Chinese Democracy (Album) - Charting

[makane]

So I just read on hitsdailydouble.com that UMG pocketed a guaranteed $14 million for selling 1.6 million unreturnable units to Best Buy

In other words, they probably don't give much of a fuck about promoting this album in the US anymore.  In other words they've basically recouped recording costs from the entire CD trilogy, they will count the money from international record sales and have two more GnR albums in the can that have been paid for

So the only one hurting from this deal is Best Buy

I think the GnR brand has taken a bit hit here too. Again, work no doubt must be done on the second/third albums and there is a question of who will fund that. Promotion for the follow ups may not be funded well either if expectations are so low. Also, if the GnR brand is damaged, there may be an affect on radio airplay and the size of the subsequent tour.

I also wonder what will be the situation with the funding of the possible TOUR? If UMG got most of their money back, I doubt theyre willing to fund a GN'R tour now?

If I don't remember wrong, Trent had to pay himself for the tour that followed the release of "The Fragile". (Fragile went n.1 on the first week, but then "bombed" down the charts)

[ShotgunBlues1978]

So I just read on hitsdailydouble.com that UMG pocketed a guaranteed $14 million for selling 1.6 million unreturnable units to Best Buy

In other words, they probably don't give much of a fuck about promoting this album in the US anymore.  In other words they've basically recouped recording costs from the entire CD trilogy, they will count the money from international record sales and have two more GnR albums in the can that have been paid for

So the only one hurting from this deal is Best Buy

I think the GnR brand has taken a bit hit here too. Again, work no doubt must be done on the second/third albums and there is a question of who will fund that. Promotion for the follow ups may not be funded well either if expectations are so low. Also, if the GnR brand is damaged, there may be an affect on radio airplay and the size of the subsequent tour.

I think it's a bit premature to start writing epitaphs about the brand name after one week, in a market where $14 million has already been made.  International sales have shown to be strong if not incredible, but more than enough to justify GnR's financial viability

To keep it in context, AC/DC's last album before this only sold about 170,000 first week, and that was 8 years ago.  It was considered a flop by their standards but they came back in a big way with their last album at least in terms of sales and financial success

We don't know what if any work needs to be done on the next albums.  For all we know they're completely finished.  Axl's comment about "working on 32 songs, 26 are "almost" done" in early 2006 seems to indicate that there's at least 12 songs left. 

Whatever albums come down the line won't carry the "13 years, $13 million, no Slash" stigma because all that stuff is out of the way.  People will be more open to just judging the music for what it is.  I think the release in and of itself is a big monkey off the back of everyone involved

And again, recording costs have already been recouped.  CD is going to make a healthy profit for the record label regardless of how it sells int he US.  If they realize they have 2 more complete or nearly complete albums that have already been paid for by the Best Buy deal, why wouldn't they back them?  It's not like the label's going to refuse to release albums that are good for at least 3-4 million sales worldwide that they don't even have to pay for

It's not like CD would be the first, or last, album from a huge artist that failed to live up to expectations.  Look at Madonna.  Her last few albums have not sold especially well by her standards in the US but she still gets big advances and promo budgets because of international sales.  Her latest album has sold like 700,000 in the US but 3.5 million worldwide.  The one before that did like 1.5 million in the US but 8 million worldwide.  The US sales charts are not the be all end all in terms of label support.  Money is, and this album is already making money one week after its release

[killingvector]

So I just read on hitsdailydouble.com that UMG pocketed a guaranteed $14 million for selling 1.6 million unreturnable units to Best Buy

In other words, they probably don't give much of a fuck about promoting this album in the US anymore.  In other words they've basically recouped recording costs from the entire CD trilogy, they will count the money from international record sales and have two more GnR albums in the can that have been paid for

So the only one hurting from this deal is Best Buy

I think the GnR brand has taken a bit hit here too. Again, work no doubt must be done on the second/third albums and there is a question of who will fund that. Promotion for the follow ups may not be funded well either if expectations are so low. Also, if the GnR brand is damaged, there may be an affect on radio airplay and the size of the subsequent tour.

