Chinese Democracy Review Thread

[acompleteunknown]

Wall Street Journal had a good article about it too...hard to imagine this is still going on in parts of the world...you have to subscribe to see the article on the site so here it is....

SHANGHAI -- The heavy metal band Guns N' Roses is roiling China's
music scene. But sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll aren't the issue.
The trouble is the name of the group's latest album: "Chinese Democracy."

Axl Rose
It has taken
17 years for the band to produce a new studio record. Now, even before
it goes on sale Sunday, in a release heralded by its producers as a
"historic moment in rock ' n' roll," the disc is getting the thumbs
down from Chinese authorities. It's also causing anxiety among GN'R's
legion of loyal fans here, who aren't sure they like what lead singer
W. Axl Rose is trying to say about their country.
China's government-owned music-importing monopoly has signaled that
local record distributors shouldn't bother ordering the GN'R
production. Anything with "democracy" in the name is "not going to
work," said an official at the China National Publications Import &
Export (Group) Corp., part of the Ministry of Culture.
For fans, the response is more complicated. GN'R developed a major
following in China in the late 1980s, when the young Mr. Rose was
recording early hit songs like "Welcome to the Jungle." China was in
the throes of its own rebellious era, and heavy metal was its protest
music. GN'R's popularity soared in the wake of the 1989 Tiananmen
Square crackdown on pro-democracy demonstrators. Learning the band's
1991 ballad "Don't Cry" was a rite of passage for a generation of
Chinese guitarists.
Chinese Democracy
Listen to a clip of the title track from GN'R's new album and, below, read some of the lyrics.
?
If they were missionaries
Real-time visionaries
Sitting in a Chinese stew
To view my disinfatuation
I know that I'm a classic case
Watch my disenchanted face
Blame it on the Falun Gong
They've seen the end and it can't hold on now.
?
When your great wall rocks blame yourself
While their arms reach up for your help
And you're out of time
"It was not only the music, the band's clothes also
pushed the craze," says 30-year-old Chen Lei , one of Beijing's
best-regarded rock guitarists, who cites GN'R as a primary influence.
GN'R nostalgia remains strong. A program on state-run China Central
Television last year ranked "Qiang Hua" (literally, "Guns Flowers"), as
the group is known in Chinese, at No. 8 on a list of top rock bands of
all time.
Chinese fans eager for news on the Web about the new album sidestep
censors by using coded language. Many deliberately scramble the name,
typing "Chinese Democraxy" or "Chi Dem." They say they fear that typing
the Chinese characters for the title will draw government scrutiny.
Still, it's not much challenge to find news about the record on the
Web, where even the site www.chinesedemocracy.com is a discussion of
GN'R, not politics.
Some fans in China relish how the album discomfits the
establishment. "Rock 'n' roll, as a weapon, is an invisible bomb," says
one.
Leo Huang, a 25-year-old guitarist, just hopes it will retrace
GN'R's roots. "I prefer rock 'n' roll," said the skinny 25-year-old
guitarist after a recent gig with his band, the Wildcats, at a
hard-rock bar below a Shanghai highway.
Yet, for some fans in this nation of 2.6 billion ears, the new
album's title is an irritation. Democracy is a touchy subject in this
country. Elections are limited to votes for selected village-level
officials, and senior leaders are all chosen in secret within the
Communist Party. Many Chinese wish for greater say in their government.
But others -- including some rockers -- think too much democracy too
quickly could lead to chaos, and they resent foreign efforts to push
the issue.
Mr. Chen, the guitarist, says the "Chinese Democracy" album title
suggests "they don't understand China well" and are "just trying to
stir up publicity."
Some Chinese artists, loath to be branded as democracy campaigners,
declined valuable offers to help illustrate the album. "I listened to
their music when I was little," says Beijing visual artist Chen Zhuo .
He was "very glad" when GN'R asked to buy rights to use his picture of
Tiananmen Square rendered as an amusement park -- with Mao Zedong's
head near a roller coaster. Then, Mr. Chen looked at lyrics of the
album's title song and, after consulting with his lawyer and partner,
declined the band's $18,000 offer. "We have to take political risks
into account as artists in China," says the 30-year-old.
The new album's title track, already released as a single, begins
with eerie, high-pitched noises that sound vaguely like chattering in
Chinese. In the song's three verses, Mr. Rose sings of "missionaries,"
"visionaries" and "sitting in a Chinese stew."
The overall message is unclear, but his most provocative lines
aren't. "Blame it on the Falun Gong. They've seen the end and you can't
hold on now," Mr. Rose sings. It is a reference to the spiritual
movement that Beijing has outlawed as an "illegal cult" and vowed to
crush.
Mr. Rose, 46, who is the only remaining original member of GN'R, is
rarely interviewed and declined to comment for this article. He picked
the new album's name more than a decade ago. In a 1999 television
appearance, he discussed the thinking behind it.
"Well, there's a lot of Chinese democracy movements, and it's
something that there's a lot of talk about, and it's something that
will be nice to see. It could also just be like an ironic statement. I
don't know, I just like the sound of it," Mr. Rose said.
Mr. Rose in recent years has visited Chinese cities including
Beijing, Shanghai and Xian, and he worries he won't be let back in,
says his assistant, Beta Lebeis. "Everything is so controlled," she
says.
Chinese authorities in recent years have started letting
once-controversial artists perform in the country, but they remain
uncomfortable with hard rock. The Rolling Stones played their first
China concerts in 2006, but only after bowing to government demands to
drop certain songs, including "Brown Sugar," that were considered
controversial.
Fresh barriers went up after a Shanghai concert in March by the
singer Bjork, who punctuated her song "Declare Independence" with
shouts of "Tibet!" Officials thought it sounded like agitation against
Beijing's rule of the restive Himalayan region. In new rules issued
later, they threatened to hold promoters responsible for performers who
violated its laws, "including situations that harm the sovereignty of
the country."
One casualty: GN'R promoters in China dropped plans for two shows this year, says Ms. Lebeis.
The Ministry of Culture forbids imports of music that violate any of
10 criteria, including music that publicizes "evil sects" or damages
social morality. In reality, many songs make it into China anyway,
pirated and via the Internet.
It's unclear how much exposure the new record will get. "I have to
say, 'Chinese Democracy' sounds sensitive," says a Beijing radio
station's programming chief who doubts it will get much air play.
The title alone makes it "impossible" to imagine the album will be
released in China, says Nicreve Lee , a student in northeastern China
who runs a Web site called GN'R Online (www.gnronline.cn).
He says his first reaction listening to the title track was, "This is
an anti-China song." But, he says, "I gradually began to understand
what the song wants to say. Perhaps Axl Rose doesn't know China well,
but at least he is on the right track."

