This I Love - discussion/comments

[ppbebe]

lean to matty's opinion.
however I can see it being played on the radios that are not rock stations. It would take the right moment and the right spot.

Ok. I just attended a TWILIGHT convention that was held at a hotel right next to the ALLSTATE ARENa in Rosemont where I last saw GNR in November of 2006. I was able to give out copies of Chinese Democracy to three of the actors from the film and to the people who run the TWILIGHT LEXICON website. I can be very intense when i am passionate about something, and I told them all that TIL could be Edward Cullen's theme song in NEW MOON and that it is OSCAR worthy! They all seemed excited to listen to it, and Ashley Greene said the producers ask for their input on what music makes the soundtrack! Ashley places Alice Cullen and Peter Facinelli plays Carlisle Cullen.  It was really cool to share my love of TIL with people who were involved with one of my all time favorite movies!

well done annie.

you're one of the few people whose actions speak louder than others words. 

[Wooody]

Hmm, Ill see the movie, and hope its not a teeny bopper movie. wouldnt like to see TIL in a teeny bopper movie

[Skunk]

The fact that it doesnt sound like a typical rock ballad is all the reason why it should be the next single...or the first "ballad" single. I rather them take a chance with TIL rather than releasing SOD. SOD is very good but too safe. They need to take chances. And this is the perfect song to take a chance with. They have nothing to lose. Plus this song can be played on 3 Major stations here in NY.

KRock,q104.3 and cough cough...z100

if it hits album sales will skyrocket....especially with the latter 2 stations.

Yeah but in fairness SOD could be played on those 3 stations too. Personally i hope they both get released. I'd like to see 5 singles released. Maybe 6 

[younggunner]

The fact that it doesnt sound like a typical rock ballad is all the reason why it should be the next single...or the first "ballad" single. I rather them take a chance with TIL rather than releasing SOD. SOD is very good but too safe. They need to take chances. And this is the perfect song to take a chance with. They have nothing to lose. Plus this song can be played on 3 Major stations here in NY.

KRock,q104.3 and cough cough...z100

if it hits album sales will skyrocket....especially with the latter 2 stations.

Yeah but in fairness SOD could be played on those 3 stations too. Personally i hope they both get released. I'd like to see 5 singles released. Maybe 6 

Yea SOD will def be played on Krock and q104.3 but I dont see it on z100

I think SOD will do well on q104.3 because of its older audience. SOD will be ok on Krock but I think TIL is the only cross over track on the album. imo TIL can cater to all 3 of those stations at the same time.

Ill be curious to see how SOD does because its probably the most UYI sounding song on the album.

[Skunk]

The fact that it doesnt sound like a typical rock ballad is all the reason why it should be the next single...or the first "ballad" single. I rather them take a chance with TIL rather than releasing SOD. SOD is very good but too safe. They need to take chances. And this is the perfect song to take a chance with. They have nothing to lose. Plus this song can be played on 3 Major stations here in NY.

KRock,q104.3 and cough cough...z100

if it hits album sales will skyrocket....especially with the latter 2 stations.

Yeah but in fairness SOD could be played on those 3 stations too. Personally i hope they both get released. I'd like to see 5 singles released. Maybe 6 

Yea SOD will def be played on Krock and q104.3 but I dont see it on z100

I think SOD will do well on q104.3 because of its older audience. SOD will be ok on Krock but I think TIL is the only cross over track on the album. imo TIL can cater to all 3 of those stations at the same time.

Ill be curious to see how SOD does because its probably the most UYI sounding song on the album.

You may be right about that (and honestly i haven't listened to z100 in a long time)... I imagine SOD would do well, but not overly so, if just for that reason. It's strength would be it's weakness. People will dig it because it's GNR and it sounds like what they used to like, but there will also be people who will dismiss it as old hat.
TIL is a curious case though because it's impossible for me to guess how much appeal it will or will not have to non-GNR fans or fans of lighter music. As this board has shown, it can be a favorite for some people, but it can also be completely disliked by others. I think it could do very well, but probably only with a big push to get it heard widely.

[Annie]

lean to matty's opinion.
however I can see it being played on the radios that are not rock stations. It would take the right moment and the right spot.

