Chinese Democracy HTGTH member reviews

[EvilSmurf]

This album is amazing. Its definitely an progression of the UYI sound, its definitely a GUNS N' ROSES album. Axl had a vision and stayed true to it and unfortunately it led to the deterioration of his relationship with the old gunners. But the end result is Chinese Democracy. It will take me personally many many more listens to fully appreciate all the songs. And maybe the general public years. Right now, alot of critics don't f-ing get it but those same critics would pan it if it were a boring blues based rock AFD wannabe.

I cant help but think about the Brian Wilson saga with the Beach Boys. Everybody gushes about what a brilliant songwriter he is nowadays with Pet Sounds but at the time I think Pet Sounds didn't sell very well. Like Chinese Democracy, it was filled to the brim with complex arrangements, various instruments, vocals, etc. (in other words, "overproduced"). Wilson had an even more ambitious vision with Smile but when the other Beach Boys members like Mike Love heard the music and song ideas, they didn't "get it" and pretty much had the project shelved. This totally destroyed Brian Wilson's psyche and led to his infamous seclusion and mental illness.

I can't help but feel happy that Axl was finally able to get this thing out after 17 years instead of the 30 years it took Wilson to release Smile.

[Mal Brossard]

Here's an abridged version of my review posted to a baseball board where we were discussing the album...

"Seems like forever and a day," laments Axl Rose at the beginning of the final track on Chinese Democracy, a six-minute orgy of mechanical rapture known as "Prostitute."

And it does. The making of a new Guns N' Roses album dates back to 1993. The band had completed their long tour in support of the Use Your Illusion albums, and was preparing new music for a new untitled album.

(Removed: my writings on the history of CD)

So here we are, with history's most anticipated rock album in our hands. What do we do? Forget about the past, forget about the history that I mentioned, forget about what's riding on it for Axl et. al. Let's give it a listen...

TRACK ONE: CHINESE DEMOCRACY
CD, as we call it in the GNR fan community, has been in the works since at least 2000, perhaps earlier. The intro in it was added in 2007. The song starts out with an intro consisting of people speaking in Chinese, an oboe-like sound (perhaps an erhu), and a thumping heartbeat sound with plucked strings. Then the guitars kick in along with one of Axl's trademark screams and some hardcore power chords from Paul Tobias and Richard Fortus. The song features a lower-register Axl and a traditional quasi-screamed Axl, singing about the abuses of the Chinese government and its hopeful eventual downfall: "Blame if on the Falun Gong/They've seen the end/And you can't hold on now." The song is densely layered with pounding guitars, a couple of screaming guitar solos from Finck and Bucket, and an ending that leaves you hanging, almost begging for more. I give it an 8/10.

TRACK TWO: SHACKLER'S REVENGE
Shackler's Revenge was not even known about until August of 2008 when the announcement of Rock Band 2 became public. The song has some definite influences from Buckethead, and may be related in some way to his song "Shackler." The intro is awkward but thumps into a driving beat with Axl's deep and ominous sounding voice talking about "[A] funny feeling/There's something wrong today." Once again, the rhythm guitars are heavy and thick with a driving drum line from Brain. The song will appeal to fans looking for the hard-rocking tracks GNR was famous for, but at the same time it comes with an almost industrial thrust that seems a tad overdone. For that, I give it a 6/10 and wonder how the hell anyone could possibly play the crazy solo from Bumblefoot on Rock Band 2.

TRACK THREE: BETTER
This one was listed by Axl as one of his favorite songs just a week before it leaked in 2006. Coincidence? Perhaps. This is one of the album's more radio-friendly songs, and was chosen as the album's second single. Starting with a falsetto-singing Axl and a drum-machine beat, it quickly shifts into a driving rocker with Axl screaming about someone who done him wrong: "I never wanted you to be so full of anger/I never wanted you to be somebody else" he sings in the bridge, continuing to say, "I never wanted you to be someone afraid to know themselves/I only wanted you to see things for yourself." Who knows who it's directed at? Axl has had so many feuds over the past 20, 15, even 10 years that it could be any number of people. My own views: I'm not a huge fan of it, possibly because I've heard it so damn much since it leaked in 2006 and have burned myself out on it (though for the record, it hasn't happened with the other two leaks from that year). But I still have to give it a score of 9/10.

