2009 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[faldor]

Lee is a quality starter, don't get me wrong.  But he's nowhere near Roy Halladay's level and also is unproven in October, as I Sabathia.  That's why the package the Phils gave up wss nowhere near the rumored deals for Halladay.  That would've been a severe overpayment.

[faldor]

Washburn to the Tigers, done. Orlando Cabrera to Twins, probable.  Sox still talking to Padres about Adrian Gonzalez.  He's a great young inexpensive player who would cost a lot in terms of prospects.  I'd love for them to add him to the fold but they'd probably have to give up Clay, causing them to lean heavily on Smoltz, Penny, Wakefield, and eventually Dice K. That's a scary thought.  Plus what would happen with Lowell and Laroche?  5 guys to platoon at 1b/3b/dh?

[pilferk]

Washburn to the Tigers, done. Orlando Cabrera to Twins, probable.  Sox still talking to Padres about Adrian Gonzalez.  He's a great young inexpensive player who would cost a lot in terms of prospects.  I'd love for them to add him to the fold but they'd probably have to give up Clay, causing them to lean heavily on Smoltz, Penny, Wakefield, and eventually Dice K. That's a scary thought.  Plus what would happen with Lowell and Laroche?  5 guys to platoon at 1b/3b/dh?

If they get Gonzalez...Lowell would be the odd man out in terms of a fielding position. Youk would play 3rd every day, AG would play 1st every day.  Laroche might be part of the deal, but if not he'd be the backup guy (and he'd RARELY play since he's both an offensive and defensive downgrade for 1st).  It would be Lowell and Ortiz competing for the DH spot....and I gotta tell you, I think Lowell wins that battle as of today.  Which means Ortiz would likely be regulated to an occasional DH start, and mostly a pinch hitter.

Edit: I'm thinking the Yanks got nothing in the hopper right now...and they could REALLY use a #5 pitcher.  They need ONE guy to shore up that rotation.

[pilferk]

Reports are coming in that the asking price for AG is astronomical....equating it to 3x the asking price for Doc from the Jays.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Somebody tell me Andruw Jones wasn't on steroids. Only dude to ever go from a perennial 50hr hitter to batting 187 last year.

Andruw Jones just ate everything in sight last year.  He's doing better this year (SURPRISE!) now that he's playing somewhere other than L.A..

Fucking fat fuck is still on the payroll.

[fear the juggalo 2]

dont worry gary, jason shmidt is back. or how ever you spell his name. the legue better watch out, it's not everyday you see a 72 mph fastball. the change up has to be in the 30's right? but really we got some issues. why in the fuck is weaver not in the rotation? i honestly can throw harder than jason shitt.  btw, just saw jones jerseys at ross for $12.99.  thats about 13 bucks to much

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

dont worry gary, jason shmidt is back. or how ever you spell his name. the legue better watch out, it's not everyday you see a 72 mph fastball. the change up has to be in the 30's right? but really we got some issues. why in the fuck is weaver not in the rotation? i honestly can throw harder than jason shitt.  btw, just saw jones jerseys at ross for $12.99.  thats about 13 bucks to much

I heard that he's making his last start today.  If he makes 3 starts, the McCourts collect insurance $$$$$$$.

Are you going to any games next week?

[pilferk]

Looks like Victor Martinez from the Indians to the Sox for Masterson and a prospect.

Good pick up for the Sox...could make a difference for them, as they need offense.  NOT as "scary" as if the Sox picked up Doc, though.

[fear the juggalo 2]

i havent been to a game since gibsons hr ! no really, it's been a while. i've only seen manny once. gotta go soon.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

i havent been to a game since gibsons hr ! no really, it's been a while. i've only seen manny once. gotta go soon.

Dude, there are 4 games next week that have deals that will allow you into the reserve level for 9 bucks!

[sandman]

Lee is a quality starter, don't get me wrong.  But he's nowhere near Roy Halladay's level and also is unproven in October, as I Sabathia.  That's why the package the Phils gave up wss nowhere near the rumored deals for Halladay.  That would've been a severe overpayment.

yes, halladay is the better pitcher - he's prob the best in the league. but lee is far better than you gave him credit for in your original post. he IS worth great prospects, which is what the phils sent. and even with sending top prospects, the consensus is that this was highway robbery.

Lee is one of the top 10 SPs in the league IMO. he'd be the ace on several teams, and i can't think of any teams where he wouldn't be considered at least the #2.  

trust me, as someone who has watched most of Happ's starts this season, Happ is not in the same league as Cliff Lee right now. Happ probably wouldn't be one of our top 4 starters for the playoffs.

[fear the juggalo 2]

9 bucks huh? let me know when your gonna go.

[Mal Brossard]

Halladay is unproven in October as well.

The Phils got an absolute fucking STEAL on that trade.  Didn't even give up any of their top 3 prospects in it.  And he's not just a playoff rental either.  He's under contract for next year still.

Mark Shapiro shouldn't have a job by the end of the year.