Ok. I just attended a TWILIGHT convention that was held at a hotel right next to the ALLSTATE ARENa in Rosemont where I last saw GNR in November of 2006. I was able to give out copies of Chinese Democracy to three of the actors from the film and to the people who run the TWILIGHT LEXICON website. I can be very intense when i am passionate about something, and I told them all that TIL could be Edward Cullen's theme song in NEW MOON and that it is OSCAR worthy! They all seemed excited to listen to it, and Ashley Greene said the producers ask for their input on what music makes the soundtrack! Ashley places Alice Cullen and Peter Facinelli plays Carlisle Cullen.  It was really cool to share my love of TIL with people who were involved with one of my all time favorite movies!

well done annie.

you're one of the few people whose actions speak louder than others words. 

Thankyou! It was so much fun to promote this great song!

[Buddha_Master]

Really love this song but... I really don't like the god stuff. There is nothing inherently wrong with Axl using this as I am sure he is religious (cross tats, cross necklace) but personally I have a problem with it. So it doesn't impact me like it would if god stayed the fuck out of the lyrics. I was just at my kids talent show. She was the best kid there by far. But man so much god shit by other kids I wanted to puke. One kid does this gospel thing like, "If you love the lord like I do, stand up." Jesus fucking christ.

I always feel like I must have taken crazy pills. Like everyone but me is drinking the kool aide. You want me to believe in an invisible man that not one shred of evidence supports actually existed. Yea alright. Yet, mounds of evidence supports the Big Bang theory and evolution but that must just be because of some evil plot and agenda by scientists. I heard an interview with that fucking cunty bitch Ann Culter the other night. She said how 80% of the prison population was made up of individuals raised by a single mom. This hypocritical far right wing zombie bitch. Of course she won't mention how only 2% of the entire prison population is made up of agnostics and atheists. Fuck you!

Anyway, I really dig Axl's expanding on bigger themes like the Universe here, and in ITW. But, adding god into the lyrics is a big step back in my humble opinion. Maybe my only real complaint with any of the lyrics on CD. Take it for what it is.

[Skunk]

Really love this song but... I really don't like the god stuff. There is nothing inherently wrong with Axl using this as I am sure he is religious (cross tats, cross necklace) but personally I have a problem with it. So it doesn't impact me like it would if god stayed the fuck out of the lyrics. I was just at my kids talent show. She was the best kid there by far. But man so much god shit by other kids I wanted to puke. One kid does this gospel thing like, "If you love the lord like I do, stand up." Jesus fucking christ.

I always feel like I must have taken crazy pills. Like everyone but me is drinking the kool aide. You want me to believe in an invisible man that not one shred of evidence supports actually existed. Yea alright. Yet, mounds of evidence supports the Big Bang theory and evolution but that must just be because of some evil plot and agenda by scientists. I heard an interview with that fucking cunty bitch Ann Culter the other night. She said how 80% of the prison population was made up of individuals raised by a single mom. This hypocritical far right wing zombie bitch. Of course she won't mention how only 2% of the entire prison population is made up of agnostics and atheists. Fuck you!

Anyway, I really dig Axl's expanding on bigger themes like the Universe here, and in ITW. But, adding god into the lyrics is a big step back in my humble opinion. Maybe my only real complaint with any of the lyrics on CD. Take it for what it is.

Dude regardless of personal beliefs you have to realize there are powerful intellectual arguments on both sides of the God issue. While you may have to deal with a lot of people who believe in God in a childish way, that doesn't represent the totality of the argument. The same is true for atheists. Just to take your examples, there is no reason someone can't believe in evolution and the big bang and still believe in God. Evolution explains the development of life but not the origin of it. Initially we find complex creatures and ask how they could be here by chance, but with Darwin we now find a mysterious and ordered method by which these creatures are developed, and that needs an explanation every bit as much as the creatures themselves. The big bang in many ways fits right in with the Christian notion of a creator God. If things which have beginnings also have causes, and the universe had a beginning, then it should have a cause. Theists believe that cause is a divine intelligence.
I'm sorry because that was totally off topic.

