Chinese Democracy (Album) - Charting

[Buddha_Master]

In North America, this album is done. 

You can offer your opinion, and say that, but it means absolutely zilch in the real world.

I'm sure you would have said AFD was done after two months as well.

I'm not saying because AFD took off after a year the same will certainly happen with Chinese Democracy, what I am saying is that no one knows what is possible with an album full of great material like this.  To make any absolute statements like that is absurd.

See what you're saying 6 months from now.

Cheers.

yeah dude, but this isn't 1987 and there certainly are no SCOM or PC on this album

yeah, and there certainly are no B, TWAT, ITW, CITR, SOD, RNTB, S, or P on AFD.

[downzy56]

move beyond the notion that there's still life in this album on a sales/marketing perspective. 

Sorry, don't agree.

They could re-release it with the new artwork to coincide with a tour. Do a video and do some interviews.

Suddenly there's interest in the album again.


If an album is "dead" after two months, why do bands keep promoting them for a year or two by putting out videos, doing interviews and touring?



Oh, and maybe the public "don't care" because they don't listen to rock radio? So they didn't even know there was a single out.



/jarmo

And is that going to happen?  All indications say no, there will be no video game, no video, no tour, no re-issue.  We don't even know who's in the band at this point.  

The appeal of Chinese Democracy for the less than observant public was the questions of why it was taking so long and what would be the end result.  When the first thing they heard was the song Chinese Democracy, most when "meh" and moved along.  I'm not rooting for this, I was hoping for a huge appetite to rise up for all things GNR.  But it didn't happen.  The fact that Better is getting little attention tells me that the public's interest in the new version of GNR isn't what's needed to sustain what you suggest.  

Look at AC/DC.  Huge single that propelled big first week sales and an album that's been lauded as one of their bests in 25 years.  It was found on far more "Best of 2008" lists than Chinese Democracy was and helped launch a massive tour.  Videos, video games, album, hit single and tour all came at the same time.  There was reason and rhyme to the release.  With Chinese Democracy, there was none of that: No smash through single, no video, no public appearances, no video game, no interviews or press via public appearances.  Hell, Axl did more to support the band's 2006 tour than he did for his album.  

So you think that any label, especially one that's fronted millions of dollars already on a losing venture, is going to say, alright, let's try it again.  You don't follow bad money with more money.  I think why we haven't seen a thing from the label at least is an attempt to cut their losses.  

Cheers,

Andrew

[downzy56]

In North America, this album is done. 

You can offer your opinion, and say that, but it means absolutely zilch in the real world.

I'm sure you would have said AFD was done after two months as well.

I'm not saying because AFD took off after a year the same will certainly happen with Chinese Democracy, what I am saying is that no one knows what is possible with an album full of great material like this.  To make any absolute statements like that is absurd.

See what you're saying 6 months from now.

Cheers.

yeah dude, but this isn't 1987 and there certainly are no SCOM or PC on this album

yeah, and there certainly are no B, TWAT, ITW, CITR, SOD, RNTB, S, or P on AFD.

And how many of those are singles?  The reason why songs like November Rain and Estranged were allowed to be singles and had videos accompanied them was because there was an appetite for Guns N' Roses back then.  Now, not so much.  So why spend the money on pushing singles on a band that the public seems to have little hunger for.  Better was the obvious single because of it's structured like a single and sounds like a single.  You can't say that about any other song on this album other than Shackler's Revenge and Chinese Democracy. 

And to use Appetite isn't a fair comparison.  The reason why it took off a year later was because it finally got some publicity and promotion behind it.  It was putting the video for Welcome to the Jungle on at 4 in the morning that brought them a little attention that they fueled into a worldwide phenomenon.  You can't say that Chinese Democracy suffered from a lack of exposure.  It wasn't in your face like people here wanted it to be, but most people were aware of it.  And most people at least heard the first single.  That wasn't the case when GNR first release Appetite.  Chinese Democracy had become almost an urban legend up until it's actual release.  People know who Guns N' Roses are now.  They didn't back in 1987 and it took some time for that to happen. 

