Billboard Singles Review: Better

[Bodhi]

Something that sounds like shit (mixed too loud etc.), shouldn't that be labeled overproduced? Meaning, they tried too hard to make it sound great and ended up with shit.... 




/jarmo

 I always enjoy your subtle(and sometimes blatant) jabs at Metallica...

[loretian]

There's a lot of stuff going on in Better.    Some people like their songs simple, and easy to appreciate on the first listen.  Those songs, for me, tend to be the ones that I only listen for a short time.  After probably hundreds of listens to Better, the song has not grown old and I still enjoy it.

Plus, the melody of Better is immediately catchy, so you get the best of both worlds.    But, for some, all the complexities in sounds detract, even as for the rest of us, they enhance and increase the enjoyment we get from the song.

[reed2009]

this is all good news and the review was somewhat positive.......but do you think this will clear the way for the video to appear?

[Black Betty]

Hopefully something will happen soon. At least Billboard is still talking about it.

[D]

seems everytime billboard comments on something, something else happens.

[LunsJail]

Not the actual sound, loudness, compression, etc. of the song.  When I think of overproduced, I think 80's synthesizers with fake ass sounding drums, not Better.

I know it's used as a way to describe something that's apparently too polished.


My point was just that it's getting thrown around to label anything that doesn't sound like it was made in a garage over the weekend and mixed and mastered by some engineer suffering from bad hearing.




/jarmo

Very true. I guess I consider overproduced to be something that has had the edges polished off (especially on the guitars) and that definitely isn't true of Better.  It sounds good and edgy at the same time.

[oldgunsfan]

Nice review.


I just don't get the "overproduced" thing.

It doesn't sound like shit. So shouldn't it be produced just enough?

Something that sounds like shit (mixed too loud etc.), shouldn't that be labeled overproduced? Meaning, they tried too hard to make it sound great and ended up with shit.... 


It seems like anything that doesn't sound like nostalgia flavored garage rock is "overproduced". 

/jarmo

they may mean there are about 20-30 tracks when the song was mixed

[western_chaos]

Yes. Good Review. It's not over-produced at all lol.

Billboard usually has note-worthy reviews, but not in this case.

[marknroses]

I never really cared for Better from the studio.
However, this is the best LIVE new Guns N' Roses song.

A live performance release from Rock Am Ring would have really felt good for me. I think it's a bit more stripped down live than in the studio and therefore I am in the camp that the song was overproduced.

Nonetheless a great song.

MW

[falungong69]

A live performance release from Rock Am Ring would have really felt good for me. I think it's a bit more stripped down live than in the studio and therefore I am in the camp that the song was overproduced.

quite simply, you are wrong.  this song is not overproduced.  jarmo already explained why it is not overproduced.  go read his post again, man.  it was spot on and he said it better than i could.

[gunns1]

A live performance release from Rock Am Ring would have really felt good for me. I think it's a bit more stripped down live than in the studio and therefore I am in the camp that the song was overproduced.

quite simply, you are wrong.  this song is not overproduced.  jarmo already explained why it is not overproduced.  go read his post again, man.  it was spot on and he said it better than i could.

how can anyone say Better is overproduced?
compare Better with a song like Oh My God,

I like Oh My God, its one of my favourites, but to say Better is overproduced, you have to be fucking kidding me

[wells]

if the world would use complex for overproduced I would also say it is overproduced  ... chinese is oversimple 3 chord song, better is overproduced, blah, blah ... blah, blah ...

they just need to fill XX lines of text!




-velimir

[Is he struggling?]

Songs that have lot of different things going on, like those on Chinese Democracy, are made or broken by the quality of the sound mix. In my opinion, Chinese Democracy's mixing and mastering is pretty astounding, as you can hear every sound, riff, scream and fart clearly, and nothing gets lost. For me, this puts it in the league of other so called 'overporduced' classic records like the early Queen albums, Pet Sounds, Sgt Pepper's  or the old motown singles. If the mixing and mastering was all wrong, Chinese Democracy would be a cacophonous din like, for example, Oasis' 'Be Here Now' album, or even 'Oh My God'.