TRACK FOUR: STREET OF DREAMS
This song has undergone so many changes since its debut in 2000, even changing its name from The Blues to Street Of Dreams. The piano intro is still there but now it has a quieter start to it after the starting six bars. Whereas it originally kicked into a rocker right then, it now has a more muted distorted guitar and orchestra, then goes back to quiet and introspective again before kicking out into an Elton John-style semi-ballad, featuring a Finck-followed-by-Bucketh ead solo that should appeal to anyone anywhere who calls themselves a rock fan, recalling strains of an almost David Gilmour or Brian May style with a technical prowess that only the man under the chicken bucket can nail perfectly. I love the added strings to it that never were there in the live versions. This is as close as I can find to a perfect song, and because of that, it has to get a 10/10.

TRACK FIVE: IF THE WORLD
To me, a song like this is why Slash left. While they wanted to keep rolling with their original blues-based rock sounds, Axl wanted to expand. He was listening to a lot of different styles of music, and was becoming influenced by the industrial sounds of Nine Inch Nails and Ministry, and was quoted in 1999 as saying he "really liked the new Fiona Apple" album. Not what you'd expect to hear from someone heavily influenced by Queen, Elton John, Hanoi Rocks, the New York Dolls, and Nazareth. Axl wanted to stretch his horizons and does it here. No industrial sounds, but certainly not the GNR norm. If The World sounds like the theme to a future James Bond film (maybe it should replace that Jack White/Alicia Keys effort that radio hosts Bob and Tom saying "what a turd would sound like if it made a sound" that is the theme of the newest Bond film), with a wah-guitar-heavy base, flamenco-style guitar from Buckethead showing strains similar to what one would find on his album "Electric Tears," followed by a soulful solo similar to what one would see from the "Colma" album. The song gets in a good slow funk groove all the way through and is one of my favorites. I give it a 9/10.

(continued)

[Mal Brossard]

TRACK SIX: THERE WAS A TIME
I have seen the future of rock music, and it is this song. The song starts out with a chorus of "aaah's" and some heavy booming sounds, as Axl sets the scene: "Broken glass and cigarrettes/Writing on the wall/It was a bargain for the summer/And I thought I had it all," before things turn to for the worse for him. Whoever made him feel like he had everything turned on him and here he was screaming like a banshee about her. The song is loaded: six guitarists including Rose himself, piano by Tobias, horns, two full orchestras conducted by Paul Buckmaster and Marco Beltrami, a mellotron, two bass players, three keyboard players, two drummers, and three guitar solos, two from Robin Finck and one from Buckethead. It sounds like it would be messy, but the sound is remarkably tight and well-assembled. It is big, but not overblown. Perhaps I'm biased because I love this song and learned to play all the guitar parts (minus the killswitch portion of Buckethead's solo), but to me, this is where rock should be headed. I have to give this song a 10/10. To quote a former bandmate of mine, James Capone of CC40, "Love it or f**k off."

TRACK SEVEN: CATCHER IN THE RYE
The leaked track was legen-WAIT FOR IT... ... ... ... dary! Piano that sounded like Elton John or Freddie Mercury was sitting down to play, with a guitar solo from Brian May. Had someone told me Queen did it, I would have believed it, except for the part where Axl Rose was singing it. The final version is similar. The piano sounds different, there's an early guitar part added in the intro, and May's parts were dropped (shame, really), but otherwise the song is still very good. To me, it's a little too layered now though. Plans originally called for this song to be on the final of three albums (the three-album plan is still in the works, I hear), but the reception to the leak may have caused its movement to Chinese Democracy. Honestly, I like the leaked version better. There's a little too much in this one and it overshadows the excellent lyrics by Axl. I give it a 6/10.

TRACK EIGHT: SCRAPED
The first truly new song for me. I have nothing to which I can compare it, as it never leaked. Its existence was not known until about a month and a half ago. The opening features some trademark Axl screams, then kicks in with a tom-heavy drum beat and grooving distorted guitar that slides around a bit. Axl kicks into the verses in a medium-register, alternating with his screamed voice. "All things are possible/I am unstoppable," sings Rose in a tale of how no one will hold him down anymore. "No one can make you/Do what they want you to/You know that you're stronger/Than the lies/That they tell you." A rare moment of Axl taking a break from his angsty tales of getting screwed over, to give a moment of encouragement to someone. On this my second listen, I like this song more, and it should greatly appeal to an AFD-era fan. I give it a solid 8/10.