Cheers,

Andrew

[adman2374]

move beyond the notion that there's still life in this album on a sales/marketing perspective. 

Sorry, don't agree.

They could re-release it with the new artwork to coincide with a tour. Do a video and do some interviews.

Suddenly there's interest in the album again.


If an album is "dead" after two months, why do bands keep promoting them for a year or two by putting out videos, doing interviews and touring?



Oh, and maybe the public "don't care" because they don't listen to rock radio? So they didn't even know there was a single out.



/jarmo

And is that going to happen?  All indications say no, there will be no video game, no video, no tour, no re-issue.  We don't even know who's in the band at this point.  

The appeal of Chinese Democracy for the less than observant public was the questions of why it was taking so long and what would be the end result.  When the first thing they heard was the song Chinese Democracy, most when "meh" and moved along.  I'm not rooting for this, I was hoping for a huge appetite to rise up for all things GNR.  But it didn't happen.  The fact that Better is getting little attention tells me that the public's interest in the new version of GNR isn't what's needed to sustain what you suggest.  

Look at AC/DC.  Huge single that propelled big first week sales and an album that's been lauded as one of their bests in 25 years.  It was found on far more "Best of 2008" lists than Chinese Democracy was and helped launch a massive tour.  Videos, video games, album, hit single and tour all came at the same time.  There was reason and rhyme to the release.  With Chinese Democracy, there was none of that: No smash through single, no video, no public appearances, no video game, no interviews or press via public appearances.  Hell, Axl did more to support the band's 2006 tour than he did for his album.  

So you think that any label, especially one that's fronted millions of dollars already on a losing venture, is going to say, alright, let's try it again.  You don't follow bad money with more money.  I think why we haven't seen a thing from the label at least is an attempt to cut their losses.  

Cheers,

Andrew

Well said. Some people on this board just mindlessly try to make up arguments, scenarios, maybe's, mulligans....it aint happening.......the album is out and its the best album ever created. it's too bad the general public doesnt get it, but its there loss. some of you here just have to come to realize that fact because some of your comments and arguments are downright laughable...

[D]

I think if I were Axl, and this is just my opinion. I'd take CD on the chin, realize it was great to get that monkey off the back, it ended up turning somewhat of a profit.

I'd now just focus on album 2 and get everything concrete and ready to roll. Release it by August or so.


I just don't hear a single on CD that would turn the world on its ear. The album is great to listen to start to finish and is a great journey, but I don't think one single song really stands out as something that would have cross over mega appeal.

maybe "sorry" 

[jarmo]

And is that going to happen?  All indications say no, there will be no video game, no video, no tour, no re-issue.  We don't even know who's in the band at this point.

Because you're ready to "move on" after two months?

Why is it that you choose to ignore facts?


Q: - when would be the earliest we could hope expect a tour/tour announcement.?

A: When we decide on one! Seriously I don?t know I?m focused more on other areas but we are talking seriously. We have a great relationship with our Euro and other areas promoter as well as the promoters in Austraila and Japan and Irving has lots of ideas we just started tossing around.
 




You say comparing Springsteen to GN'R isn't fair because the albums were released in different months. Yeah, Black Friday is a big shopping day but I guess you missed all the reports saying sales have gone down compared to how it was in previous years. Then you use the weak January month as an excuse why his album didn't sell millions in its first week.

Maybe it's because everybody is suffering?

Oh wait, no not GN'R! A crappy economy has no effect on people who visit Best Buy.

yeah dude, but this isn't 1987 and there certainly are no SCOM or PC on this album

This album has more potential singles.

And no D, that's not a quality issue, just lyrics issue.

I think if I were Axl, and this is just my opinion. I'd take CD on the chin, realize it was great to get that monkey off the back, it ended up turning somewhat of a profit.

I'd now just focus on album 2 and get everything concrete and ready to roll. Release it by August or so.

