Axl again on mygnrforum: Dexter homework

[ppbebe]

How could you found a band when you weren't there when the band started and before?

[axlrosegnr]

to my knowledge in the line-up when the band started there wasn't slash or duff.

Correct.

They joined Guns N' Roses.




/jarmo

Yes, true, but there were numerous comings and goings from the band "guns n roses" for a while. Even axl left for a while. But the line-up as of June 5th, 1985 was the line-up we all know about. I think jarmo was in diapers then. Why can't you admit that slash, izz, and duff were "founding members?" Tracii Guns was a founding member also, but he left. So what!@#? What the big deal? I know Jarmo wants to come off as the man here, but give me a break..

Because they weren't "Founding" members! Do you know the meaning of the word? Are you THAT dense? Christ man...you give US a break!

[GypsySoul]

Yes, true, but there were numerous comings and goings from the band "guns n roses" for a while. Even axl left for a while. But the line-up as of June 5th, 1985 was the line-up we all know about.

pssssstttt .... read what I posted right above what you just posted 

The name does come from mine and Traci?s as the original inspiration but was something I played with not Traci and Guns was Guns before Traci joined. It was Guns Before I knocked on Izzy?s window. Earlier I had gotten Tracii to use the name Guns (as he had mentioned a girl had called him Mr. Guns sometime) so he?d stop calling his band Persian Rose. So I guess we have the girl to thank.

[Jdog0830]

to my knowledge in the line-up when the band started there wasn't slash or duff.

Correct.

They joined Guns N' Roses.




/jarmo

Yes, true, but there were numerous comings and goings from the band "guns n roses" for a while. Even axl left for a while. But the line-up as of June 5th, 1985 was the line-up we all know about. I think jarmo was in diapers then. Why can't you admit that slash, izz, and duff were "founding members?" Tracii Guns was a founding member also, but he left. So what!@#? What the big deal? I know Jarmo wants to come off as the man here, but give me a break..

Because they weren't "Founding" members! Do you know the meaning of the word? Are you THAT dense? Christ man...you give US a break!

True when people say like founding members they mean the members that were there and made the songs 4 Appitite and Lies

[sandman]

Slash quit thinking Axl would beg him to come back. He wanted to take over the band.

None of that happened and he has his own band to fuck around with now.




/jarmo

jarmo - what is your source for this? did slash state this specifically? were other people aware of this, or is this just someone's speculation on slash's motives?

thanks!

anyway, Slash quit. he should have listened to Keith Richards. people can argue that Axl shouldn't have the name or use the name. but he does have the name, legally, and he can use the name all he wants. i really don't understand why this makes people so angry.  

if someone's own view of "gnr" requires slash to be a part of it, than just move on and don't buy the album.

[markreed]

We're going to spend of our lives debating semantics...

It was GNR before Slash and Duff joined. It was GNR after Slash and Duff left. End of. Nobody has the right to tell Axl that he - and thus, we - have to give up a name, songs and artistic entity we love because it doesn't fit with what some people think their perceptions of reality are. There is only one reality : the one we make for ourselves, and I think Axl and his vision of GNR deserve the respect to be that entity.  I've seen it my own life : people get furious when they feel I am not doing what they want me to do. What are they or anyone else to tell people what they should do and what lifechoices they should make - as long as they are legal and are not destructive to the lives and health of others? people don't have to like it. But if Axl did what the majority wanted, he'd be shackled to Slash forever, churning out an album every few years and touring everywhere all the time. And none of those albums would be as good as "Chinese Democracy". 

There will always be people who think that as soon as guitarist x or bassist y leave a band, the band stops existing. This is nonsense. A band is an artistic entity, often authored by one individuals vision and one individuals choice of colloborators. Think of it like a democracy : every democracy has to have its Prime Minister and Axl is President of GNR, and the rest of the band are on the board. Any entity without a leader gets lost. GNR now is a band - it may not be the band it was in 1992 - but it is a band now, and as much a band as it was then, if not more, in every way. Cling to the past if you like, but don't try to deny those of us who are trying to embrace the future : we're spending the rest of our lives there.

[jarmo]

Slash quit thinking Axl would beg him to come back. He wanted to take over the band.

jarmo - what is your source for this? did slash state this specifically? were other people aware of this, or is this just someone's speculation on slash's motives?

And I?m not talking change of styles or sounds etc. A lot of people bought that crap and me having gone in other directions seems to many to have verified that. Then you have the mind twisting equally as true horseshit in Slash?s book but I have the rehearsal tapes. There?s nothing but Slash based blues rock and he stopped it to both go solo and try to completely take over Guns. I read all this if Axl would?ve put words and melodies on it could?ve? That was denied and I didn?t walk till several months after having 3 to 4 hour phone conversations nearly every day with Slash trying to reach a compromise. I was specifically told no lyrics, no melodies, no changes to anything and to sing what I was told or fuck off.