[GeraldFord]

FYI--Any critic who claims that this album sounds like Nine Inch Nails is full of shit.

[Olorin]

Wall Street Journal had a good article about it too...hard to imagine this is still going on in parts of the world...you have to subscribe to see the article on the site so here it is....

SHANGHAI -- The heavy metal band Guns N' Roses is roiling China's
music scene. But sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll aren't the issue.
The trouble is the name of the group's latest album: "Chinese Democracy."

Axl Rose
It has taken
17 years for the band to produce a new studio record. Now, even before
it goes on sale Sunday, in a release heralded by its producers as a
"historic moment in rock ' n' roll," the disc is getting the thumbs
down from Chinese authorities. It's also causing anxiety among GN'R's
legion of loyal fans here, who aren't sure they like what lead singer
W. Axl Rose is trying to say about their country.
China's government-owned music-importing monopoly has signaled that
local record distributors shouldn't bother ordering the GN'R
production. Anything with "democracy" in the name is "not going to
work," said an official at the China National Publications Import &
Export (Group) Corp., part of the Ministry of Culture.
For fans, the response is more complicated. GN'R developed a major
following in China in the late 1980s, when the young Mr. Rose was
recording early hit songs like "Welcome to the Jungle." China was in
the throes of its own rebellious era, and heavy metal was its protest
music. GN'R's popularity soared in the wake of the 1989 Tiananmen
Square crackdown on pro-democracy demonstrators. Learning the band's
1991 ballad "Don't Cry" was a rite of passage for a generation of
Chinese guitarists.
Chinese Democracy
Listen to a clip of the title track from GN'R's new album and, below, read some of the lyrics.
?
If they were missionaries
Real-time visionaries
Sitting in a Chinese stew
To view my disinfatuation
I know that I'm a classic case
Watch my disenchanted face
Blame it on the Falun Gong
They've seen the end and it can't hold on now.
?
When your great wall rocks blame yourself
While their arms reach up for your help
And you're out of time
"It was not only the music, the band's clothes also
pushed the craze," says 30-year-old Chen Lei , one of Beijing's
best-regarded rock guitarists, who cites GN'R as a primary influence.
GN'R nostalgia remains strong. A program on state-run China Central
Television last year ranked "Qiang Hua" (literally, "Guns Flowers"), as
the group is known in Chinese, at No. 8 on a list of top rock bands of
all time.
Chinese fans eager for news on the Web about the new album sidestep
censors by using coded language. Many deliberately scramble the name,
typing "Chinese Democraxy" or "Chi Dem." They say they fear that typing
the Chinese characters for the title will draw government scrutiny.
Still, it's not much challenge to find news about the record on the
Web, where even the site www.chinesedemocracy.com is a discussion of
GN'R, not politics.
Some fans in China relish how the album discomfits the
establishment. "Rock 'n' roll, as a weapon, is an invisible bomb," says
one.
Leo Huang, a 25-year-old guitarist, just hopes it will retrace
GN'R's roots. "I prefer rock 'n' roll," said the skinny 25-year-old
guitarist after a recent gig with his band, the Wildcats, at a
hard-rock bar below a Shanghai highway.
Yet, for some fans in this nation of 2.6 billion ears, the new
album's title is an irritation. Democracy is a touchy subject in this
country. Elections are limited to votes for selected village-level
officials, and senior leaders are all chosen in secret within the
Communist Party. Many Chinese wish for greater say in their government.
But others -- including some rockers -- think too much democracy too
quickly could lead to chaos, and they resent foreign efforts to push
the issue.
Mr. Chen, the guitarist, says the "Chinese Democracy" album title
suggests "they don't understand China well" and are "just trying to
stir up publicity."
Some Chinese artists, loath to be branded as democracy campaigners,
declined valuable offers to help illustrate the album. "I listened to
their music when I was little," says Beijing visual artist Chen Zhuo .
He was "very glad" when GN'R asked to buy rights to use his picture of
Tiananmen Square rendered as an amusement park -- with Mao Zedong's
head near a roller coaster. Then, Mr. Chen looked at lyrics of the
album's title song and, after consulting with his lawyer and partner,
declined the band's $18,000 offer. "We have to take political risks
into account as artists in China," says the 30-year-old.
The new album's title track, already released as a single, begins
with eerie, high-pitched noises that sound vaguely like chattering in
Chinese. In the song's three verses, Mr. Rose sings of "missionaries,"
"visionaries" and "sitting in a Chinese stew."
The overall message is unclear, but his most provocative lines
aren't. "Blame it on the Falun Gong. They've seen the end and you can't
hold on now," Mr. Rose sings. It is a reference to the spiritual
movement that Beijing has outlawed as an "illegal cult" and vowed to
crush.
Mr. Rose, 46, who is the only remaining original member of GN'R, is
rarely interviewed and declined to comment for this article. He picked
the new album's name more than a decade ago. In a 1999 television
appearance, he discussed the thinking behind it.
"Well, there's a lot of Chinese democracy movements, and it's
something that there's a lot of talk about, and it's something that
will be nice to see. It could also just be like an ironic statement. I
don't know, I just like the sound of it," Mr. Rose said.
Mr. Rose in recent years has visited Chinese cities including
Beijing, Shanghai and Xian, and he worries he won't be let back in,
says his assistant, Beta Lebeis. "Everything is so controlled," she
says.
Chinese authorities in recent years have started letting
once-controversial artists perform in the country, but they remain
uncomfortable with hard rock. The Rolling Stones played their first
China concerts in 2006, but only after bowing to government demands to
drop certain songs, including "Brown Sugar," that were considered
controversial.
Fresh barriers went up after a Shanghai concert in March by the
singer Bjork, who punctuated her song "Declare Independence" with
shouts of "Tibet!" Officials thought it sounded like agitation against
Beijing's rule of the restive Himalayan region. In new rules issued
later, they threatened to hold promoters responsible for performers who
violated its laws, "including situations that harm the sovereignty of
the country."
One casualty: GN'R promoters in China dropped plans for two shows this year, says Ms. Lebeis.
The Ministry of Culture forbids imports of music that violate any of
10 criteria, including music that publicizes "evil sects" or damages
social morality. In reality, many songs make it into China anyway,
pirated and via the Internet.
It's unclear how much exposure the new record will get. "I have to
say, 'Chinese Democracy' sounds sensitive," says a Beijing radio
station's programming chief who doubts it will get much air play.
The title alone makes it "impossible" to imagine the album will be
released in China, says Nicreve Lee , a student in northeastern China
who runs a Web site called GN'R Online (www.gnronline.cn).
He says his first reaction listening to the title track was, "This is
an anti-China song." But, he says, "I gradually began to understand
what the song wants to say. Perhaps Axl Rose doesn't know China well,
but at least he is on the right track."