TRACK NINE: RIAD N' THE BEDOUINS
Another one that has undergone a few minor changes, notably the intro. A "riad" is a Moroccan palace with an interior garden, while "bedouins" are nomads in the Sahara. What exactly is the song about? I'm still not sure. I liked the live versions of this song a lot more than the final studio version, and don't have much to say on it. I give it a 4/10.

TRACK TEN: SORRY
Another new one, Axl rates this as another of his favorites. The song is slow, with a heavy and slow drum beat. I could almost hear Staind doing this more than Axl and the Gunners. Sebastian Bach is featured on some backing vocals. His description of the song as being almost a "doom metal" are far off though. I really like it though, Axl's vocals and lyrics are great, and everything fits well together. Buckethead's guitar solo is very Slash-like, and overall, the song could have easily fit on the Use Your Illusion albums. I give it a 9/10.

TRACK ELEVEN: IRS
The original leaked track, IRS has been known about since at least 2003 when it appeared on Eddie Trunk's show. Trunk said it was a UYI-style song with some modern flairs, a description that pretty much hits things right on the head. Axl says it's a song about tax evasion, but I think it goes much further than that. There's an anger and a paranoia there, as Axl sings about sending the president, a private eye, the IRS, and the FBI after someone who wronged him (anyone noticing a pattern here or is it just me?). Buckethead's speed-laden solo sends the song into a seemingly-uncontrolled barreling off a cliff before coming to a quiet and safe landing with Axl realizing "There's not anymore that I can do." I could see an awesome music video being made for this song. Another one that I have to give a 10/10. This beats anything on the radio today.

TRACK TWELVE: MADAGASCAR
Holy complexities Batman! How many songs can you find that sample Martin Luther King Jr., Braveheart, The Casualties of War, Se7en, Mississippi Burning, and Cool Hand Luke, along with French horns, five guitar players (including some awesome lead work by the B Boys, Bumblefoot and Buckethead), two bassists, Beltrami and Buckmaster's orchestras, and something called sub-bass? Well, you have it here. And once again, it all fits together without being too messy and without anything drowning out anything else. Madagascar hasn't gone through many changes since 2000 (dare I say even no changes?), and is as impressive as it was when I first heard it. It's great, but not the strongest on the album, as I have to give it an 8/10.

TRACK THIRTEEN: THIS I LOVE
Axl has been sitting on this song since 1993, at least, and some call it a sequel to UYI2's magnum opus, Estranged. Axl's feelings of hurt and deep despair from the song are still here, and the song is for the most part stripped down: just Axl and his piano with some harp from Patti Hood at first. The lyrics are a tad weak, but the song as a whole is possibly Axl's best work as the melodies more than make up for what the lyrics lack. By far, this is the heaviest song emotionally on the album. On my first listening, it sounded like something Andrew Lloyd Webber dropped from Phantom of the Opera, but after giving it a few more chances (this song leaked a few days ago, so I heard it then), you realize there's more to the song than what is being sung. The emotions are expressed through everything: the piano, the tone and melody of Axl's voice, the orchestra, and most of all, Robin Finck's solo. A week ago, I would have scored the song a 4. After giving it another chance or two, I give it a solid 9/10.

TRACK FOURTEEN: PROSTITUTE
So that's it folks: the end of our journey. But not before we hit what I feel is the best and strongest track on the album. Or at least my favorite. Axl and his piano start things off again, with a hip-hop style beat behind it all (by the way, Axl played the piano part here as part of his pre-November Rain piano solo on the 2002 tour). It comes in quietly, almost apologetically. And then Axl's bitterness toward his former bandmates slowly builds with the orchestra playing the hell out of their violins behind a wall of rhythm guitar and intense leads: "Ask yourself/Why I would choose/To prostitute myself/To live with fortune and shame." And as the crescendo builds over the final section, it ends, almost walking away leaving you to pick up the pieces from an intense Buckethead shred, some extra piano notes, and slowly, those opening chords as everything fades away slowly, giving you a moment to recover from the 70-minute emotional roller coaster that just pulled into the station. It's a 10/10.

