The Obama Administration thread

[D]

The people don't want this version of it. I think it is very clear the people are speaking and he isn't listening. Obama wants healthcare but doesn't even know half of the stuff in it.

Seems he is trying to rush it before the holes can be picked out.

Sure in theory this is a wonderful idea, I just don't think most people are going to go for it unless he can stand up there and articulate point by point the positive and the negative.

The polls show he isn't doing that.

[jarmo]

Do you think the people who are unhappy about it have a clue?

Or is it just another case of "no, I don't want socialism!"?




/jarmo

[D]

Do you think the people who are unhappy about it have a clue?

Or is it just another case of "no, I don't want socialism!"?




/jarmo

Little of both. I think most just don't understand it and Obama isn't doing a great job of making them understand it.

I think people have the "It's too good to be true' mentality or something.

[Jim]

Do you think the people who are unhappy about it have a clue?

Or is it just another case of "no, I don't want socialism!"?

Yep. No, it really is.



The American right...

[AxlReznor]

What?  Because he wants free healthcare for everyone (a good thing... my mother wouldn't be alive without it) he's being compared to the fucking Joker?   And people wonder why I sometimes hate americans.

[sandman]

alot of people do not want government-run healthcare. and they believe this government option will lead to that.

but i think there's a significant amount of people that are hearing from independent groups that this will INCREASE the costs of healthcare and further add to our deficit. so although individual's healthcare costs may go down, we will end up having to pay for it somewhere else (probably via higher taxes).

and as D has pointed out, obama is not doing a good job of selling this. initially the main point was covering all americans. it doesn't seem like he mentions that as much anymore - the main focus has shifted to cost. but like i already pointed out, the evidence is sketchy at best as to whether this will lower costs.

and on top of all this...the large majority of americans are happy with their health care!

[jarmo]

alot of people do not want government-run healthcare. and they believe this government option will lead to that.

And why not?

I'm curious. What's so evil about it?

I don't know what you think personally, but if you have a list of reasons why those who are opposed feel that way, I'd like to see it.



It's not a perfect system, but considering the other alternative.....



/jarmo

[freedom78]

alot of people do not want government-run healthcare. and they believe this government option will lead to that.

God willing.  Any of the bills currently being considered fail to go far enough, in my opinion, but they're a decent step in the right direction.

However, I think it would be a long time before we moved from "public option" to true socialized medicine.  Assuming we manage to insure 90% of those without insurance, it would be a while until we reached a point where this was a big enough issue to grab the public conscience again.

but i think there's a significant amount of people that are hearing from independent groups that this will INCREASE the costs of healthcare and further add to our deficit. so although individual's healthcare costs may go down, we will end up having to pay for it somewhere else (probably via higher taxes).

Of course it will have to be paid for via taxes, but the idea is that overall costs will go down.  You get everybody covered, those unpaid bills won't be passed on to your charge which the insurance companies pick up.  This will lower their costs meaning (assuming they don't fuck anyone, which is the point of increased regulation) lower premiums to be paid by you or your employer.  Taxes will increase to pay for it but that increase should be of smaller magnitude than the drop in costs from insuring everyone (or close to everyone).  In addition, since those without insurance delay doc visits because of an inability to pay, they often only go when it becomes an emergency, and emergency care is at LEAST 10x as expensive and often much more.  Insuring those people will allow them to get that $100 office visit to nip it in the bud, rather than that $2000 emergency room visit.  And, since they couldn't afford to pay that emergency room bill, but now their insurance can, that's $1900 that is NOT passed on to the collective.

and as D has pointed out, obama is not doing a good job of selling this. initially the main point was covering all americans. it doesn't seem like he mentions that as much anymore - the main focus has shifted to cost. but like i already pointed out, the evidence is sketchy at best as to whether this will lower costs.

I agree that he's not selling it well, the main reason for which is the lack of one unified bill.  But, still, he needs to do better.  Also, it's worth pointing out that it's easier to sell all the made up BS that some are spewing.  Scaring people is easy.  I'd love to see those relying on fear try to defend their "we don't believe in insuring the 50 million uninsured" position without making up lies to cover their asses.

and on top of all this...the large majority of americans are happy with their health care!

I'm very happy with my health care.  I'm just disgusted with our health care. 

I'm curious...what percentage of Americans without healthcare do you think take the time to answer political surveys?  Assuming that most without insurance are poor, and knowing that the poor vote at lower rates than the middle class and wealthy, can't we make the logical leap and say they likely don't answer political surveys at too high a rate?  Besides...45-50 million Americans without insurance is far from a majority yet I can't imagine that we actually need to have 150+ million uninsured (half of us) for this to be considered a problem.  Why must I do something only when it benefits me? 

[Drew]

un-patriotic

Yes, that too. And.........Un-American. Terrorists. Nazis. Hate mongers. Brownshirts. KKK. Right-wing mobsters. Evil mongers.

[sandman]

alot of people do not want government-run healthcare. and they believe this government option will lead to that.

And why not?

I'm curious. What's so evil about it?

I don't know what you think personally, but if you have a list of reasons why those who are opposed feel that way, I'd like to see it.