Thanks for posting, very interesting 

[Tynia]

its not a huge surprise the world in which we live is not a perfect one
The album will not be heard by the masses under this communist leadership unfortunately cause it'd be great for the to see their regime openly criticized in the public domain
I'm sure gnr fans wil get cd in ebay etc though

capitalistic dictatorship, my friend.
communism has NOTHING to do with the modern china.

well China is a two-sistem country... whereas its economics (meaning the special coast zones) are rulled under a capitalist douctrine (free market, exportations, investment...) the main part of China, especially its North and Center, are still rulled under the communist regime with the Party deciding on every matter of the chinese life.

this is dictatorship.
communism : a theory advocating elimination of private property b: a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed.
Nothing about "a party ruling your everyday life".

If you haven't lived under COMUNIST REGIME, you won't understand WHAT IT MEANS, so don't hide behind intelectual definitions 

Ines put it right (BTW Ines hope your studies are going well - long time since we last time talked  )

Also read that Wall Streat Journal article carefully to get the right insight into Chinese matters, dude!

Going back to Poland under comunist regime there is funny reference in that BBC review to which anythinggoes II gave above link to: at about 7:27 min. - you'll understand how much G N'R music and any other rock music meant to us back in that time 

Do not use Stalin as a reference, he betrayed us.

Oh, really? And what about Roosevelt and Churchill betraying us in Yalta'45? 

[Tynia]

Don't know if I should put it here, but there is whole article about Axl with some vintage and up-to-date pics in Polish weekly mag called "Przekr?j" entitled: "Thorny Rose" subtile: "Axl Rose - the last real rock star is coming back". The most interesting is the last short paragraph saying about Dr. Pepper joke on G N'R and now giving away the free soda: "They underrated Axl. Or maybe we all didn't appreciate him? Maybe general Rose played with us a strategic game for life? He waited Kurt Coabain and hip-hop to pass, gave us time to get borred with Thom York and neo-rock youngsters without a face, he let us to understand, that eventhough rock idols used to annoy us, but we can't live without them. And he kindly came back". 

If anyone is intrested in taking a challange to read the whole article through Google Translator here you go 

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.przekroj.pl%2Fludzie_sylwetki_artykul%2C3614%2C0.html&hl=pl&ie=UTF-8&sl=pl&tl=en

Axl & G N'R made it also on a first page and a huge article inside today's daily paper called Dziennik:

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dziennik.pl%2Fkultura%2Fmuzyka%2Farticle269130%2FPowrot_wykolejencow_z_Guns_NRoses.html&hl=pl&ie=UTF-8&sl=pl&tl=en

Don't know if the transtalion will be redable for you folks 

Later will take pics of it to show you guys how great it all looks in paper edition 

[thomas]

Guns N' Roses' New Album Is Up Against a Chinese Wall

The Title Is a Problem for Authorities And Even for Some Shanghai Fans

By JAMES T. AREDDY

SHANGHAI -- The heavy metal band Guns N' Roses is roiling China's music scene. But sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll aren't the issue.

The trouble is the name of the group's latest album: "Chinese Democracy."

It has taken 17 years for the band to produce a new studio record. Now, even before it goes on sale Sunday, in a release heralded by its producers as a "historic moment in rock ' n' roll," the disc is getting the thumbs down from Chinese authorities. It's also causing anxiety among GN'R's legion of loyal fans here, who aren't sure they like what lead singer W. Axl Rose is trying to say about their country.

China's government-owned music-importing monopoly has signaled that local record distributors shouldn't bother ordering the GN'R production. Anything with "democracy" in the name is "not going to work," said an official at the China National Publications Import & Export (Group) Corp., part of the Ministry of Culture.

For fans, the response is more complicated. GN'R developed a major following in China in the late 1980s, when the young Mr. Rose was recording early hit songs like "Welcome to the Jungle." China was in the throes of its own rebellious era, and heavy metal was its protest music. GN'R's popularity soared in the wake of the 1989 Tiananmen Square crackdown on pro-democracy demonstrators. Learning the band's 1991 ballad "Don't Cry" was a rite of passage for a generation of Chinese guitarists.

"It was not only the music, the band's clothes also pushed the craze," says 30-year-old Chen Lei , one of Beijing's best-regarded rock guitarists, who cites GN'R as a primary influence.

GN'R nostalgia remains strong. A program on state-run China Central Television last year ranked "Qiang Hua" (literally, "Guns Flowers"), as the group is known in Chinese, at No. 8 on a list of top rock bands of all time.

Chinese fans eager for news on the Web about the new album sidestep censors by using coded language. Many deliberately scramble the name, typing "Chinese Democraxy" or "Chi Dem." They say they fear that typing the Chinese characters for the title will draw government scrutiny. Still, it's not much challenge to find news about the record on the Web, where even the site www.chinesedemocracy.com is a discussion of GN'R, not politics.