I think it's a bit premature to start writing epitaphs about the brand name after one week, in a market where $14 million has already been made.  International sales have shown to be strong if not incredible, but more than enough to justify GnR's financial viability

To keep it in context, AC/DC's last album before this only sold about 170,000 first week, and that was 8 years ago.  It was considered a flop by their standards but they came back in a big way with their last album at least in terms of sales and financial success

We don't know what if any work needs to be done on the next albums.  For all we know they're completely finished.  Axl's comment about "working on 32 songs, 26 are "almost" done" in early 2006 seems to indicate that there's at least 12 songs left. 

Whatever albums come down the line won't carry the "13 years, $13 million, no Slash" stigma because all that stuff is out of the way.  People will be more open to just judging the music for what it is.  I think the release in and of itself is a big monkey off the back of everyone involved

And again, recording costs have already been recouped.  CD is going to make a healthy profit for the record label regardless of how it sells int he US.  If they realize they have 2 more complete or nearly complete albums that have already been paid for by the Best Buy deal, why wouldn't they back them?  It's not like the label's going to refuse to release albums that are good for at least 3-4 million sales worldwide that they don't even have to pay for

Believe me, I am hanging in there. Unless Better catches on, the fate of this album has been pretty much sealed here the States. The American media will go an extra mile getting that message out.  As far as the brand name, well Axl certainly can recoup that with success later on, but he will have to put on his game face and get both himself and this band out there to promote it.

In many ways, I hope CD was the last gasp for UMG and GnR. It would be nice for Axl to avoid a middle man between himself and the fans.

On a side note, Axl financed a good portion of the final recordings of this album. It is uncertain if the BB deal allowed him to recoup those costs. 

[loretian]

Better may catch on, but until Gn'R puts out their biggest song, which will be a ballad song, I wouldn't call this over.

Gn'R great success has always come from their ballads (or ballad type songs).  Until that single is released, nothing is over.

[makane]

So I just read on hitsdailydouble.com that UMG pocketed a guaranteed $14 million for selling 1.6 million unreturnable units to Best Buy

In other words, they probably don't give much of a fuck about promoting this album in the US anymore.  In other words they've basically recouped recording costs from the entire CD trilogy, they will count the money from international record sales and have two more GnR albums in the can that have been paid for

So the only one hurting from this deal is Best Buy

I think the GnR brand has taken a bit hit here too. Again, work no doubt must be done on the second/third albums and there is a question of who will fund that. Promotion for the follow ups may not be funded well either if expectations are so low. Also, if the GnR brand is damaged, there may be an affect on radio airplay and the size of the subsequent tour.

I think it's a bit premature to start writing epitaphs about the brand name after one week, in a market where $14 million has already been made.  International sales have shown to be strong if not incredible, but more than enough to justify GnR's financial viability

To keep it in context, AC/DC's last album before this only sold about 170,000 first week, and that was 8 years ago.  It was considered a flop by their standards but they came back in a big way with their last album at least in terms of sales and financial success

We don't know what if any work needs to be done on the next albums.  For all we know they're completely finished.  Axl's comment about "working on 32 songs, 26 are "almost" done" in early 2006 seems to indicate that there's at least 12 songs left. 

Whatever albums come down the line won't carry the "13 years, $13 million, no Slash" stigma because all that stuff is out of the way.  People will be more open to just judging the music for what it is.  I think the release in and of itself is a big monkey off the back of everyone involved

And again, recording costs have already been recouped.  CD is going to make a healthy profit for the record label regardless of how it sells int he US.  If they realize they have 2 more complete or nearly complete albums that have already been paid for by the Best Buy deal, why wouldn't they back them?  It's not like the label's going to refuse to release albums that are good for at least 3-4 million sales worldwide that they don't even have to pay for

Believe me, I am hanging in there. Unless Better catches on, the fate of this album has been pretty much sealed here the States. The American media will go an extra mile getting that message out.  As far as the brand name, well Axl certainly can recoup that with success later on, but he will have to put on his game face and get both himself and this band out there to promote it.

In many ways, I hope CD was the last gasp for UMG and GnR. It would be nice for Axl to avoid a middle man between himself and the fans.

On a side note, Axl financed a good portion of the final recordings of this album. It is uncertain if the BB deal allowed him to recoup those costs. 

