Chinese Democracy [Single] Debuts at #27 in UK Singles Chart

[la-burning]

Hi all

Just noticed that Chinese Democracy debuted at #27 in the UK singles chart.  For those who don't know the UK singles chart is based entirely upon record sales, both physical and download from services like iTunes.  So all things considered, a pretty solid debut for the download only track!

[falungong69]

fuck yeah!  takin' the world by storm!   

[la-burning]

Yeah, it's a really solid opening for it!

[riotact_vancity]

Hi all

Just noticed that Chinese Democracy debuted at #27 in the UK singles chart.  For those who don't know the UK singles chart is based entirely upon record sales, both physical and download from services like iTunes.  So all things considered, a pretty solid debut for the download only track!

maybe i'm a little out of touch, but hasnt the paradigm in music sales shifted to correspond somewhat to movie ticket sales, ie. big opening, hold on to as much as possible? wouldnt this be the reason behind "a monumental campaign"? seeing as how a monumental campaign cant sustain itself ($$) the sense is that its point is to produce eye opening initial results.....27th?

[St_Jimmyuk]

well seen as its a download only track which in itself has not been advertised as available that much, the monumental campaign is going on album-pre orders which has seen the album already go number 1 on a lot of charts just based on this pre-ordering so i would say it is working

[la-burning]

"Hi all

Just noticed that Chinese Democracy debuted at #27 in the UK singles chart.  For those who don't know the UK singles chart is based entirely upon record sales, both physical and download from services like iTunes.  So all things considered, a pretty solid debut for the download only track!


maybe i'm a little out of touch, but hasnt the paradigm in music sales shifted to correspond somewhat to movie ticket sales, ie. big opening, hold on to as much as possible? wouldnt this be the reason behind "a monumental campaign"? seeing as how a monumental campaign cant sustain itself ($$) the sense is that its point is to produce eye opening initial results.....27th?"

Hi Riotact

A few years ago (i.e. before downloads) the UK singles chart moved stupidly fast - a single could debut at #1 and be around #36 within a couple of weeks.  Since downloads have been added it has become alot more stable with singles tending to debut relatively, based upon downloads only, and then explode when a physical release is made available.  Alecia Dixon, who has a top 10 single, debuted at #84 a couple of weeks ago based on downloads.  I actually think CD may dip lower in next weeks chart but with the release of the album I expect it to rise again, but how high can it get? If there is a physical release it may surge up but without a music video I expect it won't get much higher than the top 30 or 20.  Hope I'm wrong though!

[riotact_vancity]

well seen as its a download only track which in itself has not been advertised as available that much, the monumental campaign is going on album-pre orders which has seen the album already go number 1 on a lot of charts just based on this pre-ordering so i would say it is working

wouldnt a downloadable single move faster and more units than one where you have to go buy it at a store? it's way more convenient....what 27th tells me is that this song in particular isnt hitting the right chord, at least in the UK, it isnt being promoted (which is curious) or not enough people care, because Guns being as big as they were, with the mythology behind CD, the story writes itself to have huge initial reaction...

[riotact_vancity]

"Hi all

Just noticed that Chinese Democracy debuted at #27 in the UK singles chart.  For those who don't know the UK singles chart is based entirely upon record sales, both physical and download from services like iTunes.  So all things considered, a pretty solid debut for the download only track!


maybe i'm a little out of touch, but hasnt the paradigm in music sales shifted to correspond somewhat to movie ticket sales, ie. big opening, hold on to as much as possible? wouldnt this be the reason behind "a monumental campaign"? seeing as how a monumental campaign cant sustain itself ($$) the sense is that its point is to produce eye opening initial results.....27th?"

