2009 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[sandman]

whether or not A-Rod is the best player in baseball is obviously just a matter of opinion, and depends on how much weight you put on things like regular season production, stats, defense, leadership, clutch, etc.

personally, i don't think he's the best.

IF the yankess had made it to the world series this year, and Cole Hamels was on the mound holding a one run lead with the bases loaded and two outs, as a phillies fan i'd rather see A-Rod step to the plate than say Derek Jeter.

so i can't say he's the best when in the biggest of situations he tends to perform far below his norm. that counts alot for me. legends are made in october, not may.

[GeorgeSteele]

Good point, I suppose it could play out that way on average.  If there's one definitive metric for AL vs. NL pitching, I think it would be to compare NL hitters' stats in league play to their stats in interleague play (and the same for AL hitters).  I figure those have to exist, I'll post them if I can find anything. 

I thought the SAME thing...and went right to baseball-reference.com.  But I couldn't quickly find them....

Absolutely post them if you find 'em!

It was a painstaking process, but I think I was able to sort through the baseball-reference stats to get what I wanted.  I could post the various links, but it's not exactly laid out up front.

Anyway...

NL hitters' OPS in all games during 2008 was .744.  In interleague play it was .715. That suggests that NL hitters had more difficulty with AL pitchers and that AL pitchers were therefore better than NL pitchers in 2008.

AL hitters'  OPS in all games during 2008 was .756.  In interleage play it was .780.  So in 2008 AL hitters hit NL pitching better than they hit AL pitching.

I'm surprised, but I stand corrected.  At least for 2008, AL pitching was better than NL pitching.

Did I mention that I hate your parameters?  Oh wait, those were my parameters... 

[pilferk]

whether or not A-Rod is the best player in baseball is obviously just a matter of opinion, and depends on how much weight you put on things like regular season production, stats, defense, leadership, clutch, etc.

personally, i don't think he's the best.

IF the yankess had made it to the world series this year, and Cole Hamels was on the mound holding a one run lead with the bases loaded and two outs, as a phillies fan i'd rather see A-Rod step to the plate than say Derek Jeter.

so i can't say he's the best when in the biggest of situations he tends to perform far below his norm. that counts alot for me. legends are made in october, not may.

It's absolutely opinion....but I think you have to objectively say he's on ANYONE'S short list.  Top 5, definitely and top 3, probably.

That being said, I think you just defined "clutch", not "best".  Yours just feels like much to "narrow" a definition for me.  And the conversation sorta started with someone asking ME why I thought A-Rod was the overall best player in MLB. 

Jeter has proven he's one of the most "clutch" post-season hitters ever.

I don't think Jeter is remotely the best complete player in MLB.  Especially not now.

Here's Jeter's career "clutch" stats (just for the sake of "interesting"):

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=jeterde01#situa-clutc

Edit:  Also, I wanna say....for ME the preference for Jeter would be VERY situational.  You situation fits it...but man on 2nd, down 2...it's now a wash.

Man on 1st and 2nd, down 2 or more?  The preference suddenly swings to A-rod.  Man on 2nd and 3rd, down 2?  Swings back to Jeter.  More than 2? Back to A-Rod. I think that's the nature of the difference in their game:  Jeter can get to anything and turn it into a base hit.....A-rod can turn on anything and put it out of the park.  Finesse vs Power, ya know?

But it's a nice "dillema" to have when they're BOTH in your lineup!

[novemberparadise23]

Jeter in the clutch is second to none. He has slipped due to injury a little bit the past few years, but in an at bat with everything on the line there is still noone i would rather have up

[sandman]

whether or not A-Rod is the best player in baseball is obviously just a matter of opinion, and depends on how much weight you put on things like regular season production, stats, defense, leadership, clutch, etc.

personally, i don't think he's the best.

IF the yankess had made it to the world series this year, and Cole Hamels was on the mound holding a one run lead with the bases loaded and two outs, as a phillies fan i'd rather see A-Rod step to the plate than say Derek Jeter.

so i can't say he's the best when in the biggest of situations he tends to perform far below his norm. that counts alot for me. legends are made in october, not may.

It's absolutely opinion....but I think you have to objectively say he's on ANYONE'S short list.  Top 5, definitely and top 3, probably.

That being said, I think you just defined "clutch", not "best".  Yours just feels like much to "narrow" a definition for me.  And the conversation sorta started with someone asking ME why I thought A-Rod was the overall best player in MLB. 

Jeter has proven he's one of the most "clutch" post-season hitters ever.

