The Obama Administration thread

[GeorgeSteele]

There is some talk of a value added tax...  Please, someone tell me that will not be on the table as an option.... 

OK, you convinced me, it's not on the table.

Seriously, what do you think are the pros (if any) and cons? 

[JuicySwoos]

There is some talk of a value added tax...  Please, someone tell me that will not be on the table as an option.... 

OK, you convinced me, it's not on the table.

Seriously, what do you think are the pros (if any) and cons? 

Pros and Cons can be the same thing depending on your viewpoint....for instance, most lower and middle class families do not pay much if any in federal income taxes, but yet they arguably recieve the most benefit from the goverment.  So this can be seen as a way to make them at least pay something for the benefits they and everyone else receive. 

On the flip side, politicians use the whole "need to help out the lower and middle classes" mantra, but this would be akin to a tax hike on those folks they purport to want to help.  They would be paying the same amount of taxes as a "rich" person on any given item. 

Bottom line, there has to be more and new taxes in order to pay for this goverment spending.  Once almost everyone has to pay, then it will be interesting to see if the US continues down the path.  Right now it is easy for many to support the spending, since they are not the ones who are paying for it. 

For the partisans, this is not a specific rip on the golden boy, but government spending in general, whether it be for social programs or bombing the world.

[Vicious Wishes]

There's no possibility of a vat tax because president Obama said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ5fOsyj-bk

And he wouldn't lie to us. No politician ever would.

[WARose]

in my opinion a value added tax is the biggest scam politicians have ever thought out to fill the holes of their budgets....

i`m not entirely sure, but i think it was launched in the sixties oder seventies here in germany....  now we`re at 19 percent and there`s no end in sight...

[GeorgeSteele]

in my opinion a value added tax is the biggest scam politicians have ever thought out to fill the holes of their budgets....

i`m not entirely sure, but i think it was launched in the sixties oder seventies here in germany....  now we`re at 19 percent and there`s no end in sight...

I could see why it's so unpopular (19% is brutal), but compared to most other countries, Germany's government is fiscally sound, the country has a substantial trade surplus and an economy that is not overly dependent on consumption.  Just like the United States, only the complete opposite.  Perhaps Germany is in that situation mainly for reasons other than the VAT, but the VAT in theory is designed to facilitate such a result.

[D]

Obama is starting to win me over


my mom owns a few small businesses *Daycare centers*

got her taxes and she owed HALF of what she did last year

so she got some kinda nice break which is fantastic


add that to the 10 percent cap on Student loan payments and its looking good for my vote next term

[freedom78]

Obama is starting to win me over


my mom owns a few small businesses *Daycare centers*

got her taxes and she owed HALF of what she did last year

so she got some kinda nice break which is fantastic


add that to the 10 percent cap on Student loan payments and its looking good for my vote next term

Changes to student tax credits made a big difference in my (well...my wife's) taxes.  Took us from owing a grand to getting that same amount back.  That's $2000 to throw at student loans which is extremely helpful.

It's a matter of time until people realize all the "raise your taxes socialist" descriptions simply aren't true.

[Drew]

My taxes this year shot thru the roof. I had to pay more than I've ever had to pay in my life! Thank you very much B.O. you piece of shit! This is probably only the beginning!

[Axl4Prez2004]

I've been quite busy as of late...could somebody please bring me up to date on the ACORN thing?
From what I've heard, there were some new developments...thanks in advance.

[TheWalkinDude]

My taxes this year shot thru the roof. I had to pay more than I've ever had to pay in my life! Thank you very much B.O. you piece of shit! This is probably only the beginning!

You aren't kidding.  I'm paying almost $700 a month in federal taxes alone.  Then when you add in SS and Medicare, I'm out like 1300.  All so people who live beyond their means and won't work in a field that offers stability.  Sorry, no one makes you have three kids and take out a loan on a $500,000 house.  Bend me over backwards so other people can live more comfortable and pass on their piss poor life decisions onto another generation.

[Drew]

You aren't kidding.  I'm paying almost $700 a month in federal taxes alone.  Then when you add in SS and Medicare, I'm out like 1300.  All so people who live beyond their means and won't work in a field that offers stability.  Sorry, no one makes you have three kids and take out a loan on a $500,000 house.  Bend me over backwards so other people can live more comfortable and pass on their piss poor life decisions onto another generation.

Cheers TheWalkinDude! Very well said! Federal taxes is what got me so bad as well. Out of nowhere! It's all about this nation of 'entitlement' and how people believe they are owed what they want. 

[freedom78]

How dare those poor people not want to live in abject poverty!  Now I'll have to sell my second boat!   