[faldor]

Looks like Victor Martinez from the Indians to the Sox for Masterson and a prospect.

Good pick up for the Sox...could make a difference for them, as they need offense.  NOT as "scary" as if the Sox picked up Doc, though.

Yeah I like the deal.  I loved Masterson last year but he didn't seem to progress much this year.  He's young though, plenty of potential there.  I've heard some very good things about the LHP they gave up too, Hagadone.  So the Indians may have gotten some good value in return, though the Sox too were able to hold onto their top prospects.  Victor will improve the lineup and give needed rest to both Lowell and Varitek who are both well below 100%.  I think more often than not they'll play him at 1B and slide Youk to 3B, but I'm sure he'll catch a few days a week at least.  It'll be interesting to see if there's a dropoff in the pitching staff when Martinez catches, as you hear all the time how good Varitek is at calling a game.

Ortiz has been begging for a big bat to be added to the lineup since Manny left, he's got it now.  And is it possible this whole PED talk has refocussed David.  2 homers the last 2 nights, hope that's a sign of things to come.

Word is the Sox were the closest to obtaining Halladay.  Reports are they gave the most appealing offer but in the end it still wasn't enough.  And yeah I heard the Adrian Gonzalez asking price was out of this world.  The Sox also inquired and had discussions about Felix Hernandez.  That was a bit of a surprise.  Can't accuse Theo of not trying.

Cliff Lee had a great debut for the Phils.  He might tear it up in the NL after all.  I'm still not completely sold on him but he definitely makes the Phillies a whole lot better.  I still can't believe they won the World Series last year with Jamie Moyer and Brett Myers playing major roles.  That defies logic and reasoning.

[D]

dude, whats not to be sold about him?

he won 22 games and the AL Cy young last year for a shit Cleveland team

[faldor]

He's had plenty of subpar seasons before last year, some for good Cleveland teams.  He had ONE good year besides last year.  He had an awful year 2 years ago.  One Cy Young does not erase the bad seasons he had.  To my knowledge he hasn't performed at a high level under the bright lights of October.  So, those are some reasons I'm not sold.

[sandman]

Looks like Victor Martinez from the Indians to the Sox for Masterson and a prospect.

Good pick up for the Sox...could make a difference for them, as they need offense.  NOT as "scary" as if the Sox picked up Doc, though.

I still can't believe they won the World Series last year with Jamie Moyer and Brett Myers playing major roles.  That defies logic and reasoning.

difies logic? you red sox fans are all the same. 

it does NOT defy logic. it speaks volumes about how great the rest of the phils team actually is. phils had the...

- best offense.
- best defense (something that is often overlooked with this team and baseball in general).
- best bullpen (by far).
- best SP (hamels was one of the best throughout the season, by far the best in October).

when you have all that, you can get by with average #2-4 SPs.

speaking of hamels and the red sox, there was a "non-trade" back in 2003 that had a MAJOR effect on the phils and red sox and their championship seasons. in 2003, arizona was prepared to trade schilling to the phils for Hamels and Utley. luckily, the phils declined and he ended up going to the red sox. the rest is history.   

[Mal Brossard]

I have to say it again: When has Roy Halladay pitched in October?  He hasn't.  And no one made a big deal about it the way some of you are (or, one of you is) with Lee.

Lee's Philly debut: 9 IP, 4 H, 1 ER.  Convinced yet?  Granted, San Francisco's offense is about as impotent as Bob Dole, but it's still a great start.

How can you say he had bad years on some good teams?  In seasons the Indians didn't make the playoffs, he was 78-40.  That's a win percentage in the .600's, coming on non-playoff teams.  Good teams?  You're kidding, right?  You mean this organization that can't find its ass with two hands and a flashlight?  The one who decided to "rebuild" in 2002 upon the crest of 6 division championships in 7 seasons and has seen the playoffs once since, choking away a 3-1 series lead?  How are those GOOD teams?  Cleveland has been shit since the Wedge-Shapiro, or Wedgiro (Lithuanian for "struggling to reach mediocrity"), regime took over.  If Mark Shapiro still has a job at the end of this season then I'm done giving them any degree of support.

Mark Shapiro is a joke of a GM.  Period.

Lee's pickup by the Phils is better than the addition of Martinez by the Sox.  But the Martinez trade was better for the Indians (if you can really pick a winner in either of those ugly-ass deals).

Per ESPN, the Jays and Rangers had agreed on a deal for Halladay but he refused to lift his NTC.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

I have to say it again: When has Roy Halladay pitched in October?  He hasn't. 

I'm sure he would do just fine in the postseason.  By your reasoning, if you haven't pitched in the playoffs, you can't/don't deserve to pitch in the playoffs.

WTFF!!!?  (what the fucking fuck?)

[GypsySoul]

Give Toronto Alex "the postseason choker" Rodriquez for Halladay.

Though it's far from panic time, it still might be kinda nice for the Yankees bats to have a starting pitcher who can CONSISTENTLY go more than three innings.