2009 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[cotis]

Im still not sold on the Yankee pitching though......... Those bats will cool off in October...... can the Yanks staff hold teams down?

Team ERA = 4.34 (equal to Boston's).  The White Sox, Rangers, and Detroit's are slightly better (Seattle's is MUCH better, but no chance they see the playoffs), better by around 0.1 to 0.2.

The Yanks ERA in the 2nd half has actually been even better than that at 3.96.

C.C. and Andy have been stellar, especially lately.  I'm not too worried about them. 

AJ has been inconsistent (and in some cases unlucky).  He looked pretty good after the 2nd, yesterday...hopefully he's putting it back together.  He just needs to get that fastball to dive low and away...and he got that going after the 2nd.  Lets see if he can carry it through the next start.

  Joba is the great unknown...and he'd see a max of 2 starts in the post season, I think. Game 4 in the ALCS and game 4 of the WS (assuming they make it to either).

The biggest question facing the Yanks right now is "Who is your game 2 starter."  I'm not sure, right now, which direction I'd go.  I think I'm leaning toward Andy, because he's a wily vetran pitcher and he's a nice "contrast" to C.C., which might mess with batter's timing.

And we'll have to see about Yanks bats cooling off.  If they get home field through the playoffs...that's going to be a HUGE advantage for them.  I don't see a whole lot of AL pitching staffs that really scare me past their #2 guy, either.   I think, pitcher for pitcher, we match up pretty well with the potential playoff teams.

AJ also pitched very well against texas. He just made that one bad pitch after the two walks. It seems like he just isn't really comfortable pitching in a scoreless or close game lately. Once he had that huge lead last night he was lights out. A lot of his problem is he is more of a thrower then a pitcher. He never really learned to pitch. They were talking about it on the mlb network broadcast last night.

Game 2 starter for me in any series is absolutely Andy Pettitte especially if we should lose a close game 1 pitcher duel. He has historically been a stopper a guy that comes up big when we need a win.

Joba is a bit concerning. He was doing just fine for the most part until they started screwing with him. I hope he can get back on track the last month and maybe be the no.3 starter in the playoffs. If not my choice would be Mitre. He has consistently gotten better as he went on. His second to last start was great until he took the liner off the arm. In his last start he was victimized by embarrassing defense. That start was not his fault. I was embarrassed to be even watching that game. So many errors and mental lapses. I can only imagine the chewing out they got from Girardi after that one.

Leave the thread now. I am a Yankee fan and am ashamed you call yourself one.

You are telling me that instead of a CC-Andy-AJ rotation you would have SERGIO fuckin' MITRE in there? Sorry but no.

I take AJ over Mitre anyday. Yeah he may walk 8 guys, but he could also give up 2 hits and strike out 14.

*edit* --however if AJ pitches with Jorge I would probably take Mitre. 

[tim_m]

Im still not sold on the Yankee pitching though......... Those bats will cool off in October...... can the Yanks staff hold teams down?

Team ERA = 4.34 (equal to Boston's).  The White Sox, Rangers, and Detroit's are slightly better (Seattle's is MUCH better, but no chance they see the playoffs), better by around 0.1 to 0.2.

The Yanks ERA in the 2nd half has actually been even better than that at 3.96.

C.C. and Andy have been stellar, especially lately.  I'm not too worried about them. 

AJ has been inconsistent (and in some cases unlucky).  He looked pretty good after the 2nd, yesterday...hopefully he's putting it back together.  He just needs to get that fastball to dive low and away...and he got that going after the 2nd.  Lets see if he can carry it through the next start.

  Joba is the great unknown...and he'd see a max of 2 starts in the post season, I think. Game 4 in the ALCS and game 4 of the WS (assuming they make it to either).

The biggest question facing the Yanks right now is "Who is your game 2 starter."  I'm not sure, right now, which direction I'd go.  I think I'm leaning toward Andy, because he's a wily vetran pitcher and he's a nice "contrast" to C.C., which might mess with batter's timing.

And we'll have to see about Yanks bats cooling off.  If they get home field through the playoffs...that's going to be a HUGE advantage for them.  I don't see a whole lot of AL pitching staffs that really scare me past their #2 guy, either.   I think, pitcher for pitcher, we match up pretty well with the potential playoff teams.

AJ also pitched very well against texas. He just made that one bad pitch after the two walks. It seems like he just isn't really comfortable pitching in a scoreless or close game lately. Once he had that huge lead last night he was lights out. A lot of his problem is he is more of a thrower then a pitcher. He never really learned to pitch. They were talking about it on the mlb network broadcast last night.