It's not a perfect system, but considering the other alternative.....



/jarmo

it's a simple philosophical difference. alot of people want small government. less control over your life. free markets. the large majority of people want healthcare reform. reform is possible without a government option.

freedom - AGAIN, independent sources are saying costs will NOT go down. and it's not just the left-wing that wants reform, so get off your high horse. many people want reform for the reasons you stated. it's just alot of people disagree with the BS plans they are selling.

for one, no strong evidence of declining costs. and two, no evidence that everyone will be covered. so millions of logical people are concluding that there is what sounds like a decent chance that costs will go up, and we will still have millions uncovered.

and by the way, there's so many ridiculous assumptions in your explanation i actually lost even more faith in these ideas.  yeah, let's trust insurance companies and regulation! 

[Smoking Guns]

If we are going to cover illegal immigrants, make their asses legal, give them a SSN and have them start paying into the system like the rest of us.  A lot of my Mexican friends CAN afford health insurance, hell, you should see what they drive, but they can't get it because they are illegal.  So GIVE THEM THE ABILITY TO PAY FOR IT. 

We need reform in a very bad way.

A4P, guess how much Dr. Andrews charged me and my insurance company.  You would be shocked at how affordable it was!!!!

[Axl4Prez2004]

Hey Freedom, you stay right up there on that high horse!  Sandman, the man's an equestrian.  Don't mess with professionals!  

Seriously, my hope is that concessions are made and the 2 sides can meet somewhere just left of center.  

...now, how do I get a job on the "Death Panel?"  

S Guns, just saw your post, agreed.  Make them legal and tax the fuck out of them!  It's not rocket science!  THEN, if we find illegal aliens, I'm cool with throwing 'em into work camps. 
...and stop rubbing it in!  I'd kill to have Andrews work on me.  How are you coming along btw?

[Smoking Guns]

Fellas, see what Mr. Rogers has to say.  What sux is we don't have enough information to have sound arguments. I don't know about all of you, but I haven't read these proposed bills.  Hmmmm..  Mr. Rogers makes some good points. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G44NCvNDLfc

[Smoking Guns]

Hey Freedom, you stay right up there on that high horse!  Sandman, the man's an equestrian.  Don't mess with professionals!  

Seriously, my hope is that concessions are made and the 2 sides can meet somewhere just left of center.  

...now, how do I get a job on the "Death Panel?"  

S Guns, just saw your post, agreed.  Make them legal and tax the fuck out of them!  It's not rocket science!  THEN, if we find illegal aliens, I'm cool with throwing 'em into work camps. 
...and stop rubbing it in!  I'd kill to have Andrews work on me.  How are you coming along btw?

HAHAHAHA, rehab is going well!  I get out of my sling next tuesday and my flexiblity is coming back!  Start some strength training next week and I have a follow up with THE MAN the 2nd week in September.  All over his clinic are pictures and jerseys of a bunch of badasses.... Should I send one in from Smoking Guns?  I could send a framed Axl jersey from the 2002 tour as a gift to the Doc.

[Smoking Guns]

A hell of a good town hall meeting going on right now.  Turn on Fox.  Obama doing a great job, actually this plan is moving towards the middle daily.  Great questions, great answers.

[Jdog0830]

Jarmo, Barack won on the principals of Hope and Change.  He was different than what we had, period.  He wasn't elected on Policy or Experience.  He is still learing and growing and will make a lot of mistakes, maybe one day he will be a great president. 

Yes, I know. He was all about change and now he's working on changing things.


And yet some are surprised?




/jarmo

i know people expect change over night but it dosent work like that it takes time

[Jdog0830]

A hell of a good town hall meeting going on right now.  Turn on Fox.  Obama doing a great job, actually this plan is moving towards the middle daily.  Great questions, great answers.

their making him look good on fox thats a first

[Jdog0830]

What?  Because he wants free healthcare for everyone (a good thing... my mother wouldn't be alive without it) he's being compared to the fucking Joker?   And people wonder why I sometimes hate americans.

were not all like him

[norway]

Or is it just another case of "no, I don't want socialism!"?

I call it nazism, it has nothing to do in a democracy due it it's totalitarian nature.

One can always say "but look at Scandinavia!", but we haven't had a pure sozi goverment since ww2...

It's not a perfect system, but considering the other alternative.....

You get lesser que's, thats 47m Americans waiting for treatment.

There are options to have everyone pay to cover all without turning it all over to the goverment.

reform is possible without a government option.

Exactly!

[Jdog0830]

Or is it just another case of "no, I don't want socialism!"?

I call it nazism, it has nothing to do in a democracy due it it's totalitarian nature.

One can always say "but look at Scandinavia!", but we haven't had a pure sozi goverment since ww2...

It's not a perfect system, but considering the other alternative.....

You get lesser que's, thats 47m Americans waiting for treatment.

There are options to have everyone pay to cover all without turning it all over to the goverment.

reform is possible without a government option.

Exactly!

Wow if you compare our persident to Hitler then you are fucked up Hitler killed millions and raped Europe and our president is trying to change things for the better people can be so stupid to even try to make a comparison between the 2