The Obama Administration thread

[freedom78]

this is interesting...

"Obama refused to rule out taxing employer-sponsored health insurance -- an idea he had ridiculed during the presidential campaign. He also indicated that he would consider a requirement that every American have health coverage. During the campaign, he had also dismissed that idea."

source: washington post

One good idea...one bad idea.  Taxing it is a bad idea, at least in a blanket fashion.  I could live with it being taxed above a certain investment, but from $0 up would be very harmful to the middle class, if you ask me.  Unfortunately, this is being pushed by some in Congress, and it's on the table as part of negotiations. 

As for the universality of the coverage, it's the only way to maximize the savings of such a plan (i.e. people who can't afford healthcare but also need it...when they don't pay, those costs are passed on to everyone else...a truly universal plan deals with that problem).  Since this then creates the problem of forcing people who can't afford healthcare (that's why they don't have it to begin with) to buy it, we need a single payer system...at least for those below a certain income level.   

[Smoking Guns]

Last I checked, as of...now:

the Dow Jones Industrials are up 10.2% since Obama's inauguration...
the Nasdaq is up 28.4%...
the S&P 500 is up 16.7%...

it sounds to me as if something's getting stimulated.  

The stock market is not a direct reflection of our economy.  Right now its up because the stocks are beleived to be at rock bottom and people are slowly getting back in.  Now, if we have new jobs being created vs. being lost, than I would buy more into it.  The stock market will go up and down no matter what, but I don't look to the market for answers.

I just find it amusing that at a time when many yahoos on the far right are screaming our nation is becoming a socialist nation...the very representation of our capitalist nature is surging ahead.  That has to be an indicator of something...perhaps a sign that the government is not going to be launching a takeover of all private businesses?

Dude, the market was raging super hot not long ago when infact we were already on the slippery slope.  Books are still being cooked so my point is I don't trust jack shit what the market says.  The "market" over valued and "under" valued many companies based off false information.  So yes, its good news some stocks are doing better, but since when does a value/price of a stock accurately mean what is going on with that stock?  It doesn't!  Look at all these banks and other companies that may be in a bad industry.  Doesn't mean one company is bad or terrible, even thought their price may reflect that.  It also doesn't really mean that expensive stocks are good companies, they could collapse at any time too.  Look at enron.  What is going on now is people getting back in because they think we have seen the worse.  I hope we have.  But the market can be manipulated.  I have great fear investing in the market.  Each quarter companies are asked to meet or beat expectations, and if they come up short they get beat up for it. Or if another company in the same industry has a scandle, they too lose stock value.  Its too emotional, too volatile, too easy to manipulate.

We still have a TON of homes empty on the ground we need to move.  I finally sold my last home I had.  I gave it away.  Its good to see some of the inventory drying up, but we still have a long way to go.  The price of fuel is rising very fast too.  I don't hear anyone bitching too much yet, but we need to be.  Several people that still have jobs have taken pay cuts to stop layoffs, that is a good thing to keep people hired, but still pretty bad.  Its just very slow right now and some good numbers from the stock market alone isn't enough for me to change my thoughts yet.  The stimulus money hasn't even gotten to the right people's hands yet.  They say only 5% has, so obviously we can't say the stimulus spending has created anything, cause it hasn't been spent yet.   

[Axl4Prez2004]

The point is, people are definitely betting on the stimulus money to have a positive impact.  People just aren't betting on it with "gentleman's wagers," their cash is on the line.  and like I said, if all the nonsense about nationalization/socialism/Obama Fascism/etc. were true, people wouldn't be putting a dime into the market...but they are.

On healthcare, Freedom makes some great points.  Just think about it.  Why should we continue with the current system where uninsured people are just going to emergency rooms for care that's exponentially more expensive than if they had basic health insurance?  I work in healthcare and it's sad to see what happens when people don't use that "ounce of prevention" and end up having to come in for a "pound of cure."  It's way more expensive.  There's a "diabesity" explosion in this country happening right now.  Poor folks are subsisting on cheap calorie dense, corn syrup-laiden garbage that is driving them to diabetes-land.  and let me tell you, diabetes land is one expensive place!
Young mothers-to-be aren't getting pre-natal care.  It goes on and on.

It's all about efficiency.  It can be cheaper to get poor and lower middle class people insured.  I think that's the main point here.  Sure, it sounds great that everybody would be insured, (and I still hope it's not compulsory, like candidate Obama said he wanted), but it goes beyond "sounding good."  It can be more efficient, and that's where I hope we are going.  ...and yes Sandman, I'd be disappointed if the President taxed eshi.  That said, just because something isn't "ruled out" doesn't mean its going to happen.

[sandman]

just hold on to all the tax rebates you're getting now, cause the obama camp is tossing around a bunch of regressive (i.e. fuck the middle class) taxes to pay for his BS agenda. i can't believe the Dems will be so stupid to allow that to happen though. they are in total control...why risk losing elections by raising taxes on the middle and lower classes?

[freedom78]

just hold on to all the tax rebates you're getting now, cause the obama camp is tossing around a bunch of regressive (i.e. fuck the middle class) taxes to pay for his BS agenda. i can't believe the Dems will be so stupid to allow that to happen though. they are in total control...why risk losing elections by raising taxes on the middle and lower classes?

