Billboard Singles Review: Better

[FunkyMonkey]

Billboard singles review: Guns N' Roses

January 10, 2009 ET

Better

The title track from Guns N' Roses' "Chinese Democracy" hit radio a couple of months ago, but this new single is, well, much better?a hook-filled track that won't tarnish the band's reputation for radio hits. It's a bit overproduced: "Better" has drum loops, a midtempo guitar-driven verse, a chorus that sounds like it could have come from another song, some frenetic fretboard sweeps at the end of each chorus and an electronic sheen hanging over it all. But somehow Axl Rose's familiar vocals hold it together. His sense of melody makes "Better" memorable, rendering the song equal parts rock and pop, and GN'R's first bona-fide single for the YouTube/iPod generation. ?Bram Teitelman

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/reviews-singles/better-1003926110.story

[jarmo]

Nice review.


I just don't get the "overproduced" thing.

It doesn't sound like shit. So shouldn't it be produced just enough?

Something that sounds like shit (mixed too loud etc.), shouldn't that be labeled overproduced? Meaning, they tried too hard to make it sound great and ended up with shit.... 


It seems like anything that doesn't sound like nostalgia flavored garage rock is "overproduced". 



/jarmo

[wells]

thanx for sharing ... so the 10th might be the date of video also   ...

It's a bit overproduced? It's not ...




-velimir


edit:  6 seconds slower than jarmo ... not good final lap 

[FunkyMonkey]

I think it's mostly a positive review...I like this part. 

His sense of melody makes "Better" memorable, rendering the song equal parts rock and pop, and GN'R's first bona-fide single for the YouTube/iPod generation.

[Rhino]

Nice review.


I just don't get the "overproduced" thing.

It doesn't sound like shit. So shouldn't it be produced just enough?

Something that sounds like shit (mixed too loud etc.), shouldn't that be labeled overproduced? Meaning, they tried too hard to make it sound great and ended up with shit.... 


It seems like anything that doesn't sound like nostalgia flavored garage rock is "overproduced". 

/jarmo

It Just sounds to me like the "in thing to say" about the album because they cant think of anything els bad to say about it.

[Annie]

I have loved BETTER since I first heard the leaks!

[Layflats]

"Overproduced" is going to be thrown around by critics simply because of the unique amount of time it's taken to present a final product.

There are a ton of "little things" on this album, which is what I'm getting into now with the album.  A lot of times the vocals blend into and out of guitar tones that are the same notes and creates things sonically that I've not heard before on albums. 

The vocal tracks are what I keep focusing on early.  A lot of "doubling" effects that I've never heard come together so nicely.  Listen to Stevie Wonder or John Lennon and their doubling usually has a "warble" to it.  Axl's tracks are super tight (which to me is very cool and suggests a lot of attention to detail), but will draw these "overproduced" critiques.  I like when albums are slick at times and raw at times.  CD has all that in spades.
 

[ppbebe]

I have loved BETTER since I first heard the leaks!

and have better appreciations of better than those overproduced critics do.

[February]

I think the album in it's all is overproduced in a sense that there is a lot of different sounds and structures to each song, every time i ear the album i find something new i didn't notice before. I just don't consider overproduced has to be a bad thing, just a way to categorized it in opposition to let's say stripped ou raw prodution. And yesssss Better is memorable 

[Annie]

I have loved BETTER since I first heard the leaks!

and have better appreciations of better than those overproduced critics do.

SO TRUE!

[LunsJail]

Not that I agree with him.....but I think the reviewer is referring to all the sounds on the track:

"It's a bit overproduced: "Better" has drum loops, a midtempo guitar-driven verse, a chorus that sounds like it could have come from another song, some frenetic fretboard sweeps at the end of each chorus and an electronic sheen hanging over it all. "

Not the actual sound, loudness, compression, etc. of the song.  When I think of overproduced, I think 80's synthesizers with fake ass sounding drums, not Better.

[jarmo]

Not the actual sound, loudness, compression, etc. of the song.  When I think of overproduced, I think 80's synthesizers with fake ass sounding drums, not Better.

I know it's used as a way to describe something that's apparently too polished.


My point was just that it's getting thrown around to label anything that doesn't sound like it was made in a garage over the weekend and mixed and mastered by some engineer suffering from bad hearing.





/jarmo

[Pine Barrens]

If by "overproduced" they mean "worked on until they achieved the sound they wanted but I don't like it", then I guess there's a point to be made, but it should have been worded differently. However, if that's not what they meant and they simply think there's too much going on in the song, well, then per Billboard's definition, I guess that any NIN record would be deemed overproduced, too...

[falungong69]

how hard is it for a critic to write a postiive review without shitting on something?

overproduced?  fucking bullshit.  this guy can suck it, nice comments notwithstanding.

