Chinese Democracy (Album) - Charting

[Ali]

Yeah, maybe you would get a smoother ride as an AC/DC fan, but you would also get the same damn record time after time.  That's not what I'm looking for.  Are you?  In the end, the album sales don't really affect us unless it prevents the band from releasing future albums

Nor do I. Obiviously GNR put out a much more compelling album than ACDC and Metallica. My problem is why does it end there? Why cant we have the amazing album(which we have) and not even get descent promo?

As for future albums. If album sales dont effect any future GNR albums then I could care less as well.

Who knows about the promo thing?  It's out of our hands, dude.  There is no point in fretting about it when we can't do anything about it.  Honestly, it's not our job.  We've done ours by buying the record and requesting the songs on the radio.

Ali

[Smoking Guns]

I don't know about you, but I don't need a band to be commercially successful and be "validated" in the public eye to feel justified in supporting them.

Nor do I. But you know what? I see other big time rock bands like Metallica and ACDC release an album and give their fans a smooth ride. For once as a GNR fan I would like to enjoy that. Its like if you have any sort of expectations with GNR you get blasted by other fans for being greedy or something. I never knew a video and some interviews were too much to expect. I never knew that wanting to see your band do well commercially was a bad thing.

Wanting commercial success isn't asking too much and that's not what I was implying.  Yeah, maybe you would get a smoother ride as an AC/DC fan, but you would also get the same damn record time after time.  That's not what I'm looking for.  Are you?  In the end, the album sales don't really affect us unless it prevents the band from releasing future albums.

Ali

AC/DC fans love this album because it fucking rocks.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Few bands can do what AC/DC, GNR, the Stones, etc can do....  AC/DC fans are loyal and pay good money because the band is still a great live act, releases solid CD's, gets excited about a release, sounds like AC/DC, has all original members (during the 80's and early 90's they had a couple different drummers and current singer replaced one that died), and seem like a real band.  Same with the Stones......  So yes, I like how AC/DC does business and its great being a fan of thiers.  No drama or soap opra.

[killingvector]

I agree, Ali. Poor sales will make it difficult for the band to move forward freely with future albums. I think it is vital this album sell well here in the States.

Does anyone know if the band's deal with UMG is finished?

I kind of disagree though.  The deal with Best Buy must have been good for at least $5 million and most likely more than that.  Combine that with good international sales and they recoup most or all of the recording costs and are basically playing with house money on future releases

The question is, though, how much will UMG put forward for the next Guns record given that this album may go platinum or less? Promotion costs big bucks and BB probably won't agree to offset the risk for the next Guns effort.

If axl delivers another album to UMG, I think the cost to finish that effort will be important. The label won't give him $5 million to finish it.

But the thing is, according to Bach and other sources, there are already 3 albums (including CD) that were basically done a couple years ago.  So if they can just recoup most of the $13 million or whatever they spent on CD on the first release, then the next two albums are basically "free" as in the only money that needs to be spent is on promotion

The reason I pulled out the $5 million minimum figure is because that's probably about what they'd make in net sales by selling 1.5 million records or so domestically with a wide release.  There's no way they would have taken anything less than that, and it was probably more.  I know that AC/DC and the Eagles got 10 figures for their Wal-Mart exclusives.  This album probably got less of a fee but it's probably in the ballpark

Either way I seriously doubt the next album would be a Best Buy album.  If they did any exclusive it would have to be Wal-Mart, or a wide release.  Wal-Mart is the only big box where these exclusives have actually worked that well.  I was just reading about how Christina Aguilera's latest album, which is a greatest hits packaged with a few new songs, was a Target exclusive and only hit 100K in its first week which was well below expectations

It could be true that two more albums of material are done, but I have my doubts that those songs are ready to go. I suspect that additional work is needed to finish off that material. The question is whether the label will fund those final touches and how much more work is needed? There are already rumors that Axl wasn't happy with the CD mix; he has been known to tinker with final touches for years on end.

