.

[Loaded NightraiN]

If you've ever seen a Padre game, you'll ROFLMAO when you see all the infielders positioned to the right of second base.

I'll laugh your ass off?? hmmmm

[pilferk]

No.

He can't even hit to left field.  If you've ever seen a Padre game, you'll ROFLMAO when you see all the infielders positioned to the right of second base.

Lots of players warrent the shift (which is the most "evil" defensive schema invented in baseball).  I'm not sure that makes him a lesser player.

And, even so, I'd put him at the top of the list in NL players.  Because even WITH the shift he puts up very good numbers.  .280 with 40 HR's on a team where he's really the only legit threat in the lineup (so can either be pitched around or get maximum pitcher focus/effort). 

On top of all that...I did say "Maybe".   

[novemberparadise23]

Nothing in sports gets me going like postseason baseball.(Particularly when my team is in it...Yankees)

What do you guys think about giradi going with the 3 man rotation against the Angels. i think it will be good. because cc in theory would only have to pitch on 3 days rest 1 time. 

[Falcon]

good to see some true baseball fans giving utley his due. not that he's necessarily under-rated or anything, but i've noticed alot of non-philly fans assume howard is the clear leader and mvp of the team. when clearly that is debateable.

but as we all know "chicks dig the long ball." and i'm guessing howard gets 5-10 times more highlights on ESPN than utley does.

Oh ya, he gets "his due" here - he's just that damn good.  I don't think I ever seen the cat make a bad play.

And yes, Howard's tape measure shots are much more likely to be on Baseball Tonight/Sportcenter than a nifty turn at second or getting a runner home from third with less than two out. 

That's just the nature of the beast I suppose.

One more thing on Gonzalez:

He also plays in a HUGE ballpark, goin yard the other way in that place regulary in that place is no small feat...

3 man rotation for the Yanks?  Smart move. 

CC's a helluva lot more trustable on short rest than anyone the Yanks could run out there as a 4th starter.

Agreed pilf?

[tim_m]

I think its a good idea since they screwed up Joba too much mentally limiting his innings. It looks like rain might necessitate a 4th starter though, which likely would be Gaudin.

[GypsySoul]

Was listening to some sports talk radio this am (might have been mike and mike...can't remember as I flip around) and heard this stat:

A-rod has played 42 post season games in his career.  .291 average, 9 home runs, 25 RBI. 

Reggie Jackson, after 42 games in the post season: .265 average, 5 home runs, 17 RBI.


Now, in game 43, Reggie hit 3 home runs, went 4 for 4, and knocked in 6 RBI.  And I'm certainly not saying that A-rod = Reggie/Mr. October.  But it does go to show that much of A-rod's percieved post-season failure is mythical in nature.  Certainly, no one is denying he had an awful stretch from 2004 ALCS game 5 til the end of the ALDS in 2007...he did.  But it's not like he was a sub .200 hitter who'd failed at every opportunity in the PS.

Anyway, I just thought those were interesting numbers.

Oy Fuckin Vey!!!  Talk about manipulating stats to justify a non-justifiable point!!!
That logic might win A-Rod a Nobel Peace Prize but NOT respect from fans for him coming through in serious clutch situations.

When A-Rod is a MAJOR factor in a team winning a World Series, then you can use his name in the same sentence as REG-GIE!!!  REG-GIE!!!  REG-GIE!!!

   44 

[freedom78]

Reggie Miller?  Now THAT guy was clutch!

[GypsySoul]

Reggie Miller?  Now THAT guy was clutch!

THAT'S BLASPHEMY TO NEW YORK FANS!!!! 

Didn't one year he try to get his wife a part in a Spike Lee movie if his team could beat my Knicks in a playoff game??  (which his team did lose). 
Reggie Jackson should have won an oscar for his role in The Naked Gun movie!!! 

[freedom78]

Reggie Miller?  Now THAT guy was clutch!

THAT'S BLASPHEMY TO NEW YORK FANS!!!! 

Good. 

For the record, the Pacers w/ Miller met the Knicks six times in the playoffs.  Each team won three series. 

So...so much for this BS:

(which his team did lose). 

Also, here's a gem I'm sure you'll enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3RkL-Hc9T0

[GypsySoul]

For the record, the Pacers w/ Miller met the Knicks six times in the playoffs.  Each team won three series. 

So...so much for this BS:

(which his team did lose). 

I was referring to this:

(Quotes by Reggie Miller)
We had a bet: If we won the series, my wife Marita would get a role in his next movie. If the Knicks won, I'd have to visit Mike Tyson in prison in Indiana.

We were up, 3-2, in the series, but then we relaxed. We went home to Indiana and lost by 7. Then we went back to New York and got beat by 4. End of season.
 

Also, here's a gem I'm sure you'll enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3RkL-Hc9T0

HA!!!  YOU'RE WRONG AGAIN!!! 
I didn't enjoy that one bit.   



ON TOPIC:  Heavy rain is predicted for the next four or five days here so who knows when they'll get the ALCS started. 

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

For the record, the Pacers w/ Miller met the Knicks six times in the playoffs.  Each team won three series. 

So...so much for this BS:

(which his team did lose). 

I was referring to this:

(Quotes by Reggie Miller)
We had a bet: If we won the series, my wife Marita would get a role in his next movie. If the Knicks won, I'd have to visit Mike Tyson in prison in Indiana.

We were up, 3-2, in the series, but then we relaxed. We went home to Indiana and lost by 7. Then we went back to New York and got beat by 4. End of season.
 

Also, here's a gem I'm sure you'll enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3RkL-Hc9T0

HA!!!  YOU'RE WRONG AGAIN!!! 
I didn't enjoy that one bit.   



ON TOPIC:  Heavy rain is predicted for the next four or five days here so who knows when they'll get the ALCS started. 

And since MLB and all the networks have to bow to the Yankees every wish, the west coast/NL fans get the shaft with abstract start times!!!!!   

(Meh, I don't really care, I was able to get cheap tickets because of these wacky start times!  )

[cotis]

For the record, the Pacers w/ Miller met the Knicks six times in the playoffs.  Each team won three series. 

So...so much for this BS:

(which his team did lose). 

I was referring to this:

(Quotes by Reggie Miller)
We had a bet: If we won the series, my wife Marita would get a role in his next movie. If the Knicks won, I'd have to visit Mike Tyson in prison in Indiana.

We were up, 3-2, in the series, but then we relaxed. We went home to Indiana and lost by 7. Then we went back to New York and got beat by 4. End of season.
 

Also, here's a gem I'm sure you'll enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3RkL-Hc9T0

HA!!!  YOU'RE WRONG AGAIN!!! 
I didn't enjoy that one bit.   



ON TOPIC:  Heavy rain is predicted for the next four or five days here so who knows when they'll get the ALCS started. 

And since MLB and all the networks have to bow to the Yankees every wish, the west coast/NL fans get the shaft with abstract start times!!!!!  

(Meh, I don't really care, I was able to get cheap tickets because of these wacky start times!  )

Gotta listen to your bottom bitch! (South Park reference)