Which is basically what Marc Canter said earlier this year:

Slash figured "Well, Axl won't be able to do without me. So if I quit, he's gonna have to come back to me and say 'Ok, let's work something out.'"

/jarmo

[sandman]

Slash quit thinking Axl would beg him to come back. He wanted to take over the band.

jarmo - what is your source for this? did slash state this specifically? were other people aware of this, or is this just someone's speculation on slash's motives?

And I?m not talking change of styles or sounds etc. A lot of people bought that crap and me having gone in other directions seems to many to have verified that. Then you have the mind twisting equally as true horseshit in Slash?s book but I have the rehearsal tapes. There?s nothing but Slash based blues rock and he stopped it to both go solo and try to completely take over Guns. I read all this if Axl would?ve put words and melodies on it could?ve? That was denied and I didn?t walk till several months after having 3 to 4 hour phone conversations nearly every day with Slash trying to reach a compromise. I was specifically told no lyrics, no melodies, no changes to anything and to sing what I was told or fuck off.

Which is basically what Marc Canter said earlier this year:

Slash figured "Well, Axl won't be able to do without me. So if I quit, he's gonna have to come back to me and say 'Ok, let's work something out.'"

/jarmo

ok. this is total speculation though. what axl thinks and cantor thinks do not make this "fact." therefore, i don't think we should make asusmptions.

i believe axl's story, but anytime anyone makes assumptions as to what someone else was thinking, you have to take it with a grain of salt.

for example, Axl believes Slash lied and said "my world" is perfect just to make Axl look bad. Axl believes that, but it doesn't make it true. quite frankly, i'm not sure slash was clever enough to think so far ahead.

[GypsySoul]

ok. this is total speculation though. what axl thinks and cantor thinks do not make this "fact." therefore, i don't think we should make asusmptions.

i believe axl's story, but anytime anyone makes assumptions as to what someone else was thinking, you have to take it with a grain of salt.

for example, Axl believes Slash lied and said "my world" is perfect just to make Axl look bad. Axl believes that, but it doesn't make it true. quite frankly, i'm not sure slash was clever enough to think so far ahead.

To quote Warner Wolf ... "LET'S GO TO THE VIDEOTAPE!!!" 

And I?m not talking change of styles or sounds etc. A lot of people bought that crap and me having gone in other directions seems to many to have verified that. Then you have the mind twisting equally as true horseshit in Slash?s book but I have the rehearsal tapes. There?s nothing but Slash based blues rock and he stopped it to both go solo and try to completely take over Guns. I read all this if Axl would?ve put words and melodies on it could?ve? That was denied and I didn?t walk till several months after having 3 to 4 hour phone conversations nearly every day with Slash trying to reach a compromise. I was specifically told no lyrics, no melodies, no changes to anything and to sing what I was told or fuck off

[sandman]

ok. this is total speculation though. what axl thinks and cantor thinks do not make this "fact." therefore, i don't think we should make asusmptions.

i believe axl's story, but anytime anyone makes assumptions as to what someone else was thinking, you have to take it with a grain of salt.

for example, Axl believes Slash lied and said "my world" is perfect just to make Axl look bad. Axl believes that, but it doesn't make it true. quite frankly, i'm not sure slash was clever enough to think so far ahead.

To quote Warner Wolf ... "LET'S GO TO THE VIDEOTAPE!!!" 

And I?m not talking change of styles or sounds etc. A lot of people bought that crap and me having gone in other directions seems to many to have verified that. Then you have the mind twisting equally as true horseshit in Slash?s book but I have the rehearsal tapes. There?s nothing but Slash based blues rock and he stopped it to both go solo and try to completely take over Guns. I read all this if Axl would?ve put words and melodies on it could?ve? That was denied and I didn?t walk till several months after having 3 to 4 hour phone conversations nearly every day with Slash trying to reach a compromise. I was specifically told no lyrics, no melodies, no changes to anything and to sing what I was told or fuck off

the part you bolded proves that there was no change in musical direction by Axl. and although i will never hear the tapes, i believe him.

the assumption with no proof is that Slash wanted to "take over the band." all we have are people's opinions of Slash's motives.

i'm not necessarily saying it isn't true, but when i'm passing this information on to friends, i can't state that as an absolute truth. whereas i HAVE passed along the word that slash lied about being forced to sign a contract before a show.

[audjon]

Slash quit thinking Axl would beg him to come back. He wanted to take over the band.

jarmo - what is your source for this? did slash state this specifically? were other people aware of this, or is this just someone's speculation on slash's motives?

