Dr Pepper bitchslapped

[D]

Only on here would there be a person who agrees with Axl's lawyer that the release of Chinese Democracy over a freakin can of pop (that was never promised to be given out on the release date anyway!) was ruined for some people due to this. You show me one true GNR fan who had the release date spoiled for them in any way over this. I'll wait.

My day was sorta runied the day before the release. As soon as I found out what the conditions are to reclaim your "free soda" (which I admit I read kinda late), I expressed my disappointment in lengths here:
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=54585.msg1133896#msg1133896

Notice, this was still on 22nd my time (pacific), hours before the Dr Pepper server crashed and the 1 soda per household new condition came about, and days before GN'R threatened Dr Pepper with a law suit. So, for you to somehow suggest that fans jumped on Axl's bandwaggon once his lawyer's press release was issued and without thinking in any rational way, is an insult to those fans.

It's a fucking can of pop. Go purchase your own if you want one that bad. Holy fuck, we wait ten years for an album and you have the release date disrupted over a free can of pop? Step into the real world man. If they had said free cars, then people could complain but it is a can of pop. Again, the average American struggling to make ends meet is not thinking or losing sleep over a free can of pop.

Why don't I sue Axl for not showing up for performances? That costs a lot more in terms of money, expenses and time than a fucking pop can.

It's not just a can of pop! Apart from taking away from my excitement for the CD release, I also felt cheated to have purchased Dr Pepper soda worth $120 that same day (Nov 22nd) thinking that they sincerely support and celebrate the CD release and will make honest efforts to reward EVERY American for it and thus contribute to the promotion and celebrations.

Hold on a second

U bought 120 dollars worth of Dr Pepper just because of their campaign?

[gunns1]

I hope he books himself into hospital if hes going to drink all that sugary syrup crap

that stuff is bad for your liver

[shadyklyde]

I hope he books himself into hospital if hes going to drink all that sugary syrup crap

that stuff is bad for your liver

haha there are worse things, its just soda. we all gonna die one day, may as well have fun.

and well dr pepper should have known that many people would come to their site. oh well.

[nekomex]

one question, if someone makes a promise, its like a contract?
or dr.pepper could say "well we dont give a fuck about what we said, we dont want to give the sodas"?  i know they wont said that, but they could?

[riotact_vancity]

Only on here would there be a person who agrees with Axl's lawyer that the release of Chinese Democracy over a freakin can of pop (that was never promised to be given out on the release date anyway!) was ruined for some people due to this. You show me one true GNR fan who had the release date spoiled for them in any way over this. I'll wait.

You don't have much understanding of business or marketing do you?

It has nothing to do with an individual person's day being ruined by not receiving a free can of Dr. Pepper

Perhaps you can't read Son. From the letter by Axl's lawyer. Fans can't sue when Axl doesn't show up for a scheduled performance but GNR can when a pop company doesn't meet the demand of a free giveaway?

?The redemption scheme your company clumsily implemented for this offer was an unmitigated disaster which defrauded consumers and, in the eyes of vocal fans, ?ruined? the day of Chinese Democracy?s release?.

  at you not being able to read between the lines and see what this is really about.  Let me break it down, hopefully you can follow

-Dr. Pepper used Axl/Gnr's name to drum up free publicity, with a promise they clearly didn't think they would have to fulfill
-Dr. Pepper's botched attempt to "fulfill" the promise made Axl and GnR look bad because they were associated with it, even though they were never involved and Dr. Pepper never obtained their permission

You are not allowed to use someone else's likeness or image to promote your product without their permission.  That said, GnR had no problem with the promotion in and of itself.  But Dr. Pepper did a terrible job here and people associate the promotion with GnR whether they were actually involved or not. 

That is what this is about.  The botched promotion reflected poorly on GnR's name and image even though they never even obtained GnR's permission to use their name in the promotion.  They used Guns' and Axl's names and attached them to this promise.  They did not deliver on the promise.  So GnR is saying that they should apologize and do a better job of fulfilling the promise, or deal with the consequences of attaching their name to what turned out to be a crappy, half-assed promotion that was terribly executed.  That's what this is really about.
 
If you can't read between the lines of lawyer-speak then I'm sorry

so why didnt Guns' genius managers cooperate in the beginning with dr pepper to ensure their image doesnt get dragged through the mud?