Some fans in China relish how the album discomfits the establishment. "Rock 'n' roll, as a weapon, is an invisible bomb," says one.

Leo Huang, a 25-year-old guitarist, just hopes it will retrace GN'R's roots. "I prefer rock 'n' roll," said the skinny 25-year-old guitarist after a recent gig with his band, the Wildcats, at a hard-rock bar below a Shanghai highway.

Yet, for some fans in this nation of 2.6 billion ears, the new album's title is an irritation. Democracy is a touchy subject in this country. Elections are limited to votes for selected village-level officials, and senior leaders are all chosen in secret within the Communist Party. Many Chinese wish for greater say in their government. But others -- including some rockers -- think too much democracy too quickly could lead to chaos, and they resent foreign efforts to push the issue.

Mr. Chen, the guitarist, says the "Chinese Democracy" album title suggests "they don't understand China well" and are "just trying to stir up publicity."

Some Chinese artists, loath to be branded as democracy campaigners, declined valuable offers to help illustrate the album. "I listened to their music when I was little," says Beijing visual artist Chen Zhuo . He was "very glad" when GN'R asked to buy rights to use his picture of Tiananmen Square rendered as an amusement park -- with Mao Zedong's head near a roller coaster. Then, Mr. Chen looked at lyrics of the album's title song and, after consulting with his lawyer and partner, declined the band's $18,000 offer. "We have to take political risks into account as artists in China," says the 30-year-old.

The new album's title track, already released as a single, begins with eerie, high-pitched noises that sound vaguely like chattering in Chinese. In the song's three verses, Mr. Rose sings of "missionaries," "visionaries" and "sitting in a Chinese stew."

The overall message is unclear, but his most provocative lines aren't. "Blame it on the Falun Gong. They've seen the end and you can't hold on now," Mr. Rose sings. It is a reference to the spiritual movement that Beijing has outlawed as an "illegal cult" and vowed to crush.

Mr. Rose, 46, who is the only remaining original member of GN'R, is rarely interviewed and declined to comment for this article. He picked the new album's name more than a decade ago. In a 1999 television appearance, he discussed the thinking behind it.

"Well, there's a lot of Chinese democracy movements, and it's something that there's a lot of talk about, and it's something that will be nice to see. It could also just be like an ironic statement. I don't know, I just like the sound of it," Mr. Rose said.

Mr. Rose in recent years has visited Chinese cities including Beijing, Shanghai and Xian, and he worries he won't be let back in, says his assistant, Beta Lebeis. "Everything is so controlled," she says.

Chinese authorities in recent years have started letting once-controversial artists perform in the country, but they remain uncomfortable with hard rock. The Rolling Stones played their first China concerts in 2006, but only after bowing to government demands to drop certain songs, including "Brown Sugar," that were considered controversial.

Fresh barriers went up after a Shanghai concert in March by the singer Bjork, who punctuated her song "Declare Independence" with shouts of "Tibet!" Officials thought it sounded like agitation against Beijing's rule of the restive Himalayan region. In new rules issued later, they threatened to hold promoters responsible for performers who violated its laws, "including situations that harm the sovereignty of the country."

One casualty: GN'R promoters in China dropped plans for two shows this year, says Ms. Lebeis.

The Ministry of Culture forbids imports of music that violate any of 10 criteria, including music that publicizes "evil sects" or damages social morality. In reality, many songs make it into China anyway, pirated and via the Internet.

It's unclear how much exposure the new record will get. "I have to say, 'Chinese Democracy' sounds sensitive," says a Beijing radio station's programming chief who doubts it will get much air play.

The title alone makes it "impossible" to imagine the album will be released in China, says Nicreve Lee , a student in northeastern China who runs a Web site called GN'R Online (www.gnronline.cn). He says his first reaction listening to the title track was, "This is an anti-China song." But, he says, "I gradually began to understand what the song wants to say. Perhaps Axl Rose doesn't know China well, but at least he is on the right track."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122728243679848085.html?mod=todays_us_page_one

[hooliganscomics]

New York Daily News Review By Jim Farber

Guns 'N Roses' long-awaited album 'Chinese Democracy' finally arrives
Saturday, November 22nd 2008, 3:46 PM

 
Farber for News
 
Fans have waited 17 years for the new Guns 'N Roses album 'Chinese Democracy,' which drops Sunday.
Guns N? Roses "Chinese Democracy? (Black Dog/ Geffen)

It?s a good week for music fans who don?t mind waiting.

The next few days will bring the first new music from Guns N? Roses in 17 years, the first from Tom Jones in 15, and the first joint effort from lead Talking Head David Byrne and U2 producer Brian Eno in more than two decades. Add to that a new one from the multiplatinum neo-?80s band the Killers and you?ve got one of the biggest release weeks of the year. Here?s a review of the results:

So Big Foot has finally arrived ? that mythic beast few believed they?d ever see in their lifetimes. Yes folks, we?re talking ?Chinese Democracy,? an album so often promised, and just as often delayed, it turned Guns N? Roses leader Axl Rose into the ultimate man who cried wolf.

But now that it?s finally here ? all 14 tracks and 71 minutes of it ? the question becomes less ?Was it worth the wait?? than ?What were you expecting to begin with??

After all, GNR may be remembered as one of rock?s classic bands, but what?s that really based on? In truth, they put out just one great work: 1987?s ?Appetite for Destruction,? a mix of high-wire attitude, low-down riffs and stellar songs that arrived right when rock needed it most: at the height of the worldwide horror of hair metal.


That last quality is back with a vengeance on ?Democracy.? As you?d expect from music that Axl has been rejiggering for eons, it?s overstuffed, full of piggy arrangements that keep threatening to suffocate the core of the song. Gigantic string sections saw their way around scores of guitar riffs, as if Axl had in mind to become a late-in-life successor to Phil Spector.

At least Axl?s vocal squeal still sounds burly, and the songs themselves are pleasing enough.

The best rate in the company of ?Illusion?s? peaks. The title track has an appealingly hard hook. ?Catcher in the Rye? has some catchy pop moments. Most encouraging of all, only a few tracks turn out to be total bombs, like ?Sorry? or ?Prostitute,? whose paucity of hooks, and self-conscious arrangements halt all momentum and punch.