One would think they made some sort of agreement, which included maybe UMG paying Axl back certain percentage if he delivers it?

[Continental Drift]

The brand name is an interesting question. The good news is that the album has received many positive reviews from a wide-variety of publications. To the the extent that the "Guns N' Roses" name stands for producing quality music... that's STILL pretty much there IMHO. The commercial viability (admittedly more important when talking about "brand names") of the brand "Guns N' Roses" has probably been diminished somewhat- but that was basically inevitable no matter how much the cd sold. Albums simply don't fly off the shelves like they did in 1991. No band has really been spared from that cold hard reality. Also, the commercial viability would probably recover significantly if that thing that should not be talked about were to come to pass as well. Not suggesting Axl is interested in that- in fact I'm hoping for the current band to hit the road in 2009 and to play the fuck out of Chinese Democracy- but my point is that the brand name is NOT permanently damaged IMHO.

[D]

What's the point of the label or Axl promoting an album they have already profited off of thanks to Best Buy?

Im sure Universal arent gonna sink their profits into an album they won't make another dime off of.

[ShotgunBlues1978]

The world album charts should be out tomorrow.  I bet GnR will be #1 by a wide margin

For example, last week's charts were topped by Beyonce, she sold over 500K in the US but only 600K worldwide

Nickelback was #2, with 507,000

GnR was at #18, with 100,000 sold, and that was just for November 21-22 when it hadn't been released everywhere

GnR should be near or above a million

[kyrie]

Ok I just have to chime in with this:

I haven't been to the US since the summer, but we have Best Buy here in Canuckville, where the album went #1 with 70,000 units sold. And we have about 33 million people to the US's 301 million (numbers for 2007 approx. via a quick Google search).

Do the math, we have about a 10th of the population, so why are the sales here comparatively better?

1) No exclusive deal. That said, the Best Buy deal means GNR will eventually move 1.6 million units of the album - it might just take a while.

That said - WTF Best Buy?!? Ok we have Best Buy, WalMart, HMV, Sunrise etc. here. Plus a ton of others that I'm missing. WalMart had a few posters up, Best Buy - I didn't even notice the CD.

You know who fucking pushed it up here? HMV! Played the entire album non-stop in the store, huge cardboard displays, posters, etc. There were like 5 other people in the store when I was there and three were buying the album. I just happened to be at the Best Buy the same day DVD shopping and the effort was LAME.

If they did anything like that in the US then it's clear they don't know how to market a CD. I know the exclusive was US only so they're not obligated to promote it up here, but if you want to move units of anything new, you make it prominent in the store!

2) Promotion - yeah it would have helped. Definitely.

3) Rock is still taking a backseat to hip hop etc in the States... the market here is much more rock-friendly. Some of GNR's biggest shows here on the last tour were the Canadian ones... and look how many cities they hit here, there were about 10 dates North of the border.

btw those Canuck sales figures may not be up to AC/DC's but they're still good, the album will likely go several times platinum here fairly quickly.

[killingvector]

The world album charts should be out tomorrow.  I bet GnR will be #1 by a wide margin

For example, last week's charts were topped by Beyonce, she sold over 500K in the US but only 600K worldwide

Nickelback was #2, with 507,000

GnR was at #18, with 100,000 sold, and that was just for November 21-22 when it hadn't been released everywhere

GnR should be near or above a million

Worldwide No. 1 is a pretty awesome accomplishment.

It is the No. 1 rock album in the US as well this week.

You are right, in a wider view, things look much brighter.

[GnR-NOW]

I wouldn't look at #3 as a failure.  Kanye didn't reach his projected numbers either and he has been way more mainstream the GNR  the past 5 years.  GNR has a limited exposure, even when they toured in 2006, if you werent already a GNR fan you wouldve have been suprised to hear Guns N Roses are touring.  And there were #1 on the Rock chart.  I think the album will have longs legs for a while and will sell well.  Exposure will help but, if you have the album and think its great then GNR did their job.  And they were the highest selling Geffen album of 2008.  So if Geffen was smart they woudl not drop them.