And then declare that album dead by October!

I just don't hear a single on CD that would turn the world on its ear. The album is great to listen to start to finish and is a great journey, but I don't think one single song really stands out as something that would have cross over mega appeal.

maybe "sorry" 

How many hit singles does it take to break an album?

People know who Guns N' Roses are now.  They didn't back in 1987 and it took some time for that to happen. 

Yes, they know of the band but do they know of the release itself?


If this excuse was valid, no known band would need to promote their albums. Everybody knows about AC/DC, Bruce Springsteen, U2, Metallica and so on.

They're all known names and sold millions of albums. Yet their new albums are promoted like they're totally unknown!


Sure, you probably have a core audience if you've been releasing albums for 10-20 years.

GN'R was away from all that for a while so in some sense, they are like a new band. People who were into them might have to be reminded of GN'R to get them interested again.

That's what promotion can do.





/jarmo

[Gunner80]

In North America, this album is done. 

You can offer your opinion, and say that, but it means absolutely zilch in the real world.

I'm sure you would have said AFD was done after two months as well.

I'm not saying because AFD took off after a year the same will certainly happen with Chinese Democracy, what I am saying is that no one knows what is possible with an album full of great material like this.  To make any absolute statements like that is absurd.

See what you're saying 6 months from now.

Cheers.

yeah dude, but this isn't 1987 and there certainly are no SCOM or PC on this album

Why would we need another SCOM or PC?  we already have those songs ( let's just leave that to Bon Jovi to spew the same toxic shit album after album) - the album is to good for the pop crowd - they like their shit shallow like a puddle.

[loretian]

yeah dude, but this isn't 1987 and there certainly are no SCOM or PC on this album

First of all, only SCOM and Rocket Queen on AFD are anywhere close to the quality of music on Chin Dem 

Secondly though, my primary point is just that people saying "it's over" or "this is that" or "things must be this way!" is just pointless.  Nobody really knows.  So, theorize all you want, but to state 'It's over" is just absurd.  There are plenty examples of albums doing well after they've been out recently, such as Kid Rock, as many people have already pointed out.

If we're gonna discuss the album, why not talk about the things that are worth discussing and the things that we might actually be able to make knowledgeable statements about?

[D]

u can have your opinions as far as quality, that is neither him nor there

WTTJ, SCOM and PC are well crafted, across the board accessible songs by the masses. They are anthems that anybody can get behind.

on CD, the album is just too deep and sophisticated. I can't see regular everyday Joe's being able to embrace them.

There aren't any big ass anthems or cross over ballads IMO on this. I don't hear something and think WOW my friend so and so who isn't a fan would love that or my brother who isn't a fan would love that.

Its an album, u listen to from start to finish and it is all equally good but there isn't that one song that stands out that u can definitively say "THATS A HIT"


Once again, that isn't dissing CD or the songs. there is a difference in radio hits and quality songs. Name any of my fave bands and the radio hits are my least favorite for the most part. but we aren't talking about hardcore or even regular fans.

[Classic Case]

One of my friends didnt know GNR released a new album, so I told him to go get it, and guess what?...he got TSI instead! is he a moron or is just not enough info???

[D]

One of my friends didnt know GNR released a new album, so I told him to go get it, and guess what?...he got TSI instead! is he a moron or is just not enough info???

no offense to you but yeah, that dude is a moron! LOL

[loretian]

Once again, that isn't dissing CD or the songs. there is a difference in radio hits and quality songs. Name any of my fave bands and the radio hits are my least favorite for the most part. but we aren't talking about hardcore or even regular fans.

D, I basically agree with your points, but I still think it's too much to say "what is absolutely" and what isn't.  What is true is that Chinese Democracy is an album full of amazing material.  I don't think there's another rock album that even comes close, even the best Pink Floyd stuff is only 75% there (in my opinion, of course).

Pink Floyd has sold amazing well with almost no easy radio hits.  The Wall had Another Brick in the Wall part 2... Chin Dem has Better, and TIL, and potentially several others.