Hi Riotact

A few years ago (i.e. before downloads) the UK singles chart moved stupidly fast - a single could debut at #1 and be around #36 within a couple of weeks.  Since downloads have been added it has become alot more stable with singles tending to debut relatively, based upon downloads only, and then explode when a physical release is made available.  Alecia Dixon, who has a top 10 single, debuted at #84 a couple of weeks ago based on downloads.  I actually think CD may dip lower in next weeks chart but with the release of the album I expect it to rise again, but how high can it get? If there is a physical release it may surge up but without a music video I expect it won't get much higher than the top 30 or 20.  Hope I'm wrong though!

physical release of the single? do labels still do that? if they do, at this point it's useless because why pay $3 or whatever for one song when you can buy the album for $12-$15 in 6 days?

are you saying bands release a downloadable single say 6 weeks in advance of the album, it sells slow, then the album comes out and the single starts selling fast? that doesnt make any commercial sense, especially in an era when we can buy any single song we want off the album. Logic would seem to indicate that the single will sell well prior to the album release, then that song will sell slightly less than the other songs (on iTunes), most especially in the case of GnR.

on a side note, since we can buy single songs off an album, are there charts that keep track of what single songs are selling the most beyond `singles charts`?

[la-burning]

With the advent of iTunes and digital downloads the UK singles chart has been completely transformed.  Physical CDs are still not only sold over here but they remain the cornerstone of any massive hit - honestly, I don't know what the ratio is of downloads to physical sales but I believe it is still greater than 50% for the discs.  It may appear useless - indeed, the UK singles market has struggled in recent years - but singles, at least in the UK, still sell and, as of yet, services such as iTunes have yet to displace physical sales; instead they have augmented them and given the singles chart a much needed shot in the arm.  When a song hits iTunes in the UK it is typically before a single has recieved massive amounts of radio airplay, and sometimes even a video - though there are plenty of exceptions to this rule.  Usually, after a song has been on the radio for a couple of weeks it is made available for digital download, the rationale being that any person who hears the song and wants to buy has the opportunity to do so - they don't have to download it illegally.  When a single launches on services such as iTunes you should think of it as a soft launch - the hard launch comes when the physical CD is released and very often the week after the CD hits the shops the song will likely peak.

You are right - for many music fans downloading digital singles is easier and more convenient - but if we were to carry that line of thought to its natural conclusion it could be argued that simply downloading the tune illegally and not going through the incovenience of paying would actually subtract from sales.  I find iTunes a really convenient service but there is no way I am buying Chinese Democracy from it.  I have waited too long to not have something tangible.  Next monday I will leave the house at 8:30am to begin my long communte - at one point, when changing from train to a bus, I will have 30 minutes free to go and buy a CD i've been waiting for since 1998.  I will then need to wait 2 hours before I can get to my office, load it onto my computer (and iPod) and finally listen to it.  Not very convenient, but that's what's going happen

I'm not guaranteeing the single will rise when the album is released but the release of the album should, finally, give the single some much need promotion.  Again, iTunes has revolutionized the singles chart - even if people are just searching for Guns N' Roses or Chinese Democracy they may well opt to buy the single first as a try before you buy.  Good example of that is the new Bond theme which sat static on the UK chart at #26 for at least 2 weeks, maybe longer.  Once the movie came out and interest in all things QoS related exploded, so to did the single - in spite of healthy sales for the soundtrack album.  Of course these examples are not the best to give but they are the best I can think of off the top of my head.

Finally (phew!), if enough people buy any given track from any album then it is eligable to enter the UK singles chart - no separate charting is necessary.  So, if people began buying Madagascer in huge numbers but not the rest of the album there is no reason it couldn't chart over here.  Indeed, there have been many examples of this happening already!

[variant]

/\/\/\/\/\ good post that.

As an example; Pink's 'so what' entered the chart in the mid-30's after a week on itunes. When the physical single was released it went straight to number one. Can't see the same thing happening to the Chin Dem single without an actual CD to buy. 

Isn't it all about the full album though? I wouldn't buy it as a single track (unless it was on a CD with b-sides) - I'll be buying the whole lot on November 24th.

[John Galt]

I will be downloading (already pre-ordered) and have asked the wife to buy the physical CD for me for Christmas - best of both worlds because like la-burning I have waited too damn long not actually have the damn thing in my hands 

[TWT]

I think it's all the more impressive when you take into consideration that, the last time I listened, the preview on iTunes is taken from the intro and doesn't exactly sell the song to the masses as a single   

They did enter the chart a place below Nickelback, though, which is gonna give me at least two sleepless nights. The horror, the horror.

