Chinese Democracy (Album) - Charting

[Bigjoe]

Sorry, but there is just no way to call these first week sales in the US (which look to be in the 300,000 to 400,000 range) anything but disappointing.  Azoff is a great manager and a great promoter of bands who COOPERATE in the promotion.  Look at how many units the Eagles moved with their Wal-Mart exclusive (more than 700,000 in the first week).  But note that the Eagles (and AC/DC) were all over the place, doing interviews, videos, talk shows, etc.  Now, we can all talk about how many fewer Best Buys there are than Wal-Marts, Kanye, the changing times, etc., but the unmistakable fact here is that it is always difficult to promote an album/CD when the band itself does ZERO promotion.  More importantly, when Axl himself does nothing to promote the CD.

Does anyone seriously think that buzz and hype don't move a substantial amount of units?  Imagine the first week totals if:

1.  Guns played Better and Street of Dreams (or insert whatever) on Saturday Night Live.
2.  Axl did an exclusive interview and got a cover on Rolling Stone
3.  Guns did AMAs (to reach a more general demographic)
4.  Guns did David Letterman or Leno.
5.  Tour was announced and opened this week.


And so forth.  Please note that all the above are just standard things that just about every band does (in some fashion or other) to promote the album.  I know, I know, Axl marches to a different drummer and this is art over commerce.  But I think it is a shame because the album is quite good and ambitious, and should reach people.  Secondly, dare I mention, that a lot of money went into this project and doesn't Axl have an obligation to try to repay that money?  Third, the success or failure impacts the whole band, not just Axl.

Anyway, these first week's numbers in the US are pretty dire for CD doing much more than going platinum, if that.   Setting aside Kid Rock's strange sales pattern, the great majority of CDs (like movies nowadays) make the bulk of their sales in the first couple of weeks.  Unless a big single hits down the road, this will be the high water week sales-wise, and then you should see standard drop-offs.

I do not disagree with any of this, but here is what I think: Axl simply just doesn't care if the album sells or does not.  I think we fans care more in order to justify our love & loyalty to a band that has been MIA for 14 years and rendered "irrelevant" by today's state of American music.  Don't get me wrong, I wanted it to be #1 and personally refused to burn a copy of the CD for 2 friends because I wanted units to sell.  I have just resigned myself to the conclusion that Axl flat out doesn't give a shit if it sells or not, now that the record has been released and it is off his plate.  His loyal fans will continue to buy his new music and pay to see the band live whether Finck, Slash, Buckethead are on stage with him. 

If he doesn't care if it sells or not then maybe the record company won't give it to all his demands for the next album. If he won't help them make money, they won't give him money for the next. And if he does not get the money to make the album the way he wants to...it won't come out.

[HoldenCaulfield]

If this were any normal album release, I could completely comply with the "Axl doesn't care if it sells/the music will speak for itself/the album will sell itself" idea that most have bitten into, but the record company poured a lot of damn money into the album, and I just can't see how they haven't hogtied him and made him whore himself out to any talk show, awards show, or magazine that'll listen to him. Artistic integrity is respectable and all, but the record companies spend money to make money, and I don't really think they made a lot back with the Best Buy deal. It's just a weird situation all around...

[demo23nz]

Who really thinks that doing the late night or award show circuit is the way to go?  I dont.  Can you really see Axl sitting next to Leno or Letterman?

No, but I can see the band on the back of a truck on a New York Street outside Letterman's theater with a thousand fans screaming for them, and an interview in Rolling Stone (that would have got the cover) and a million other things before. Should have been able to go to the music section of the magazine rack and see Axl (and Bucket/Ron/Robin on the guitar mags).

[Shaggins13]

I know I will be watching the Grammy nominations show & concert Wednesday just to see if he makes a surprise appearance. 

