"We're launching with a monumental campaign"

[TomFriend]

But the "we" in the "we're launching" refers to GNR management.

Not necessarily just management.

They're not the one selling the albums in their stores.

Don't you think it would be weird to have a promotional campaign that had nothing to do with the retailer who sells the albums and who developed the campaign?




/jarmo

What the hell are you talking about? That statement was put out by Azoff. The campaign was done by gnr and bb. i think it would be weird if gnr had no say on how their own album was marketed, especially gnr and we all know they have a lot of say on how their "brand" is expressed/sold to the public. i dont know why you dont think gnr are responsible for anything that doesnt turn out as well as we all hoped it should.....*head scratch*

That's what I wondered. Were we wrong to presume that Irving Azoff, GNR's co-manager, speaks for the band, not for Best Buy? Apparently so.

So it's all Best Buys fault then. We should have assumed as much. 

Let's just remember, everyone. If something good happens in the GNR world, it's down to the band. Anything negative, disappointing, misleading or otherwise is somebody else's fault.

Funny that, because most of the promotion I have seen for the album was from Best Buy's end. I've seen very little from the other people involved.

Besides which, if 'monumental campaigning' is supposed to be squarely on Best Buy's shoulders, explain to me how the fuck the album is supposed to get further promotion anywhere outside the U.S.?

[rabia]

if we can just have a video for Better, it would help matters in the international market. in the US, music videos dont get much traction but in other countries music channels still play videos.

there are huge masses of GNR fans in so many countries and im sure that many dont even know that a new album is out. the video will send that message out loud and clear. US sales are given a lot of attention but international markets are very important for further tours.

[crow316]

Don't you think it would be weird to have a promotional campaign that had nothing to do with the retailer who sells the albums and who developed the campaign?

Not as weird as releasing an album with hardly any promotion at all.

[Giulia]

Well in Italy CD is selling pretty good, this week it was 13,
the last one 15, and acdc and metallica were 47 and 51.

Italians do it better.. 

But there are many teenagers that could be attracted by the gnr world if they'd just stream a video on mtv....

And I wonder why don't they put it out, since the album costed so much they should try to re-enter the budget, a video would really help sales..

[jarmo]

That's what I wondered. Were we wrong to presume that Irving Azoff, GNR's co-manager, speaks for the band, not for Best Buy? Apparently so.

So it's all Best Buys fault then. We should have assumed as much. 

Can't you read? Sorry if that's insulting. I thought I was pretty clear with what I said and it seems like none of you actually understand basic English.

I said, wouldn't it be weird for a campaign that was developed by the retailer not to include the retailer? So you think Best Buy makes up a huge marketing campaign about what they want the record company to do and their whole campaign is basically a cardboard stand, posters and three mentions in the circular?



Everybody's saying "we" meant the management.

I'm saying, it probably means more than that. Including Best Buy. Maybe even Geffen!

Something some of you are happy to disregard in your never ending conquest to put down the band.

Let's just remember, everyone. If something good happens in the GNR world, it's down to the band. Anything negative, disappointing, misleading or otherwise is somebody else's fault.

For you, it seems to the other way around. Big surprise.

Some of you are always quick to post in threads where you can point fingers and attack the band/management.


Read:

With our team we were able to negotiate thru a mountain of issues to be able to release the album. Within' those negotiations I believed I had secured agreements, commitments and assurances that would have allowed a promotional strategy to be implemented that obviously I've had a fair amount of time to consider. Unfortunately those things never happened and once the record was closer to release the biz went about things in their standard business as usual mode.


Read it again.



/jarmo

[crow316]

Everybody's saying "we" meant the management.

Thats because the management said "we".

[jarmo]

Everybody's saying "we" meant the management.

Thats because the management said "we".

So if I say "we" in regards to this board, I cannot in any way mean you as well?


I guess my English is rusty.

I always thought "we" would include the person talking AND others. And unless specified who those others are, it's not always easy to figure out who they are....



