2009 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[pilferk]

NOOOOOO!!!!!

You're ignoring the fact that he hit .270 before the most epic meltdown in all of sports!!!!

STOP BEING SO SELECTIVE!

I'M TAKING MY BALL AND GOING HOME!

What epic meltdown was there in 2007?  The gnats?

2007 was their most recent playoff appearance.  He batted .270.  Why is that not the more representative sample set, given it's more recent? 

And my ball is right here.....buy why play with a guy who buries their head in the sand when handed "the rules"?

[pilferk]

Those stupid stats are only preached by geekboys like yourself.  Fire away all those useless figures all you want, but the FACT remains that A-ROD is not a CLUTCH playoff performer and he will choke again when he needs to rise to the occasion.  Sure it's pointless trying to speak to me or anyone in this thread, because:

A) You're only trying to convince yourself that the Yankees are OK and have always been on top.
B) Obscure stats make your boys look good and help you sleep at night.
C) No one really cares about those things.  You think a scout in some Caribbean island is going to hold off on signing a prospect because he needs to study the player's EQA, LIPS, and DIPS?

Take the emotion out of sports why don't ya?  Let's just run the games on simulators.

RIGGGGHHHHHT.  Because the stats don't lead you to the conclusion you want them to....they're stupid.  Who's taking their ball and going home, again?

Again, thanks for so elequently proving my original point with your post.  Lots of fluff, chest thumping and bluster...no actual substance...exactly the problem I pointed out.

1) FYI, I don't need to convince myself of anything.  I've been a Yanks fan since I could walk....around 30 years. I went to my first game in 1980.  I've lived through the ups and downs, and am under no illusion they've "always been on top".  But I'm also not delusional.  I'm not going to sit here and agree to things that fly in the face of reality and history.
2) Stats tell the story of history.  Simple as that.  They're the reflection of whats actually happened.  I understand that when they shatter your emotional perception, you don't like them.  Which is why I said it's pointless to discuss this with you.  You REFUSE to actually acknowledge reason.  Whatever gets you through the night.... (FYI, I sleep just fine, whether the Yanks win or lose).
3) Lots of people "care" about those things.  Managers manage on stats. Pitchers pitch on stats. Stats drive this game. The fact you don't think so.....is interesting.

Emotion in the stands, when watching games, sometimes when PLAYING games is good.

Emotion when discussing sports = a lot of yelling and screaming.  You'll never come to common ground...which means a lot of circular screaming.  Oh, wait..... 

 

[pilferk]

Boston fans have been screaming to drop Smoltz like a bad habit.  He hasn't fared well against the likes of the Royals, Orioles, and A's, so facing the Yankees seems like an absolute disaster.  BUT, like you said, these matchups are often unpredictable.  Maybe Smoltz and Buchholz focus a little better on the big stage.  I doubt it, but I can dream.  Beckett and Lester have been pitching great of late but they're no guarantee.  The Yanks have hit Beckett pretty well in the past and Lester can be spotty at times.  The Sox need to make some sort of waiver deal for a SS.  Nick Green has hit the wall and Jed Lowrie is batting .120 or so.  It's close to an automatic out in the #9 spot.

I wouldn't be surprised it the Sox lost 3 of 4 in the series, I'd hope they could win at least the Beckett or Lester game.  The only thing that would really surprise me would be a sweep on either side.

Well, game 1 went pretty  much as expected.

Nice win for the Yanks.  That assures them that they'll go into the Toronto series in 1st (by at least 1/2 a game).  Joba was decent, but not great...Smoltz just fell apart, completely, when going through the lineup the 2nd (and 3rd) time.

Why is it that with almost any other game...up by 6,7,8 runs....I chalk the game up to a win and start channel surfing.  Against the sox?  This was the "closest" 9 (and ultimately 7) run game I can remember watching.  Maybe it was the number of baserunners (WALKS) the Yanks allowed, maybe it was just the fact that we all know "wacky" things happen with the Sox/Yanks game...I don't know.