So big love to Axl, Caram, Chris, Andy Wallace and Bob Ludwig 

[ToonGuns]

Nice review.


I just don't get the "overproduced" thing.

It doesn't sound like shit. So shouldn't it be produced just enough?

Something that sounds like shit (mixed too loud etc.), shouldn't that be labeled overproduced? Meaning, they tried too hard to make it sound great and ended up with shit.... 


It seems like anything that doesn't sound like nostalgia flavored garage rock is "overproduced". 



/jarmo

"Production" doesn't just relate to the sound of music - how loud it is, how quiet it is, what the mix is like etc...

Production also relates to the arrangement of the song, the instruments used, structure of the sound - everything! That is what producers do - they work on songs, for example changing a guitar for a piano, or shortening a verse, or changing the bridge etc. I think this is what the reviewer is referring to - the song is overproduced because it contains a lot of instruments and sounds from the falsetto drum loop intro to the contrast between BH and Robins solo.

That said - I LOVE THIS SONG!

[Dead N' Bloated]

Can you buy an actual cd single of this yet?


 

[Skunk]

Songs that have lot of different things going on, like those on Chinese Democracy, are made or broken by the quality of the sound mix. In my opinion, Chinese Democracy's mixing and mastering is pretty astounding, as you can hear every sound, riff, scream and fart clearly, and nothing gets lost. For me, this puts it in the league of other so called 'overporduced' classic records like the early Queen albums, Pet Sounds, Sgt Pepper's  or the old motown singles. If the mixing and mastering was all wrong, Chinese Democracy would be a cacophonous din like, for example, Oasis' 'Be Here Now' album, or even 'Oh My God'.

So big love to Axl, Caram, Chris, Andy Wallace and Bob Ludwig 

Great post! 

There's so much about Chinese Democracy that screams "classic" to me, and that's definitely part of it. When i find myself thinking of something to compare it to i have a hard time thinking of anything remotely recent. This album has mainstream appeal (meaning the songs are catchy as hell), but is also a full-length work of art in a lot of big ways.

More on topic, Better is an astounding song. It represents what this album is about as well as what this band was and is about. It rocks it moves it grooves, the words grab you and the guitars grab you. It has vocals and solos you can't ignore, a melody that sticks in your head, and words that engage... and it does all that and still wraps itself up just under the 5 minute mark.

[Naltav]

Nice review.


I just don't get the "overproduced" thing.

It doesn't sound like shit. So shouldn't it be produced just enough?

Something that sounds like shit (mixed too loud etc.), shouldn't that be labeled overproduced? Meaning, they tried too hard to make it sound great and ended up with shit.... 




It seems like anything that doesn't sound like nostalgia flavored garage rock is "overproduced". 



/jarmo

My take on the whole "overproduced"-thing:  I think it just comes down to preference. If the song was stripped down to just two guitars, bass, drums and vocals (one track of each), it would in many people's mind still be a kick ass song.

Me, I love the fact that CD is an album with melodies and riffs that grab you from the start. But still, after fifty spins, you keep hearing new stuff all the time!

If Guns had had the money and time to record whatever they wanted in '87, Appetite would probably still sound great, but totally different. November Rain and Don't Cry would probably be included on the album.

Come to think of it; bring on the re-recorded Appetite!!   

It's like decorating your house for Christmas. Houses in Scandinavia are (in my view) nicely decorated, but in US they are over-decorated!   

 

[jarmo]

They could've shot the Godfather with one single hand held camera.

It would be the same story and everything, but not the same movie.


Same goes with music.

A lot of great songs are like that. You could strip them down and they'd still be great, just not the same.

So why should people complain about them being "overproduced" in the first place?



/jarmo

[LunsJail]

Can you buy an actual cd single of this yet?


 

I'm not even sure they manufacture those anymore.  Only digital singles.

[*Timothy*]

Can you buy an actual cd single of this yet?


 

I'm not even sure they manufacture those anymore.  Only digital singles.

Some Artist still do the cd single route.