As far as having God in the lyrics, it's funny because i didn't even really think of it. I kind of took it in a more casual way, "i hope to god she hears me," kind of like "i hope to god it doesn't rain at the ball park." Just part of the language, kind of like how you expressed your exasperation at your kids talent show with "Jesus fucking christ."
But i guess you're right, and it really doesn't bother me. Guns N Roses might not be the best place for an overly religious sentiment, but if Axl believes in God an it comes through in his lyrics, that's just honest art. The public sphere has to be shared by all ideas, even ones that may feel widely and oppressively held. Trust me, there's a lot of secular opinion that theists wish they didn't have to hear too. That's the bitch about freedom.

[D]

Really love this song but... I really don't like the god stuff. There is nothing inherently wrong with Axl using this as I am sure he is religious (cross tats, cross necklace) but personally I have a problem with it. So it doesn't impact me like it would if god stayed the fuck out of the lyrics. I was just at my kids talent show. She was the best kid there by far. But man so much god shit by other kids I wanted to puke. One kid does this gospel thing like, "If you love the lord like I do, stand up." Jesus fucking christ.

I always feel like I must have taken crazy pills. Like everyone but me is drinking the kool aide. You want me to believe in an invisible man that not one shred of evidence supports actually existed. Yea alright. Yet, mounds of evidence supports the Big Bang theory and evolution but that must just be because of some evil plot and agenda by scientists. I heard an interview with that fucking cunty bitch Ann Culter the other night. She said how 80% of the prison population was made up of individuals raised by a single mom. This hypocritical far right wing zombie bitch. Of course she won't mention how only 2% of the entire prison population is made up of agnostics and atheists. Fuck you!

Anyway, I really dig Axl's expanding on bigger themes like the Universe here, and in ITW. But, adding god into the lyrics is a big step back in my humble opinion. Maybe my only real complaint with any of the lyrics on CD. Take it for what it is.

This post is interesting cause its like "WHERE THE FUCK is this coming from?" HAHA

Most random shit I think I've ever seen posted ever

I take it you aren't a fan of Oh My God,Garden of Eden,The Garden or Knocking on Heaven's Door either!


maybe Right Next Door To Hell is your favorite?

[Buddha_Master]

Really love this song but... I really don't like the god stuff. There is nothing inherently wrong with Axl using this as I am sure he is religious (cross tats, cross necklace) but personally I have a problem with it. So it doesn't impact me like it would if god stayed the fuck out of the lyrics. I was just at my kids talent show. She was the best kid there by far. But man so much god shit by other kids I wanted to puke. One kid does this gospel thing like, "If you love the lord like I do, stand up." Jesus fucking christ.

I always feel like I must have taken crazy pills. Like everyone but me is drinking the kool aide. You want me to believe in an invisible man that not one shred of evidence supports actually existed. Yea alright. Yet, mounds of evidence supports the Big Bang theory and evolution but that must just be because of some evil plot and agenda by scientists. I heard an interview with that fucking cunty bitch Ann Culter the other night. She said how 80% of the prison population was made up of individuals raised by a single mom. This hypocritical far right wing zombie bitch. Of course she won't mention how only 2% of the entire prison population is made up of agnostics and atheists. Fuck you!

Anyway, I really dig Axl's expanding on bigger themes like the Universe here, and in ITW. But, adding god into the lyrics is a big step back in my humble opinion. Maybe my only real complaint with any of the lyrics on CD. Take it for what it is.

Dude regardless of personal beliefs you have to realize there are powerful intellectual arguments on both sides of the God issue. While you may have to deal with a lot of people who believe in God in a childish way, that doesn't represent the totality of the argument. The same is true for atheists. Just to take your examples, there is no reason someone can't believe in evolution and the big bang and still believe in God. Evolution explains the development of life but not the origin of it. Initially we find complex creatures and ask how they could be here by chance, but with Darwin we now find a mysterious and ordered method by which these creatures are developed, and that needs an explanation every bit as much as the creatures themselves. The big bang in many ways fits right in with the Christian notion of a creator God. If things which have beginnings also have causes, and the universe had a beginning, then it should have a cause. Theists believe that cause is a divine intelligence.
I'm sorry because that was totally off topic.