Oh....and I'm "anxiously" awaiting the response for the (I think inadvertant) plunking of Pedroia.  Jete's should probably don some extra body armor til it happens.   I wish we could trot Melancon out there so the Sox could take it out on him.....

[pilferk]

OK, it's August 7th.  There's 50 games-ish left in the season.

Can we officially declare the Mets dead?  Can NY sports talk radio just hold the funeral, now?  With the injuries they endured (and continue to endure), they're done (again).  But I still hear people talking like they could make a run.  Really?  12 out in the loss column from Philly, 9 out in the loss column from the Giants...."epic" doesn't even begin to describe the comeback they'd need to mount, especially in light of who's playing on the field right now.  And we ALL know that the Mets have not, in the past couple of years, played well down the stretch even WITH their big guns.

[sandman]

OK, it's August 7th.  There's 50 games-ish left in the season.

Can we officially declare the Mets dead?  Can NY sports talk radio just hold the funeral, now?  With the injuries they endured (and continue to endure), they're done (again).  But I still hear people talking like they could make a run.  Really?  12 out in the loss column from Philly, 9 out in the loss column from the Giants...."epic" doesn't even begin to describe the comeback they'd need to mount, especially in light of who's playing on the field right now.  And we ALL know that the Mets have not, in the past couple of years, played well down the stretch even WITH their big guns.

mets were finished by the all-star break. they need to rebuild that team. even their young nucleus is no where near as good as they thought they were 2 years ago. i can't believe anyone in their right mind would try to say they can still make a run. i have close friends that are Mets fans and they stopped talking baseball a month ago. i sent them the "how did you enjoy the mets 2009 season" in mid-july. i think the phils sweep of the mets in early july (including a W vs. santana) really took the heart out of Mets fans early this year. and their play since that series hasn't done anything to bring them back.

there are a few teams from the NL capable of dominating in the playoffs. SF will be a tough team to beat in a series, Cards are getting great SP, and the dodgers are a good team. The Phils are the best team on paper (maybe in all of MLB) and have played like it for stretches of this season. but the chances of it all coming together at the right time two years in a row is a long-shot.

by the way, here's cliff lee's stats in 2 games with the phils...

W   ERA     IP    K   BB
2   1.13  16.0  10   2

he's also 2 for 6 at the plate including a double.

[pilferk]

mets were finished by the all-star break. they need to rebuild that team. even their young nucleus is no where near as good as they thought they were 2 years ago. i can't believe anyone in their right mind would try to say they can still make a run. i have close friends that are Mets fans and they stopped talking baseball a month ago. i sent them the "how did you enjoy the mets 2009 season" in mid-july. i think the phils sweep of the mets in early july (including a W vs. santana) really took the heart out of Mets fans early this year. and their play since that series hasn't done anything to bring them back.

I got nothing to add....

I agree...!!??

Yet I still hear some of the NY sports media/radio insisting the Mets could get some of the walking wounded back and "make a run".  I heard it yesterday, and again this morning.  Huh???  I want some of what they're smokin'   

there are a few teams from the NL capable of dominating in the playoffs. SF will be a tough team to beat in a series, Cards are getting great SP, and the dodgers are a good team. The Phils are the best team on paper (maybe in all of MLB) and have played like it for stretches of this season. but the chances of it all coming together at the right time two years in a row is a long-shot.

by the way, here's cliff lee's stats in 2 games with the phils...

W   ERA     IP    K   BB
2   1.13  16.0  10   2

he's also 2 for 6 at the plate including a double.

I HOPE we get to see the Phillies/Dodgers in the playoffs.  I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing that series....They're both so good (though LA has cooled off a bit at the Phillies have heated up).

[pilferk]

One other thing:

Can someone tell the media that the Red Sox are NOT done??!!

I know, shocking coming from a Yanks fan.  But ESPN has been basically burying them a good part of the morning.  So was NY sports radio this morning, but I expect that.
But, for example, they're on "1st and 10" right now saying the Sox are, if you rate it on a scale of 1 to 10, an 8 on the "in trouble" scale.