[riotact_vancity]

No thanks I was banned once. My question was in the letter it says that Chinese Democracy's release was ruined for some people due to this and I was trying to get a sense of how a free can of pop could ruin a day most of us have waited ten years for.

Well, let me try to explain it to you.

It's called a promise.

They promised all Americans (except two) a free soda and then what did they do?


It doesn't say it ruined the day, the word is in quotes. It's a way of explaining.


Would you be surprised if people felt a bit like "oh, great, how typical of them to fuck up?  "?

They used the GN'R name and then when GN'R delivered..... Well you saw it.



/jarmo

is a promise in print a contract to deliver on said promise, in legal terms? if guns management had actually signed a deal with them or promoted in conjunction with them, they'd have a logical legal case...

[jazjme]

wasn't there that web site that was from Dr.Pepper that had the great wall, and hidden song titles, like the blues, better, etc. linked to them?

[ShotgunBlues1978]

Only on here would there be a person who agrees with Axl's lawyer that the release of Chinese Democracy over a freakin can of pop (that was never promised to be given out on the release date anyway!) was ruined for some people due to this. You show me one true GNR fan who had the release date spoiled for them in any way over this. I'll wait.

You don't have much understanding of business or marketing do you?

It has nothing to do with an individual person's day being ruined by not receiving a free can of Dr. Pepper

Perhaps you can't read Son. From the letter by Axl's lawyer. Fans can't sue when Axl doesn't show up for a scheduled performance but GNR can when a pop company doesn't meet the demand of a free giveaway?

?The redemption scheme your company clumsily implemented for this offer was an unmitigated disaster which defrauded consumers and, in the eyes of vocal fans, ?ruined? the day of Chinese Democracy?s release?.

  at you not being able to read between the lines and see what this is really about.  Let me break it down, hopefully you can follow

-Dr. Pepper used Axl/Gnr's name to drum up free publicity, with a promise they clearly didn't think they would have to fulfill
-Dr. Pepper's botched attempt to "fulfill" the promise made Axl and GnR look bad because they were associated with it, even though they were never involved and Dr. Pepper never obtained their permission

You are not allowed to use someone else's likeness or image to promote your product without their permission.  That said, GnR had no problem with the promotion in and of itself.  But Dr. Pepper did a terrible job here and people associate the promotion with GnR whether they were actually involved or not. 

That is what this is about.  The botched promotion reflected poorly on GnR's name and image even though they never even obtained GnR's permission to use their name in the promotion.  They used Guns' and Axl's names and attached them to this promise.  They did not deliver on the promise.  So GnR is saying that they should apologize and do a better job of fulfilling the promise, or deal with the consequences of attaching their name to what turned out to be a crappy, half-assed promotion that was terribly executed.  That's what this is really about.
 
If you can't read between the lines of lawyer-speak then I'm sorry

so why didnt Guns' genius managers cooperate in the beginning with dr pepper to ensure their image doesnt get dragged through the mud?

Not sure what you're saying.  Cooperate in what way?  GnR allowed them to carry on the promotion because they thought that Dr. Pepper would deliver.  What more could (or should) they have done?  They only had two real options:  accept the promotion and go along with it under the assumption that Dr. Pepper would deliver on their promise, or set the legal team to work and put an end from the promotion

I think it's pretty obvious that option #2 wasn't even an option.  If people are bitching about the GnR camp trying to get Dr. Pepper to deliver on their promise, imagine what would've happened if GnR had sued them for illegally using their name to promote the product

I still find it fucking hilarious that people are actually crying about the GnR camp trying to get Dr. Pepper to deliver on their promise.  You people boggle my mind, I can't even comprehend it

[riotact_vancity]

Only on here would there be a person who agrees with Axl's lawyer that the release of Chinese Democracy over a freakin can of pop (that was never promised to be given out on the release date anyway!) was ruined for some people due to this. You show me one true GNR fan who had the release date spoiled for them in any way over this. I'll wait.

You don't have much understanding of business or marketing do you?

It has nothing to do with an individual person's day being ruined by not receiving a free can of Dr. Pepper

Perhaps you can't read Son. From the letter by Axl's lawyer. Fans can't sue when Axl doesn't show up for a scheduled performance but GNR can when a pop company doesn't meet the demand of a free giveaway?

