Chinese Democracy (Album) - Charting

[GnR-NOW]

Well according to Axl, and it sounds reasonable.  It seems like everyone that was in charge of the promotion decisions were like " eh , its Guns N Roses, it will sell" and the truth of it is it needed promotion and did not get it from the label.

[younggunner]

Well according to Axl, and it sounds reasonable.  It seems like everyone that was in charge of the promotion decisions were like " eh , its Guns N Roses, it will sell" and the truth of it is it needed promotion and did not get it from the label.

Maybe. I guess both are to blame.

[Loaded NightraiN]

D I agree with what you are saying, but I dont think the record company had much of a choice...

How long would it have taken to have Axl ready to release the album and tour on his own accord??

They just wanted it out, and with the BB deal making them their money, how could they pass it up?

[D]

D I agree with what you are saying, but I dont think the record company had much of a choice...

How long would it have taken to have Axl ready to release the album and tour on his own accord??

They just wanted it out, and with the BB deal making them their money, how could they pass it up?

oh yeah u are right and I agree. I guess it falls into the category of us falling victim to our own expectations.  But in our defense, Axl and Co. have spoiled us over the years by doing cool shit like the UYI double album release which was genius and touring for months and months before the albums were out, making some of the grandest and most awesome videos ever.


I think what is lost sometimes is, people now want to treat GNR like some underground Indy band or something... GNR are a mainstream band whether u like it or not and they are one of the biggest bands/brands in the world.  So the release of CD should've been awesome and groundbreaking and amazing.


I am the king of bad analogies and this one wont' disappoint

Its like a woman going out on a huge date... she spends hours on her hair, hours on her makeup, gets her nails done, picks out the perfect pair of shoes, pefect jacket, and then goes dressed in a tshirt and sweatpants.


CD was crafted to be perfect, it has songs that run the realm of emotion and every note is labored over and no cost or no time was spared to craft the perfect album

yet when that album is finally completed, u just throw it out there and say here ya go.

this is the album everyone has been waiting for, and it just deserved the proper release.

[Yellow Discipline]

Very well said.

[gunns1]

D I agree with what you are saying, but I dont think the record company had much of a choice...

How long would it have taken to have Axl ready to release the album and tour on his own accord??

They just wanted it out, and with the BB deal making them their money, how could they pass it up?

oh yeah u are right and I agree. I guess it falls into the category of us falling victim to our own expectations.  But in our defense, Axl and Co. have spoiled us over the years by doing cool shit like the UYI double album release which was genius and touring for months and months before the albums were out, making some of the grandest and most awesome videos ever.


I think what is lost sometimes is, people now want to treat GNR like some underground Indy band or something... GNR are a mainstream band whether u like it or not and they are one of the biggest bands/brands in the world.  So the release of CD should've been awesome and groundbreaking and amazing.


I am the king of bad analogies and this one wont' disappoint

Its like a woman going out on a huge date... she spends hours on her hair, hours on her makeup, gets her nails done, picks out the perfect pair of shoes, pefect jacket, and then goes dressed in a tshirt and sweatpants.


CD was crafted to be perfect, it has songs that run the realm of emotion and every note is labored over and no cost or no time was spared to craft the perfect album

yet when that album is finally completed, u just throw it out there and say here ya go.

this is the album everyone has been waiting for, and it just deserved the proper release.

Well said man, and im sure not many people will dispute your point.

An album of this magnitude deserves to have a proper release of a grand scale with all the right promotional and marketing plans.
Im sure Azoff+team will kick off the 'monumental marketing plan' soon enough.

[waxlrick]

Here is my take as far as sales are concerned.

For me, it isn't necessarily the fact CD hasn't exploded, it is just how the album release has been handled.

I just thought when CD was released, Everything would be ready.

So much time and effort was put into CD, I figured when it finally came out, GNR would be back.

I don't know if that makes a lot of sense, but Axl seems to have always been a marketing genius for the most part.

The fact CD came out the way it did with so much mishandled stuff, was shocking to me cause I thought CD wouldn't come out till everything was perfect and ready to go.

Just seems sort of a let down that after 13 years, this release could be so mismanaged.

That isn't to blame anyone, I think the label got a can't pass up deal, they had the album, and they just rush released it.

This was the most anticipated rock album probably ever, and it deserved a better release strategy.


once again, im not blaming anyone in particular, I am sure once the label had it, Axl had no more control over it. seems he even could've been misled by the label.

Thanks D.

Some people need it spelled out them and would rather resort to rediculous hypotheticals, so they can read their own post back and laugh.