As far as having God in the lyrics, it's funny because i didn't even really think of it. I kind of took it in a more casual way, "i hope to god she hears me," kind of like "i hope to god it doesn't rain at the ball park." Just part of the language, kind of like how you expressed your exasperation at your kids talent show with "Jesus fucking christ."
But i guess you're right, and it really doesn't bother me. Guns N Roses might not be the best place for an overly religious sentiment, but if Axl believes in God an it comes through in his lyrics, that's just honest art. The public sphere has to be shared by all ideas, even ones that may feel widely and oppressively held. Trust me, there's a lot of secular opinion that theists wish they didn't have to hear too. That's the bitch about freedom.

The "jesus fucking Christ" was a poor attempt at a joke but, yea I know what you are saying. Where me and you defer is that I don't think someone can intellectually argue that a god had a hand in anything at all. Back in ancient times people had no science or means to explain why things are, and gods were used to explain the unknown. That is how it has always been. But as time goes on we have science and things that were once unknown to us have been explained through science. So why would anyone with any reasonable intelligence not come to the same conclusion about the things that are unknown to us now, in this moment in history? Isn't that the only logical conclusion. That all things, if we can manage to survive long enough, will be explained through science? That is how it was, that is how it will be again.

I take it you aren't a fan of Oh My God,Garden of Eden,The Garden or Knocking on Heaven's Door either! 


maybe Right Next Door To Hell is your favorite?

Well, yea there isn't a hell either. So good of the Christians to create this nonsense. I think George Carlin said it best;

"Religion has convinced people that there?s an invisible man?living in the sky, who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn?t want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer and burn and scream until the end of time.....But he loves you! He loves you and he needs money!"

Maybe people should just do the right thing because we know its the right thing to do. Not doing what we think is right out of fear of some god.

Now, break this down for me. What about the Garden has anything to do with a God? Regarding Oh my god, I think it is how Skunk suggests. Its just something so engraved into our language. Saying oh my god or jesus fucking christ, is just casual language. Adjectives that we use not really meaning god at all. I think Saying "Oh my god" is a lot different then saying "Please God you must believe me." KOHD. Beautiful song, and I get where Dylan was going with the perspective. 

Anyway, I think the idea of a god, is also a really ancient obsolete one. If the world just let go of their fear and embraced science, we could live like how people like John Lennon and Gene Roddenberry described. Its really the only way to achieve peace, and to move humankind into a bold new future working together for the betterment of our race. I think as much of a fan of Lennon's as Axl is would maybe have already come to this conclusion. With all the changing seasons of his life maybe Axl will get it right next time.

edit: I just want to add that I think the lyrics in Chinese Democracy are so beautiful and so inspirational. I really really love them. I think that is why the line in this chorus of This I love stuck out for me. Axl's words have some kind of weird effect on me. They always have. His words mean more to me then maybe any others (not including the Beatles). So I take much of what Axl writes to heart. That is why this kind of bothers me.

[Annie]

I think Axl believes in God. There is alot of beautiful Christ imagery in ESTRANGED, and he wears beautiful crucifixes. He probably has a more open minded view of God than the beliefs he was taught as a child. I love the pathos in his voice in TIL when he says, "Dear God you must believe me."

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

I really hate nutjob religious fundamentalists as much as I hate hardcore atheists.

I really don't want to hear about anyone's personal beliefs, and to have someone get all up in my face about it.

You believe in God, fantastic.

You're an atheist, groovy.

Just keep your shit to yourself.  That's not just going out to Buddha, but to everyone.  One of the most annoying things to me in life is having someone preach their beliefs to you.

I think Axl believes in God. There is alot of beautiful Christ imagery in ESTRANGED, and he wears beautiful crucifixes. He probably has a more open minded view of God than the beliefs he was taught as a child. I love the pathos in his voice in TIL when he says, "Dear God you must believe me."

In this song, I personally feel the heft of Axl's struggles as he expresses them in this song.  I don't go on and cry about it like others in this thread, but he gets his point across very well.  And I always think about the women that have been in my life and I find myself relating to the lyrics.  Great thing about Guns N' Roses, I tell you.  There is something in every song someone can relate to.

[Skunk]

The "jesus fucking Christ" was a poor attempt at a joke but, yea I know what you are saying. Where me and you defer is that I don't think someone can intellectually argue that a god had a hand in anything at all. Back in ancient times people had no science or means to explain why things are, and gods were used to explain the unknown. That is how it has always been. But as time goes on we have science and things that were once unknown to us have been explained through science. So why would anyone with any reasonable intelligence not come to the same conclusion about the things that are unknown to us now, in this moment in history? Isn't that the only logical conclusion. That all things, if we can manage to survive long enough, will be explained through science? That is how it was, that is how it will be again.