And, to suggest that anyone can really say what a good radio hit is crazy too.  I'm sure many people on HTGTH would argue against the very concept of November Rain, before it was released, if HTGTH was around back then.  It would have seemed crazy coming from a band that had done AFD and Lies.  But, once again, we found out after the fact...

All the statements in the world made by self-declared objective and knowledgeable people doesn't mean shit.

[jarmo]

WTTJ, SCOM and PC are well crafted, across the board accessible songs by the masses. They are anthems that anybody can get behind.

And how many times did they have to release Welcome To The Jungle until people got it?

I guess they could've decided the album was dead in October 1987 and started working on new songs.  Right? 



/jarmo

[D]

True, U got me there, but I just wonder if there is that Anthem on here and if there is, will axl choose it?


I pray they don't release Street of Dreams or something like that. I think Sorry, TIL or Prostitute have to be it. Hell I think Scraped even has potential. don't know how radio would receive the intro, but after that, that song is THE anthem.

[faldor]

One of my friends didnt know GNR released a new album, so I told him to go get it, and guess what?...he got TSI instead! is he a moron or is just not enough info???

no offense to you but yeah, that dude is a moron! LOL

I wouldn't say he's a moron, I'd say it's lack of info.  If you want to say he's a moron for lacking said info, that's another story.  But the guy probably went to his local record store, which if he's in the US and it's not a Best Buy he would not find Chinese Democracy.  So he probably used the rationale that he was aware of AFD and UYI, TSI wasn't familiar to him so he thought it was new.

[faldor]

True, U got me there, but I just wonder if there is that Anthem on here and if there is, will axl choose it?


I pray they don't release Street of Dreams or something like that. I think Sorry, TIL or Prostitute have to be it. Hell I think Scraped even has potential. don't know how radio would receive the intro, but after that, that song is THE anthem.

Sirius/XM Octane plays "Scraped" with the intro.  They also play Shackler's.  They've played TWAT and Sorry too, though I haven't heard them recently.  And of course they play the 2 singles.

[D]

I always could've heard Shackler's chorus on TRL

remember how that show would fade to commercial? For some reason, I can picture that Chorus on there.

I think the intro kind of bogs it down in some people's eyes.

[ecwfan]

I think claiming "Black Friday" gave Guns n Roses a sales boost is comical at best to beat Bruce Springsteen. Ok 2 things...

1.)  Chinese Democracy was released on a Sunday . A full 5 days before the Black Friday day. By doing this Guns n Roses was in stores a full 5 days before the biggest shopping day of the year.

2.) Does anyone watch the news ? This years Black Friday was the worst in years sales wise due to the economy.


3.)  Its time to admit the truth...I love The Boss and his SuperBowl performance was fucking awesome. But ask many fans of his about the new album and they'll tell you it blows. That there is maybe 3 good songs on it and the rest suck. Its been a very ripped album. Its gotten worse critisism than Chinese Democracy.


                                                        Ok factor this all in...Bruce even sang "Working on a Dream" on Sunday at the SuperBowl , he's been making the rounds media wise ...touring non stop and to move this number is bad for him. His hardcore fanbase didn't like the album. It happens at times.

[crow316]

Was Bruce's album being touted as the most anticipated rock album of all time?

[ecwfan]

Was Bruce's album being touted as the most anticipated rock album of all time?

                              Better question....given the media push Springsteen has been on and Wal-Mart exclusive hits album.... if he can't outsell a rock act that has no real promotional presence (tour/video) in sales...its not good. Even if people waited years....and years for an album like Chinese Democracy and people believed the fucking album would unite Rock ....and cure cancer ....if a guy like Bruce Springsteen can't outsell a band that isn't doing anything and selling at 862 stores in America....well its bad.

                            Most Springsteen fans I have spoken with online don't like the album. One asked why Bruce would rush this out and think its the weakest album in years for him. Its time to admit.... even The Boss can release a clunker.