In the end, ?Democracy? does best by doing no harm to the GNR legend. Fans will find it perfectly likable if not exactly inspired. And there?s one more payoff:

Now that we?ve gotten all this anticipation out of our systems, we won?t mind so much if Axl takes another 17 years to deliver the next followup.

[Ines_rocks!]

its not a huge surprise the world in which we live is not a perfect one
The album will not be heard by the masses under this communist leadership unfortunately cause it'd be great for the to see their regime openly criticized in the public domain
I'm sure gnr fans wil get cd in ebay etc though

capitalistic dictatorship, my friend.
communism has NOTHING to do with the modern china.

well China is a two-sistem country... whereas its economics (meaning the special coast zones) are rulled under a capitalist douctrine (free market, exportations, investment...) the main part of China, especially its North and Center, are still rulled under the communist regime with the Party deciding on every matter of the chinese life.

this is dictatorship.
communism : a theory advocating elimination of private property b: a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed.
Nothing about "a party ruling your everyday life".

If you haven't lived under COMUNIST REGIME, you won't understand WHAT IT MEANS, so don't hide behind intelectual definitions 

Ines put it right (BTW Ines hope your studies are going well - long time since we last time talked  )

Also read that Wall Streat Journal article carefully to get the right insight into Chinese matters, dude!

Going back to Poland under comunist regime there is funny reference in that BBC review to which anythinggoes II gave above link to: at about 7:27 min. - you'll understand how much G N'R music and any other rock music meant to us back in that time 

Do not use Stalin as a reference, he betrayed us.

Oh, really? And what about Roosevelt and Churchill betraying us in Yalta'45? 

hehe thanks for the back up Tynia... some people just have to get some reality check sometimes 

I'm doing ok, though I have like 4 projects t do each month hehe... hope everything is good with you too! 

[FunkyMonkey]

One casualty: GN'R promoters in China dropped plans for two shows this year, says Ms. Lebeis.

Well that's unfortunate. 

[Ali]

I tlooks like 'ordinary' music listeners like CD more than the critics. For example, take a look at this thread on a Prince message board:

http://prince.org/msg/8/289455

Prince fans liking GN'R?  Cool 

Ali

[loretian]

Star Tribune Review: http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/music/34914484.html?elr=KArksD:aDyaEP:kD:aUnOiP3UiacyKUnciaec8O7EyU

"Chinese Democracy" is the rock 'n' roll answer to the Hummer.

Sonically, it's bigger and beefier than any record needs to be, and it comes fully loaded with bells and whistles. Musically, it's a high-velocity, guttural, bumpy ride. Lyrically and vocally, it's manly, ugly and fierce. And financially, it probably wasn't worth the costs of keeping it running.

In short, the Guns N' Roses opus that took 14 years to complete is a love-it-or-hate-it kind of album. You're going to love it if you don't mind that Axl Rose is the only original member or that some of the songs ("If the World," "Shackler's Revenge") try way too hard to update the band with electronic beats and whirs and staticky vocals, which actually sound more 1998 than 2008. You'll love it if you still enjoy good old-fashioned, heavy metal power ballads ("Catcher in the Rye," "This I Love," both laden with goopy piano). You'll hate it if you want your rock 'n' roll to offer subtlety or humility, or vocals and guitar solos that don't try to shriek your ears off.

For more reasons than nostalgia -- such as pure and simple songwriting -- the best tracks sound like classic GNR. There's some great "Welcome to the Jungle"-sized guitar thunder and fine howling by Axl in "Riad N' the Bedouins," one of the angriest songs lyrically ("Nomads and barbarians/ I won't bend my will to them"). The dramatic "Street of Dreams" deserves to be a "November Rain"-style crossover pop hit. The best track, "Better," offers the perfect balance of old GNR grime and new Axl polish.

Is it good enough to make Rose rock's biggest star again? No, but "Chinese Democracy" should keep him from being its biggest punch line.

CHRIS RIEMENSCHNEIDER

[chineseblues]

Pigs do fly, 'Chinese Democracy' hits store shelves

Updated Sat. Nov. 22 2008 9:31 PM ET
CTV.ca News Staff

In a cultural event rivaling the discovery of a unicorn or Big Foot, Guns N' Roses' "Chinese Democracy" is hitting stores tonight at midnight.

"Chinese Democracy" is being released 17 years after the band's last original studio albums landed. Music stores around the country are opening at midnight for the Sunday release.

However, it won't be available everywhere in the world -- its been banned in China.

The reclusive Axl Rose is the sole remaining original member of the band that took the world by storm in late 1980s with their distinct gritty punk-metal sound, which was in sharp contrast to the pop-focused "hair metal" bands such as Poison or Warrant, which dominated the charts at the time.

In the estimated 14 years spent working on the album, numerous personnel changes were made to the band, and producers such as Youth, Moby, Sean Beaven and the legendary Roy Thomas Baker (Queen) came and went.

The album's release also means that soft drink maker Dr. Pepper has to pony up a free pop for every American (minus former guitarists Slash and Buckethead) after the company promised to do so if the album was released in 2008.

Americans can log on to Dr. Pepper's website for 24 hours starting Sunday to download a coupon to get their free pop. It is estimated that the bet could cost the company as much as US$20 million, even more than the massive amount it cost to produce "Chinese Democracy."

Is it any good?

The album had become a punch line for artistic indulgence in the music community and was never expected to see the light of day by many after numerous delays.

And as time passed, Rose was stuck more and more between a rock and a hard place, making the album's release even more unlikely.

Expectations for the record have grown to such levels that anything other than the perfect album would be considered a letdown for many. Critics would have a field day with it saying, "17 years for this?"

But "Chinese Democracy" has not been ruthlessly plundered in many of the early reviews of the album.

Rolling Stone magazine called it "great, audacious, unhinged and uncompromising hard-rock record."

The Los Angeles Times wrote of the album: "The end result is a cyborgian blend of pop expressiveness, traditional rock bravado and Brian Wilson-style beautiful weirdness."