And as the final chords and orchestral lines of the song fade, you decide you simply must listen to it all again. Fifteen years of thought, of work, of waiting, of changes, and of music as a whole have come and passed. Has it been worth the wait? I certainly think so. Does it live up to the hype? Close, but it comes a little short, but how can anyone really meet the expectations of a project like this one? You set the bar high, people think you need to go higher, and you almost set yourself up for failure. Axl didn't exactly fail, but he didn't succeed either. But let's not forget, this is just the beginning. Who knows what could happen from here-- with two more albums in various stages of completion, an ever-quickly-changing world around us, both in the world music alone and in the entire world as a whole, perhaps this album could spark a new direction of rock, either in those attempting to copy, or those attempting to go in a completely different direction.

At the very least, Axl should prove all doubters wrong: he can complete an album, he can write significant and superior music with out Slash, Duff, and Izzy, and he's simply been misunderstood over all these crazy years.

My score: Chinese Democracy as a whole gets a 9/10.

[sapiec]

I will not start a song by song review, other people's comments pretty much say it all

My input at this point is that all songs on the album have killer guitar solos/melodies
It's been a while since i heard a rock album with such good guitars

[sandman]

i love the album. it's exceeded my expectations. there's some materpieces on there, some great rockers, some new and interesting things. it's different. he's manage to combine many influences together to create something that sounds really fresh and unique.

there's no tracks that i hate. at times there's probably a little too much going on in a few songs, which i think takes away from some of the melodies. but at no point does it ruin a song. it's just alot to take in at times, which actually  works real well in some songs.

overall, i give the album a solid 9 (out of 10). 

[Mobenrad]

Before the album came out, I hadn't heard only 3 songs on the album. I was listening to I.R.S., Madagascar, Chinese Democracy, Better, There Was a Time, and The Blues my freshmen year in highschool.  Now I'm a senior and the damn album finally came out.

Chinese Democracy is a good song, a good strong rocker. However, I don't like how the intro is in peices and builds up, I wish it was the same as the RIR3 version. I also don't like how they changed the drum beat and took out the double-snare hit in the verses.

All in all I like all the songs except Scraped. I really can't stand that fucking song to be quite honest.

In my opinion, the greatest accomplishment of this album is that Axl had respect to both Buckethead and Paul Tobias enough to keep their parts. I love that Buckethead's solos are right next to Ron's.

A lot of haters have said, "It's not even Guns N' Roses; they should just call it Axl Rose's Band." Well, this album completely disproves that, because you can tell where each member contributed. There is no way anyone besides Buckethead wrote the music for Shacker's Revenge and Sorry. Those are dead-on Buckethead songs with Axl singing over them. Axl's not the only one working his ass off on these sings. Each member adds their bit, and it really shows. So screw the haters. This is a band, not a solo project.

Chinese Democracy - 7/10
Shackler's Revenge - 7.5/10
Better - 9/10
The Blues - 9/10
If the World - 10/10
There Was a Time - 10/10
Catcher in the Rye - 10/10
Scraped - 4/10
Riad N' The Bedouins - 6/10
Sorry - 9/10
I.R.S. - 9/10
Madgascar - 9/10
This I Love - 10/10
Prostitute - 10/10

OVERALL: 8/10

[BangoSkank]

The whole thing is fucking awesome.  It's Guns N' Roses of the future.  With the exception of "This I Love", a song leaves me astounded that no one pulled Axl aside and went "you really gotta do something about these lyrics... they could have been ripped out of a 15 year-old girl's diary or a Backstreet Boys songbook."

Madagascar, Shackler's Revenge, I.R.S. all completely great.

[Thorned Rose]

I think that it's stupid that Pitman has a Sub Bass in like every song....


get real... they need a sub bass?

[King Axl]

I'll offer a letter grade for each individual song, then an overall grade for the album as a whole.

Chinese Democracy: B
Shackler's Revenge: B
Better: B+
Street Of Dreams: A-
If The World: A-
There Was A Time: A-
Catcher In The Rye: C+
Scraped: A-
Riad N' The Bedouins: B+
Sorry: B
I.R.S.: B
Madagascar: B+
This I Love: A
Prostitute: A

Overall Grade: A-

[IKnowWhereIAM]

I think that it's stupid that Pitman has a Sub Bass in like every song....


get real... they need a sub bass?