[acompleteunknown]

once again, u are so stuck on towing the company line, u can't even comprehend what I am saying.

most bands are ready to roll as soon as the album is released with  video,tour, promotion, something

CD was released with some tv commercials and that was it.

If GNR were out there working their asses off and doing what bands do when they have a new album out, I wouldn't care if the album sold 40k copies.  The fact that the album to this point has been handled the way it has, is just really surprising when u factor in how much time they took to get it right.  Why would u then mess up the release of an album u worked so many years to make just right?

I comprehend what you are saying...I just think you're still stuck in a 1990s mind set on how to sell music.  I still have no idea how you could possibly think that Chi Dem had no promotion.  You keep saying..."it needs proper promotion"  Okay, what does that mean?  Examples. 

You give general ideas like...videos (which is a dead music form).  touring...which the band just did.  And it was largely successful.  And "promotion"... nice general term.  I'm still waiting on specifics.

GNR is the first band to release a song through Rock Band.  they had a new song in a movie.  they're music has been featured in major sporting events from WWE, to football, to NASCAR.  They've had TV commercials.  do you realize how expensive TV commercials are?  they've had two singles.  Axl has given a ton of interviews.

So what else is missing?  What else should the band have done?  What's this big comeback plan that Axl should have had in order?

[waxlrick]

once again, u are so stuck on towing the company line, u can't even comprehend what I am saying.

most bands are ready to roll as soon as the album is released with  video,tour, promotion, something

CD was released with some tv commercials and that was it.

If GNR were out there working their asses off and doing what bands do when they have a new album out, I wouldn't care if the album sold 40k copies.  The fact that the album to this point has been handled the way it has, is just really surprising when u factor in how much time they took to get it right.  Why would u then mess up the release of an album u worked so many years to make just right?

I comprehend what you are saying...I just think you're still stuck in a 1990s mind set on how to sell music.  I still have no idea how you could possibly think that Chi Dem had no promotion.  You keep saying..."it needs proper promotion"  Okay, what does that mean?  Examples. 

You give general ideas like...videos (which is a dead music form).  touring...which the band just did.  And it was largely successful.  And "promotion"... nice general term.  I'm still waiting on specifics.

GNR is the first band to release a song through Rock Band.  they had a new song in a movie.  they're music has been featured in major sporting events from WWE, to football, to NASCAR.  They've had TV commercials.  do you realize how expensive TV commercials are?  they've had two singles.  Axl has given a ton of interviews.

So what else is missing?  What else should the band have done?  What's this big comeback plan that Axl should have had in order?

I dont believe that you dont see how limited the marketing campain has been. Major sporting events...in America only. Two singles?...have you seen them in your local music shop? or any music shop for that matter. Rock Band (yeah cause everybody plays video games..)and half a song at the end of a movie which wasn't even included on the sound track. As for the vidoe discussion, I think you'll find that videos often sell the product, more than the music itself.

I am tellin ya buddy, 98% of the planet don't even know GNR have a new album out!

[erose]

As an Axl Poser, as someone so politely pointed out to me, I'll say thank god Axl isn't whoring himself out over this, doing every interview available etc. acting desperate for something he nor us need anyway. It's just not worth it.

Remember what VR did before releasing contraband? They sold themselves like crack junkies on skid row. The first big interview was great and they did sell a few more records I'm sure, but they also created, intentionally or not, a fuckin' mess witch back fired tremendously. Burning bridges like motherfuckers only to end up looking like fools with no where to go.

Now if they did all these interviews because they wanted to and only talked about VR it would be cool, but they didn't. It was really obvious that it was a drag. They didn't do one interview without talking about Axl and GN'R. Must have felt really great for them. I'm not blaming them for being asked those questions, but they could have refused to answer. I'm sure whores find a good fuck enjoyable too sometimes, but not if they really didn't want to fuck in the first place.

Same thing with Axl and GN'R. They're going to be asked the same stupid fuckin' questions over and over, the answers are going to be twisted and they'll end up feeling butt fucked. Unlike i.e. Slash, Axl learned at some point that people in the press can not be trusted so he basically said fuck'em and decided to stick with the original idea of letting the music speak for itself. Now thats real.

I can totally dig an Axl interview, there's actually few things I enjoy more to read, but it's like being fed burgers every fuckin' day. At some point good turns to shit and you sit there with a lousy feeling basically wanting to hang your self. I got that feeling with VR...

These treads are pretty much driven by greed. The fans' never ending scream for more. What do you want? More pics, more promo, spin offs etc. Fuck that shit.

Let me ask you one thing: Isn't it really fuckin' cool to see Axl doing exactly what he wants, EVEN in these times with the record out and all? To me thats just what makes GN'R superior to all other musical phenomenon.