And I?m not talking change of styles or sounds etc. A lot of people bought that crap and me having gone in other directions seems to many to have verified that. Then you have the mind twisting equally as true horseshit in Slash?s book but I have the rehearsal tapes. There?s nothing but Slash based blues rock and he stopped it to both go solo and try to completely take over Guns. I read all this if Axl would?ve put words and melodies on it could?ve? That was denied and I didn?t walk till several months after having 3 to 4 hour phone conversations nearly every day with Slash trying to reach a compromise. I was specifically told no lyrics, no melodies, no changes to anything and to sing what I was told or fuck off.

Which is basically what Marc Canter said earlier this year:

Slash figured "Well, Axl won't be able to do without me. So if I quit, he's gonna have to come back to me and say 'Ok, let's work something out.'"

/jarmo

ok. this is total speculation though. what axl thinks and cantor thinks do not make this "fact." therefore, i don't think we should make asusmptions.

i believe axl's story, but anytime anyone makes assumptions as to what someone else was thinking, you have to take it with a grain of salt.

for example, Axl believes Slash lied and said "my world" is perfect just to make Axl look bad. Axl believes that, but it doesn't make it true. quite frankly, i'm not sure slash was clever enough to think so far ahead.

Well it is a fact as Axl said so, and it has been confirmed by the famous mind reader Mike Cantor. Why should Axl assume anything that wasn't 100% right, we know that Axl has never read too much into anything or misinterpreted anyone's insinuations, he has always been on good terms with with everybody in through his whole life. He was just very unfortunate to meet that snake who has been conspiring and constantly plotting to undermine Axl's position in Guns N' Roses since 1988, even earlier. And when St. Axl started to hire and fire band members without the Snake's knowledge nor acceptance, the Snake acted quickly to put his grand plan into full action.

It is so obvious to everyone that it was all Slash fault, Axl was just the unfortunate pray in Slash' vicious scheme.

I do not have it confirmed yet, but I am pretty sure that it was Slash pulling the strings when Axl added Paul to the band without anyone else in the band knowing about it - just to make Axl look bad. It just seems so typical Slash, always working behind the scenes.

Why can't you get it into your head that Axl is always right and his version of the past and his perceptions of what goes on in other people's mind should not be doubted by anyone on this board.

[jarmo]

Very funny.


It must be tough when everything you believed in for years turns out to be bullshit.





/jarmo

[Cary Alison]

Hey Everyone. I just joined HTGTH but have been reading it for years! It was great to read what Axl wrote. Word is out that he posted here and MYGNR.  I just saw on my local radio station's web (www.q1043.com) a write up about Axl's visits to the boards!

[audjon]

Very funny.


It must be tough when everything you believed in for years turns out to be bullshit.





/jarmo

I have always believed in Axl, GN'R and Chinese Democracy and I'm quite content with the outcome.

[oldgunsfan]

Very funny.

It must be tough when everything you believed in for years turns out to be bullshit.

/jarmo

not especially

[cantrell]

Very funny.


It must be tough when everything you believed in for years turns out to be bullshit.





/jarmo

I have always believed in Axl, GN'R and Chinese Democracy and I'm quite content with the outcome.

Eveyone who has followed  GNR saga during these never ending years has already an opinion  on who is to blame for GNR  break up, so I don´t think that Axl words have uncovered nothing new to most of us , his statement   just confimed the view we all suppossed Axl had  on this issue , all the others are to blame  . Nobody really expected him to admit he has any kind of responsability on GNR disband , its quite obvious all was Slash´s  fault and he´s just a victim.

I would have appreciated  a less selfish and childish statement , even if i love Axl and enjoy Chinese I would never deny that Axl´s attittude played an important role in GNR´s disband .

[axlrosegnr]

Very funny.


It must be tough when everything you believed in for years turns out to be bullshit.





/jarmo

I have always believed in Axl, GN'R and Chinese Democracy and I'm quite content with the outcome.

Eveyone who has followed  GNR saga during these never ending years has already an opinion  on who is to blame for GNR  break up, so I don?t think that Axl words have uncovered nothing new to most of us , his statement   just confimed the view we all suppossed Axl had  on this issue , all the others are to blame  . Nobody really expected him to admit he has any kind of responsability on GNR disband , its quite obvious all was Slash?s  fault and he?s just a victim.

I would have appreciated  a less selfish and childish statement , even if i love Axl and enjoy Chinese I would never deny that Axl?s attittude played an important role in GNR?s disband .

Why do you feel that way though? Why do you feel that Axl's "attitude" played a role? Because the ex-members said so? Because of what the media would say about Axl?  And, how was what Axl said selfish and childish? He was simply answering questions that he was asked.