Spin magazine, the BBC, the National Post, and influential writer Chuck Klosterman also gave positive to glowing notices of the album.

"There are a lot of Guns N' Roses fans . . . and the overall response is 'everyone loves it,'" David Caplan of People magazine told CTV Newsnet Saturday evening. "At People, we were listening to it and we all sort of agreed that it has a charged, high-octane energy.

"Other reviews described it as a high-velocity, almost a guttural kind of sound. It is really great for Guns N' Roses fans because it's pure Guns N' Roses."

Certainly, the album - with its wall of sound worthy of Phil Spector and wide-ranging musical influences, many far from the original Guns N' Roses sound - is not totally well-received.

The New York Times said the album "sounds like a loud last gasp from the reign of the indulged pop star" and compared it to the Titanic (the sunken ship, not the movie.)

Financial success?

Considering the album is believed to have cost at least US$13 million, executives at Rose's record label Universal are no doubt watching with baited breath at how well the album sells.

Early indications suggest there is still a massive fanbase for the band. "Chinese Democracy" is being streamed on MySpace and broke records on the website, with more than three million spins of the album's songs in one day. That's about 25 plays per second.

The album is being released exclusively through Best Buy in the United States but is available at all record stores in other countries. The marketing ploy proved successful this fall when AC/DC scored the year's biggest selling debut after going exclusive with Wal-Mart in the U.S.

"We're expecting it to be one of the biggest, if not the biggest, albums of the year," HMV Canada president Humphrey Kadaner told CTV.ca in October.

Still, Guns N' Roses will have some major competition from Kanye West, The Killers and Ludacris, who all have new albums coming out next week as well. 

The American Music Awards take place Sunday night and there are rumours that Guns N' Roses could make an appearance. However, Rose rarely makes public appearances, and is generally rumoured to be appearing at every single music awards show.

Rose is joined on "Chinese Democracy" by some combination of bassist Tommy Stinson (The Replacements), keyboardist Dizzy Reed (who joined GNR in 1990), guitarists Robin Finck (currently in Nine Inch Nails), Buckethead (who left GNR in 2004), Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal, Richard Fortus (Love Spit Love) and drummers Brian Mantia (Primus) and Frank Ferrer.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081122/chinese_release_081122/20081122?hub=TopStories

[wells]

In today's daily newspaper:

http://www.jutarnji.hr/nedjeljni_jutarnji/clanak/art-2008,11,23,,142128.jl

Title is: Better than expected ...

and I say: Title is Better than an article, mentioning reunion and other shit... but OK, quite positive for Croatian press.

v. ..

[monkey2233]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081123/ENT04/811230316/1424/ENT04

Guns N' Roses' 'Chinese Democracy' an over-the-top masterpiece

No one but Axl Rose could have set the stage as grandly and as absurdly as he did for this album, with a decade's worth of missed release dates, aborted tours, and the general rock star insanity that has surrounded this album since its inception. And frankly, for better or for worse, no one else but Axl Rose could have made "Chinese Democracy."

In an odd way, finally hearing the album in all its boffo grandeur helps the drama that has been "Chinese Democracy" make perfect sense. It couldn't have happened any other way; it had to be like this. And yes, it was worth the wait.
The first sounds you hear on "Chinese Democracy" are echoes and chatter and spooky laughter, which are all quickly silenced by the arrival of a killer buzz-saw guitar riff. It seems to be Axl's way of addressing the rampant speculation and rumors surrounding the project, and putting a stop to them by finally letting 'er rip.

The Meta themes continue throughout the album, and in many ways, "Chinese Democracy" reads like a concept album about the making of "Chinese Democracy." The journey to today's release date has surely been rife with its share of heroes (Axl, mainly), villains (Axl, mainly), strife and struggle, so why not?

The self-referencing unfolds in songs like the vaguely Middle Eastern-flavored "If the World" (the chorus supposes, "if the world would end today," which surely seems plausible given the improbability of "Chinese Democracy's" release) and the rip-roaring "Riad n' the Bedouins" (Axl sings of all his "frustrations" and "salvations" being "caught up in lies," which probably means people were trying to tell him what to do). It continues in the bluesy dirge of "Sorry" (when Axl sings "you don't know why I won't give in/ to hell with the pressure, I'm not caving in," he might as well be talking to a label boss asking him to just finish the album already) and the caustic "I.R.S." ("would it even matter the things that I say?/ You made your mind up on your own anyway," he seems to be singing, pre-emptively, to his critics). Even on the zeppelin-sized (the balloon, not the band) "Madagascar," when no less than Martin Luther King's sampled voice announces, "Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last," it's not hard to read it as Axl's own statement of liberation from the burden of completing the album.

Ironically, given its title, "Chinese Democracy" is the product of anything but a democracy, Chinese or otherwise. With ex-Guns Slash, Duff McKagen and Matt Sorum long since having moved on, Guns N' Roses is now a dictatorship, led by Axl himself. This Guns N' Roses bares little resemblance to the young, hungry band of jackals that crafted one of hard rock's finest-ever moments in 1987's masterfully raw "Appetite for Destruction." This Guns N' Roses is more a band that thought 1991's famously bloated "Use Your Illusion" double album just wasn't big enough.
In many ways, "Chinese Democracy" is a '90s rock album through and through, a monolithic relic of a bygone rock era. It's a Hummer at an electric car convention, celebrating its excesses at a time when everyone else is scaling back and running for cover. But that's what Axl knows, and that's what Axl is. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

If you spend 15 years making an album, it better sound like it, and "Chinese Democracy" sounds every bit like Rose has been tinkering with it non-stop since the first Clinton administration. Guitars are layered on top of guitars, with a thick coat of guitars on top; symphonies of strings drop in, say hello, and bow out; choruses of angels add soothing background vocals. (Is that what took so long? Was it the auditioning of angels that tied Axl's hands?)
And then there are Axl's vocals, which are alternately screeching, preening, dark and wicked, and sound as if they've been sent through a lifetime's worth of vocal processing. Yes, "Chinese Democracy" may well be the most overproduced album of all-time -- there's nothing remotely spontaneous about it, and every millisecond is filled with a drum loop, a guitar overdub, something -- but it's a badge it wears proudly. This far into the game, it's go big or go home, and "Chinese Democracy" is nothing if not a Hail Mary with 0:00 left on the clock.
Musically, "Chinese Democracy" is fascinating, filled with experimental electronic flourishes and guitars that light up the sky like a Fourth of July fireworks display (together, guitarists Buckethead, Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal and Robin Finck form a veritable offensive line of dive bombing guitars). But underneath the studio bluster and Pro Tools perfectionism there's plenty of old school song craft at play. "Street of Dreams" -- known in early, leaked versions as "The Blues" -- would easily be the album's "November Rain," if there weren't already a half dozen other songs jockeying for the same position. It's got strings, massive guitars and the album's most winning vocal performance, but at the heart of the song is Axl and his piano, and it recalls Queen or Elton John in its scope and delivery.