Game 2 starter for me in any series is absolutely Andy Pettitte especially if we should lose a close game 1 pitcher duel. He has historically been a stopper a guy that comes up big when we need a win.

Joba is a bit concerning. He was doing just fine for the most part until they started screwing with him. I hope he can get back on track the last month and maybe be the no.3 starter in the playoffs. If not my choice would be Mitre. He has consistently gotten better as he went on. His second to last start was great until he took the liner off the arm. In his last start he was victimized by embarrassing defense. That start was not his fault. I was embarrassed to be even watching that game. So many errors and mental lapses. I can only imagine the chewing out they got from Girardi after that one.

Leave the thread now. I am a Yankee fan and am ashamed you call yourself one.

You are telling me that instead of a CC-Andy-AJ rotation you would have SERGIO fuckin' MITRE in there? Sorry but no.

I take AJ over Mitre anyday. Yeah he may walk 8 guys, but he could also give up 2 hits and strike out 14.

*edit* --however if AJ pitches with Jorge I would probably take Mitre. 

No, no. I'm not saying exclude Burnett that would be silly but after the way he's pitched in 7 of his last 8 starts i wouldn't feel too comfortable with him very high in that postseason rotation. You know his catcher would be Posada too. You don't really think Girardi would exclude a bat in the lineup like that just cause Burnett is pitching do you? That would be taking 20 home runs and over 70 rbi's out of the lineup. The way Joba Burnett and Mitre have pitched the last month or so its pretty much a crapshoot who you put 3-4 in the rotation. They've either been hot or cold and mostly cold. I wish i could feel more confident that Burnett would do the latter and give up 2 hits and strikeout 14 but i can't.

[cotis]

When AJ goes 5 innings and gives up 6 runs with Posada, then the next game goes 6 innings with 1 run with Molina -- I don't care about Jorge's bat. He needs a day off every once in awhile, and Burnett and Molina have something going. I know people will disagree, but look at the numbers. There is obviously something different, maybe his mental condition going into Posada starts isn't good or whatever. But I'll take Molina going 1-4 with a sac fly and Burnett going 7 strong innings over Posada going 2-4 with a 2B and HR and Burnett going 5 innings and 6 runs, anyday of the week. I think Joe has to really explore this one -- there is definitely some kind of issue. Despite what you have heard Michael Kay saying and how he has brainwashed you that "they will just have to work it out" -- there really is an issue and it needs to be addressed. If it means Jorge sitting every 4/5 days, so be it. With the way the Yanks are playing now they can gamble like they have with AJ/Posada but I think when it comes down to it, Joe will have to make the RIGHT decision and put Molina behind the plate. Gives him a BIG bat to come off the bench late in the game if it is close.

As for his last couple starts excluding last night...

09/01/09 -- 5.1 IP, 6 ER, 2 BB, 2 K, ND
08/27/09 -- 6.0 IP, 3 ER, 3 BB, 12 K, L
08/22/09 -- 5.0 IP, 9 ER, 2 BB, 6 K, L
08/17/09 -- 8.0 IP, 3 ER, 2 BB, 5 K, L
08/12/09 -- 6.0 IP, 3 ER, 2 BB, 7 L, ND
08/07/09 -- 7.2 IP, 0 ER, 6 BB, 6 K, ND
08/01/09 -- 4.2 IP, 7 ER, 2 BB, 4 K, L

I count three bad starts (8/1...8/22...9/1). He was 0-2 there. Counting all the other starts he was 0-4 with 3 ND. When you give up three runs, with the offense the Yankees have -- there is no way you should loose those games. The offense had off nights those nights. Easily over that span I could have seen AJ go 4-3 if the offense had scored some runs for him.  He hasn't pitched TERRIBLY as Kay and a few other people have said, he just had a few rough games.

He will be fine when it matters in October.

[tim_m]

I sure hope you're right that he will be ok come October. You're right there is definitely some kinda issue. I'm not sure what it is hopefully it can be figured out so that it doesn't matter who's behind the plate. There was a similar issue with Clemens and Posada and they eventually worked it out so hopefully Burnett and Posada can.

[Falcon]

Guys, from an outsiders perspective - your Yanks will breeze through the playoffs and be favored against whomever they play in the World Series..

Quickly..

Burnett and Posada just don't work well together, numbers don't lie.  

