Axl again on mygnrforum: Dexter homework

[Limulus]

wow!!!!
i have been waiting for ages for his version of the breakup....and now totally unexpected and out of the blue Axl just officially "released" some of this in a fan forum for free?!!!
this statement and his will to give insight in all this means so much more to me than the new album!
in fact i'm that blown away that i'll have to read and analyze that the next hours again and again, allready printed it out!!
i'll have to drop work tomorrow 

[Satapher]

wow!!!!
i have been waiting for ages for his version of the breakup....and now totally unexpected and out of the blue Axl just officially "released" some of this in a fan forum for free?!!!
this statement and his will to give insight in all this means so much more to me than the new album!
in fact i'm that blown away that i'll have to read and analyze that the next hours again and again, allready printed it out!!
i'll have to drop work tomorrow 

I think in the same way like you... finally Axl clears any shit around GN'R and shut up some curly-hairy asses
and the best thing is that he was the one who wrote it, it wasn't manipulated by any magazine, journalist or shits like that
thanx u Axl for everything!!!!!!!!!! this is DA SHIT

[Gaymo, the Hobbit]

He even answered my question, yay!

I didn’t see lineup changes etc back then I saw it more as a crash and burn, goin’ down with the ship. On one hand I knew the band was over before we started touring Illusions but you have hope… but I saw it more like the Titanic sinking than moving on or surviving. And in reality I went the distance with each and every one in Guns to where they felt for whatever reasons they either couldn’t or wouldn’t give what Guns required.

And I’m not talking change of styles or sounds etc. A lot of people bought that crap and me having gone in other directions seems to many to have verified that. Then you have the mind twisting equally as true horseshit in Slash’s book but I have the rehearsal tapes. There’s nothing but Slash based blues rock and he stopped it to both go solo and try to completely take over Guns. I read all this if Axl would’ve put words and melodies on it could’ve… That was denied and I didn’t walk till several months after having 3 to 4 hour phone conversations nearly every day with Slash trying to reach a compromise. I was specifically told no lyrics, no melodies, no changes to anything and to sing what I was told or fuck off.

[LittleFly]

Yowsa, what a read!  I'm gonna have to read that again in a bit, there's alot to digest there!  

Thank you so much Axl!!  This was long awaited!

[western_chaos]

Yes, this was a well deserved statement from Axl Rose, finally laying to rest some things we've had on our minds for a long time.

I like the way Axl does what's best for the fans, and not anybody else. 

[mrarkadin]

Great read. Good to hear his side, though I always trusted his intentions.

I look forward to very experimental instrumental music someday along with the rest.

Thanks for taking the time these few days Axl.

[Chief]

This was awesome indeed.. what a way to do it too.  Thank you, we've been dying to hear this stuff for a long time!!!   

[LordRazZ]

A copy of my post from MyGnRforum.com (thought it amusing to share)

That wasn't nearly informative enough.

We need dates...times...weather conditions.

Wow...I'll tell ya one rumour that was spot on. When Axl starts talkin....lol.....

I get it now Uncle Axl. You were never in hiding. Dizzy just asked you a question, and it took a few years to answer..lol..

I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Thank you from the bottom of our collective hearts for all of this. The chance for all of us to say hello, share stories, ask questions, spend time, and just in general really get to know the guy who alot of us idolize? Ya didn't have to do it, but you did anyway. Not for promotion, not for fame or money. Just cause you care about the fans. You're a class act Mr. Rose.

Now...in 5000 words or more, describe what your cat's doing right now...(betcha he can do it....lol...)

RazZ

[Erin]

A copy of my post from MyGnRforum.com (thought it amusing to share)

LOL that was cute I registered over there and tried to post but it keeps saying I don't have permission (yes, I am logged in). I tried to PM a Mod but it says I don't have permission to do that either. Banned before I can even get a word in. Who warned them I was coming?  j/k

[R.B. Huckleberry]

Amazing read.





/jarmo

That sums it up beautifully.

