2009 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[faldor]

I wouldn't be surprised it the Sox lost 3 of 4 in the series, I'd hope they could win at least the Beckett or Lester game.  The only thing that would really surprise me would be a sweep on either side.

Surprise, Surprise, Surprise.



I didn't think there was any way I'd be waking up (bleary eyed) on Monday morning with the results we got.

Yeah, I would've retracted that statement AFTER they lost that 15 inning game.  That was a crusher.  After A-Rod hit that homer I turned off the TV and stared blankly into space for about 5 minutes just sitting still on the couch.  I haven't done that since Aaron Boone broke my heart.  After that game I would've bet a pretty good amount on a sweep.

I wouldn't say the fat lady is singing yet, but the Sox are certainly more concerned with just making the playoffs at this point.  The division is secondary, they've got way more problems to worry about than that right now.  These two teams squared off at about the worst possible time for the Sox.  The Yanks were hot as hell and the Sox, not so much.  Actually these two teams really haven't met all season when both teams have been going well.  Thus the 8 game streak to start for the Sox, now the 4 game sweep by the Yanks.

And for the record, as "clutch" as A-Rod was in this series, he will continue to get criticized until he does that in October when the lights are shining brightly.  Fair or not, that's the way it is.  In fact, A-Rod could hit .375 in October but if he goes 0-4 with 4 K's with the bases loaded in that series that's what people will remember, rendering the .375 average meaningless.  So he's not out of the woods yet.  He's been real clutch in the REGULAR season the past 2 years, but he's yet to do that in October.  We'll wait and see.  I do think it will happen eventually.  He's/They're too good for it not to, but until then, the doubters/haters will continue to voice their opinions.  And rightfully so.

[Loaded NightraiN]

I'm also partial to Melky...my kids love him and he's been nice to me TWICE during BP and gifted me a ball.  We've taken to calling him "The Rally Master" this year....after calling him "The Rally Killer" last year.

Nice  See what happens when you get a little competition in the outfield, brings out the best in him...

Tex always has a smile on his face and seems like a great teammate... He doesn't carry baggage or hatred A-Rod does (although that's just media BS anyway)....

Look at us talking about all these guys, it seems like were getting some Tino Martinez, Paul O' Neil, Scott Brosius, etc type chemistry here 

[tim_m]

I'm also partial to Melky...my kids love him and he's been nice to me TWICE during BP and gifted me a ball.  We've taken to calling him "The Rally Master" this year....after calling him "The Rally Killer" last year.

Nice  See what happens when you get a little competition in the outfield, brings out the best in him...

Tex always has a smile on his face and seems like a great teammate... He doesn't carry baggage or hatred A-Rod does (although that's just media BS anyway)....

Look at us talking about all these guys, it seems like were getting some Tino Martinez, Paul O' Neil, Scott Brosius, etc type chemistry here 

It really does. Everyone seems to genuinely like eachother and are having fun playing on the same team. Everyone says the clubhouse is a lot a fun and not businesslike as its been in recent years.

[D]

let me preface this by saying I absolutely hate the Boston Red Sox

but to count them out right now is just ridiculous.

It's how u play in October that matters and Boston will get in the playoffs and they will get hot at the right time.

Yankees are red hot right now but if they start slumping Mid September, it isn't gonna matter.


A Rod did great in the Boston Series but that was regular season
if he does it in the playoffs, I will give him all the credit in the world.

[GypsySoul]

How was that not a "money game"??

But then you set it up perfectly:  AJ was clutch, A-rod wasn't...both performances in the same game. 

You gotta be from outta town 

money game = post-season game

The difference between what AJ did and what A-Rod did was that the Yankees absolutely, positively, without a doubt NEEDED him to keep the Yankees in the game beyond 5 innings because of Joba's sub-par pitching and the bullpen being depleted and the entire team being exhausted from the day before.

As Damon n' Teixeira proved last night, if Alex didn't hit that walk-off, more likely than not someone else would have.

AND ... what AJ n' CC n' Andy did was take A LOT of pressure off Mitre tonight so he can try to get his act together.

[tim_m]

How was that not a "money game"??

But then you set it up perfectly:  AJ was clutch, A-rod wasn't...both performances in the same game. 

You gotta be from outta town 

money game = post-season game

The difference between what AJ did and what A-Rod did was that the Yankees absolutely, positively, without a doubt NEEDED him to keep the Yankees in the game beyond 5 innings because of Joba's sub-par pitching and the bullpen being depleted and the entire team being exhausted from the day before.