Equally seismic is "There Was a Time," another holdover from leaked versions of the album, which rides a skeletal hip-hop backbeat early on before becoming a gloriously excessive parade of orchestra swells, guitar riffs, keyboards and general madness. The whole thing sounds like it's going to implode at any minute, but it hangs on, and roars proudly like a wild beast.
Make no mistake, "Chinese Democracy" is a colossal listening experience that isn't likely to be topped anytime soon. For sheer drama alone, "Chinese Democracy" is in a class all its own.

Some 70 minutes after it opens with those cackling detractors it closes with a calming orchestral outro, which seems to be Axl's way of saying he is finally at peace. He's delivered his magnum opus and he can now move on, and so can we.

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last.

[SLCPUNK]

Hilarious. 

[GeraldFord]

The AMG (All Music Guide) gave the album four stars (out of five)

Here is the review from The Boston Globe

By Sarah Rodman
Globe Staff / November 23, 2008

A vote for 'Democracy': Axl Rose remains vital

When it comes to Guns N' Roses' 13-years-in-the-making "Chinese Democracy," out today, there's really only one question that matters: Was it worth the wait?

The answer has to be no, of course not, how could it be? That said, it's an exhilarating album. Seriously, after finally hearing these 14 tracks in their finished form I was so energized I wanted to climb a mountain. I felt a grudging admiration for Axl Rose's tortured artistry - and could almost imagine forgiving his make-'em-wait diva attitude at shows.

"Democracy" may not have the metal band's classic lineup, but lone original GNR member and group mastermind Rose has crafted the kind of record that makes superlatives tumble like a waterfall: exciting, urgent, frenzied, heavy, melodic, quirky, melodramatic, and occasionally overbaked. It demands that you hit the repeat button after the first listen for both the hard-rocking highs and the head-scratching lows. In other words, it's everything you want - and a little you don't.

Happily, Rose and his coterie of co-writers retain some of the hallmarks of 1987's "Appetite for Destruction" and 1991's twin "Use Your Illusion" albums.

Melt-your-face guitar solos? Check out the attack on the title track and the lumbering "I.R.S.," blistering guitar courtesy of Robin Finck and Bucket-head.

Candied, singable pop melodies wrapped in barbed-wire arrangements? Listen to the catchy hook and heated wah-wah guitar licks of "Better."

Left-field experiments just crazy enough to work? Consider the combo of delicate 12-string acoustic flights and deep bass funk of "If the World."

And Rose does it all without sounding as if he's been hermetically sealed off from the rest of popular music (witness the hip-hop-tinged rhythm tracks) or forgotten his own history (behold the throwback machine gun riffage).

As vital as "Democracy" is, the labor-intensiveness of the process is evident in the instruments piled on top of one another. Given this appetite for construction, it's easy to envision Rose huddled over a mixing board punching in the tangled guitar solos, windswept orchestral passages, and layers of backing vocals with a maniacal Frankenstein-ian glee. But at least the singer-songwriter and his army of engineers and musicians managed to keep the basic outline of the songs discernible through the clutter.

The biggest obstacle to unadulterated enjoyment may be Rose's voice. The familiar high-pitched caterwaul now more pinched and mottled comes as a shock after so many years without it. And he takes it through different modulations, mostly on the lower end, over the course of the album. One minute he's the familiar bratty ranter on the frenetic "Scraped," the next he's affecting some weird, Ozzy-post-etiquette-training elocution on "Street of Dreams." (The song itself is pretty sweet, though: a grandiose, Elton John-style piano ballad with an intimate sentiment).

There are those who had given up caring if the album would ever surface, but now that Rose has finally decided to spread "Democracy" around, it's a pleasant surprise to find how welcome it is.

http://www.boston.com/ae/music/cd_reviews/articles/2008/11/23/a_vote_for_democracy_axl_rose_remains_vital/

[letsriot]

http://www.torontosun.com/entertainment/music/2008/11/23/7505211-sun.html




It's been said that the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

And maybe -- just maybe -- the greatest trick Axl Rose ever pulled was convincing the world Chinese Democracy was never coming out.

Think about it: Had Rose slapped together a disc 10 years ago, few would have cared about a Guns N' Roses album with virtually no members of GN'R on it. But by vanishing from the scene, holing up in studio after studio, treating his bandmates like chattel, and control-freakishly tweaking these songs for more than a decade, he told the world he was building something monumental on no one else's terms. And by withholding it for year after year, he turned it into the mythical Holy Grail of rock: The Most Wanted Album in Music History.

Everyone thought he was nuts. Turned out he knew exactly what he was doing. Listening to Chinese Democracy, you can hear -- and appreciate -- how much time went into these songs. Nearly every one of these 14 cuts is a massive epic crammed with umpteen parts, endless twists and turns, and layer upon layer of overdubs: A Great Wall of guitars from Bumblefoot, Buckethead and others, sure, but also electronica beats and loops, horns, strings, choirs, sound effects, you name it. And, amazingly, it all works: Instead of a bloated, indecisive, self-indulgent mess, Rose -- whose corroded, Joplin-esque shriek is still capable of shattering glass -- has created an audacious, over-the-top masterpiece that almost justifies all the years and money and mayhem and hype.

And, to give the devil his due, that's a helluva trick in itself.