[demo23nz]

Sorry, but there is just no way to call these first week sales in the US (which look to be in the 300,000 to 400,000 range) anything but disappointing.  Azoff is a great manager and a great promoter of bands who COOPERATE in the promotion.  Look at how many units the Eagles moved with their Wal-Mart exclusive (more than 700,000 in the first week).  But note that the Eagles (and AC/DC) were all over the place, doing interviews, videos, talk shows, etc.  Now, we can all talk about how many fewer Best Buys there are than Wal-Marts, Kanye, the changing times, etc., but the unmistakable fact here is that it is always difficult to promote an album/CD when the band itself does ZERO promotion.  More importantly, when Axl himself does nothing to promote the CD.

Does anyone seriously think that buzz and hype don't move a substantial amount of units?  Imagine the first week totals if:

1.  Guns played Better and Street of Dreams (or insert whatever) on Saturday Night Live.
2.  Axl did an exclusive interview and got a cover on Rolling Stone
3.  Guns did AMAs (to reach a more general demographic)
4.  Guns did David Letterman or Leno.
5.  Tour was announced and opened this week.


And so forth.  Please note that all the above are just standard things that just about every band does (in some fashion or other) to promote the album.  I know, I know, Axl marches to a different drummer and this is art over commerce.  But I think it is a shame because the album is quite good and ambitious, and should reach people.  Secondly, dare I mention, that a lot of money went into this project and doesn't Axl have an obligation to try to repay that money?  Third, the success or failure impacts the whole band, not just Axl.

Anyway, these first week's numbers in the US are pretty dire for CD doing much more than going platinum, if that.   Setting aside Kid Rock's strange sales pattern, the great majority of CDs (like movies nowadays) make the bulk of their sales in the first couple of weeks.  Unless a big single hits down the road, this will be the high water week sales-wise, and then you should see standard drop-offs.

You ever think that maybe GNR and Axl WILL do these things?  Like I mentioned earlier...I don't think it's a bad thing to promote over time instead of shooting your wad all in the first month!  I would much rather sell more records in the long run than in just the first week.

Yeah, but when a band sells a shitload the first week it generates hype/free advertising that then leads to sales down the line too.
Sure if you sell 700,000 week 1 you're going to see a big drop, but you're also going to get some purchases from peopl whose interest was piqued by the huge sales hype. The labels don't care about the 'glory' of a huge opening or being #1, they care about the hype and sales those things generate.

[Satapher]

well, Universal Music Groups Latin America has posted a press release telling that here in Colombia Chinese Democracy is the number 1 in charting/selling lists
http://www.universalmusic.com.co/newsl/nl008.html

THANX A LOT GUNS N' ROSES!!!!

[RitzWalker8]

I agree with the fact Axl does not care if it sells, if those sales have to be produced by whoring himself out to the media.  It appears that through the years his peers have misjudged him and that he cares more about the art than being cool.  If Cobain was living, maybe he could admit he miscalculated Axl's ego along with everyone else.  I hope it only sells asw many copies as there are people on this message board.  Screw everyone else.     

[FunkyMonkey]

http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/content_display/industry/e3i632e90144f07ffd6af8348f01aa9c601


Retailers: Black Friday Music Sales Down

December 01, 2008 - Retail

By Ed Christman, N.Y.

While mainstream media is touting that the Black Friday weekend started the holiday selling season with a bang, music merchandisers certainly didn't have that experience. Music sales were down anywhere from 10% to 30% and hit albums released for Black Friday didn't perform up to expectations, according to merchants contacted by Billboard.

According to sources, Kanye West's "808's & Heartbreak" will sell in the range of 425,000-450,000 units, significantly down from 700,000-975,000 units previously projected.

Guns N' Roses "Chinese Democracy" is expected to clock in at 250,000-260,000, which is also down from expectations that it would sell anywhere from 300,000-784,000 units.

While some press reports show across-the-board retail weekend sales up 7%, music merchandisers point out that in order to accurately measure the holiday, it should be measured the week containing Black Friday this year - which was the last week in November - versus last year, when the day fell in the third week of November. Consequently, some merchants say they doubt the validity of the 7% increase reported by the mainstream media.