It's a logical conclusion, but no it's not the only one. To me science is the study of the natural world, and religion and theology concern themselves with matters of the supernatural. The idea that science and religion are incompatible, or that one will explain everything and the other nothing is I think crap. The basic issues dealt with by religion may very well be exactly the type that science can't answer. Even if religion gets it wrong, that may still be true.
I also think it's a little naive, or at least overly idealistic, to think that embracing science will help usher in an era of peace. You take away religious differences and people still have national and cultural divides to overcome. Most religious wars aren't really about religion, but rather land or freedom, and really, how many people died in the 20th century at the hands of secular regimes? It's been said that war is the science of inefficiency and peace is the inefficiency of science. It's human nature, not religion, that causes us to pursue better bombs. Science is a tool, nothing more.

Dylan is an example of a guy who has put Christianity into some of his songs in a pretty heavy way, unlike what we're talking about here with TIL. I see the point about "please God you must believe me" being different than "oh my god," in that it's a pleading and personification. Thinking of it now, it actually adds a lot of power to the song... as if stressing the importance of this. It's a pretty severe heartbreak that makes someone turn to God like that. The lyrics to TIL are at times the kind of thing you could imagine someone sobbing. Even an atheist has to admit there's a kind of poetry that's hard to top in reaching for God, because even if you don't believe, still the concept of appealing to omnipotence represents the extremity of the emotion. Imagine if the lyric was "please dear you must believe me." I think it would lose something on intensity and effect.

I really hate nutjob religious fundamentalists as much as I hate hardcore atheists.

I really don't want to hear about anyone's personal beliefs, and to have someone get all up in my face about it.

You believe in God, fantastic.

You're an atheist, groovy.

Just keep your shit to yourself.  That's not just going out to Buddha, but to everyone.  One of the most annoying things to me in life is having someone preach their beliefs to you.

I can hear that, but while i don't ever want to bother people with my beliefs, it's also not a topic I shy away from, and I don't think people on either side, as wacky as they may be, should have to silence their expression if they feel a certain way, which is I guess what is at heart here. Buddha was turned off by God being in TIL. I think we should always consider other people's feelings, sure, but i also think your freedom to express your beliefs outweighs someone else's minor aggravation at it. It sucks if an artist goes a certain way that makes it harder for you to enjoy their art, because you disagree with their philosophy, but you can still respect the honesty of that artist and his output. I feel that way about various artists.
Anyway i'm saying sorry if the convo bothered you here, and i think if i didn't always enjoy and respect Buddha's posts i might not have engaged him on the topic. I realize it's partially off topic, so i'll refrain in the future.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

The "jesus fucking Christ" was a poor attempt at a joke but, yea I know what you are saying. Where me and you defer is that I don't think someone can intellectually argue that a god had a hand in anything at all. Back in ancient times people had no science or means to explain why things are, and gods were used to explain the unknown. That is how it has always been. But as time goes on we have science and things that were once unknown to us have been explained through science. So why would anyone with any reasonable intelligence not come to the same conclusion about the things that are unknown to us now, in this moment in history? Isn't that the only logical conclusion. That all things, if we can manage to survive long enough, will be explained through science? That is how it was, that is how it will be again.

It's a logical conclusion, but no it's not the only one. To me science is the study of the natural world, and religion and theology concern themselves with matters of the supernatural. The idea that science and religion are incompatible, or that one will explain everything and the other nothing is I think crap. The basic issues dealt with by religion may very well be exactly the type that science can't answer. Even if religion gets it wrong, that may still be true.
I also think it's a little naive, or at least overly idealistic, to think that embracing science will help usher in an era of peace. You take away religious differences and people still have national and cultural divides to overcome. Most religious wars aren't really about religion, but rather land or freedom, and really, how many people died in the 20th century at the hands of secular regimes? It's been said that war is the science of inefficiency and peace is the inefficiency of science. It's human nature, not religion, that causes us to pursue better bombs. Science is a tool, nothing more.