But let's assume you are correct and the two albums are ready to go. Axl's best bet would be to release the material himself and reap all the profits. Why allow UMG to take its large cut when he effectively funded the creation of these songs (Universal paid itself off for the CD sessions with the BB deal).

Publicity though will cut against Axl; comparisons with Contraband are already being made in press reports of the first week sales. Does this lackluster showing affect the perception of Axl market viability? It is a perception that could carry over to the next album and infect the sales of the next two albums. I don't think he can wash his hands clean from this by letting CD clear him of burnt advances.

[Smoking Guns]

Yeah, maybe you would get a smoother ride as an AC/DC fan, but you would also get the same damn record time after time.  That's not what I'm looking for.  Are you?  In the end, the album sales don't really affect us unless it prevents the band from releasing future albums

Nor do I. Obiviously GNR put out a much more compelling album than ACDC and Metallica. My problem is why does it end there? Why cant we have the amazing album(which we have) and not even get descent promo?

As for future albums. If album sales dont effect any future GNR albums then I could care less as well.

Who knows about the promo thing?  It's out of our hands, dude.  There is no point in fretting about it when we can't do anything about it.  Honestly, it's not our job.  We've done ours by buying the record and requesting the songs on the radio.

Ali

If this album doesn't sell well, GNR will be searching for a new label unless you know what happens.

[killingvector]

Yeah, maybe you would get a smoother ride as an AC/DC fan, but you would also get the same damn record time after time.  That's not what I'm looking for.  Are you?  In the end, the album sales don't really affect us unless it prevents the band from releasing future albums

Nor do I. Obiviously GNR put out a much more compelling album than ACDC and Metallica. My problem is why does it end there? Why cant we have the amazing album(which we have) and not even get descent promo?

As for future albums. If album sales dont effect any future GNR albums then I could care less as well.

Who knows about the promo thing?  It's out of our hands, dude.  There is no point in fretting about it when we can't do anything about it.  Honestly, it's not our job.  We've done ours by buying the record and requesting the songs on the radio.

Ali

If this album doesn't sell well, GNR will be searching for a new label unless you know what happens.

Getting away from a major label could be a blessing in disguise. Axl has already put his own money into this project and likely will not see that back for this release unless sales turn around.

[Smoking Guns]

Yeah, maybe you would get a smoother ride as an AC/DC fan, but you would also get the same damn record time after time.  That's not what I'm looking for.  Are you?  In the end, the album sales don't really affect us unless it prevents the band from releasing future albums

Nor do I. Obiviously GNR put out a much more compelling album than ACDC and Metallica. My problem is why does it end there? Why cant we have the amazing album(which we have) and not even get descent promo?

As for future albums. If album sales dont effect any future GNR albums then I could care less as well.

Who knows about the promo thing?  It's out of our hands, dude.  There is no point in fretting about it when we can't do anything about it.  Honestly, it's not our job.  We've done ours by buying the record and requesting the songs on the radio.

Ali

If this album doesn't sell well, GNR will be searching for a new label unless you know what happens.

Getting away from a major label could be a blessing in disguise. Axl has already put his own money into this project and likely will not see that back for this release unless sales turn around.

A smaller label, does that mean even less promotion than what we got with this one?

[killingvector]

A smaller label, does that mean even less promotion than what we got with this one?

Is that possible?

I think that would mean Axl needs to do a lot more promotion on his own. Perhaps even tour before and during the first weeks of release.

[Ali]

I don't know about you, but I don't need a band to be commercially successful and be "validated" in the public eye to feel justified in supporting them.

Nor do I. But you know what? I see other big time rock bands like Metallica and ACDC release an album and give their fans a smooth ride. For once as a GNR fan I would like to enjoy that. Its like if you have any sort of expectations with GNR you get blasted by other fans for being greedy or something. I never knew a video and some interviews were too much to expect. I never knew that wanting to see your band do well commercially was a bad thing.