The thing you guys are arguing about with me, is basically that I'm saying Best Buy (and probably the record company) were part of the campaign. It wasn't just management who were gonna sell the album in my opinion.

I guess you guys think Best Buy and the record company have actually had monumental campaigns since only management ("we) were the ones who failed to launch one?




/jarmo

[-Rob-]

from the get-go, i expected the record co. & best buy to be the ones out there promoting. i think azoff made this blatantly clear. i can't believe there are 'fans' actually trying to suggest that somehow the mgmt were the ones responsible for dropping the ball on this. that's absolutely insane! it just goes to show the agenda of some 'fans'. instead of focusing on all the positive things the band and mgmt is giving us, we'll just distort the facts and place blame where blame isnt deserved. man, i'd hate to see some of you guys discussing a band that you don't 'claim' to like. 

[doooodickiebr]

Don't you think it would be weird to have a promotional campaign that had nothing to do with the retailer who sells the albums and who developed the campaign?

Not as weird as releasing an album with hardly any promotion at all.

yeah, i must admit that i'm really dissappointed at the lack of promo.  i do realize that w/o axl their hands were kinda tied but i still feel that they left a lot on the table for this release. i personally have never seen an album of this caliber get released with little or no promo - but we're gnr fans and we've come to expect the unexpected.

on the other hand i really don't miss everybody and their grandmother talking about cd.  i'm happy i have a copy and i love every second of it! 

i feel it really hurt sales and hope it doesn't hinder any future releases.

[crow316]

The thing you guys are arguing about with me, is basically that I'm saying Best Buy (and probably the record company) were part of the campaign. It wasn't just management who were gonna sell the album in my opinion.

I guess you guys think Best Buy and the record company have actually had monumental campaigns since only management ("we) were the ones who failed to launch one?

I understand what "we" means.  And I understand that Best Buy is included in that "we".  But the "we" in question does also include GnR Management and the band itself.  And  they have done nothing to qualify as "monumental."   

[jarmo]

I understand what "we" means.  And I understand that Best Buy is included in that "we".  But the "we" in question does also include GnR Management and the band itself.  And  they have done nothing to qualify as "monumental."   

... and did you read the quote from Axl that I posted? Which explains it.

So I don't understand the need for this "discussion" when you got the "why" answered already.


Oh wait, I do understand the need.

 



/jarmo

[crow316]

You might wanna check out the first post again.

The monumental campaign refers to something that came from Best Buy. It was developed by them.




/jarmo

In this post, you inferred that GNR Management had nothing to do with the "monumental campaign" of this topic. Thats how I took it, anyway.  All I was trying to say was that they did, not that Best Buy didnt. I know whats been said by Axl since the ball has been dropped. In no way am I trying to put the band down. I never have and never will.

[jarmo]

You might wanna check out the first post again.

The monumental campaign refers to something that came from Best Buy. It was developed by them.




/jarmo

In this post, you inferred that GNR Management had nothing to do with the "monumental campaign" of this topic. Thats how I took it, anyway.  All I was trying to say was that they did, not that Best Buy didnt. I know whats been said by Axl since the ball has been dropped. In no way am I trying to put the band down. I never have and never will.

Oh, I thought I was clear since I specifically pointed out that it was developed by Best Buy. Therefore they should be part of it.

And that just blaming management seems kinda stupid.



/jarmo

[Dot]

Despite popular belief, I really like CD....However, monumental? and yet worse, campaign?

[damnthehaters]

Whatever you guys say.. blame can be pointed to both Best Buy and GNR Management.  If GNR cuts a deal for Best Buy to be their retailer and promoter, and Best Buy doesn't follow through, its just much GNRs faultl. 

Example... The decisions a business owner or management make reflect the business itself.  If a sports team signs a top prospect to help them win games and it doesn't happen... the blame is on the player and also management for not making a good decision on signing the right player.

And since Axl made the decision to hire the new management... he can take some of the blame as well.     