The record is doing great on a world wide and it'll do a lot better when the tour starts.

Where's the love and respect?

[waxlrick]

As an Axl Poser, as someone so politely pointed out to me, I'll say thank god Axl isn't whoring himself out over this, doing every interview available etc. acting desperate for something he nor us need anyway. It's just not worth it.

Remember what VR did before releasing contraband? They sold themselves like crack junkies on skid row. The first big interview was great and they did sell a few more records I'm sure, but they also created, intentionally or not, a fuckin' mess witch back fired tremendously. Burning bridges like motherfuckers only to end up looking like fools with no where to go.

Now if they did all these interviews because they wanted to and only talked about VR it would be cool, but they didn't. It was really obvious that it was a drag. They didn't do one interview without talking about Axl and GN'R. Must have felt really great for them. I'm not blaming them for being asked those questions, but they could have refused to answer. I'm sure whores find a good fuck enjoyable too sometimes, but not if they really didn't want to fuck in the first place.

Same thing with Axl and GN'R. They're going to be asked the same stupid fuckin' questions over and over, the answers are going to be twisted and they'll end up feeling butt fucked. Unlike i.e. Slash, Axl learned at some point that people in the press can not be trusted so he basically said fuck'em and decided to stick with the original idea of letting the music speak for itself. Now thats real.

I can totally dig an Axl interview, there's actually few things I enjoy more to read, but it's like being fed burgers every fuckin' day. At some point good turns to shit and you sit there with a lousy feeling basically wanting to hang your self. I got that feeling with VR...

These treads are pretty much driven by greed. The fans' never ending scream for more. What do you want? More pics, more promo, spin offs etc. Fuck that shit.

Let me ask you one thing: Isn't it really fuckin' cool to see Axl doing exactly what he wants, EVEN in these times with the record out and all? To me thats just what makes GN'R superior to all other musical phenomenon.

The record is doing great on a world wide and it'll do a lot better when the tour starts.

Where's the love and respect?

You've missed the point badly. We are supporting GNR. We want hem to be the biggest band in the world again. We want this for Axl as much as ourselves.

[D]

once again, u are so stuck on towing the company line, u can't even comprehend what I am saying.

most bands are ready to roll as soon as the album is released with  video,tour, promotion, something

CD was released with some tv commercials and that was it.

If GNR were out there working their asses off and doing what bands do when they have a new album out, I wouldn't care if the album sold 40k copies.  The fact that the album to this point has been handled the way it has, is just really surprising when u factor in how much time they took to get it right.  Why would u then mess up the release of an album u worked so many years to make just right?

I comprehend what you are saying...I just think you're still stuck in a 1990s mind set on how to sell music.  I still have no idea how you could possibly think that Chi Dem had no promotion.  You keep saying..."it needs proper promotion"  Okay, what does that mean?  Examples. 

You give general ideas like...videos (which is a dead music form).  touring...which the band just did.  And it was largely successful.  And "promotion"... nice general term.  I'm still waiting on specifics.

GNR is the first band to release a song through Rock Band.  they had a new song in a movie.  they're music has been featured in major sporting events from WWE, to football, to NASCAR.  They've had TV commercials.  do you realize how expensive TV commercials are?  they've had two singles.  Axl has given a ton of interviews.

So what else is missing?  What else should the band have done?  What's this big comeback plan that Axl should have had in order?

They weren't the first band to do the rock band. Motley Crue released their entire Saints Of Los Angeles CD on Rock band.

They toured in 2006...... The album was released in 2008........... Kind of a stretch there and it isn't like they did a HUGE tour etc. If I'm not mistaken, they played pretty limited US dates right?

Another thing u guys aren't looking at is, GNR are a MAINSTREAM band. U guys are treating them like some garage/indy band or some shit. They aren't. U can buy fucking GNR baby bibs at Spencer's for Christ's sake.

Axl should've had an exclusive RS interview with cover, a video *that medium is dead to those who don't watch, but u go check the hits on Youtube those meaningless videos get*  Artists normally do a press junket *or however u spell it* where they do a round of radio interviews in all the major markets, and they just make people aware that u are back.

Hell Axl did the MTV video awards in 2002, he introduced the Killers in 06 or whenever it was, so let's don't act like, Axl doesn't get out in the public, he did Eddie Trunk in 06.

What I am saying is, I don't understand how u can take so much time making the perfect album u always wanted to make, only to have it released this way with NO promotion.

Best Buy running a few spots doesn't constitute promotion.  GNR should've performed on the American Music Awards the weekend before CD came out.  U know how many album sells that spiked for the artists who did?