Hey, how did everyone else feel when it seemed that over a decade of "common knowledge" just flushed down the proverbial toilet? Anyone else's head spinning?

[The Dog]

Don't have the time to read through everything thats been asked/said but did anyone ask Axl if he has plans to go on SNL or Letterman, etc...? If so, what did he say?

[The Dog]

Amazing read.





/jarmo

That sums it up beautifully.

Hey, how did everyone else feel when it seemed that over a decade of "common knowledge" just flushed down the proverbial toilet? Anyone else's head spinning?

well, just b/c Axl said it doesn't mean it's 100% "the truth".  It's his versions of events.  Slash has his.  The truth is prob a mix of both of them... maybe not 50/50, but certainly some sort of mix.

having just read Slash's book, my favorite take away from it was him saying Axl has his version of events and they are just as viable as mine.  Or something like that.

Certainly over time both stories have taken twists and turns....

Either way, it's beyond amazing to hear Axl's side straight from the horses mouth.  Big thank you to him for getting his side out for the fans to digest.

[Jim Bob]

he called them nuGuns and oldGuns...hahahhaha, oh how much flack i've gotten for calling them NuGnR  

In regard to nuGuns, I get that sometimes it helps to be able to clarify. Personally I call this Guns and the Illusions or previous lineups old Guns.

/jarmo

exactly, he's giving his opinion on when people use the phrase 'nuGuns'

I've always called the band GnR, and pre-96 lineups oldGuns.   Makes sense to me.

I can honestly say I've supported Axl's vision of Guns N' Roses from day one and I am very pleased to see that I was right in doing so.   THANK YOU AXL!

[jemin]

Wow!  Axl is really getting into this whole q&a and posting online.  Not that I ever cared about whose version of the truth is the truth.  Their personal history never really mattered to me as much as me enjoying the music.  But it is totally cool he is telling his side to the online community/fans and not the media.

[Josh]

My favorite part:

"U have to realize we were on the street. It wasn?t the first band. Whoever thought of the name kept the name unless he gave it up or moved on. Everyone was always having a new version of whatever their band name was. I wouldn?t have thought of using LA Gunns or any of Slash?s band names. We all knew that we could break up the next week. You had to have that stuff somewhat sorted between each other going in. It was a deal that we made. The issue becomes the value or perceived value now and the fans attachment and or acceptance. Really weren?t things we consciously considered even during the breakup."

It's a revelation to me that this whole business with the name is still being played out on the Hollywood streets circa 1985. That despite being the biggest band in the world (past, present, future) and a mullti-million dollar corporation of a name that it all goes back to something as fundamental as this.

Merry Christmas Axl!  It started 11/23 and just keeps on giving. 

[ShotgunBlues1978]

Amazing read.

/jarmo

That sums it up beautifully.

Hey, how did everyone else feel when it seemed that over a decade of "common knowledge" just flushed down the proverbial toilet? Anyone else's head spinning?

well, just b/c Axl said it doesn't mean it's 100% "the truth".  It's his versions of events.  Slash has his.  The truth is prob a mix of both of them... maybe not 50/50, but certainly some sort of mix.

having just read Slash's book, my favorite take away from it was him saying Axl has his version of events and they are just as viable as mine.  Or something like that.

Certainly over time both stories have taken twists and turns....

Either way, it's beyond amazing to hear Axl's side straight from the horses mouth.  Big thank you to him for getting his side out for the fans to digest.

Slash has already been proven a liar, and he didn't even need anyone else to do it.  He did it himself, by completely changing his story and contradicting his own previous versions of the same events.  He was also severely messed up on drugs and booze when a lot of these events took place.  So in my opinion his version of events has little to no validity, just based on his own contradictions and admittedly drinking a half gallon of vodka and doing speedballs every day

Axl's versions of the events have always been consistent, never been rebutted, and are from the only person in the band who was actually lucid and not messed up the vast majority of the time.  That makes his accounts much more valid to me

[ben9785]

That was an amazing read, and special that he chose to speak so openly direct to the fans.