?The redemption scheme your company clumsily implemented for this offer was an unmitigated disaster which defrauded consumers and, in the eyes of vocal fans, ?ruined? the day of Chinese Democracy?s release?.

  at you not being able to read between the lines and see what this is really about.  Let me break it down, hopefully you can follow

-Dr. Pepper used Axl/Gnr's name to drum up free publicity, with a promise they clearly didn't think they would have to fulfill
-Dr. Pepper's botched attempt to "fulfill" the promise made Axl and GnR look bad because they were associated with it, even though they were never involved and Dr. Pepper never obtained their permission

You are not allowed to use someone else's likeness or image to promote your product without their permission.  That said, GnR had no problem with the promotion in and of itself.  But Dr. Pepper did a terrible job here and people associate the promotion with GnR whether they were actually involved or not. 

That is what this is about.  The botched promotion reflected poorly on GnR's name and image even though they never even obtained GnR's permission to use their name in the promotion.  They used Guns' and Axl's names and attached them to this promise.  They did not deliver on the promise.  So GnR is saying that they should apologize and do a better job of fulfilling the promise, or deal with the consequences of attaching their name to what turned out to be a crappy, half-assed promotion that was terribly executed.  That's what this is really about.
 
If you can't read between the lines of lawyer-speak then I'm sorry

so why didnt Guns' genius managers cooperate in the beginning with dr pepper to ensure their image doesnt get dragged through the mud?

Not sure what you're saying.  Cooperate in what way?  GnR allowed them to carry on the promotion because they thought that Dr. Pepper would deliver.  What more could (or should) they have done?  They only had two real options:  accept the promotion and go along with it under the assumption that Dr. Pepper would deliver on their promise, or set the legal team to work and put an end from the promotion

I think it's pretty obvious that option #2 wasn't even an option.  If people are bitching about the GnR camp trying to get Dr. Pepper to deliver on their promise, imagine what would've happened if GnR had sued them for illegally using their name to promote the product

I still find it fucking hilarious that people are actually crying about the GnR camp trying to get Dr. Pepper to deliver on their promise.  You people boggle my mind, I can't even comprehend it

if they're so upset that it plays badly on their name, they should have entered into an agreement which ensures it's followed through, and do something like put CD/ GnR star logo on Dr Pepper cans, you know, real promotion. there are plenty of ways the management could have made a contract to take advantage of the dr pepper thing, but they ASSUMED it would work out fine for them. Did the management ever try to ascertain or organize the soda distribution? no, then how can they complain about it? Did management complain about the supposed illegal use of GnRs name prior to a couple days after the album came out? no, so how can they complain about both A and B when they, by all appearances, made no effort to enter into a promotional agreement during the 6 month lead-up?

i wouldnt even really care so much about this, and i dont really care, but i find its ludicrous that not a single person in the GnR camp has put out an official or quasi-official statement regarding the most anticipated album release ever-their words-yet they can put out a statement about something in which they lost no money, their sales werent hurt (except on the ludicrous, childish notion that not getting a $.50 can of pop stopped people from buying the album), and no person with an above room temperature IQ would negatively associate the band with under the circumstances.

[Jim Bob]

^quit talking like you know what goes on.   Just enjoy the album.

[RancidPunx]

^quit talking like you know what goes on.   Just enjoy the album.

Can you tell me that you think not getting a free can of 50 cent pop prevented people from buying the album?

[Jim Bob]

^quit talking like you know what goes on.   Just enjoy the album.

Can you tell me that you think not getting a free can of 50 cent pop prevented people from buying the album?

Dont know, dont care.   I'm just enjoying the new album.  This is really fucking stupid how some of you thrive on nothing but negativity.   If its not one thing, its another, but you will find something to whine about.

[RancidPunx]

^quit talking like you know what goes on.   Just enjoy the album.

Can you tell me that you think not getting a free can of 50 cent pop prevented people from buying the album?

Dont know, dont care.   I'm just enjoying the new album.  This is really fucking stupid how some of you thrive on nothing but negativity.   If its not one thing, its another, but you will find something to whine about.

Who is whining? In case you didn't know by posting in the thread you chose to participate in the discussion, which is what message boards are for. Vancity has posted some valid points.