At music specialty stores Newbury Comics sales were down 21% on a comparable store basis for the last two weeks of November, while music sales were down 28%, reports the Brighton, Mass.-based chain's CEO Mike Dreese.

In Marietta, Ga., comparable-store sales were down 5%, according to Value Music president Rob Perkins. But the chain had yet to breakdown music sales and other categories at deadline.

At big box retailers like Wal-Mart and Barnes & Noble, label executives report that hit sales were off significantly for the Black Friday weekend, anywhere from 30% to 40%.

On the other hand, as expected, online shopping was stronger than last year, says an executive with a wholesaler that does CD and DVD fulfillment for online stores. But he declined to provide details, other than to say that Friday was better than Thursday, for the first time.

"I hear traffic was high, but overall purchasing wasn't because shoppers were cherry picking the deals," says one senior distribution executive.

[Shaggins13]

Let's all stop "blaming" Best Buy/management/Axl and the band for not making any appearances.  The real reason:

Kids (youths between ages 10-18) just don't listen to rock music anymore.  Period.  Blame their parents, their schools, Disney Channel & Nickelodeon, lack of big brothers & sisters to pass things on and down, whatever you want - when I grew up (I'm 32) if you were white, you listened to rock and roll.  Now, white kids in suburbia listen to Justin Timberlake, T.I., 50 Cent, Pink, and whatever American Idol flavor du jour is out there.  Kids think rock is Nickeback & Daughtry!!  Another example: My boss's kids are 9 & 12 and all they listen to is rap & hip hop and they live in York frigging Maine!!  Boston is the nearest city and it is 60 miles away. 

Of course, this is a stereotypical/generalization I am making here, and in no way was that "white" comment meant to be racist.  I'm just calling what I see at this point. 

I'm trying to reverse this trend: I have 3 kids - ages 9, 6, 4 - and all 3 like rock music, especially Guns N Roses, U2, and all the bands I grew up with!  We don't allow all that poppy, mass marketed crap into the house! 

Just throwing this out there...American music has changed.  True, great, epic, rock is a lost art form in this country.  This is why GNR's new album is much needed - to keep this genre alive!   

[demo23nz]

Let's all stop "blaming" Best Buy/management/Axl and the band for not making any appearances.  The real reason:

Kids (youths between ages 10-18) just don't listen to rock music anymore. 

Metallica and AC/DC both did okay first week out.

[demo23nz]

I agree with the fact Axl does not care if it sells, if those sales have to be produced by whoring himself out to the media.  It appears that through the years his peers have misjudged him and that he cares more about the art than being cool.  If Cobain was living, maybe he could admit he miscalculated Axl's ego along with everyone else.  I hope it only sells asw many copies as there are people on this message board.  Screw everyone else.     

You talk like Axl is the only one who put time/money/effort into this thing.

Besides, doing a couple of interviews so your fans can hear your thoughts on the album, a live performance or two, and maybe having a tour ready to go when your album is released is NOT whoring yourself out. That's a ridiculous sentiment.

[Buddha_Master]

I agree with the fact Axl does not care if it sells, if those sales have to be produced by whoring himself out to the media.  It appears that through the years his peers have misjudged him and that he cares more about the art than being cool.  If Cobain was living, maybe he could admit he miscalculated Axl's ego along with everyone else.  I hope it only sells asw many copies as there are people on this message board.  Screw everyone else.     

You talk like Axl is the only one who put time/money/effort into this thing.

Besides, doing a couple of interviews so your fans can hear your thoughts on the album, a live performance or two, and maybe having a tour ready to go when your album is released is NOT whoring yourself out. That's a ridiculous sentiment.

Then why do you think Axl isn't out there?

[Is he struggling?]

It's possible that, in return for being able to sell CD exclusively, Best Buy could have insisted that it be released during Thanksgiving week, before the band could get ready to do a video, rehearse for a tour etc.

Just a hypothesis.

[demo23nz]

I agree with the fact Axl does not care if it sells, if those sales have to be produced by whoring himself out to the media.  It appears that through the years his peers have misjudged him and that he cares more about the art than being cool.  If Cobain was living, maybe he could admit he miscalculated Axl's ego along with everyone else.  I hope it only sells asw many copies as there are people on this message board.  Screw everyone else.     