Because he's trying to make it bipartisan.  That "tax your benefits" stuff is straight from McCain...wonder who's pushing it in the Senate now, though. 

[GeorgeSteele]

just hold on to all the tax rebates you're getting now, cause the obama camp is tossing around a bunch of regressive (i.e. fuck the middle class) taxes to pay for his BS agenda. i can't believe the Dems will be so stupid to allow that to happen though. they are in total control...why risk losing elections by raising taxes on the middle and lower classes?

Sadly, I think the answer to that question is "to not risk losing elections by raising taxes on the wealthy".

Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit here on this administration, but my feeling thus far is that Obama is continuing the same time-honored tradition of the Democratic party -- to throw just enough bones to the lower class in order to maintain the stability of a system that screws them. 

To suggest that the lower class need to pay more taxes is beyong tragic.  And when I say lower class, I mean everyone except the wealthy elite.  To suggest that someone making $100K is in the "middle" is beyond insulting.   All the essentials you'd expect a citizen of the wealthiest country in history to have (quality health care, education, etc.) are there to be had simply by hammering the wealthy with tax increases and slashing the "defense" budget.

Is that socialism?  Probably, but who cares?  I just want the same deal that the rich have -- big government for their interests, small government for everybody else's.  Free markets when we make money, socialism when we lose.

[sandman]

anyone see Bill Maher rip Obama a new one on his show this week? basically said this is not what he voted for. he said Obama is more concerned about being on TV than getting anything done. OUCH! and he's not fighting for real change or significant healthcare improvements as promised. 

at one point he even said he needed to be more like George Bush, and not worry about opinion polls and just get things done instead. it was pretty funny. and further evidence of why i'm relatively happy with the job he's doing.

[freedom78]

anyone see Bill Maher rip Obama a new one on his show this week? basically said this is not what he voted for. he said Obama is more concerned about being on TV than getting anything done. OUCH! and he's not fighting for real change or significant healthcare improvements as promised. 

at one point he even said he needed to be more like George Bush, and not worry about opinion polls and just get things done instead. it was pretty funny. and further evidence of why i'm relatively happy with the job he's doing.

Didn't see it, but I heard about it.  The view from the left of Democratic Presidents (and Congresses) is an unpleasant one.  I don't know if Dems simply have a more conciliatory nature than Republicans or what, but there's a time for bi-partisanship and compromise and a time to bitchslap the other side and do what you were elected to do.  Democrats tend to be bitchslappers far less than they're bitchslapees and even now, when they have as close to a "mandate" as any party can claim to have, they focus on compromise.  That's fine, to a point, but there has to be an end to it if it completely disrupts the process. 

Then again, it's still early in this Presidency, and one thing I learned from the campaign is that, even when seeming to make a bad move, Obama usually makes a good move.  The move may seem bad in the moment, but a few months down the road it will have been right.  I doubt that will always apply, but it seemed to happen again and again during the campaign. 

[sandman]

Obama has gotten some bad press this week. first the Bill Maher ripping, then Newsweek, and now MSNBC.

from Newsweek...
"It's hard to know whether Obama's healthcare proposal is naive, hypocritical or simply dishonest"


from msnbc.com...
"The Obama administration is fighting to block access to names of visitors to the White House, taking up the Bush administration argument that a president doesn't have to reveal who comes calling to influence policy decisions.

Despite President Barack Obama's pledge to introduce a new era of transparency to Washington, and despite two rulings by a federal judge that the records are public, the Secret Service has denied msnbc.com's request for the names of all White House visitors from Jan. 20 to the present. It also denied a narrower request by the nonpartisan watchdog group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, which sought logs of visits by executives of coal companies."

[freedom78]

Obama has gotten some bad press this week. first the Bill Maher ripping, then Newsweek, and now MSNBC.

from Newsweek...
"It's hard to know whether Obama's healthcare proposal is naive, hypocritical or simply dishonest"


from msnbc.com...
"The Obama administration is fighting to block access to names of visitors to the White House, taking up the Bush administration argument that a president doesn't have to reveal who comes calling to influence policy decisions.

Despite President Barack Obama's pledge to introduce a new era of transparency to Washington, and despite two rulings by a federal judge that the records are public, the Secret Service has denied msnbc.com's request for the names of all White House visitors from Jan. 20 to the present. It also denied a narrower request by the nonpartisan watchdog group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, which sought logs of visits by executives of coal companies."

Much of it comes from his left, which is to be expected.

Not sure what the purpose of the log block is, and I'm totally against it.  With the exception of things that might be sensitive to national security, my general feeling is that it's a public building with officials of the government working in it, so there's no justifiable reason to withhold all logs of visits. 

[Vicious Wishes]

So many people think that "their" politician is different from all the others. The older you get, the more you realize that "their" politician is just like all the rest. Or, at least, they eventually end up like all the rest.
Washington is funny like that. You can go there with the best of intentions, and by the time they leave(retire, thrown out in a sex scandal, whatever), they're not much different from those that you despise.
Some good things(as you see it) may happen, some terrible things(as you see it) may happen, but in the end, they're usually not the person you thought they were.
I realize that's a very negative attitude to have, but hey...welcome to politics



If what I've said bothers you..wait a few years

[D]

I think Obama is a cool guy but maybe too cool for his own good.