[TomFriend]

That's what I wondered. Were we wrong to presume that Irving Azoff, GNR's co-manager, speaks for the band, not for Best Buy? Apparently so.

So it's all Best Buys fault then. We should have assumed as much. 

Can't you read? Sorry if that's insulting. I thought I was pretty clear with what I said and it seems like none of you actually understand basic English.

I said, wouldn't it be weird for a campaign that was developed by the retailer not to include the retailer? So you think Best Buy makes up a huge marketing campaign about what they want the record company to do and their whole campaign is basically a cardboard stand, posters and three mentions in the circular?



Everybody's saying "we" meant the management.

I'm saying, it probably means more than that. Including Best Buy. Maybe even Geffen!

Something some of you are happy to disregard in your never ending conquest to put down the band.

Let's just remember, everyone. If something good happens in the GNR world, it's down to the band. Anything negative, disappointing, misleading or otherwise is somebody else's fault.

For you, it seems to the other way around. Big surprise.

Some of you are always quick to post in threads where you can point fingers and attack the band/management.


Read:

With our team we were able to negotiate thru a mountain of issues to be able to release the album. Within' those negotiations I believed I had secured agreements, commitments and assurances that would have allowed a promotional strategy to be implemented that obviously I've had a fair amount of time to consider. Unfortunately those things never happened and once the record was closer to release the biz went about things in their standard business as usual mode.


Read it again.



/jarmo

Jarmo,

I've seen multiple in-store displays, magazine advertisements and web commercials put forth by Best Buy. Now you tell me an area of promotion in which Axl Rose has played an active part.

I find it a hilarious testament to your laughably one-sided view of things that you deride Best-Buy's highly visible attempts at promoting the album, all the while having nothing to say on Axl's utter lack of publicity for his own creation.

Perhaps the Best Buy marketing team didn't expect this to be an entirely one-way street?

No, no. You're right.

Nasty Best Buy marketing people who have published magazine advertisements, and put up in store displays are to blame for poor marketing. Axl Rose, who has not done a single interview, press release or public appearance to promote his own album, is in no way responsible for any disappointment in sales, promotion or public perception.

[jarmo]

I've seen multiple in-store displays, magazine advertisements and web commercials put forth by Best Buy.

And it's monumental?

You think they needed a lot of effort to develop this groundbreaking campaign? "Let's put ads in magazines, on the web and some posters in our stores."


How can you know so much about the Best Buy campaign when you're not even in the country?



When I went to Best Buy stores, they weren't even playing the album.

Maybe Axl should've rushed over with a boombox and a copy of the cd to get it played?


At another store, the Hancock DVDs were displayed better than Chinese Democracy.

Yeah, but like you said, Best Buy are doing great work on promoting the album.

They even mentioned it like three times in their weekly circular!

Now you tell me an area of promotion in which Axl Rose has played an active part.

Well he put the thing out for starters.

GNR are always right.

Yeah.

You got an explanation on it. But, you chose to disregard it as usual.

It's "more fun" to attack the band?

Nasty Best Buy marketing people who have published multiple magazine advertisements, and put up in store displays are to blame for poor marketing.

If you think that's a "monumental campaign", good for you.


Maybe, just maybe, the monumental campaign is what Axl referred to in his answer (which I posted in an earlier reply, try to read it if you have the time in between attacking Axl).

Axl Rose, who has not done a single interview, press release or public appearance to promote his own album, is in no way responsible for any disappointment in sales, promotion or public perception.

He fucking explained why.

Why is it that you can't read it?

Oh wait, it's always GN'R's fault! Axl can not do anything right.


I would also like to point out that he did interviews with his FANS.




People like you are part of the problem.

Everything they do is wrong. The music, the marketing, the management, the touring, the performance of the song, the setlist, the clothes, the things they say etc etc.

It never ends.

 

Thank god we have you, the voice of reason, to set our radars swinging in the right direction. None of us know a goddamn thing. Thank God we have you to tell us the unbiased truth. We love you man, seriously. Don't ever change.