[Axl4Prez2004]

Hey Drew, I'm thinking they need to restructure the NFL draft...damn socialists must have designed it!  Why else would all the successful teams be penalized for winning?  Socialism I tells ya!  The New Orleans Saints earned that #1 draft pick fair and square!  But nooooooo, Lefty Obama's giving the St. Louis Shams the #1 overall pick!  Probably just trying to score points to win Missouri in 2012!   

 

[freedom78]

My favorite complaint is that they "won't work in a field that offers stability"...as if there are just millions of well paying, stable jobs in booming industries, but all those poor people are instead choosing to work the Arby's drive thru window. 

[GeorgeSteele]

I'm still trying to figure out how it is that I pay close to 50% of my income in taxes, but live in a country that has the highest childhood poverty rate of all industrialized nations.  Also, why do my 1040 instructions say to make my check payable to 'Lockheed Martin'?

[Axl4Prez2004]

I'm still trying to figure out how it is that I pay close to 50% of my income in taxes, but live in a country that has the highest childhood poverty rate of all industrialized nations.  Also, why do my 1040 instructions say to make my check payable to 'Lockheed Martin'?

Easy there commie!    Hey, just because those lazy asses won't get out there and work for a living doesn't mean you should feel bad for them. 

btw, I think it's payable to Lockheed Martin because it just cuts out the middleman in paying the $700+ BILLION dollars the U.S. spends every fucking year on national defense...more than the rest of the world's nations combined.  Aint that something?

[Drew]

It's very maddening that these higher taxes are only the beginning. Taxes are going to keep going thru the roof. It's a punishment for people who have worked hard their entire life and was able to achieve some goals they set out for themselves. It's the thought process of this country and it's assholes in power that 'Everyone deserves a trophy and there should be no losers.' The producers of this country will keep paying the taxes for all the moochers to remain in poverty. My federal taxes this year are completely insane. But hey, I guess it wouldn't be fair for me to bust my ass everyday and reap some reward for my accomplishments while others are crying unfairness and choose for the government to provide all the entitlement programs they want and need to live a happy life. 

[freedom78]

Plenty of people bust their asses every day and have very little to show for it.

But that's ok.  Hope you're comfortable. 

[Drew]

Plenty of people bust their asses every day and have very little to show for it.

Nothing comes easy in life. Nothing is for free! This I know very well. I've worked extremely hard to feel some sort of comfort.

[freedom78]

Since this tax bullshit keeps coming up, I thought it might be helpful to post the tax brackets for 2008, 2009 (your current taxes that are coming due), and 2010:

2008 tax brackets:
10% $0 - $8,025
15% $8,025 - $32,550
25% $32,550 - $78,850
28% $78,850 - $164,550
33% $164,550 - $357,700
35% Over $357,700

2009 tax brackets:
10% $0 - $8,350
15% $8,350 - $33,950
25% $33,950 - $82,250
28% $82,250 - $171,550
33% $171,550 - $372,950
35% on the income over $372,950


2010 tax brackets:
10%    Not over $8,375
15%    $8,375 ? $34,000
25%    $34,000 ? $82,400
28%    $82,400 ? $171,850
33%    $171,850 ? $373,650
35%    Over $373,650

The first thing one reading this might say, provided that they're not flipping the Glen Beck's Official Right Wing Answer and Dogma Guide is this:

HEY!  THERE'S HARDLY ANY DIFFERENCE AT ALL!

Correct you are!  Not really any difference and still well below the pre-Dubya (i.e. let's help those unfortunate rich folks) days. 

In fact, if you made $50,000 each of these three years, here would be your federal income taxes:

2008: $8844
2009: $8688
2010: $8681

That's right junior...those numbers are going DOWN...not the "big socialist tax increase" that the right would have you believe.

So, for those complaining about how their income taxes have risen, I can only speculate that there are three possible causes: (1) you made more money this year (2) you don't know what federal income tax is (3) you've done your taxes incorrectly (4) you're contributing extra money to pay down the national debt (5) you think the box to contribute $2 to the federal election fund actually said $2000 or (6) your supposed tax increase is about as real as those WMDs in Iraq. 

Further, long term capital gains taxes are LOWER now than in 2007 for many people (myself included).

Finally, the Social Security tax rate is 6.2% and the Medicare tax rate is 1.45%...these have remained unchanged for quite some time (well over a decade).

So, for our friends of 1980s television commercials, when you hear about people whining about their taxes, one might ask...

Nothing comes easy in life. Nothing is for free!

...unless you're born rich.