[D]

Well, CD hasn't even been out a week, so Axl still has plenty of time to do some promotion. i think we are all jumping the gun acting all doom and gloom like its all over with.


I was actually surprised back in March that Axl didn't do something about them using the GNR name etc. I guess he knew the CD was coming out so he figured he'd play a long and then give them the big fuck you.




To defend the people in here though against this. I do see their point of view also. U got the most anticipated album ever out right now, and instead of talking about it, u are talking about Dr Pepper. Talking about Dr Pepper takes too much of the focus off the important CD. Also, fans for some reason right or wrong tend to cringe when it comes to lawsuits.

just seems they'd be a little more involved with this release and would be organizing stuff which they could be doing and I hope they are.

[jarmo]

if they're so upset that it plays badly on their name, they should have entered into an agreement which ensures it's followed through, and do something like put CD/ GnR star logo on Dr Pepper cans, you know, real promotion. there are plenty of ways the management could have made a contract to take advantage of the dr pepper thing, but they ASSUMED it would work out fine for them. Did the management ever try to ascertain or organize the soda distribution? no, then how can they complain about it? Did management complain about the supposed illegal use of GnRs name prior to a couple days after the album came out? no, so how can they complain about both A and B when they, by all appearances, made no effort to enter into a promotional agreement during the 6 month lead-up?

Maybe, just maybe, the management didn't work on this because they had nothing to do with it? It all came from Dr Pepper.

And maybe Dr Pepper didn't want to make a "big deal" out of it by doing things like you suggested?

I bet it would cost them money to put the GN'R logo on their cans. Instead of having to pay for and advertise GN'R on their cans, they got lots of free advertising by media reporting about the story. Seems like a far better deal to me, looking from their point of view.



GN'R's management isn't, as far as I know, in the soda distributing business. So it makes very little sense for them to try to make sure the actual sodas are distributed to all Americans. That's Dr Pepper's job and they failed. And that's why they got a letter from GN'R's attorney.





/jarmo

[GNRreunioneventually]

well with all this shit going on they're getting even more free publicicty. i looked in the paper and theres a story in there i think on page 3 or 4 i don't know my Grandmother found it before i did, i just skimmed it encase it said anything different from what i've read on here and on other places.

i don't think they'll go to court, i smell an out of court settlement coming. Yet another fight that will never happen and that will end up as a punch line on VH1

[commissioner]

^quit talking like you know what goes on.   Just enjoy the album.

Can you tell me that you think not getting a free can of 50 cent pop prevented people from buying the album?

Dont know, dont care.   I'm just enjoying the new album.  This is really fucking stupid how some of you thrive on nothing but negativity.   If its not one thing, its another, but you will find something to whine about.

AMEN 

[kuruptlon]

I think that people are under the misconseption that this is about a 20 oz. bottle of soda. For most of us (who are upset) it isn't about the bottle of soda but the feeling of being cheated. I'm not really one to participate in coupons or promotions, but due to my invested interest in the matter I thought it would be a good idea to participate. I was enjoying the release of CD last Sunday and thought why not go redeem my free Dr. Pepper since I was at my computer and had nothing better to do. When I got there and tried entering my information the site kept freezing, this went on for about a half hour before I gave up. So I mean did it ruin my day? No not by any means, and I think the lawyers are fully aware of that, but thats a lawyers job to exaggerate the circumstance in their clients favor. That said I was left with the feeling of 'what the fuck?' after the whole ordeal, and I'm glad to see someone taking action. So don't get hung up on the idea that someones day was actually ruined, thats not the point, the point is people thought this would be a cool thing to participate in and instead they were tricked into believing Dr. Pepper would make good on their promise.

[FunkyMonkey]

From MTV...

Let me get this straight. Dr Pepper lays down the gauntlet for Axl Rose and dares him to release Chinese Democracy this year by promising to give everyone in America a free soda if the reclusive rocker can finally pull the trigger on the mythological unicorn of an album. So Axl delivers and ? Dr Pepper doesn?t? Nice work, soda jerk.

http://newsroom.mtv.com/2008/12/01/guns-n-roses-blast-dr-pepper-over-flubbed-chinese-democracy-promotion/

[Cake]

Dr Pepper were piggybacking Axl and the band for a bit of publicity. They should have done what they promised when they made the claim in the first place.

I have to say I agree with Axl's stance, I would probably have done the same!