Sarcastic personal insults will get you very far.





/jarmo

[TomFriend]

Categorizing everyone who has anything not-glowingly-positive to say about anything to do with the band will get you much further.

Who promised a monumental campaign? Best Buy or GNR management?

Call me crazy, but I generally expect the people who make promises to be the ones responsible for fulfilling them.

Yeah, yeah, I'm the problem. I who bought 5 copies of the album am the problem. Sure thing Jarmo. You know all.

People like me are part of the probliem! I'm the reason the promotional campaign is a sham! I didn't even know! I'm not a proper fan. Thanks for telling me. I wish I'd known that when I spent over 250 euros taking friends and family to see the guys in 2006.

Oh, Axl explained about the album being released under circumstances that he didn't approve of, and with unapproved artwork? Is that the same thing that you took the piss out of me for suggesting prior to Dexter's visit? Yes, I believe so, All Knowing one. Funny how I was wrong about that too, until Axl said I was right about it.

If Dexter visits again, someone be sure to ask him whether he prefers fans with minds or mindless ass-kissers.

[jarmo]

Categorizing everyone who has anything not-glowingly-positive to say about anything to do with the band will get you much further.

Not everyone, you.

Who promised a monumental campaign? Best Buy or GNR management?

Well, the quote was from management BUT the press release was from management, the record company and Best Buy....

So, is it impossible that "we" did not include Best Buy?


I'm really curious about how you think promotion works.

Best Buy and the record company had nothing to do with it?

Irving and Andy are the ones doing all the work?


With my limited knowledge, I suspect that the marketing would involve the record company and in this case the exclusive retailer.

Call me crazy, but I generally expect the people who make promises to be the ones who fulfill them.

So it was promise.

 

Yeah, yeah, I'm the problem. I who bought 5 copies of the album am the problem. Sure thing Jarmo. You know all.

I'm not a fan. You are Fan Lord and get to decide who is and who isn't a fan of the band.

Hail to the Fan Lord!

You can't see that you're the problem?

First step is to admit your problem. 


So the guy who bought a concert ticket and then throws a bottle at the performer isn't a problem? He/she spent the money too.... That's supporting the artist isn't it? Spending the money...

That's only an analogy.



The thing is, I don't care if you bought five copies. People like you like to put the band, and those that truly support them (not just financially), down.

That's a problem.


And now I guess you'll say the usual defense "but I just want my favorite band to succeed". The truth is, there's nothing constructive about your posts!


People who actually try to be constructive get attacked ("hahaha, why should we request songs, let the band do their own promotion!"). That's not an actual quote, just to show you the general idea of the mentality some fans have.



What good is coming out of your posts? Absolutely nothing.

I'm not a proper fan. Thanks for telling me. I wish I'd known that when I spent over 250 euros taking friends and family to see the guys in 2006.

Where did I say you're not a proper fan?

Sounds like somebody reads what he wants in my posts.

Maybe you're "Mr Superfan" in your own opinion. I couldn't care less.


But when you constantly feel the need to put the band you claim to be a fan of, the word "fan" doesn't really come to mind for me personally.





Euros? So you admit you're not in the USA and have limited knowledge of the Best Buy campaign....

Oh, Axl explained about the album being released under circumstances that he didn't approve of, and with unapproved artwork? Is that the same thing that you took the piss out of me for suggesting prior to Dexter's visit? Yes, I believe so, All Knowing one. Funny how I was wrong about that too, until Axl said I was right about it

As far as I remember, you were busy complaining about the booklet not being proof read and how it's unbelievable Axl would let it out.

He later explained it, so you were basically blaming him again for something that was out of his control....




/jarmo

[TomFriend]

I want my favorite band to succeed.

The bizarre thing is, that they don't seem to want to, at least commercially.

Can you, Jarmo, honestly say you feel Axl (I won't say the band, because of BBF's travels) has put in more promotion than Best Buy? If not, why do you think that's the case so far?