[Limulus]

discussed some stuff on another forum, here are some quotes/thoughts from there about old Guns and their break-up (mainly by "Devo"):

About the recurring debate here: It might be that Axl is right about a few aspects while Slash is right about others. That's far more likely than the truth being in the middle. What Axl said about the handing over of rights actually makes sense. Other things are far more questionable. It's unwise to say that only one side is right, and fortunately (or unfortunately) no one here seems to think that.
In the end this has a lot to do with how we value the various issues. It might be true that Axl forced everyone to leave the band, but that doesn't mean that they didn't also leave at their own will (without being forced to). I doubt there's any one truth here. its really not that easy with the break-up. but with the "band members leaving" or "being forced to leave"......in the end they basically were gone cause of Axl, the split had to do with Axl! he agreed earlier that "he wanted power", also an Izzy interview from 2001 backs this up.
I think Axl and the others fail to realize that different explanations could be equally true and they're sticking to their one core truth. This is a debate within the historical profession anyway, and I don't know the details of it.
I'm just saying that Axl's version could be true from his point of view. And even if the others feel different, it doesn't mean Axl's story is wrong. I mean, it could be that Axl did everything he could to keep the band together. If he really attempted to do things that way, yet failed, it would be hard for him to think that he broke up the band. The other people had a choice too, you know.
but the others' feelings/stories dont need to be totally wrong neither. its difficult and every old band member has his own priorities on judging things/events on the break-up, let alone memory fading! the easy way people and many fans generally like to go, to blame mostly only 1 person for the break-up, surely doesnt work here anymore. its probably more like spiltting song writing credits on who has done more damage and how much....but even this would be nearly impossible to work out.
sadly remaining fact is one of the biggest rock bands ever couldnt survive with Slash, Duff and Axl after the illusion years and they still are so bittered and refuse to settle their differences. we can hope that somehow -suggesting they still wont talk to each other years later- on the long road at least the aging will have effect on cooling it down, like.....i mean.....how would they have to feel if someone dies and they didnt talk or made some peace before?

there are still many many issues fans dont know about, it also would be interesting to see how much the Stephanie Seymour break-up had influence on Axl's behaviour and work regrading to band issues. i mean....i could still see her all over CD.

[cantrell]

Very funny.


It must be tough when everything you believed in for years turns out to be bullshit.





/jarmo

I have always believed in Axl, GN'R and Chinese Democracy and I'm quite content with the outcome.

Eveyone who has followed  GNR saga during these never ending years has already an opinion  on who is to blame for GNR  break up, so I don´t think that Axl words have uncovered nothing new to most of us , his statement   just confimed the view we all suppossed Axl had  on this issue , all the others are to blame  . Nobody really expected him to admit he has any kind of responsability on GNR disband , its quite obvious all was Slash´s  fault and he´s just a victim.

I would have appreciated  a less selfish and childish statement , even if i love Axl and enjoy Chinese I would never deny that Axl´s attittude played an important role in GNR´s disband .

Why do you feel that way though? Why do you feel that Axl's "attitude" played a role? Because the ex-members said so? Because of what the media would say about Axl?  And, how was what Axl said selfish and childish? He was simply answering questions that he was asked.

I feel this way because i´ve been following this band for eighteen years  and like most of the  members  of  this forum  I´m  quite familiar  with   the  different  personalities  involved in this " drama " .  You can´t deny that Axl   is not the  easiest guy to work with sometimes   , he´s a nice and talented guy  but he´s  also  very stubborn person who likes  to handle things according to his desires   ....that is not bad  is part of his charm  but I´m pretty sure that his intransigence had something to do with all the problems which sorrounded the band at that time .  
Do you really belive that Axl did move an inch from his original position or accepted any suggestion from former members  in order to reach an agrement that allowed the band to go on   ?  I doubt it  I rather think  that Axl   just tried to impose his view and that is when Izzy , Slash and Duff  left the band .   For instance when Gilby was sacked  I´m pretty sure that Axl´s   position was something like  " Here is Paul Tobias he´s gonna play with us wheter you like or not "  rather than  searching somekind of understanding with Duff and Slash .
Assuming  that ,you should admit  that   Axl´s  attitude towards the other members might had some influence in the break up, and  I´m  not saying that  it was all Axl´s  fault , IMO  both Axl and Slash played a part in the disband  and that is the reason why  I think  Axl´s statement is selfish .... because he simply  does not admit any fault .

[jarmo]

For instance when Gilby was sacked  I?m pretty sure that Axl?s   position was something like  " Here is Paul Tobias he?s gonna play with us wheter you like or not "  rather than  searching somekind of understanding with Duff and Slash .

Or maybe he got tired of waiting for the others to suggest something and said "here's a guy, let's work with him"?

All this time we've heard the "Axl brought in his friend Paul..." stories. But who did Slash or Duff suggest?




/jarmo