U got all these problems in the world and it just sets a bad perception when he is constantly doing "fun" stuff.

This North Korea thing will be huge for Obama getting re elected. If he handles this well, he will be in great shape. If this N Korea thing doesn't go well, I think the Republicans will retake the White House in 2012.

[freedom78]

I think Obama is a cool guy but maybe too cool for his own good.

U got all these problems in the world and it just sets a bad perception when he is constantly doing "fun" stuff.

This North Korea thing will be huge for Obama getting re elected. If he handles this well, he will be in great shape. If this N Korea thing doesn't go well, I think the Republicans will retake the White House in 2012.

Hmm...I disagree about NK.  It hasn't gone "well" for any President in a while, and the last two were reelected.  I don't see how it trumps the economy and/or Iraq/Afghanistan.  If we're mostly out of Iraq and the economic situation improves, it's a landslide.  Granted, that's over three years out and without unknowns being considered, but our domestic situation and foreign situations where we're very directly involved will almost surely trump NK, barring direct action like an invasion of the South or something like that.

Not sure what you mean by "fun" stuff.  Like taking Michelle out to dinner?  Why does that matter?

[D]

I am talking about hanging out with Lebron James and doing stuff like that. Flying to NY to watch a play on the American Taxpayer's dime while we are in a huge recession and people can't afford their mortgages.

I am talking about "perception"

Personally, I am not mad about it, I could care less but u have to think outside your way of thinking and see things from the eyes of others and I think like Bill Maher says, it seems he tries to be everyone's friend etc.

N Korea are reaching epic levels though which the nuclear program and is something that will be huge in the next year or so.

Also, when did bill maher become a republican?


Just because he criticized Jesus Obama?

[sandman]

a recent poll shows more people trust the GOP over the democrats to better handle the economy, by 45% to 39%. that is just stunning. and is evidence that the general public is not happy with Obama's over-spending and general handling of the economy.

[AxlsMainMan]

a recent poll shows more people trust the GOP over the democrats to better handle the economy, by 45% to 39%. that is just stunning. and is evidence that the general public is not happy with Obama's over-spending and general handling of the economy.

Doesn't Obama have a 66% approval rating, compared to George Bush's 24% approval rating?

[freedom78]

a recent poll shows more people trust the GOP over the democrats to better handle the economy, by 45% to 39%. that is just stunning. and is evidence that the general public is not happy with Obama's over-spending and general handling of the economy.

I think it's more a blaming of whomever is in power than anything else, given his still high approval numbers.  Anyway, we're still a 17 months out from Midterms, so a ton can happen, either way.

I am talking about hanging out with Lebron James and doing stuff like that. Flying to NY to watch a play on the American Taxpayer's dime while we are in a huge recession and people can't afford their mortgages.

I am talking about "perception"

Personally, I am not mad about it, I could care less but u have to think outside your way of thinking and see things from the eyes of others and I think like Bill Maher says, it seems he tries to be everyone's friend etc.

N Korea are reaching epic levels though which the nuclear program and is something that will be huge in the next year or so.

Also, when did bill maher become a republican?


Just because he criticized Jesus Obama?

Not aware of what you mean re: Lebron, but public appearances and the like are often about portraying optimism.  I agree there's a fine line to walk, and it's easy to fuck it up a la Bush playing golf while taking 9/11 questions.

RE: North Korea...not sure what constitutes an "epic" level, but their tests have been largely unsuccessful and they continue to lob their shitty technology into the ocean, rather than into orbit.  I'm not saying it isn't an issue, because it clearly is, but they lack the technology of nuclear states like Pakistan and India and nuclear wanna-bes  like Iran. 

Who said Maher is a Republican?  Did I miss something?

[Axl4Prez2004]

a recent poll shows more people trust the GOP over the democrats to better handle the economy, by 45% to 39%. that is just stunning. and is evidence that the general public is not happy with Obama's over-spending and general handling of the economy.

Doesn't Obama have a 66% approval rating, compared to George Bush's 24% approval rating?

Yeah, but who wants to mention that?  btw, you forgot to add "Jesus" in front of Obama's name. 

[Smoking Guns]

a recent poll shows more people trust the GOP over the democrats to better handle the economy, by 45% to 39%. that is just stunning. and is evidence that the general public is not happy with Obama's over-spending and general handling of the economy.

Doesn't Obama have a 66% approval rating, compared to George Bush's 24% approval rating?

Yeah, but who wants to mention that?  btw, you forgot to add "Jesus" in front of Obama's name. 

Its down to 56% per Chris Matthews on Hardball last night.  Dick Cheney's numbers are up and Nancy Pelosi is Rock bottom.  But Barack is now in the 50's.  That was reported on pro obama station, MSNBC.  Also the gay force is not happy with him dancing around thier issue either, Maddow will keep pushing this.

[AxlsMainMan]

Dick Cheney's numbers are up

Scary.