[RoCoKiN]

So when did Better "Officially" become a single? Today?

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Would Bram Teitelman call Pink Floyd overproduced?

I don't think so.

People use the O-word when they are trying too hard to sound important.

[downzy56]

Yeah no kidding...  Here in Toronto I've heard it once and that was over a month ago.  Just goes to show that the order of singles do matter.  Had they released Better as the first single I think the song and the album would have done better.  

As for overproduced, I think it's being used in the context of what's necessary and what isn't.  In other words, in a contemporary context, what adds to or detracts from the song.  AFD could never be considered overproduced as it sounded raw, organic and unfettered.  It didn't need drum loops, synthesizers (with a few exceptions, ie Paradise City), and a electronic polish to convey what the artists needed.  In my personal opinion one is not better than the other as I appreciate all the hard work that went into making Chinese Democracy what it is.  I wouldn't say Better and the rest of the album is "overproduced" because of personal taste, but it's hard to argue that it didn't go through much more production that most other albums.  It all depends what you want.  The White Stripes refuse to record using computers 'cause they like the old, raw sound of tape.  

Chinese Democracy to me is a lot like the last three Star Wars movies.  Very epic, but there is a lack of 'realness' within the art.  When you start adding so much to a given work, the audience will likely wonder if it's the artist's need to overcompensate for something.  If you want to know if something is truly good, strip it to its bones and test the bare essentials.  Some people like it, others do not (ie. critics).  Stripped-down will always be considered hip.  The difficult move is going for broke with everything you've got.  When November Rain was released, it didn't go a single review without a comment of it being overproduced.  But few would deny the greatness of the song (the fact that it still gets played on radio today is a testament to its value; very few 8+ minute songs ever get played on radio, even fewer still get spun 10+ years out).  But play the song only using a piano and the song still holds up.  It doesn't need the strings, the drum fills, the epic guitar solos.  Some would argue that what Axl added to the song improved it, most would agree that with or without the extras the song is still a great piece of music.

Critics in general will always champion bare-bone acts like the White Stripes, Arctic Monkeys and the Strokes.  I think you can thank bands like Nirvana for that.  I suppose simple things are sometimes easier to appreciate.

Cheers,

Andrew

[MeanBone]

Overproduced?


well if you think five guitar players, two drumers, one bass player and a sub bass by another member, three guys playing keyboards, and 3 distinct background vocals, plus three different guys arranging the drums along with 4 other guys digitaly editing the song, according to the song's credits is overproduced, then yeah, it just might!

the wonder of it all is how they managed get all of those guys doing a song together. either way, i think it works, but it's def. overproduced.

Of course that's not a bad thing if the final product is good, wich in this case it is. it's overproduced the way they wanted it to be, and it worked very well.

you guys shouldn't say it's not just because you think that's a harsh critic. to be this overproduced with this many people working on the song and having it sound this good is actually quite an accomplishment. So Kudus to Axl and Caram, and Robin i guess.

of course this is far from the beattles days where the band recorded it all in one live take where they'd all play together, (wich btw is a great way to record an in your face live attitude rock album), or something along the lines of Vampire Weekend that produces just simple enough melodies to make it interesting, but this doesn't mean it's bad.

it's a new approach to rock music, or not so new if you think of linkin park that is known to spend quite sometime in the studio as well perfecting everything, but still, it rocks and that's all that matters.

so is it overproduced? yes it is! is that a bad thing? not at all, just listen to the song!

[Layflats]

  The White Stripes refuse to record using computers 'cause they like the old, raw sound of tape.

I'd be surprised if Democracy wasn't recorded on 2" analog tape.  It was definitely edited and mixed on computer (pro tools).

Interesting you brought up Nirvana since Andy Wallace mixed a good portion of Democracy (also mixed Nevermind).  Wallace has an insane roster of artists that he's worked with.

[D]

Nice review.


I just don't get the "overproduced" thing.

It doesn't sound like shit. So shouldn't it be produced just enough?

Something that sounds like shit (mixed too loud etc.), shouldn't that be labeled overproduced? Meaning, they tried too hard to make it sound great and ended up with shit.... 


It seems like anything that doesn't sound like nostalgia flavored garage rock is "overproduced". 



/jarmo

The only thing I can think of is all the little super mario like beeps during that amazing awesome guitar breakdown before the heavy vocal * I never wanted u.....*

That is the only part of the song I don't care for.

Pitman shines on 99 percent of CD, that part there is the only time I could do without it.

Overproduced also can mean that a track is stuffed with so much stuff OR every note seems to be labored and meticulously calculated thus sometimes taking away the raw power of it all.

I don't think Better is overproduced. Catcher yeah but not Better.