Chamberlain??  Maybe the most mishandled pitcher in recent history.  I feel sorry for the kid.

A number 2 starter for the playoffs??  Andy all the way..

On another front..

Did anyone else catch the horseshit move by Fielder and the Brewers after his game winning (I'll NEVER say walk off..) homer against the Giants??  

Classless/bush league manuever, can't wait til those 2 teams meet again.  

Prince better get his crops dusted - not cool.

[cotis]

Guys, from an outsiders perspective - your Yanks will breeze through the playoffs and be favored against whomever they play in the World Series..

Quickly..

Burnett and Posada just don't work well together, numbers don't lie.  

Chamberlain??  Maybe the most mishandled pitcher in recent history.  I feel sorry for the kid.

A number 2 starter for the playoffs??  Andy all the way..

On another front..

Did anyone else catch the horseshit move by Fielder and the Brewers after his game winning (I'll NEVER say walk off..) homer against the Giants??  

Classless/bush league manuever, can't wait til those 2 teams meet again.  

Prince better get his crops dusted - not cool.

Joba needs to be put in the rotation, for good. Let him be. Let him start 33 games or whatever a full season amounts to, and pitch close to 200 innings. Let him go and figure it out himself, see if he can last. So far all this holding back, in my opinion, has "stunted his growth" so to speak. Yes they are protecting his arm by only allowing him to pitch x amount of innings a year. But he also will never feel what it is like to throw 125 pitches, be able to go that extra mile to get through that last inning. He will also never learn how to pitch without his best stuff everyday. Yankee fans, I admit I was like this, want to see his 100mph fast ball blazing up the radar gun every fastball he throws. Due to throwing more innings, he won't top at 100mph again (my opinion). He has to learn to throw a mid-90's fastball and get hitters with his breaking stuff (ex. - his sick slider). Next year I really hope they stretch him out a little, let him start 30 games and see what he truly has. I think he has potential to be great, especially if he learns to pitch with what he's got.

As for the Fielder thing, he better wear that new helmet for the next couple games. Any team that is showed up like that will be, no doubt, wanting to send a message his next at-bat. Maybe not around the DOME but somewhere to send a message. I admit, it was funny to see and very creative that it was all choreographed like that with everyone taking part. Yes I believe it was bush league, but it was still neat. Prince, be prepared to be dusted, as Falcon so perfectly said.

[Falcon]

Albert and Holliday go deep and do in the Brewers again tonight..

Keep your shirts tucked in choreographers, the baseball Gods have spoken.

Karma's a fuckin' bitch.

[pilferk]

No, no. I'm not saying exclude Burnett that would be silly but after the way he's pitched in 7 of his last 8 starts i wouldn't feel too comfortable with him very high in that postseason rotation. You know his catcher would be Posada too. You don't really think Girardi would exclude a bat in the lineup like that just cause Burnett is pitching do you? That would be taking 20 home runs and over 70 rbi's out of the lineup. The way Joba Burnett and Mitre have pitched the last month or so its pretty much a crapshoot who you put 3-4 in the rotation. They've either been hot or cold and mostly cold. I wish i could feel more confident that Burnett would do the latter and give up 2 hits and strikeout 14 but i can't.

You could always DH Posada if AJ is pitching (so long as it's not in an NL park...which would be another issue in pitching AJ in game 3 of the WS).

AJ and Posada have been hit or miss.  They've had GREAT starts as battery mates, good starts as battery mates, and some odd ones.  Girardi's point is "Nobody gets a personal catcher".  I get that, from a team stability standpoint.  You don't want to start making exceptions for guys in the clubhouse. It sends the wrong message.

But once the playoffs start, I say throw Molina or Cervelli out there because, at that point, it's about winning #27.  And, IMHO, that might just give you the best chance to win.  We'll see how AJ and Posada do the rest of September...maybe I'll feel differently in a month.

[pilferk]

Joba needs to be put in the rotation, for good. Let him be. Let him start 33 games or whatever a full season amounts to, and pitch close to 200 innings. Let him go and figure it out himself, see if he can last. So far all this holding back, in my opinion, has "stunted his growth" so to speak. Yes they are protecting his arm by only allowing him to pitch x amount of innings a year. But he also will never feel what it is like to throw 125 pitches, be able to go that extra mile to get through that last inning. He will also never learn how to pitch without his best stuff everyday. Yankee fans, I admit I was like this, want to see his 100mph fast ball blazing up the radar gun every fastball he throws. Due to throwing more innings, he won't top at 100mph again (my opinion). He has to learn to throw a mid-90's fastball and get hitters with his breaking stuff (ex. - his sick slider). Next year I really hope they stretch him out a little, let him start 30 games and see what he truly has. I think he has potential to be great, especially if he learns to pitch with what he's got.