I forgot though, Axl COULDN'T cause half his fuckin  band was off doing a bunch of other shit.

[jarmo]

Kind of a stretch there and it isn't like they did a HUGE tour etc. If I'm not mistaken, they played pretty limited US dates right?

During 2006 they played over 30 shows in USA and Canada.

They didn't hit all states obviously.

Another thing u guys aren't looking at is, GNR are a MAINSTREAM band. U guys are treating them like some garage/indy band or some shit. They aren't. U can buy fucking GNR baby bibs at Spencer's for Christ's sake.

The person buying that knows about the new album at Best Buy too?

Why do you keep repeating this?


How well known is AC/DC? Did they promote their latest album?

Hardly an indie band either and yet their promotional campaign got them their biggest success in decades...

How well known in Bruce Springsteen? And why did he play the Superbowl?

Why do you see TV commercials for Coca Cola and McDonald's? Everybody knows that they exist already....

What I am saying is, I don't understand how u can take so much time making the perfect album u always wanted to make, only to have it released this way with NO promotion.

That's been answered by Axl, if you care to find out, go read it.




/jarmo

[younggunner]

That's been answered by Axl, if you care to find out, go read it.

Cant Axl and the band go out and do interviews and a few live appearances? Why would they need the record company for that?

While Axl is not to be fully blamed for how this album has been released and promoted he certainly shares the responsibility. Being that he is the captain of this ship and its his band, name, album, career, etc I expected him to take control of how all of that was going to be presented to the public once he handed over the album. Of course the record company plays a role, especially financially, but I thought and expected the creative side would all be on Axl. And in reality, it should be because this is his entity. That is really the only thing I have been surprised/confused/disappointed with Axl about after all of these years.

If your going move on from the old band then ultimately your the one who is accountable and responsible for how it turns out. No one else. Whether fair or unfair, the general public feels that Axl broke up the old band and is the reason there wont be a reunion. As a result, Axl should not expect anyone to give him the benefit on anything new gnr related. Whether the record company screwed the band or not, people dont want to hear excuses. Axl turned in any public lee-way he may have had after  he continued on without the old band.

Once Axl figures that out...and EXECUTES it, this whole process will be a lot smoother.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Is there an ignore function on this board?

[jarmo]

Cant Axl and the band go out and do interviews and a few live appearances? Why would they need the record company for that?

Once again.

It has been answered.

Some of you keep repeating the same questions and they've been addressed by Axl already.

Either you didn't read the answers, your memory sucks or you just understand it.

What were your expectations in terms of what Best Buy would do to promote the album?

Best Buy has been great. Going with Best Buy was a way to work out a deal with Universal and we were fortunate enough to work with Irving [Azoff, as manager] and deal more directly with Universal. I've asked for information regarding their role in working the record but that hasn't come yet so I'm not able to tell what Universal has or hasn't done, although Zach [Horowitz, Universal Music Group president/COO], or whoever's behind the international efforts, is doing great. It's more than appreciated and a welcome relief.

Unfortunately [going with Best Buy] didn't change us having to rely on Interscope as much as we'd hoped. The opinions expressed or "jumped" on publicly regarding promotion seem to be [about] my or our involvement with mainstream media -- talk shows, rock magazines and dot-coms -- which have generally held negative public stances toward myself or the band for years, [and they] unfortunately have not been resolved. Efforts are being made to understand the relationships and evaluate how best to proceed.

Our focus was in getting the record deal done while finishing the album, which hit many an unexpected bump or sinkhole in the road right up until the actual release. We never intended a huge public rollout, especially without resolving certain issues, and no one ever suggested us doing so, though Interscope's communications with Best Buy in these areas may not have been as clear as anyone would have preferred.

Our approach, for better or worse, has always been to work the record over the course of the following tour cycles, with attempts to forge new or better and hopefully redefined relationships with the different forms of media that may be interested along the way. In regard to our promotion, it was based around certain agreements with Universal, Interscope, our management and legal [teams] that unfortunately never happened. I won't get into specifics but am beginning to address some of those issues in my own way as opposed to "working together," and we'll see how that plays out.

This is the first interview you've done in a long time. Why have you been so reluctant to do press now that the album is out?

Lots of reasons I've gone into elsewhere, but I can say why I'm doing this one. First, because in all this time it's one of the first actually formally presented: I was asked to consider it, I liked the questions and I felt it was a good time to address some of these issues publicly. Also, because it's my understanding that these answers may be "considered" for use with Billboard.com and Reuters [with which Billboard has a syndication deal] and this seemed like a wonderful opportunity to express myself accordingly.