I think Pitman had MAJOR input on this album, and while I still have no idea what a 'sub-bass' is (is it something only dogs can hear?) - I have to assume he is responsible for what I feel is the weakest part of the album - the 'every song gets an artsy intro' thing.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

I think that it's stupid that Pitman has a Sub Bass in like every song....


get real... they need a sub bass?

Yes, yes they do.

[Howard2k]

Not an ITW thread....

But - I heard the leak of this one and it just didn't grab me.  In fact I anticipated that it would be the first song from CD to get the skip treatment.   But listening to the CD for the first time (just got back from vacay out of the country) it's ironically the first song to get a second listen. 

Shackler's felt a little different than it did on my Xbox too.   And there are different touches in Better and SOD.   

I'm sure that this is not the first or last thread like this of its kind, but fucking good job Axl and company.   I fucking love this disc.   

[Buddha_Master]

Chinese Democracy isn't just everything I expected but, it's better. It is better then I ever imagined.

I used to say that there was a song somewhere in GN'R's catalog to fit whatever mood you were in. But, now I know a new truth. That there is a song somewhere on Chinese Democracy to fit whatever mood I am in.

[Cool side note, I just downloaded Burnout Paradise for the PS3, and Paradise City is the theme and is playing right now on the menu screen as I type this(I forgot about that heh).]

Chinese Democracy is soooo good. It is better then it had any right to be. Axl is right. He didn't owe us a goddamn thing. BUt he gave us Chinese Democracy anyway. This really is a gift.

[faldor]

Agreed, it exceeded my expectations and I didn't think that was possible.  I admittedly caved and downloaded the leaks like most back in June, so I was a little worried that I had already heard the best songs on the album.  But I have to say, those songs still sound fantastic, most better than ever.  And the 3 songs I hadn't heard are quickly becoming favorites, especially Scraped and Sorry.  I honestly don't know how this album could've been any better.

[MrMojoRa]

Chinese Democracy isn't just everything I expected but, it's better. It is better then I ever imagined.

I used to say that there was a song somewhere in GN'R's catalog to fit whatever mood you were in. But, now I know a new truth. That there is a song somewhere on Chinese Democracy to fit whatever mood I am in.

[Cool side note, I just downloaded Burnout Paradise for the PS3, and Paradise City is the theme and is playing right now on the menu screen as I type this(I forgot about that heh).]

Chinese Democracy is soooo good. It is better then it had any right to be. Axl is right. He didn't owe us a goddamn thing. BUt he gave us Chinese Democracy anyway. This really is a gift.

Amen Buddha.........AMEN!!!

[turbosmash]

Now that the album is out, what are everyones thoughts about the album honestly. I think its a good album, but I honestly have to say I expected more rock songs, I do like some of the new songs(ballads) but I really am getting into the song Chinese Democracy more and wish there were more songs like that. What does everyone else think? And once again I am not bashing the album at all, I preordered it and was there sunday morning like all the other fans, I just want some honest opinions.

[GNR4L]

I will now give my school grading of Chinese Democracy 


Chinese Democracy: C+

Shacklers Revenge: B-

Better: A-

Street Of Dreams: B+

If The World: A-

There Was A Time: B+

Catcher In The Rye: A

Riad N' The Bedouins: B+

Scraped: C-

Sorry: A-

IRS: B-

Madagascar: B-

This I Love: B

Prostitute: B+




Overall Grade: B+


Top 3 Favorites

1. Better
2. Riad N' The Bedouins
3. If The World


Only song I don't necessary like but i'll listen to is Scraped.

[COMAMOTIVE]

The sound on the album has surpassed my expectations

I think the sound is amazing , I think the songs are amazing and I'm enjoying it more each day

I don't love the order of the songs, but what can you do?