I agree, right up until I don't.

Here's the thing...there is some pretty substantial data that suggests that if a young pitcher pitches more than 40% - 50% more innings than they did the previous season, they end up:
1) Getting hurt in the following season
2) shortening their career substantially

Most guys work all that out in the minors.  They're brought along slowly.  And when Joba was in the pen, it wasn't an issue.  But when you bring him back to the starting rotation...the yanks are looking out for the organization, and are looking at Joba as an asset.  They don't want to overwork him this year to lose him next year, or to shorten his career with them.  They really do look at this kid as a possible #1, long term.   Right or wrong, they're going to treat him with kid gloves for now.

He'll get to do ALL th things you mention....next year.  All those things, which I agree he needs to learn how to do, will come (hopefully).  Next year, given his innings limit THIS year, he'll be expected to go 200+.  They won't coddle him with 80 pitch pitch counts.  I agree, all the futzing this year has screwed him up.  He finally hit a groove after the AS break, and they yanked the rug out from under hime.    But this is ONE year of what is hopefully a long career for this kid, and the Yanks want to do everything they can to make sure that's the case.

[Falcon]

Lots of good points on Chamberlain both ways fellas, it's really just too bad he's even a story at this point. 

On my Cardinal front, completed the brooming of the Brewers today in fine fashion.  Wainwright goes 7 shutout innings to become the majors first 18 game winner and El Hombre hits two more dingers running his total to 47. 

Another day at the office for those 2..

[GypsySoul]

D E R E K !!!!!!!! 

[tim_m]

Jeter ties Gehrig hit mark
Associated Press

NEW YORK -- Derek Jeter has tied the New York Yankees record for hits held by Lou Gehrig.

Jeter singled in the seventh inning for his third hit Wednesday night against Tampa Bay, matching Gehrig with 2,721 hits in a Yankees uniform.

After entering the game in an 0-for-12 slump, his longest hitless stretch this season, Jeter broke out of the rut with a bunt single toward third base leading off the bottom of the first inning.

With cameras flashing all around Yankee Stadium on every pitch to Jeter, he grounded out in the third inning against Rays starter Jeff Niemann and drove a ground-rule double to straightaway center in the fifth.

On his first chance to tie Gehrig, Jeter grounded a single to right field.


Contratulations Derek Jeter! It couldn't have happened to a more deserving classy guy who loves and respects the game and plays it right.

[cotis]

Lets see if he can pass him in his 4th at-bat!

[tim_m]

I wish he did it in the 4th at-bat but it wasn't to be. He will surely get it in the next series against baltimore.

[GypsySoul]

How poetic .....

Pettitte on the mound ... Posada catching ... Mariano closing the game when Derek breaks the record!!! 

[tim_m]

How poetic .....

Pettitte on the mound ... Posada catching ... Mariano closing the game when Derek breaks the record!!! 

That would be perfect doing it with the guys he came up with in the game. I think he will do it tonight.

[Loaded NightraiN]

How poetic .....

Pettitte on the mound ... Posada catching ... Mariano closing the game when Derek breaks the record!!! 

That would be perfect doing it with the guys he came up with in the game. I think he will do it tonight.

I bet you 4 Tickets to an upcoming GNR show(of my choice), Round Trip Air (First Class), and a 2 night 4-Star hotel that he will NOT get it tonight

[tim_m]

How poetic .....

Pettitte on the mound ... Posada catching ... Mariano closing the game when Derek breaks the record!!! 

That would be perfect doing it with the guys he came up with in the game. I think he will do it tonight.

I bet you 4 Tickets to an upcoming GNR show(of my choice), Round Trip Air (First Class), and a 2 night 4-Star hotel that he will NOT get it tonight

Haha oops i forgot its an off day. Odd to have a off day right in the middle of the homestand. I would bet on him getting it very next game though.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

How poetic .....

Pettitte on the mound ... Posada catching ... Mariano closing the game when Derek breaks the record!!! 

That would be perfect doing it with the guys he came up with in the game. I think he will do it tonight.

I miss Tino Martinez, Cone, Brosius, and Paulie.

I hope those true Yankees are in attendance when Derek breaks the record.

[freedom78]

They should put him on waivers...don't wanna inflate his ego with this record.