Wanting commercial success isn't asking too much and that's not what I was implying.  Yeah, maybe you would get a smoother ride as an AC/DC fan, but you would also get the same damn record time after time.  That's not what I'm looking for.  Are you?  In the end, the album sales don't really affect us unless it prevents the band from releasing future albums.

Ali

AC/DC fans love this album because it fucking rocks.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Few bands can do what AC/DC, GNR, the Stones, etc can do....  AC/DC fans are loyal and pay good money because the band is still a great live act, releases solid CD's, gets excited about a release, sounds like AC/DC, has all original members (during the 80's and early 90's they had a couple different drummers and current singer replaced one that died), and seem like a real band.  Same with the Stones......  So yes, I like how AC/DC does business and its great being a fan of thiers.  No drama or soap opra.

Completely irrelevant to what I said, but o.k.  Thanks for chiming in

Ali

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Just curious, does selling the catalog mean that Axl doesn't get any more future royalties from the old albums?

1. Minor correction: It charted #3 in the US.

2. If I remember correctly, Best Buy paid somewhere around $30 million cash up front for 3 million units.  AC/DC, IIRC, got twenty-some-odd million for 2.5 million copies at Wal-Mart.

At any rate, Axl's cut of $30m + the $19m he got from selling the catalogue = me panhandling on his doorstep.

Chief, I would think they all get royalties since they wrote the songs.  I think that deal means that songs are more easily licensed.  We hear GN'R in movies, video games, shows more often since that deal went down.

[FunkyMonkey]

GUNS N' ROSES' 'Chinese Democracy' Is Big In New Zealand - Dec. 3, 2008

GUNS N' ROSES' new album, "Chinese Democracy", has topped the New Zealand chart in its first full week of release. The CD, which debuted at No. 2, has already been certified platinum in the country for sales in excess of 15,000 copies.

Blabbermouth.net

[bolton]

As you can see from the last tour (gnr are stronger in europe than in US-in europe they had 90% of arenas sold out).
I live in europe,but i think us people are more dificult than european,so gnr have to put music there.

I except exploding in sales in US,after first video,and then after single for This I love.

[Bodhi]

As you can see from the last tour (gnr are stronger in europe than in US-in europe they had 90% of arenas sold out).
I live in europe,but i think us people are more dificult than european,so gnr have to put music there.

that is because America is too busy buying fucking nonsense like Nickelback, Daughtry, Hinder, Katy Perry, Pink, Beyonce, Kayne, Jay-z, Britney Spears, Jonas Brothers and so on.....

[badobsession_r21]

just the fact that it sold more than 100.000 copies in Germany and less than 300.000 in US, says it all.

[SLCPUNK]

America has a short shelf life, no surprise there. It's the way we have been marketed to our entire life. Out with the old, in with the new.

[Alfie Bones]

I don't know about you, but I don't need a band to be commercially successful and be "validated" in the public eye to feel justified in supporting them.

Nor do I. But you know what? I see other big time rock bands like Metallica and ACDC release an album and give their fans a smooth ride. For once as a GNR fan I would like to enjoy that. Its like if you have any sort of expectations with GNR you get blasted by other fans for being greedy or something. I never knew a video and some interviews were too much to expect. I never knew that wanting to see your band do well commercially was a bad thing.

Wanting commercial success isn't asking too much and that's not what I was implying.  Yeah, maybe you would get a smoother ride as an AC/DC fan, but you would also get the same damn record time after time.  That's not what I'm looking for.  Are you?  In the end, the album sales don't really affect us unless it prevents the band from releasing future albums.

Ali

AC/DC fans love this album because it fucking rocks.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Few bands can do what AC/DC, GNR, the Stones, etc can do....  AC/DC fans are loyal and pay good money because the band is still a great live act, releases solid CD's, gets excited about a release, sounds like AC/DC, has all original members (during the 80's and early 90's they had a couple different drummers and current singer replaced one that died), and seem like a real band.  Same with the Stones......  So yes, I like how AC/DC does business and its great being a fan of thiers.  No drama or soap opra.