I don't think Jeter is remotely the best complete player in MLB.  Especially not now.

Here's Jeter's career "clutch" stats (just for the sake of "interesting"):

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=jeterde01#situa-clutc

Edit:  Also, I wanna say....for ME the preference for Jeter would be VERY situational.  You situation fits it...but man on 2nd, down 2...it's now a wash.

Man on 1st and 2nd, down 2 or more?  The preference suddenly swings to A-rod.  Man on 2nd and 3rd, down 2?  Swings back to Jeter.  More than 2? Back to A-Rod. I think that's the nature of the difference in their game:  Jeter can get to anything and turn it into a base hit.....A-rod can turn on anything and put it out of the park.  Finesse vs Power, ya know?

But it's a nice "dillema" to have when they're BOTH in your lineup!

you may have missed my point....i don't think Jeter is better than A-Rod. i was just pointing out that performing in october is part of the equation. and in that part, A-Rod fails miserably.

and any STAT advantage he may have over some of the other great players, doesn't make up for the fact that he underperforms in October. he's never done it when it counts the most. season on the line, i wouldn't want to see him stepping to the plate if he was on my team.

and i'd have to look this up, but has he ever truly made any team better?

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

whether or not A-Rod is the best player in baseball is obviously just a matter of opinion, and depends on how much weight you put on things like regular season production, stats, defense, leadership, clutch, etc.

personally, i don't think he's the best.

IF the yankess had made it to the world series this year, and Cole Hamels was on the mound holding a one run lead with the bases loaded and two outs, as a phillies fan i'd rather see A-Rod step to the plate than say Derek Jeter.

so i can't say he's the best when in the biggest of situations he tends to perform far below his norm. that counts alot for me. legends are made in october, not may.

It's absolutely opinion....but I think you have to objectively say he's on ANYONE'S short list.  Top 5, definitely and top 3, probably.

That being said, I think you just defined "clutch", not "best".  Yours just feels like much to "narrow" a definition for me.  And the conversation sorta started with someone asking ME why I thought A-Rod was the overall best player in MLB. 

Jeter has proven he's one of the most "clutch" post-season hitters ever.

I don't think Jeter is remotely the best complete player in MLB.  Especially not now.

Here's Jeter's career "clutch" stats (just for the sake of "interesting"):

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=jeterde01#situa-clutc

Edit:  Also, I wanna say....for ME the preference for Jeter would be VERY situational.  You situation fits it...but man on 2nd, down 2...it's now a wash.

Man on 1st and 2nd, down 2 or more?  The preference suddenly swings to A-rod.  Man on 2nd and 3rd, down 2?  Swings back to Jeter.  More than 2? Back to A-Rod. I think that's the nature of the difference in their game:  Jeter can get to anything and turn it into a base hit.....A-rod can turn on anything and put it out of the park.  Finesse vs Power, ya know?

But it's a nice "dillema" to have when they're BOTH in your lineup!

you may have missed my point....i don't think Jeter is better than A-Rod. i was just pointing out that performing in october is part of the equation. and in that part, A-Rod fails miserably.

and any STAT advantage he may have over some of the other great players, doesn't make up for the fact that he underperforms in October. he's never done it when it counts the most. season on the line, i wouldn't want to see him stepping to the plate if he was on my team.

and i'd have to look this up, but has he ever truly made any team better?

If you want to read a book on the issue, go to the Joe Torre thread.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

whether or not A-Rod is the best player in baseball is obviously just a matter of opinion, and depends on how much weight you put on things like regular season production, stats, defense, leadership, clutch, etc.

personally, i don't think he's the best.

IF the yankess had made it to the world series this year, and Cole Hamels was on the mound holding a one run lead with the bases loaded and two outs, as a phillies fan i'd rather see A-Rod step to the plate than say Derek Jeter.

so i can't say he's the best when in the biggest of situations he tends to perform far below his norm. that counts alot for me. legends are made in october, not may.

Rodriguez has received the nickname The Cooler among players because of the perceived tendency for teams to turn cold when he joins them and hot when he leaves and because of his negative influence on team chemistry.

[novemberparadise23]

Cant wait for pitchers and catchers to report. As a huge yanks fan i can't wait to see if all this off seasons activity will pay off. Also its just fucking freezing in New York and i want the warmth of spring

[pilferk]

I'm waiting for the single game tickets to go on sale....not even an announcement as to when yet!

[pilferk]

So...hold on a sec:

The Dodgers offer Manny 1 year, 25 million.