[JuicySwoos]

The world album charts should be out tomorrow.  I bet GnR will be #1 by a wide margin

For example, last week's charts were topped by Beyonce, she sold over 500K in the US but only 600K worldwide

Nickelback was #2, with 507,000

GnR was at #18, with 100,000 sold, and that was just for November 21-22 when it hadn't been released everywhere

GnR should be near or above a million

Worldwide No. 1 is a pretty awesome accomplishment.

It is the No. 1 rock album in the US as well this week.

You are right, in a wider view, things look much brighter.

Agreed.  Most people are viewing the sales figures of chin dem with the prism of 87-93 record sales. When you do that of course it is a "failure". Heck I got caught up in that too.  I thought it would sell more but it did not, oh well.   I get the whole Metallica and AC/DC sales comparison thing, but on the flipside Motley Crues album debuted at number 4 and has barely sold over 300k overall. We got the number one rock album in the world playing on our ipods, cd players, and turntables.

[axlroses]

People have been throwing around the words flop and bust.  What is the exact definition?  I know expectations were high, but for a band that hasn't put out an album(new material) in like 15 years and has a new cast of characters I think it did fine.  I am not under the impression it will just fade away either.  When they tour it will kick up sales and Christmas is right around the corner too.  If it doesn't chart as high as people expected or doesn't sell as much as predicted oh well.  In my opinion it is a great album that is all that really counts.

[Continental Drift]

In a vacuum it didn't flop at all. Hundreds of thousands of bands out there would cut their arms off to move 260,000+ units, enter the Billboard charts at #3 overall and #1 on the Rock charts- not to mention all the great success the album has had overseas. One can certainly expect (hope) for sales to continue through the holiday season too. For these reasons alone the album could never rightfully be called a flop IMHO.

The problem of course is that most do not view this album in a vacuum. Guns N' Roses has never been anything to them other than a multi- multi- multi- platinum act. Anything short of that and they quickly assume it's a "flop", "bust" or "bomb", etc. An overly simplistic way of viewing things IMHO.

I still believe at the end of the day that this album will have respectable numbers. It will get there somehow.

[BFD]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet but Green Day's American Idiot sold the same amount of copies as Chinese Democracy did in its opening week.  It went on to sell 15 million records worldwide, win a Grammy and be adored by the critics. 

[FunkyMonkey]

Chinese Democracy enters Billboard album chart

Guns N' Roses "Chinese Democracy" sold 261, 191 copies in the USA during its first week and entered the Top 200 album chart at #3 and at #1 on the Rock Album Chart.

The album had the highest unit sales number of any Interscope Geffen A&M debut in 2008. In comparison, the last Guns N' Roses full length album "The Spaghetti Incident?" debuted at #4 on album chart with 189,648 sales in November 1993.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=1965

[Thinizzy]

 If you think about it tho, it is pretty badass i guess since we only got the promotion that out thier and still sold this many copies. what really sucks is that, atleast at my local station, everytime gnr or axl is mentioned it always seemed negitive. so that doesnt help either i guess. What is the amount of albums that need to be sold for CD to reach gold, plat, 2x plat etc in the U.S.

[ShotgunBlues1978]

If you think about it tho, it is pretty badass i guess since we only got the promotion that out thier and still sold this many copies. what really sucks is that, atleast at my local station, everytime gnr or axl is mentioned it always seemed negitive. so that doesnt help either i guess. What is the amount of albums that need to be sold for CD to reach gold, plat, 2x plat etc in the U.S.

Gold is 500,000

Platinum is 1,000,000, everything from there is measured in millions i.e. 2x platinum is 2 million

[Falun Gong]

That number is pretty good considering it is only available at best buy.  They won't mention that in any articles though since most of the press is outta get Axl.  This album will sell millions of copies when is all said and done.

[Ali]

If you think about it tho, it is pretty badass i guess since we only got the promotion that out thier and still sold this many copies. what really sucks is that, atleast at my local station, everytime gnr or axl is mentioned it always seemed negitive. so that doesnt help either i guess. What is the amount of albums that need to be sold for CD to reach gold, plat, 2x plat etc in the U.S.

Gold is 500,000

Platinum is 1,000,000, everything from there is measured in millions i.e. 2x platinum is 2 million

Yeah, but certifications are based on albums shipped, not sold, correct?

Ali