You're seriously defending that piece of shit album?

It had 15 "new" tracks (that sounded like 30 year old b-sides) including such hits as:

Rock N Roll Train (the lead single)
She Likes Rock N Roll
Rock N Roll Dream
Rocking All The Way

It's 20 minutes shorter than Chinese Democracy, and doesn't have a single song that matches up to "Sorry", "This I Love", "Madagascar", or, for an AC/DC fan, "Back in Black" or "Highway to Hell".

[audjon]

Just curious, does selling the catalog mean that Axl doesn't get any more future royalties from the old albums?

1. Minor correction: It charted #3 in the US.

2. If I remember correctly, Best Buy paid somewhere around $30 million cash up front for 3 million units.  AC/DC, IIRC, got twenty-some-odd million for 2.5 million copies at Wal-Mart.

At any rate, Axl's cut of $30m + the $19m he got from selling the catalogue = me panhandling on his doorstep.

Chief, I would think they all get royalties since they wrote the songs.  I think that deal means that songs are more easily licensed.  We hear GN'R in movies, video games, shows more often since that deal went down.

And that might be necessary strategy from now on, license the hell out of the songs. Remember Moby and his record  Play? He couldn't get any airplay so they started to license the songs to movies, ads, TV series etc. - which led to airplay and huge sales.

[MeanBone]

Gn'r is number 9 in Portugal

http://www.artistas-espectaculos.com/topafp.php


Even Abba got on top.


Well i guess the fact that that monumental campaign never got here and that gn'r doesn't do videos and interviews or even promotes the record at any level could explain this.

So, if the band is happy with the lack of promotion they've been giving, this is a fair result.

[TWT]

So there are rumours that this was an "forced release", more or less. What do you think, Y/N?

That would explain all the mistakes in the booklet and Axl doing 0 press.

Yes, poor Axl was just in the middle of fixing that massive technical error in Scraped when Geffen rushed in and nicked the tapes off him and tied him up and left him in the corner of the studio. They told him that if he tried to escape, they'd put him thanking Slash in the booklet. It's all coming together now.

[Death Cube K]

Sales mean jack shit.

What is disappointing for me as a gnr fan is the fact that this is turning out to be a ho hum release. There is no effort from Best Buy or the band. Yea we are all excited and stoked about finally having CD but we all wanted to see this band thrive and validate itself to the public. We have been on here for years cheering these guys on, supporting them, waiting for soon to be the word. Soon has come, and its slowly slipping away.

Soon is coming and going. And that my friends is what is disappointing

Exactly. I feel rather embaressed for supporting this band so much and when the time came for them to take the ball and show everyone they're a band, Axl to do that interview everyone thought he would do, we would see the video we expected, and this would be proven for the public that it IS a real band like we all know here. The list goes on. Nothing happened. It was just the same old same old, and I NEVER EVER expected THAT! Did anyone here expect such an approach?

Instead they fail to deliver big time. Axl too. I'm very disappointed and sad. Not even one performance to promote the album. I mean, doesn't Axl want to sell the bloody album? Doesn't he know that not showing up for this will just confirm what everyone thinks in their minds, that Axl Rose doesn't give a fuck and is one crazy primadonna?

It's truly one of the biggest let downs I've ever seen. You could always blame ourselves and that WE expected this and made everything up inside our heads, but we expected them to work as a real band, like doing the things real bands do. Like Metallica or AC/DC did. Very embaressing.

[sandman]

GUNS N' ROSES: 'Chinese Democracy' Lands At No. 3 On Billboard Chart - Dec. 3, 2008 
 
GUNS N' ROSES' long-awaited new album, "Chinese Democracy", sold 261,000 copies in the United States in its first week of release (including a reported 25,000 downloads at iTunes on November 23 not counted towards the opening week) to debut at position No. 3 on The Billboard 200 chart.

source: Blabbermouth