Really?  They're 3 1/2 games out of first, a couple games in front in the wild card, and they're in trouble?  They're having a rough stretch since the AS break, they've seen a 7 game swing in the standings,  but....how do you write them off?  With 50 games left.  If they get swept...fine.  Still a bit premature, IMHO, but at least I can see some reasoning there. 

IT WAS ONE GAME!!  A game against a guy, going in, you had to figure the Yanks were going to get to......

I just don't get it.....

[Loaded NightraiN]

^ You're right about the Sox pilferk


Yankees pitching was horrible yesterday, but that was covered by their hitting... They can't expect to score 13 every game, because we know how their bats can get streaky and go silent... So if/when that happens pitching had better improve!

But I do hope all this sox negativity really gets to them 

[pilferk]

^ You're right about the Sox pilferk


Yankees pitching was horrible yesterday, but that was covered by their hitting... They can't expect to score 13 every game, because we know how their bats can get streaky and go silent... So if/when that happens pitching had better improve!

But I do hope all this sox negativity really gets to them 

I agree on the pitching...but (aside from Joba) keep in mind you also faced the "underbelly" of our bullpen...well, almost: You didn't see Bruney.  

But you also didn't see Aceves, Hughes, or Mo. 

Joba was....inconsistent.  He was decent enough (3 runs in 5 innings isn't horrible...especially considering a lot of the Sox baserunners were walks!) and got big outs when he needed them, but he just could not get the ball into the strike zone.  I've heard, this morning, from both biased and unbiased reports that it seems like the ump was giving him a strike zone the size of a postage stamp.  I didn't notice that, last night, though....because there were times he wasn't hitting Posada's target.  That has nothing to do with the strike zone.   Nerves, maybe?  "Familiarity" (the sox have, with ONE exception, hit him pretty well)?  Just a bad night? I don't know.  Thankfully (if you're a Yanks fan) Smoltz made it irrelevant in one inning.

Tonight, I'd say it's advantage Sox.  Then again, last time we had Beckett vs AJ...we got a 16-11 game.  So go figure.  Yanks win tonight, I like their chances at 3 of 4.  But I just don't see them getting the W tonight.  We'll see.

[Loaded NightraiN]

Yeah pitchers were missing targets all night for the yanks...


Burnett is alot better than last time VS the sox (although his last outing was forgettable)... If he can go 7 strong I like our chances...

The good thing about a win out of the gate, besides breaking the 0-8, is even if the yanks go 0-3 from here on out they are still 1st in the division!

[Bill 213]

To defend my poor Mets.......what can you say?  We had the fucking TEAM this year and it just went to shambles.  New field (that I have to believe is cursed already...I mean c'mon first batter home run!), countless injuries, mentally challenged front office (offering to fight players instead of trading them!).......I just give up!

As far as a run, nah...they have some spunk left in them and the bats are starting to finally come alive somewhat with Wright, Murphy, Francoeur, Pagan and Santos, but the annual late August-Mid September pitching crumbling is starting now.  K-Rod has looked rough in his past couple appearances...Johan had a dry spell, but is looking alive again..Pelfrey is starting to look rough,  Livan Hernandez isn't reliable, Olie Perez is absolutely horrendous since coming back and now with the addition of Bobby Parnell into the starting rotation who knows?  Our bullpen is looking worse everyday with Putz and Wagoner gone.....Sean Green and Pedro Feliciano have lost us close games in almost every appearance. 

As far as people coming back, Beltran is still banged up but perhaps should be back in two weeks (not sure why at this point....let him take as long as he needs to heal)  Reyes keeps having setbacks and now may not make it back.  Delgado is still questionable but could be back in September. 

[pilferk]

Yeah pitchers were missing targets all night for the yanks...