Chinese Democracy 4:41

Fade in on a haunting Asian melody, whispering voices and ominous arpeggios -- and cut to a buzzsaw guitar riff, a swaggering beat and snarled lyrics about power and control. After 17 years, what are Axl's first words? "It don't really matter ... All I got is precious time." So there.

Shackler's Revenge 3:35

Axl's fascination with electronica asserts itself here as he fuses squiggly keyboards and modem-shriek stabs with hard-chugging guitars and a serpentine beat. Call in GN'R V 2.0.

Better 5:00

Opening with a sing-songy falsetto vocal, a pulsing melody and a beatbox, this seems to be a ballad -- until it kicks into a surging mid-tempo electro-rocker. Now we know better.

Street of Dreams 4:46

Cue the strings: Now it's time for the big, lushly orchestrated grand-piano power ballad -- aka the disc's November Rain. Axl's throaty warbling takes some getting used to, but it works.

If the World 4:50

Can Axl be funky? Apparently, yes -- judging by the Philly soul strings, hip-hop backbeat and wah-wah chicken-scratch licks on this groovy slow-roller. Extra points for the flamenco guitar.

There Was a Time 6:38

An orchestra and choir merge with a beatbox and shuddering, distorted guitars, while Rose waxes nostalgic over an old flame. We presume the tune's acronym is not an accident.

Catcher in the Rye 5:53

Another piano-driven slow-burner set to a gently funky groove and topped with existential lyrics inspired by Salinger. Honestly, this is the only song here that doesn't quite cut it.

Scraped 3:27

An a cappella intro leads into a punchy rocker a la Welcome to the Jungle -- but topped with intricate duelling vocals about how Axl is "unstoppable." No kidding.

Riad N' the Bedouins 4:10

Bedouins? We have no idea what the hell Rose is on about. But the thundering tom-toms and -- sorry, N' -- hard-driving funk guitars are the real stars of the show anyway.

Sorry 6:12

Axl broods through this lethargically slow waltz, blasting an ex (or perhaps an ex-bandmate?) with lines like: "You talk too much / You say I do / Difference is nobody cares about you." Ouch.

I.R.S. 4:30

Returning to the slinky, slow-grinding rock, Rose enlists the president, a PI, the IRS and the FBI to catch a woman who's cheating on him -- or perhaps her taxes. Still, killer chorus.

Madagascar 5:39

Plummy horns and shivering strings, a grandly sweeping landscape, a mid-song audio collage that samples both Martin Luther King and Cool Hand Luke -- Rose pulls out all the stops here.

This I Love 5:34

One last yearning, richly orchestrated piano ballad for the girls -- and the Queen fans in the crowd. Surprisingly, but wisely, Axl keeps the studio trickery to a minimum.

Prostitute 6:12

And one last bombastic, even more richly orchestrated electro-rocker for the boys. "Why I would choose / To prostitute myself / To live with fortune and shame?" asks Axl. Translation: Don't hold your breath for the sequel.

---

GUNS N' ROSES

Chinese Democracy

Rock

Sun Rating: 5 out of 5

[The Catcher]

Best review yet!

[AC]

Blame Canada!

a.

[Smoking Guns]

Brave Words and Bloody Knuckles just put up their first of two reviews.  Here it is and I am afraid it is not good:

Yup, it's finally here ... do we care? The jury is still out. Do YOU the reader/listener care? Time will tell and the time is now! Here is the first of two (?) BraveWords.com reviews of GUNS N? ROSES' Chinese Democracy that FINALLY officially streets tomorrow (Sunday, November 23rd). Check out David Perri's take below:


Even just typing out that infamous record title for the purpose of this review is surreal. I mean, did anyone really think that Chinese Democracy would ever surface, let alone in 2008? It takes only one listen to this 14 year, $13 million purported tour-de-force to realize that W. Axl Rose, whether in a fit of delusion of grandeur or as a result of being seemingly a lonely recluse, has tried to create the greatest rock record of all time. He?s quite clearly not succeeded, but Chinese Democracy reeks of bombastic ambition anyway (and sometimes overbearingly so, as is the case in the opening moments of ?Madagascar?, ?There Was A Time? and ?Sorry?): it?s clear Rose aims high. But the main fault here, aside from the inexcusable sin of Slash and Duff not being involved, is that Chinese Democracy sounds dated, which is not surprising given that it's been in production since the Clinton administration?s first term. As well, when Chinese Democracy began its life-span, Rose?s obsession was then-superstar Nine Inch Nails and, though I?m a big fan of NIN, referencing Trent Reznor?s technological work in your own is always an immediate death sentence, as trendy technology has trouble standing the test of time. Chinese Democracy is at its best when Rose and his motley crew of hired guns (Tommy Stinson, you deserve so much better) do what Guns was once known for, namely rocking out with reckless abandon. As such, the top moments on Chinese Democracy are ?Riad N? The Bedouins? and ?Shackler?s Revenge? (despite that lame intro), with the title track/first single also showing potential, but no hook. Chinese Democracy?s undisputed highlight, however, is the brilliant ?Better?, a song that is amongst the best of the GN?R canon and should have acted as the archetype for the rest of Chinese Democracy. Elsewhere, Rose references everyone from the aforementioned Nine Inch Nails to Queen (and how), Pink Floyd, reggae, hip-hop and film soundtracks; ergo, Chinese Democracy feels like the inconsistent decade-old effort that it is, a record that is alternately confused, way too AM radio earnest (?Street Of Dreams?, ?Catcher In The Rye?) and morbidly fascinating, like that terrible highway wreck you just can?t take your eyes off of. After ten-plus years of not giving a shit about Axl Rose I have become curious enough to actually listen to Chinese Democracy, but that?s where it ends for Axl and his warped opus: the second Chinese Democracy is released, it loses all relevance, mystique and influence. The very fact that Chinese Democracy never surfaced is what made it so notorious and coveted, and now that it?s actually here it no longer possesses its vast cache of significance. In order to keep the cult of Chinese Democracy alive Rose should have never released this, and should have instead continued to offer only vague clues about the record via Sebastian Bach in the upcoming years. God damn, did anyone think W. Axl Rose was actually going to pull this off?

5/10