You talk like Axl is the only one who put time/money/effort into this thing.

Besides, doing a couple of interviews so your fans can hear your thoughts on the album, a live performance or two, and maybe having a tour ready to go when your album is released is NOT whoring yourself out. That's a ridiculous sentiment.

Then why do you think Axl isn't out there?

I have no real idea. My point was more that I don't think basic promo is whoring yourself out at all, and given Axl HAS done the occasional interview/tour/tv appearance over the last few years I kind of figure THAT isn't the reason. Or not the whole reason anyway.

[GeraldFord]

It's been about one week...

"Better" will hit radio tommorow...

People need to relax.

250k isn't so bad, really.

[Buddha_Master]

I think a thing to consider is how history will see this album. A shit album that sells great because the artist has a show on the disney channel or something, is something that will be forgotten and is something that isn't meant to last. A product of its time.

Chinese Democracy is a rare album with music for all time. Some just don't want it now because of whatever baggage they are associating with it. But in time, those lines begin to blur and the music gets to penetrate as it was meant to. Good music finds a way. And soon enough all will have to acknowledge that. Then Chinese Democracy will truly get its due.

... And it's respect.

[jaknudsen]

CD goes from #5 to #2 on this week's album chart in Norway, not bad. The Killers debut at #1 ?

[killingvector]

There has to be some kind of promotion planned. I can't believe it was decided that a cardboard knockdown, myspace stream, and a few commercials was the whole ballgame.

These numbers should turn around (they will decline but hopefully hold firm for a few weeks) but Axl needs to come out and make a few appearances. If there is a band in tact to actually play a few one offs on television, even better. But for this all to simply die off without any real push is shocking to me.


Azoff and Gould are too smart to let it proceed this way which is why I think there is more to come.

[Gunzen]

I love the CD.  I used to care how it sold, but al long as there is a tour, I am good woth whatever it does actually.

[veritas55]

Azoff and Gould are too smart to let it proceed this way which is why I think there is more to come.

Exactly -- but I don't think there is anymore to really come.  You always put your strongest promotion upfront because big first-week sales generate great press, which in turn generates more sales buzz, etc. -- lots of people buy CDs based upon what is "big."  Selling 300,000 in its first week is going to generate alot of negative press about CD "bombing."  Sorry, but that's never a good campaign strategy and I bet you that Azoff and Gould would never had wanted a gradual marketing campaign: they wanted this to explode out of the box, like Metallica, The Eagles, AC/DC did in their first week.

I suspect that Axl's no-show has nothing to do with Azoff or Universal's strategy: I bet it is just that Axl doesn't want to do the press because it's perceived as "whoring" and because he (understandably) probably doesn't want to deal with all the old band, reunion, and "why did it take so long" questions.  The last reason is probably unconvincing because nowadays your press agent can pretty much control what questions you are asked and those could all be off limits.  It's pretty clear that, as in the making of the album, no one at the record company or in management really has any control over Axl's actions.

Now, if you want to get conspiratorial, it may well be that the Best Buy deal and the timing were not Axl's preferred plan.  He may have had something else in mind and maybe felt forced by either the record company or management to cut this deal.  Put simply, if Best Buy made 3 million pre-purchase (with 1.5 million unreturnables, which is the rumored deal), perhaps ALL of that money went directly to Universal (with Azoff's cut) and the terms of deal may have been very unfavorable to Axl because of all the burnt advance money.  Remember, these negotiations took a LONG time.  It may be that Axl views himself as having gotten "screwed" on the financials of this deal and took the approach of "fine, the record comes out, you recoup some of the money, but I will be damned if I have to go out on a dog-and-pony show to make money for Universal exclusively."

Finally, the greatest conspiracy of it all is that Azoff is famously known for reuniting bands and so the record company and management forces are in cahoots to make sure that CD doesn't do too well.  (I don't buy any of that, by the way.)