[Yesterday]

Well I've had the album for 3 days now and here's my 2 cents:

After the first listen, I was excited, yet someone taken aback.  I tried to put in my mind that any expectations I had or could hope for should be cast aside.  I mean I was 17 when TSI was relased and haved waited for this moment for over 15 years.  I did shed a few tears during the first listen.  After further (and further and further) listens, trying to categorize this album is hard as hell.  I didn't expect Appetite, Lies or TSI.  I think I can say it is USI I and II, tenfold.  You can hear every influence/inspiration Axl has ever had in music.  From himself, to Elton John, to Freddie Mercury/Queen, Pink Floyd,etc.  Newer influences like Rob Zombie.  This is one hell of an album to be frank.  The technology is so in your face.  The last time he recorded an album must seem like the stone age to Axl.  There is no "downtime" in any of the songs.  Is it a hard rock record?  At times.  It is a rock record, at times.  To me it is 14 songs that pack a punch in all forms of music today and yesterday.  The set backs for me are who is in the band at this point.  Everyone who worked on it has credit.  But again a singer, 2 guitars, bass, and drums wouldn't have cut it in this version of Gn'R.  This is a band making great music.  Do I miss Slash, yes, but this is the Gn'R Axl probably envisioned a long time ago.  The liners notes are great, the art work great, the lyrics, well I don't blame the band for that.  I won't give a run down of all the songs, but wach one is unique in its own way.  Are there classics, yes I believe there are.  The flow of the album is not bad, but could be better.  I think this will be an album that we the hardcore fans will love, and like Appetite will catch on in due time.  I am not comparing it to Appetite, but I think it will take time to catch on.  I think this will be a successful album and Axl and company should be proud.  Was it worth the wait? As Axl once said live your life.  I did and waited to hear Axl again. And it was worth it.  There will be haters and we need to expect that.  I give this a 4 out of 5 star rating and hope that Axl and company will capture the music world by storm again.

2 side notes:
--Jarmo good to see you thank ed, you deserve it as you run a great site.

--I have heard people bitch already as to this is Appetite, well no shit, you can't write about the streets, drugs, or anything on that album anymore if you had become a huge rockstar and live in a beautiful house and have some money.  Not knocking Axl, people have to understand he has gown in the last 15 years, and is truly a great frontman, songwriter and musician.  Peace..

[estebanf]

this will not be a review, just my first impressions about the album.

I will be doing a heavy and big review later, but I need to give the disc a few more listens:


* All songs are incredibly produced, they all sound heavy and harmonious at the same time.

* The new intro of Street Of Dreams, which I used to consider flawless, perfect, is now even better. Loved it. Same for the new vocal lines Axl added at the end.

* If The World turned to me, from being an average song, to be a masterpiece. One of the highlights of the album, heavy as hell, with a lot of unreal SFX and a fantastic ending.

* Catcher In The Rye, a song that never really impressed me, its ANOTHER of the skyrocketing high points of the album. Absolutely differente from the leak, and even when I love Brian May a lot (I saw him live last friday and he rocked), I must say Bumblefoot's guitar solo is ELEVEN THOUSAND MILLION TIMES better than Brian's. Loved the track, amazing, fantastic. I dont know what more can I say.

* Riad (you might say i'm insane, you may say ''what the hell are you writing asshole'', you can say whatever you want about the lines I'm going to type) is (at least, with only one listen) the VERY BEST FUCKING ROCKER SONG of this band, and the second best song of the album. Absolutely mindblowing, terrific, outstanding, superb song, full of rage and strength, with that incredible new intro that I KNOW i will listen when I put my seatbelts on, preparing myself to drive at 150 km/h like a maniac while the rest of the track goes on... and that Bumblefoot solo its a freaking-fucking atomic bomb. Perfect song, better than any other rocker GNR has done before, guess what? even better than jungle, ISE, and any hard track I've heard before. I'll give it a 14 out of 10. INSANE track.

* I.R.S now sounds like it should always have sound: with the beautiness of a studio recording, and the incredible ferocity of the live version at the end. Killer tune.

* Prostitute is fire and ice, softness and heavyness. Amazing drumming, and spectacular rhythmical base.

I wont be commenting on Scraped, This I Love and Sorry right now. I need to listen to them more times.

In this first listening, my top 5 is:

1) T.W.A.T (best song GNR has ever done, I said it the day it was leaked for the first time, and now I feel the same way)
2) Riad N' The Bedouins
3) Catcher In The Rye
4) If The World
5) Street Of Dreams