I hope that's not the last from him.

[HoustonPam]

Axl, some of us can fully relate to what you went through, because being in a band relationship with Slash and his attitude, and eventually ending your relationship with Slash as a bandmate was like a long, drawn out, excrutiatingly bad marriage, and then divorce.

And some of us lived through those type circumstances while you lived through the circumstances you went through.

Yours was on a grander, more expensive and more public scale of course. But ours was not necessarily any less painful, exhausting, and mind warping.

God bless all of us who have made it through such a journey without losing our minds.

I wanted to point out my favorite parts of what you wrote:

"Keeping the band name alive was very important. Not out of ego and I don?t know exactly why in the sense of putting into words but I think it has something to do with the global effect it has and how Guns surviving in some way is sometimes inspiring to others around the world and in that there?s a sense of obligation."

You were so right in that respect.

The other great part you wrote was:

"Such as a more positive intent and instead of as self destructive more of healing. There?s all kinds of things to help you die or be more negative. I wanted to try and make as powerful a hard rock album as we could while incorporating beauty and an openness to other forms both traditional and more recent without going religious etc."

That was great too. It's so hard to build something, be positive, etc, but so easy to tear things down and be negative.

Thanks again for sharing this with us! We love you!   
 
 

[Gaymo, the Hobbit]

I tried connecting Axls answes to the original questions. Can't garantee it's all correct, but i gave it my best:

Q: The worst story I think I've heard regarding the ownership 'battle' was that you got some of the other members to sign off on it by refusing to get on stage to perform during a concert - and 'forced' them to sign off right then and there. Is there any truth to this story? And could you clarify the circumstances?

A: So let’s start here… the whole Axl wouldn’t go on stage yada yada… is complete and utter crap.

Never happened, all made up, fallacy and fantasy. Not one single solitary thread of truth to it. Had that been the case I would’ve have been cremated years ago legally, could’ve cleaned me out for the name and damages. It's called under duress with extenuating circumstances. In fact the time that was mentioned the attorneys were all in Europe with us dealing with Adler depositions.

Couldn't talk sooner as it could have jeopardized whatever nonsense was going on.

When Guns renegotiated our contract with Geffen I had the bit about the name added in as protection for myself as I had come up with the name and then originally started the band with it. It had more to do with management than the band as our then manager was always tryin’ to convince someone they should fire me. As I had stopped speaking with him he sensed his days were numbered and was bending any ear he could along with attempting to sell our renegotiation out for a personal payday from Geffen.

It was added to the contract and everyone signed off on it. It wasn’t hidden in fine print etc as you had to initial the section verifying you had acknowledged it.

Now at that time I didn’t know or think about brand names or corporate value etc. All I knew is that I came in with the name and from day one everyone had agreed to it being mine should we break up and now it was in writing.

I still didn’t grasp any other issues until long after I’d left and formed a new partnership which was only an effort to salvage Guns not steal it.

In my opinion the reality of the shift and the public embarrassment and ridicule by others (which included a lot of not so on the level business types he was associating with at the time) for not contesting the rights to the brand name, were more than Slash could openly face. Also we aren’t lawyers or formally business educated so it was just a matter of all of us being na?ve and doing what we thought was right at the time. Slash was imo being on the up and up in agreeing I had the rights and I wasn’t trying to be some snake in the grass pulling a fast one. The others could’ve cared less.

But when the reality of the breakup hit and the strategy to have me crawl back was put into play Slash had to save face and get business team and public support. Painting me as the one who held a crowd hostage forcing the others to sign over the name worked out pretty well in that regard. I’m the bad guy and Duff, the fans and most importantly himself were the victims. Oh and they had actually made the sacrifice for the crowd, the people, the fans at the show. But again…. IT NEVER HAPPENED.

Media and others ignorantly, wrongly and falsely harped on about it at mine and the fans expense for years and Slash has hoped to use all that to continually sue and have some sort of legal nonsense going on behind the scenes in an effort to reverse things. He wouldn’t have been able to get the support and action on the part of his various team members over the years to do so if the truth were out there especially when the statute of limitations had run out years ago.