With Reuters, I get their reach. That said, they've been particularly ugly toward me and this band for years, with nearly everything they've written being condescending or negatively judgmental with the cute little press trick of using negative adjectives across the board whenever they've written anything. In our regard they're one of the media outlets that appear to continually attempt to set a tone for a negative mainstream public perception regarding either us or myself, at least in the United States, if not the world.

I get freedom of the press, but I'm not clear in regard to their writers or those who choose to run their spin, why someone who no one's ever heard of with so little "real" information is deemed qualified -- let alone allowed so much corporate backing -- to promote negative and often completely inaccurate and purely opinion-based (at best, if that) shots in forums with so much exposure at the public's and our expense.

Billboard.com has generally taken a pro-Slash and -old Guns position as well, and I don't recall having been particularly negative toward them previously either. In my opinion it seems a bit less professional than tabloid in nature. This is an attempt to begin sorting these things out when more than shots across the bow have been taken by both of these organizations -- but obviously much more so with Reuters -- if not a deliberate public stating of both position and intention, in my opinion.

/jarmo

[younggunner]

Once again.

It has been answered.

Some of you keep repeating the same questions and they've been addressed by Axl already.

Either you didn't read the answers, your memory sucks or you just understand it.

not all of it has been answered

aside from the videos I still dont understand why Axl and the band cant be out there promoting the album. How is the record company needed in that regard?

I guess your going to say Axl answered this by sayingThe opinions expressed or "jumped" on publicly regarding promotion seem to be [about] my or our involvement with mainstream media -- talk shows, rock magazines and dot-coms -- which have generally held negative public stances toward myself or the band for years, [and they] unfortunately have not been resolved. Efforts are being made to understand the relationships and evaluate how best to proceed.


well imo that isnt a sufficient answer for me. I would then ask Axl, had any of that "sorting out" been confronted from 2000-2008? If not, why not? Why wait until after your album is released to sort  that stuff? Couldnt/shouldnt that process have started awhile before the release? Especially since the record company pulled the plug around 2004. He even said that he questioned the role of the record company over the years in regards to the band and album. So if you knew back then that the record company might not have your back why not begin to explore the other ways to possibly promote your album jsut in case your suspicions turned out to be true.

basically why werent those efforts kick started earlier? So that when the album came stuff like that could have already been sorted out...

I totally understand where Axl is coming from in regards to the media. Its been a joke all of these years towards the new band. And if he wants to protest them and not use them in any way thats fine. I could live with that. Sales will suffer becuase of that but if that is the reason why he doesnt want to do promotion then Id be totally cool with that myself. The Djs and journalists have been horrific over the years. But if he wants  to rekindle that releationship or knew it was going to be an issue then why didnt he begin to start that process well before the album coming out?

[jarmo]

aside from the videos I still dont understand why Axl and the band cant be out there promoting the album. How is the record company needed in that regard?

Ironically they're not needed and that's why many artists leave their record companies!   


But since GN'R has a record company (sort of).... The artist delivers the music to the record company and it turns into a product.

Now, it's mostly up to the record company to make money on the product.

That's usually done by having some kind of promotion for it so the public is aware of it.



Why couldn't Axl do everything on his own? That's something the two of you keep asking time after time too.

So you basically think it's a great way to promote an album by having them out there on their own without the backing of the record company?

The same record company who has no plan for the album....





I don't think are as simple as you might want them to be.

For example, even though you might not think people are doing their job properly, they still might get pissed off if you start going over their heads. So you just have to keep dealing with them.



It's pretty obvious that the main focus was to get through all the shit and actually get the album out.

That alone is a feat in itself.



/jarmo

[D]

I can agree with that Jarmo for the most part, but it seems with Axl's status and the mystique factor of being gone so long, he could've arranged a bunch of different things with just a decent publicist.

U think if Axl Rose calls Jay Leno, he wouldn't clear the night to have him on? or the Today Show wouldn't have GNR on to perform or RS or someone wouldn't put him on the cover with a huge feature?

U need the label for sure for videos and money for TV ads and mag ads etc.


The label isn't needed for a press tour of radio and TV though.

[jarmo]

U think if Axl Rose calls Jay Leno, he wouldn't clear the night to have him on?

If that happened, I would hope so. Certainly a more interesting guest than most on that show. 



But you still don't see the thing?

Axl should be out there doing promotion work with no help from the label (who's putting the album out)?

Isn't that kinda weird? Since they do have a label...



Are you really thinking that's a great promotional campaign or are you just saying it because you want to see Axl talk to Jay Leno?




/jarmo