[riotact_vancity]

With the advent of iTunes and digital downloads the UK singles chart has been completely transformed.  Physical CDs are still not only sold over here but they remain the cornerstone of any massive hit - honestly, I don't know what the ratio is of downloads to physical sales but I believe it is still greater than 50% for the discs.  It may appear useless - indeed, the UK singles market has struggled in recent years - but singles, at least in the UK, still sell and, as of yet, services such as iTunes have yet to displace physical sales; instead they have augmented them and given the singles chart a much needed shot in the arm.  When a song hits iTunes in the UK it is typically before a single has recieved massive amounts of radio airplay, and sometimes even a video - though there are plenty of exceptions to this rule.  Usually, after a song has been on the radio for a couple of weeks it is made available for digital download, the rationale being that any person who hears the song and wants to buy has the opportunity to do so - they don't have to download it illegally.  When a single launches on services such as iTunes you should think of it as a soft launch - the hard launch comes when the physical CD is released and very often the week after the CD hits the shops the song will likely peak.

You are right - for many music fans downloading digital singles is easier and more convenient - but if we were to carry that line of thought to its natural conclusion it could be argued that simply downloading the tune illegally and not going through the incovenience of paying would actually subtract from sales.  I find iTunes a really convenient service but there is no way I am buying Chinese Democracy from it.  I have waited too long to not have something tangible.  Next monday I will leave the house at 8:30am to begin my long communte - at one point, when changing from train to a bus, I will have 30 minutes free to go and buy a CD i've been waiting for since 1998.  I will then need to wait 2 hours before I can get to my office, load it onto my computer (and iPod) and finally listen to it.  Not very convenient, but that's what's going happen

I'm not guaranteeing the single will rise when the album is released but the release of the album should, finally, give the single some much need promotion.  Again, iTunes has revolutionized the singles chart - even if people are just searching for Guns N' Roses or Chinese Democracy they may well opt to buy the single first as a try before you buy.  Good example of that is the new Bond theme which sat static on the UK chart at #26 for at least 2 weeks, maybe longer.  Once the movie came out and interest in all things QoS related exploded, so to did the single - in spite of healthy sales for the soundtrack album.  Of course these examples are not the best to give but they are the best I can think of off the top of my head.

Finally (phew!), if enough people buy any given track from any album then it is eligable to enter the UK singles chart - no separate charting is necessary.  So, if people began buying Madagascer in huge numbers but not the rest of the album there is no reason it couldn't chart over here.  Indeed, there have been many examples of this happening already!

okay, i'll buy al of that as you seem to know what you're talking about and i'm just hypothesizing, but a couple questions:

-are iTunes album sales decided by who buys the entire album, or a single or few songs from the album?

-are we sure CD is going to be accessible to computer and iPods? Dont some albums have blocks to uploading them to comps and ipods these days?

-and as far as CD at #27, i still hold that with the unique back story of GnR and CD, if people cared and/ or there was proper promotion or the song caught on, this should enter at number 1, or at least top 5, not below Nickleback, (whom no one even likes in my city, an hour from their hometown)

[la-burning]

Album sales on iTunes are only counted if a person buys the whole album - if you were to buy three or four tracks only they would individually count towards single sales.

Good question about the CD being accessible on a computer - I've not heard anything to suggest it won't be though

I agree the single could have charted higher had it been promoted properly, the lack of a video being the main thing but #1 or top 5 just never happens in first week of release for a download only single - particularly one without a video.  I think the single at #2 this week was at #39 last week, for example - and that is a hit

[minto]

Trust me 27 is a good opening position.  Its on the B list on the Radio 1 playlist (Moved up from the C list last week).  Considering its not on any of the music channels in the UK (No Music Video), its a very good sign

Peace out

[St_Jimmyuk]

I think the official charts in the uk put moe weight on physical signles and albums than downloads for example a real cd will be worth say 2 and a download is worth only 1 (might even be more biased than that) or i might be making this up altogether, who knows