As Damon n' Teixeira proved last night, if Alex didn't hit that walk-off, more likely than not someone else would have.

AND ... what AJ n' CC n' Andy did was take A LOT of pressure off Mitre tonight so he can try to get his act together.

Which he hasn't unfortunately. 4 runs in under 5 innings. I think Gaudin is gonna get a start soon.

[GypsySoul]

AND ... what AJ n' CC n' Andy did was take A LOT of pressure off Mitre tonight so he can try to get his act together.

Which he hasn't unfortunately. 4 runs in under 5 innings. I think Gaudin is gonna get a start soon.

Yeah, I think so too.  Especially since the Yankees are intent on allowing Joba to work through his starting issues, the fifth starter either gotta produce or expect to be replaced.

Too bad for Mitre that he couldn't come through for himself.  Seems like his own throwing error (even though Cano was 'officially' charged with the error) was the catalysis of his collapse.  Didn't that happen in his last start too?

[tim_m]

AND ... what AJ n' CC n' Andy did was take A LOT of pressure off Mitre tonight so he can try to get his act together.

Which he hasn't unfortunately. 4 runs in under 5 innings. I think Gaudin is gonna get a start soon.

Yeah, I think so too.  Especially since the Yankees are intent on allowing Joba to work through his starting issues, the fifth starter either gotta produce or expect to be replaced.

Too bad for Mitre that he couldn't come through for himself.  Seems like his own throwing error (even though Cano was 'officially' charged with the error) was the catalysis of his collapse.  Didn't that happen in his last start too?

Joba's been good since the break with the exception of thursday. I think he just had too much rest between starts. 7 days off can throw off a pitcher. I expect a much better start tomorrow.

Yeah i think it did.

[pilferk]

How was that not a "money game"??

But then you set it up perfectly:  AJ was clutch, A-rod wasn't...both performances in the same game. 

You gotta be from outta town 

money game = post-season game

Money game, to most people (including most New Yorkers) means a game that's clearly gonna have an effect on the outcome of the season.

That was about as close to a playoff series as you're likely to find during a regular season.

The difference between what AJ did and what A-Rod did was that the Yankees absolutely, positively, without a doubt NEEDED him to keep the Yankees in the game beyond 5 innings because of Joba's sub-par pitching and the bullpen being depleted and the entire team being exhausted from the day before.

Seems to me that without A-rod on Friday and Sunday, Yanks don't win those games.  Sure seems like they NEEDED A-rod, too.

As Damon n' Teixeira proved last night, if Alex didn't hit that walk-off, more likely than not someone else would have.

AND ... what AJ n' CC n' Andy did was take A LOT of pressure off Mitre tonight so he can try to get his act together.

Except, well...nobody else did.  And they all had their chances.  They go into the 16th inning, and you take a look at who the Yanks would have had on the mound....Yes, Sox were out of arms, too.  But ignoring what A-rod did is just absurd.

You can't bash the guy for not being clutch...and then when he is say "Well, someone else could have done it".  You can't have it both ways.  Just give him the credit he's due for this past weekend, and lets move on, eh?

[pilferk]

Mitre lost the game for them, last night.  Pure and simple.

I'm not surprised, actually.  Given what we've seen from him, so far, I wasn't shocked.

His error was horrible.  But his inability to get people out with 2 outs killed him.  The final nail was that TOWERING HR he gave up.  Til then, the Yanks offense was doing it's darndest to keep him in the game.

[pilferk]

let me preface this by saying I absolutely hate the Boston Red Sox

but to count them out right now is just ridiculous.

To count them out? Yes.  But then, I don't see anyone (here) doing that.

To count them down?  Not so much.  It's a big hole to dig yourself out of with 50 games left.  Add to that the fact they now have to watch their rearview, as well.....

I won't say they're completely out of it, til the Yanks have a 10 game lead with 9 to play.  But with every game played, the Sox window gets smaller.  At this point, the Sox aren't masters of their own destiny.  They're gonna need a good bit of help from the Yanks.  They might get it..but so far, since Mid-May (and that's a LOT of games), the Yanks haven't had a prolonged cold streak of more than 2-3 games...and both those cold streaks were followed by extended winning streaks.  I'm with you.  They COULD cool off.  There COULD be an injury that really effects them.  Any of that is possible.  But, honestly and objectively, do you think it's LIKELY?  At this point, with everything we've seen..what do you think the LIKELY outcome is?