I expect it from Clagget, Melancon, and a tired Robertson.  I don't expect it from Joba...and even seeing Coke give up the walks was odd.  But there's no denying they were missing the target, for sure, so it's hard for me to blame the strike zone

Burnett is alot better than last time VS the sox (although his last outing was forgettable)... If he can go 7 strong I like our chances...

The good thing about a win out of the gate, besides breaking the 0-8, is even if the yanks go 0-3 from here on out they are still 1st in the division!

I was saying the same thing to my wife last night, and again this morning.  We see Toronto with at least a .5 game lead.  One more win, and we come out the same way we went in.

[pilferk]

A's just released Jason Giambi.....

Stick a fork in him.

[pilferk]

Well, I'll see you all on Monday.  Off to celebrate my oldest daughters birthday (she turns 7 today), and then at Yanks games the next 2 days!

Gonna be a fun weekend.

[freedom78]

Well, I'll see you all on Monday.  Off to celebrate my oldest daughters birthday (she turns 7 today), and then at Yanks games the next 2 days!

Gonna be a fun weekend.

Tell her "happy birthday" from the nutcase online GNR fan community! 

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Those stupid stats are only preached by geekboys like yourself.  Fire away all those useless figures all you want, but the FACT remains that A-ROD is not a CLUTCH playoff performer and he will choke again when he needs to rise to the occasion.  Sure it's pointless trying to speak to me or anyone in this thread, because:

A) You're only trying to convince yourself that the Yankees are OK and have always been on top.
B) Obscure stats make your boys look good and help you sleep at night.
C) No one really cares about those things.  You think a scout in some Caribbean island is going to hold off on signing a prospect because he needs to study the player's EQA, LIPS, and DIPS?

Take the emotion out of sports why don't ya?  Let's just run the games on simulators.

RIGGGGHHHHHT.  Because the stats don't lead you to the conclusion you want them to....they're stupid.  Who's taking their ball and going home, again?

Again, thanks for so elequently proving my original point with your post.  Lots of fluff, chest thumping and bluster...no actual substance...exactly the problem I pointed out.

1) FYI, I don't need to convince myself of anything.  I've been a Yanks fan since I could walk....around 30 years. I went to my first game in 1980.  I've lived through the ups and downs, and am under no illusion they've "always been on top".  But I'm also not delusional.  I'm not going to sit here and agree to things that fly in the face of reality and history.
2) Stats tell the story of history.  Simple as that.  They're the reflection of whats actually happened.  I understand that when they shatter your emotional perception, you don't like them.  Which is why I said it's pointless to discuss this with you.  You REFUSE to actually acknowledge reason.  Whatever gets you through the night.... (FYI, I sleep just fine, whether the Yanks win or lose).
3) Lots of people "care" about those things.  Managers manage on stats. Pitchers pitch on stats. Stats drive this game. The fact you don't think so.....is interesting.

Emotion in the stands, when watching games, sometimes when PLAYING games is good.

Emotion when discussing sports = a lot of yelling and screaming.  You'll never come to common ground...which means a lot of circular screaming.  Oh, wait..... 

 

You're using A-Rod's Seattle numbers to justify his Yankee failures?  No one will judge him as a Mariner, you're just using his average there in the playoffs to bump up his career postseason average.  What a shady tactic.

You're going to blame the insects for the Yankees complete failure in 2007?  Cool dude, I'll blame the smog for the Dodgers meltdown in the NLCS last year.

When you have no more useless "evidence" to back up A-Rod, you go on to say we don't "get it."  That's fine with me, I won't consume my time with meaningless, yes, MEANINGLESS numbers that help cope with the losing.  You can "pump your chest" and rip out your hair all you want, but LIPS and PECOTA don't really mean anything to me or to most baseball fans.  THAT right there is what I think is fluff.  Don't think you're something special just because you use sabermetrics to judge someones impact on the game.

Nice spin job by the way.  I didn't imply that REASONABLE stats were useless, I said that YOUR computer whiz kid stats were pretty useless, especially when you use them to justify Choke-Rod's paltry postseason numbers.