Q:Why did you choose to keep the name rather than create a new name?

A:Why keep the name? I’m literally the last man standing. Not bragging, not proud. It’s been a fucking nightmare but I didn’t leave Guns and I didn’t drive others out. With Slash it’s been nothing more than pure strategy and saving face while manipulating the public like he used to me. I earned the right to protect my efforts and to be able to take advantage of our contract I’d worked hard for where Slash’s exact words were that he didn’t care. I get that some like a different version or lineup the same way some like a specific team line up or a particular year of a specific car but because you and I are getting played I’m supposed to throw the baby out with the bath water?


Q: What do you think about people that say CD should of been a solo album instead of using the name Guns N' Roses ( I don't agree with them of course but...)

And how much has been spent on legal battles over the name/how much do you value the name at?

A: I didn’t make a solo record. A solo record would be completely different than this and probably much more instrumental. I made a Guns record with the right people who were the only people who really wanted to help me try, were qualified and capable while enduring the public abuse for years . The songs were chosen by everyone involved. I didn’t want to do This I love in anyway shape or form and Robin and Caram insisted gaining Tommy’s and the others support. There’s been a lot of pressure to go with using my name (all external) but that never felt right to me for this band and the parameters in regard to this music have lots more to do with the mindset of Guns than something else. The instrumental I wrote for End of Days that’s more a solo effort at least presently.

As far as a new name…this is who I am not whatever else someone else thinks of. I don’t see myself as solely Guns but I do see myself as the only one from the past making the effort to take it forward whether anyone approves or not and giving beyond what many would or fight for to do so. The name helped the music more than you could ever know and I’m not talking in regards to studios or budgets I mean it as in being pushed by something and having to get the music to a place where I can find my peace regardless of what anyone says. And that wasn’t fully achieved until the last round of mastering and swapping out a version of a track at the pressing plant that had gotten inadvertently changed at the last minute.

Also the name was what the industry wanted as well and the burden of keeping it was something to endure in order to make the record. After the monies invested by old Geffen (that were decisions made that have worked out for me but I'm on record as having opposed) dropping the name became suicide.

The cost of legal battles has been astronomical but I felt the deal made with Universal was fair for where it is and most things balanced out for both sides.

[Gaymo, the Hobbit]

Q: Did you ever consider to drop the name and go on with another one?

A: David Bowie likes Floyd with Barret, many with Waters and those without. And there are those who like all the different lineups. Imo what makes our situation a bit more unique at least in how it’s played out is the ugliness of what really took place. If I’d done what was said then I’d say fuck me too. I also realize this is just one issue in something with upteen however many more so conclusions can’t be formulated off this little bit alone by most which is more than understandable.

That said because someone leaves the shop I started in which I still legally have the rights to the name I started it with… makes up a bunch of nonsense to win public and legal support in an effort to get whatever it is they want at mine and the public’s expense… I don’t feel any reason whatsoever I should have to throw what I’ve not only worked for but fought and suffered for away because some hurt, angry, betrayed, misguided and lied to people with a lynch mob mentality, joined by others who could care less (especially in the media), enjoying the controversy and hate, choose one over the other regardless of what’s right because they want what they want. And you can still prefer then as opposed to now and no one’s arguing your right to do so.

In regard to nuGuns, I get that sometimes it helps to be able to clarify. Personally I call this Guns and the Illusions or previous lineups old Guns.

Q: Are you guys allowed to play any song from the GNR catalogue? Because in the past I heard that legal matters hinders you to play some of the UYI stuff.

A: We can play what we want as far as I’m aware.

Q: I would ask what the catalyst was to originally motivate you to seek ownership of the name?

Looking back, do you still feel it was a good course of action to have taken?

A: It wasn’t so much that it was a good course or that if looking back I could do something differently it’s that for better or worse it was the only course and had I not done this Slash would have succeeded in destroying me publicly much more than he, others or myself have so far and I would have gone bankrupt.