It's how u play in October that matters and Boston will get in the playoffs and they will get hot at the right time.

Yankees are red hot right now but if they start slumping Mid September, it isn't gonna matter.

You have to get to October to play in October (both Yanks and Sox). We should tattoo that on your head. 

A Rod did great in the Boston Series but that was regular season
if he does it in the playoffs, I will give him all the credit in the world.

The thing is, D..the metric constantly changes.  Maybe not from you, specifically...but from the A-rod detractors in general.

First, it was : He's not clutch, at all.  So, over the past 3 seasons...he's gotten quite a bit better at that. Then it was: He puts up meaningless stats.  Took a look at that, and turns out it's not true, and it's become even LESS true this season.  Now it's: He doesn't produce in every single post season (though his 2007 numbers were fine).  Next it'll be: He didn't single-handedly win every single post-season game. 

It just seems to be never ending....the detractors are never happy, and will move the bar JUST so they can be detractors.

[sandman]

pilferk - the Sox still control their own destiny. first of all, they are in the lead for the WC. and secondly, they play the yanks several more times this season.

they won't come back to win the division, but if i had to bet money on the WC it would be on them. and in the last 7 years, half of the teams that made it to the world series were WC teams. home field isn't too big...you just gotta get in.

the reality is that the SOX have been in a slump since the beginning of July. they were playing about .500 during the 5 weeks leading up to the yanks series.

the true impact of the sweep will not be known for a couple weeks after the rangers series this weekend and the yanks series next week. cause then we will know if this was another major dagger that sent the season even further in the tailspin it has been in.

Red Sox fans need to be brought back to earth though. losing to an expansion team at home in Game 7 started that process, but they are still pretty obnoxious.   

[pilferk]

pilferk - the Sox still control their own destiny. first of all, they are in the lead for the WC. and secondly, they play the yanks several more times this season.

they won't come back to win the division, but if i had to bet money on the WC it would be on them. and in the last 7 years, half of the teams that made it to the world series were WC teams. home field isn't too big...you just gotta get in.

the reality is that the SOX have been in a slump since the beginning of July. they were playing about .500 during the 5 weeks leading up to the yanks series.

the true impact of the sweep will not be known for a couple weeks after the rangers series this weekend and the yanks series next week. cause then we will know if this was another major dagger that sent the season even further in the tailspin it has been in.

Red Sox fans need to be brought back to earth though. losing to an expansion team at home in Game 7 started that process, but they are still pretty obnoxious.   

Sorry, I should have been clearer..I was talking in terms of winning the AL East, not the WC. Unless/until the rangers or TB manage to put the Sox in THEIR rearview, that is.

But in terms of the AL East..they're gonna need some help from the Yanks....because to make up enough ground, the Yanks are going to have to play well below their current winning % for the Sox to have a realistic chance at playing catch up.  And every game they play makes that mountain a steeper climb.  Again, I'm not saying it's impossible, but the Sox are definitely going to need some help.

I was "talking" about this on another board:  This season for the Sox, right now, has some amazing similarities to the '06 season.  It remains to be seen if the outcome will be the same....

[sandman]

pilferk - the Sox still control their own destiny. first of all, they are in the lead for the WC. and secondly, they play the yanks several more times this season.

they won't come back to win the division, but if i had to bet money on the WC it would be on them. and in the last 7 years, half of the teams that made it to the world series were WC teams. home field isn't too big...you just gotta get in.

the reality is that the SOX have been in a slump since the beginning of July. they were playing about .500 during the 5 weeks leading up to the yanks series.

the true impact of the sweep will not be known for a couple weeks after the rangers series this weekend and the yanks series next week. cause then we will know if this was another major dagger that sent the season even further in the tailspin it has been in.

Red Sox fans need to be brought back to earth though. losing to an expansion team at home in Game 7 started that process, but they are still pretty obnoxious.   

Sorry, I should have been clearer..I was talking in terms of winning the AL East, not the WC. Unless/until the rangers or TB manage to put the Sox in THEIR rearview, that is.

But in terms of the AL East..they're gonna need some help from the Yanks....because to make up enough ground, the Yanks are going to have to play well below their current winning % for the Sox to have a realistic chance at playing catch up.  And every game they play makes that mountain a steeper climb.  Again, I'm not saying it's impossible, but the Sox are definitely going to need some help.