Have fun at the place across the street from the Real Yankee Stadium.  Pay your respects to the grand cathedral of the game on your way there.

[faldor]

Joba was BAD last night.  I'd use the term awful, but then I don't know what word to use to describe Smoltz.  7 walks in 5 innings is just plain bad.  There's no getting around that.  Fortunately for him he walked the guys in the middle of the order and then got the 8-9 guys out.  Seriously the Sox should consider just letting the pitcher hit instead of their SS.  Lowrie looks like he's headed to the DL, his .120 average will be missed. 

Smoltz has been designated for assignment, finally.  I was willing to give the guy every chance but I think last night proved that he just doesn't have it anymore.  A great career for a first ballot hall of famer, but obviously this comeback was a mistake.  Sox claimed Chris Woodward off of waivers from the Mariners to add infield depth, watch out!  And they called up Junicha Tazawa, who will presumably take Smoltz's spot in the rotation until Wakefield returns.  He's pitched well in the minors this year, then again so did Smoltz.

The reason the media is flipping out about the Red Sox is because it's somewhat warranted.  Personally I think they'll be fine and will be in the thick of things when the dust settles.  BUT, this team that was thought to be so well built and so strong at the beginning of the season now has many glaring weaknesses.  They supposedly had 7 quality starting pitchers.  Well Smoltz is gone, Penny has been an average #5 starter at best and Buchholz has been even less than that.  So basically they have a very solid #1 and #2 and a #5 and 2 undetermined.  The bottom of their order is weak, Ortiz isn't what he once was (insert steroids joke here).  They have lack of depth in the infield AND the outfield with Lowrie, Bay, Drew, Baldelli all battling injuries.

So basically they could use another outfielder, another SS (unless Chris Woodward is the answer). and another starting pitcher seeing as how Lester and Beckett are the only sure things.  That's why people are freaking out.  They pretty much can't afford to lose any games Beckett and Lester pitch these days or else they face the real strong possibility of a long losing streak.

[tim_m]

^ You're right about the Sox pilferk


Yankees pitching was horrible yesterday, but that was covered by their hitting... They can't expect to score 13 every game, because we know how their bats can get streaky and go silent... So if/when that happens pitching had better improve!

But I do hope all this sox negativity really gets to them 

I agree on the pitching...but (aside from Joba) keep in mind you also faced the "underbelly" of our bullpen...well, almost: You didn't see Bruney.  

But you also didn't see Aceves, Hughes, or Mo. 

Joba was....inconsistent.  He was decent enough (3 runs in 5 innings isn't horrible...especially considering a lot of the Sox baserunners were walks!) and got big outs when he needed them, but he just could not get the ball into the strike zone.  I've heard, this morning, from both biased and unbiased reports that it seems like the ump was giving him a strike zone the size of a postage stamp.  I didn't notice that, last night, though....because there were times he wasn't hitting Posada's target.  That has nothing to do with the strike zone.   Nerves, maybe?  "Familiarity" (the sox have, with ONE exception, hit him pretty well)?  Just a bad night? I don't know.  Thankfully (if you're a Yanks fan) Smoltz made it irrelevant in one inning.

Tonight, I'd say it's advantage Sox.  Then again, last time we had Beckett vs AJ...we got a 16-11 game.  So go figure.  Yanks win tonight, I like their chances at 3 of 4.  But I just don't see them getting the W tonight.  We'll see.

I think a lot of Joba's problem last night was too much rest. He had 7 days in between starts and 40 minutes in between an inning. That can mess a pitcher up. A lot of pitchers don't do well on extra rest or when they have to sit too long. I expect him to be better next start.

[Loaded NightraiN]

Talk about a-rod not being clutch... 2 run shot in the bottom the 15th of a 0-0 game...

He's on his way Yankee haters!

[cotis]

they thought A Rod would deliver championships and he will never do that cause he is a choker.

If u are tied in the 9th or down 2 runs in the 9th, u can forget it.

Thanks for setting it up perfectly D.