He turns it down.

After the latest AP (and by that, I mean Albert Pujols) report that NOBODY wants to sign Manny?

Man, if this goes as badly for Manny as it LOOKS like it might......is Boras gonna be in trouble?  After the may he mangled the A-rod situation last year (and no, I'm not giving A-Rod a pass...he shares some blame too) and the way he handled Manny last year and into this year........that's a couple of pretty big blunders, IMHO.

Manny needs to realize that...after the way he "quit" on the Sox last year, teams are going to do whatever it takes to force him into being "good Manny" and not "Manny being Manny".   One year deals do just that....because you're forever in a contract year, which means...it seems...Manny is forever motivated to put up monster stats.  Yes, the economy sucks.  Yes, everyone is worried.  But IMHO, at this point, the only person Manny has to blame for the derth of offers is...Manny (and, in complicity, Boras).

He should've taken the Dodgers deal.....because I'm not sure he's going to get MUCH better from anyone else.  By all accounts, the Dodgers and Giants are the only ones even sniffing around.  Is he REALLY going to sit for awhile, until someone decides they need him during the season (and you KNOW someone would)?  I'm skeptical he would...but we may get a chance to see...

[pilferk]

YOWZA:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28992773/

I wonder what they'd name the new stadium, then?  Would they sell the naming rights AGAIN?  In THIS economy?  Or would they just name it themselves...

[faldor]

So...hold on a sec:

The Dodgers offer Manny 1 year, 25 million.

He turns it down.

After the latest AP (and by that, I mean Albert Pujols) report that NOBODY wants to sign Manny?

Man, if this goes as badly for Manny as it LOOKS like it might......is Boras gonna be in trouble?  After the may he mangled the A-rod situation last year (and no, I'm not giving A-Rod a pass...he shares some blame too) and the way he handled Manny last year and into this year........that's a couple of pretty big blunders, IMHO.

Manny needs to realize that...after the way he "quit" on the Sox last year, teams are going to do whatever it takes to force him into being "good Manny" and not "Manny being Manny".   One year deals do just that....because you're forever in a contract year, which means...it seems...Manny is forever motivated to put up monster stats.  Yes, the economy sucks.  Yes, everyone is worried.  But IMHO, at this point, the only person Manny has to blame for the derth of offers is...Manny (and, in complicity, Boras).

He should've taken the Dodgers deal.....because I'm not sure he's going to get MUCH better from anyone else.  By all accounts, the Dodgers and Giants are the only ones even sniffing around.  Is he REALLY going to sit for awhile, until someone decides they need him during the season (and you KNOW someone would)?  I'm skeptical he would...but we may get a chance to see...

Don't forget how Boras mishandled the Varitek situation too.  The Sox offered him arbitration which would've paid him 10 million for ONE year.  They declined that offer thinking they could find more money for more years.  In the end Varitek signed with the Sox for ONE year, FIVE million, with a team option of 3 million for a second year.  So in essence, he'll probably get 2 years, 8 million.  So he'll make less in 2 years than he would've in 1.

As for Manny.  I highly doubt he'll receive a better offer than 25 million per year.  At this point, IF he gets a multi year deal I'd be surprised if he gets much more than 15 million per.  It's great to see that his actions from last year are actually coming back to bite him in the ass.  If he just behaved and played the damn game they way he's capable in Boston he'd probably be getting 40 million for these next 2 seasons at the very least.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Motherfucker is gonna sign with the Giants for sure! 

[freedom78]

Report: A-Rod tested positive in 2003

According to a report by Sports Illustrated, Alex Rodriguez tested positive for anabolic steroids in 2003, when he was with the Texas Rangers and won the AL home run title and MVP award.

According to the report, which was posted Saturday morning on SI.com, sources told the publication that Rodriguez was on a list of 104 players who tested positive that year, when Major League Baseball conducted tests to see if mandatory random drug testing was needed.

In 2003, there were no penalties for a positive result.

Rodriguez, reached at a Miami gym for comment by Sports Illustrated, said, "You'll have to talk to the union."

Asked if there were an explanation for the positive test result, Rodriguez told SI: "I'm not saying anything."

Sports Illustrated also reported that it left phone messages for players' union executive director Donald Fehr, which were not returned.

Major League Baseball, in an agreement with the MLBPA, wanted to see if random drug testing should be implemented starting in 2004.

More than 5 percent of players in the majors tested positive in the '03 survey, and mandatory testing was implemented -- including provisions for penalties -- in 2004.