Dylan is an example of a guy who has put Christianity into some of his songs in a pretty heavy way, unlike what we're talking about here with TIL. I see the point about "please God you must believe me" being different than "oh my god," in that it's a pleading and personification. Thinking of it now, it actually adds a lot of power to the song... as if stressing the importance of this. It's a pretty severe heartbreak that makes someone turn to God like that. The lyrics to TIL are at times the kind of thing you could imagine someone sobbing. Even an atheist has to admit there's a kind of poetry that's hard to top in reaching for God, because even if you don't believe, still the concept of appealing to omnipotence represents the extremity of the emotion. Imagine if the lyric was "please dear you must believe me." I think it would lose something on intensity and effect.

I really hate nutjob religious fundamentalists as much as I hate hardcore atheists.

I really don't want to hear about anyone's personal beliefs, and to have someone get all up in my face about it.

You believe in God, fantastic.

You're an atheist, groovy.

Just keep your shit to yourself.  That's not just going out to Buddha, but to everyone.  One of the most annoying things to me in life is having someone preach their beliefs to you.

I can hear that, but while i don't ever want to bother people with my beliefs, it's also not a topic I shy away from, and I don't think people on either side, as wacky as they may be, should have to silence their expression if they feel a certain way, which is I guess what is at heart here. Buddha was turned off by God being in TIL. I think we should always consider other people's feelings, sure, but i also think your freedom to express your beliefs outweighs someone else's minor aggravation at it. It sucks if an artist goes a certain way that makes it harder for you to enjoy their art, because you disagree with their philosophy, but you can still respect the honesty of that artist and his output. I feel that way about various artists.
Anyway i'm saying sorry if the convo bothered you here, and i think if i didn't always enjoy and respect Buddha's posts i might not have engaged him on the topic. I realize it's partially off topic, so i'll refrain in the future.

Pal, I have no problem with Axl or anyone using God in their art.

[Skunk]

Pal, I have no problem with Axl or anyone using God in their art.

Yeah i didn't really mean you specifically, i should have been clear.

Rather i just mean that it can be hard to find the right balance between speaking ones mind and still making it a comfortable thing. Buddha's initial post showed that what to me was something i never considered, was something that to him detracted from the art. Either way, i think we can all agree Axl has had lyrics that caused much more discomfort than this one. 

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Pal, I have no problem with Axl or anyone using God in their art.

Yeah i didn't really mean you specifically, i should have been clear.

Rather i just mean that it can be hard to find the right balance between speaking ones mind and still making it a comfortable thing. Buddha's initial post showed that what to me was something i never considered, was something that to him detracted from the art. Either way, i think we can all agree Axl has had lyrics that caused much more discomfort than this one. 

Yeah, I don't get that.  At the end of the day, it's only music.  Sure, some music has some larger than life connotations, but people forget to take things for what they are.

[Buddha_Master]

Hey man, Skunk. I totally respect you man. I dig the way you explain things. Always cool as a cucumber.

I wasn't attempting to ram some atheist agenda down anyones throat. I myself am agnostic. I say that because I know there isn't definite answers to everything. I say that I don't know to things when I don't and neither does anyone else. I know that because other people do not possess powers that I don't have.  I was struck by this line in This I love and wanted to give a thorough reasoning behind my perspective on it. From a certain point of view I can totally see how this is a pretty minor complaint (if this could even be called that). The song is beautiful and that is what it comes down to really. I gave my impressions way earlier in this topic so I won't rehash now.

I am going to reread some of what was written above. Some interesting things were said.

[Classic Case]

"I hope to God she hears me"

"Please God you must believe  me"

it just shows how Axl grows in hes believes and as a human being and he express himself in this song, I think having God as ur guide and support is a mature way to live ur life (is just my opinion). Im happy to see Axl trusts God.

[CheapJon]

"I hope to God she hears me"

"Please God you must believe  me"

it just shows how Axl grows in hes believes and as a human being and he express himself in this song, I think having God as ur guide and support is a mature way to live ur life (is just my opinion). Im happy to see Axl trusts God.

of course he trusts himself 

[ppbebe]

You call for god or whatever almighty when really desperate. no matter how much atheistic you usually are.

if you don't like god how about

'i hope to Buddha'

'please Buddha you must believe me'

er, maybe not.