I don’t know where I’d be but there’s clearly no happy ending there and with everything else that had gone on in every other area of my life the devastation isn’t something I feel I would have overcome at least to any real degree publicly. Hopefully I would’ve been able to pick myself up enough to get a job or sing somewhere else but I doubt anything that significant.

The sharing thing is interesting but even with all this time the complications of the red tape and trying to get something out fall on my world to sort and not theirs. They are amazingly supportive and do their best to keep me in up spirits and focused which I had less and less of in Guns way before Sweet Child caught on. If that were to change then that may be something to look at. I hope for us to grow more together as we continue so who knows.

Q: A fun question, what name would you consider naming the band if you hadn't kept the name GN'R

A: If I hadn’t secured the rights I don’t know where I’d be and I’d probably call what would then be the current lineup “Those mother fuckers!!”

Q: Was there ever a point where you thought of releasing Chinese Democracy as a solo album, or do you see this as just as deserving of the Guns name as the old records? (I myself do by the way, just wondering how you feel)

A: The name is something I take great pride in as I feel anyone who’s been a part of it should, the same as other bands or teams etc. The burden when it is such is a nightmare but not as much or as hopeless as I’d imagine without it could have been.

On the what’s the difference… I think I get what you’re asking… I feel it depends on how and in what ways either the formers members are using the association and what the true circumstances regarding why they moved on from both the band and the name that would or could affect the decision to continue on with the name by in this case this lineup and or myself.


Q: Did you ever feel the name as a burden, or were you always sure that it's right to keep the name?

A: It helped us get here but most of that was with Universal and the positives of that wore off years ago until recently and after the initial run it’ll be about the music and us. Then it’s about touring and there’s not a question the name’s helped at most everywhere but not so much the states. With that it comes down to the strength or quality of the performance. Having the name kicks your ass every night as it’s not some side project or something u can fuck off in. You don’t deliver u get your ass handed to u. So it makes us work much harder than I feel we would outside of it and it hasn’t been too ugly yet.

Q: Did you use the GNR name to sell more records??

A: As for selling more records it’d be nice to be in a position to possibly do so at some point but that’s never been my base reasoning. I would think it fits into not feeling I shouldn’t be forced to throw away possible opportunities in a hostile attempted takeover. I believe I should fight for Guns in a patriotic sense or sense of loyalty or honor. Not just my vision or direction for Guns as those things can evolve and you can make forward moving positive compromises by what others bring to the table but I mean more as in what principles I feel were important to Guns in regard to an overall commitment to the music.

Q: Did you already have a new lineup or a lineup change in mind at that time?

A: I didn’t see lineup changes etc back then I saw it more as a crash and burn, goin’ down with the ship. On one hand I knew the band was over before we started touring Illusions but you have hope… but I saw it more like the Titanic sinking than moving on or surviving. And in reality I went the distance with each and every one in Guns to where they felt for whatever reasons they either couldn’t or wouldn’t give what Guns required.

And I’m not talking change of styles or sounds etc. A lot of people bought that crap and me having gone in other directions seems to many to have verified that. Then you have the mind twisting equally as true horseshit in Slash’s book but I have the rehearsal tapes. There’s nothing but Slash based blues rock and he stopped it to both go solo and try to completely take over Guns. I read all this if Axl would’ve put words and melodies on it could’ve… That was denied and I didn’t walk till several months after having 3 to 4 hour phone conversations nearly every day with Slash trying to reach a compromise. I was specifically told no lyrics, no melodies, no changes to anything and to sing what I was told or fuck off.

Q: To you, what is the definition of "Guns N' Roses"? ie., what (except for legal reasons) would make you change the name of the band you're playing in?

A: As to what would possibly make me change the name would be some form of evolving that I don’t feel we’ve reached yet and not in any way consciously trying to at this time. It’s really hard to say. I’d have to feel it was right for me and those involved and whatever we’re doing at that time.