Scott Boras, Rodriguez's agent, did not immediately return calls from ESPN.com seeking comment.

Michael Weiner, general counsel for the players' union, declined to comment, and said he did not know if the union would have any comment Saturday.

[faldor]

Report: A-Rod tested positive in 2003

According to a report by Sports Illustrated, Alex Rodriguez tested positive for anabolic steroids in 2003, when he was with the Texas Rangers and won the AL home run title and MVP award.

According to the report, which was posted Saturday morning on SI.com, sources told the publication that Rodriguez was on a list of 104 players who tested positive that year, when Major League Baseball conducted tests to see if mandatory random drug testing was needed.

In 2003, there were no penalties for a positive result.

Rodriguez, reached at a Miami gym for comment by Sports Illustrated, said, "You'll have to talk to the union."

Asked if there were an explanation for the positive test result, Rodriguez told SI: "I'm not saying anything."

Sports Illustrated also reported that it left phone messages for players' union executive director Donald Fehr, which were not returned.

Major League Baseball, in an agreement with the MLBPA, wanted to see if random drug testing should be implemented starting in 2004.

More than 5 percent of players in the majors tested positive in the '03 survey, and mandatory testing was implemented -- including provisions for penalties -- in 2004.

Scott Boras, Rodriguez's agent, did not immediately return calls from ESPN.com seeking comment.

Michael Weiner, general counsel for the players' union, declined to comment, and said he did not know if the union would have any comment Saturday.

While this is my favorite story of the year to date, I'm not gonna get too excited about it.  Although if I were to make it to a Yanks/Sox game this year, you're damn right I'm slinging some sort of steroid remark his way.  But, this again could just be the tip of the iceberg.  While I'd love to deny it and defend it, who's to say Manny, Ortiz, or a number of Red Sox didn't use roids in the past?

[tim_m]

Report: A-Rod tested positive in 2003

According to a report by Sports Illustrated, Alex Rodriguez tested positive for anabolic steroids in 2003, when he was with the Texas Rangers and won the AL home run title and MVP award.

According to the report, which was posted Saturday morning on SI.com, sources told the publication that Rodriguez was on a list of 104 players who tested positive that year, when Major League Baseball conducted tests to see if mandatory random drug testing was needed.

In 2003, there were no penalties for a positive result.

Rodriguez, reached at a Miami gym for comment by Sports Illustrated, said, "You'll have to talk to the union."

Asked if there were an explanation for the positive test result, Rodriguez told SI: "I'm not saying anything."

Sports Illustrated also reported that it left phone messages for players' union executive director Donald Fehr, which were not returned.

Major League Baseball, in an agreement with the MLBPA, wanted to see if random drug testing should be implemented starting in 2004.

More than 5 percent of players in the majors tested positive in the '03 survey, and mandatory testing was implemented -- including provisions for penalties -- in 2004.

Scott Boras, Rodriguez's agent, did not immediately return calls from ESPN.com seeking comment.

Michael Weiner, general counsel for the players' union, declined to comment, and said he did not know if the union would have any comment Saturday.

While this is my favorite story of the year to date, I'm not gonna get too excited about it.  Although if I were to make it to a Yanks/Sox game this year, you're damn right I'm slinging some sort of steroid remark his way.  But, this again could just be the tip of the iceberg.  While I'd love to deny it and defend it, who's to say Manny, Ortiz, or a number of Red Sox didn't use roids in the past?

Supposedly the government has the whole list of players who tested positive in 03 when they were just doing survey testing. All of these were supposed to never get out. I'm sure its just a matter of time before some idiot spills the rest of the list to the press. MLB dropped the ball on this one the results should've been destroyed. If i was the union i would be PISSED right now since they had an agreement that these results would never be made public. I'm not even sure if the players tested in 03 were even told they tested positive.

[faldor]

I'm pretty sure I read on the bottom line on ESPN that A-Rod was aware that he had tested positive.

[tim_m]

I'm pretty sure I read on the bottom line on ESPN that A-Rod was aware that he had tested positive.

Oh ok, in one of the video interviews on espn's site the interviewer asked if A-Rod was aware and he didn't seem to know. The last one i watched said there is 103 other names on that list. I wonder who's name will come out next.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Doesn't matter.  He still tested positive.

[tim_m]

Doesn't matter.  He still tested positive.

Well yeah i was just not sure if he was aware or not. I didn't know if the 2003 survey test results were told to the players who tested positive.