I was "talking" about this on another board:  This season for the Sox, right now, has some amazing similarities to the '06 season.  It remains to be seen if the outcome will be the same....

just to clarify, the SOX do not need help from the Yankees. they are 5 games out in the loss column and they play the yankees 6 more times this season. if they sweep those 6 and then win more games than the yanks in the other games, they win the AL East. they have 100% control of their own destiny. absolutely no help needed from the yanks.

[pilferk]

just to clarify, the SOX do not need help from the Yankees. they are 5 games out in the loss column and they play the yankees 6 more times this season. if they sweep those 6 and then win more games than the yanks in the other games, they win the AL East. they have 100% control of their own destiny. absolutely no help needed from the yanks.

Which would be substantially below the Yanks current winning %, no?  And getting swept by the sox over 6 games would be "Helping them out", no? 

If the Yanks play .615 baseball (their current winning %) the rest of the way out....the Sox ain't catching them.  They'd need to go 37-14, or play .725 baseball.

They need "help" from the Yanks in the sense that the Yanks have to play below their current season winning %, and MUCH below their winning % since mid-May, for the sox to have a realistic chance at catching them.  That's just the facts, man.  Even if they go 2-4 against the Sox the rest of the way (which matches their .333 winning % against them this year, and I think is pretty generous toward the Sox), the Sox are still back by 3.5 games.

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

[faldor]

This obnoxios Red Sox fan has to step in right here.  The Red Sox did not lose game 7 to an expansion team at home last season.  They lost that game on the road at Tampa, a place they just can't seem to win these days.  They're like 1-16 in their last 17 games there or something ridiculous.  They were the wild card last year, the Rays won the division. 

[sandman]

just to clarify, the SOX do not need help from the Yankees. they are 5 games out in the loss column and they play the yankees 6 more times this season. if they sweep those 6 and then win more games than the yanks in the other games, they win the AL East. they have 100% control of their own destiny. absolutely no help needed from the yanks.

And getting swept by the sox over 6 games would be "Helping them out", no? 

no. it would not be.

not a big deal, but just a heads up....when talking about leads for playoff spots, to say a team "controls its own destiny" means that if they win all of their remaining games, they get the spot.

realistically, do they need help from the yanks? probably. but they do play them 6 times. and when you beat a team it's not considered "help."

[sandman]

This obnoxios Red Sox fan has to step in right here.  The Red Sox did not lose game 7 to an expansion team at home last season.  They lost that game on the road at Tampa, a place they just can't seem to win these days.  They're like 1-16 in their last 17 games there or something ridiculous.  They were the wild card last year, the Rays won the division. 

my bad. i stand corrected. i remember watching that game too. it was a sunday night and garza was on fire.

still, the red sox lost 2 of 3 at home in the ALCS to the Rays. ouch. not that it would have mattered. Phils would have destroyed the Red Sox in the WS anyway. 

[D]

The thing about baseball isn't necessarily who has the best team, it is who gets hot at the right time. Look at the Rockies a couple years ago.

I am afraid the Yanks will hit a slump mid Sept like my Atlanta Braves seemed to always do and get bounced.

Boston slumping now would scare me if I were an AL team cause u know it isn't going to last forever and if they start peaking again mid Sept. Watch out.

[faldor]

This obnoxios Red Sox fan has to step in right here.  The Red Sox did not lose game 7 to an expansion team at home last season.  They lost that game on the road at Tampa, a place they just can't seem to win these days.  They're like 1-16 in their last 17 games there or something ridiculous.  They were the wild card last year, the Rays won the division. 

my bad. i stand corrected. i remember watching that game too. it was a sunday night and garza was on fire.

still, the red sox lost 2 of 3 at home in the ALCS to the Rays. ouch. not that it would have mattered. Phils would have destroyed the Red Sox in the WS anyway. 

I can't say I would've loved their chances against the Phils, but I wouldn't have minded giving it a shot.  But at the time, Beckett wasn't pitching well.  Lowell was out, leaving them with a horrendous 7-9 in the lineup (Kotsay, Varitek, Lowrie).  The only reason they pushed Tampa to the brink is because they had the experience and refused to die.  Until game 7, Garza was just too good.  Even though Lester pitched his ass off.  But earlier in the series Lester was hit hard and Beckett just never found himself.  It's a wonder they even went to 7 games with those performances.